What IS Logical Deism?

[Kiri]

I've seen it mentioned a number of times in threads that usually degenerate into screaming matches through which I'm unwilling to wade.

Can anyone who isn't Franko or one of his clones BRIEFLY explain it to me?

[Checkmite]

Please....just don't.

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Unfortunately, Franko and his sidekick/clone/sockpuppet Wraith appear to be the only two Logical Deists in existence, and neither of them have ever managed to explain what it is coherently.

Based on what Franko has told me over the last 2 years or so, I am inclined to think that it isn't actually anything at all. I think he was just making it all up as he went.

Dr. Stupid

[Tricky]

If you're really interested, or if you are simply masochistic, you can have a look at The List (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=374229&highlight=list#post374229). This is a collection of all of many of the tenets of Logical Deism, as stated by its only proponants. These are as close to being actual verbatum statements as I can get them.

Prepared to be shocked and awed.

[whitefork]

Also please note that Logical Deism is neither. At least, the Logic is none of the generally recognized ones, and as for the Deism, it resembles no forms of Deism with which I'm familiar.

Rather like the Holy Roman Empire.

Stimpson's comment is quite apropos here. Few of us here believe that the proponent of LD actually believes any of the things he claimed to.
Also realize that said proponent withdrew his seal of approval from Tricky's list shortly before he split, which he did after claiming not to have read said list at all.

In short, a mere hiccup in the history of strange doctrines.

[Kiri]

So then, this is something I may safely ignore?

[whitefork]

Depends on how much time you have to spend, I guess. If Franko ever comes back, you'll be able to hear it all again anyway. It gets very repetitive very quickly.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Kiri
So then, this is something I may safely ignore?

Let us all hope so. But if you still have questions, just run a search for posts by Franko, because he repeats himself so much you get a pretty good idea. After all, he is both its founder and the one and only follower.

[evildave]

Originally posted by Kiri
So then, this is something I may safely ignore?

Nay, as Pascal so clearly pointed out, to not believe is so much more dangerous than to believe, therefore you MUST adhere to the tenets of Logical deism, because the consequences for not doing so are so dire.

[Lucifuge Rofocale]

Originally posted by Kiri
Can anyone who isn't Franko or one of his clones BRIEFLY explain it to me?

CRAP

You wanted it brief, don't you?

[whitefork]

Kiri, to summarize the points of LD:

The universe we're in is like (or is really) a computer program. Everything is absolutely determined by the initial state and the laws of physics. There is no randomness (also called magic).
Your behavior is absolutely determined.
There is no free will.
Matter is an illusion: everything that we think exists is a "meme" which is exchanged between or among consciousnesses - consciousness creates matter.
The head consciousness is the Logical Goddess who in some way sustains all the other consciousnesses.
Consciousnesses are actually particles called gravitons. They are quick or slow (good/bad, smart/stupid)

Atheists necessarily believe in free will and magic.

This universe exists inside a heirarchy of universes. Below this one is the Abyss, where bad gravitons go. You ascend to the next universe or descend to the abyss based on Fate.
The gravitons are immortal.

I think that covers most of the main points.

[c4ts]

Tricky thoroughly covers it in the thread "Regarding Franko" but the thread got so long you'll have to wade through a lot of crap to get to it. Did he post it again in "the Wanko Saga" or was that a parody? It's really hard to tell with Logical Deism.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by c4ts
Tricky thoroughly covers it in the thread "Regarding Franko" but the thread got so long you'll have to wade through a lot of crap to get to it. Did he post it again in "the Wanko Saga" or was that a parody? It's really hard to tell with Logical Deism.
Did I? Heck, I can't even remember. Anyway, I don't wish to make the R&P a shrine to the departed Sage. It has been a lot less active lately, but not coincidentally, the amount of interesting, intelligent discussion is at its zenith.

[Kiri]

Well, that all sounds pretty silly.

But it's probably as true as any other religion.

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by whitefork

Atheists necessarily believe in free will and magic.


You mean A-Theists.

But aside from that, I agree with Tricky. Haven't you noticed the high quality discussion taking place in the forum lately?

[Kiri]

Originally posted by evildave


Nay, as Pascal so clearly pointed out, to not believe is so much more dangerous than to believe, therefore you MUST adhere to the tenets of Logical deism, because the consequences for not doing so are so dire.

Okay, so then by this reasoning, I should believe ALL religions, on the chance that ONE of them is "correct".

I think I'll start by dragging victims to the top of a pyramid and cutting out their hearts to feed the sun god.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by whitefork
Kiri, to summarize the points of LD:

Atheists necessarily believe in free will and magic.



Waitaminnit... I believe in free will, but NOT magic, and I'm not an atheist!

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Kiri


Waitaminnit... I believe in free will, but NOT magic, and I'm not an atheist!
Waitaminnit... if you believe in free will, but NOT magic, and not an atheist, you are either:
Lying
Illogical
Insane
Immoral
or all of the above

Silly A-Theist. Don't let what you really believe fool you. You are whatever the logical deists pigeon-hole you as.

[CWL]

Originally posted by Upchurch

Silly A-Theist. Don't let what you really believe fool you. You are whatever the logical deists pigeon-hole you as.
...and besides:

Atoms obey TLOP
You are made of Atoms
You obey TLOP

TLOP controls YOU control CAR

... what's not to understand?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Stimpson J. Cat
Unfortunately, Franko and his sidekick/clone/sockpuppet Wraith appear to be the only two Logical Deists in existence, and neither of them have ever managed to explain what it is coherently.

Based on what Franko has told me over the last 2 years or so, I am inclined to think that it isn't actually anything at all. I think he was just making it all up as he went.

Dr. Stupid

For someone who makes it up as he goes along, he was remarkably consistent in his incoherence. I think he may have started out that way, but his dogmatic attitude, and his appearance on deism.org, indicate that at some point he stopped making it up and started believing it. If Logical Deism was changing each time, the changes were slight because Franko's contradictory positions on free will really looked like the same contradiction each time, and he kept his points of view dogmatically enough to look like doublethink instead of excuses. That takes some amazing acting skills, ones he also did not demonstrate at all in his Wraith character.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Upchurch

Waitaminnit... if you believe in free will, but NOT magic, and not an atheist, you are either:
Lying
Illogical
Insane
Immoral
or all of the above

Silly A-Theist. Don't let what you really believe fool you. You are whatever the logical deists pigeon-hole you as.

Well, since I have a choice, I pick "immoral". :p

[Kiri]

Originally posted by CWL

...and besides:

Atoms obey TLOP
You are made of Atoms
You obey TLOP

TLOP controls YOU control CAR

... what's not to understand?

I'm a unicorn. None of this is applicable.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Kiri


I'm a unicorn. None of this is applicable.
I'm afraid you haven't quite grasped the logic of Logical Deism.

Cars have a horn
Unicorns have a horn
Therefore Unicorns are cars, and thus are controlled by TLOP.

I hope this clears it up for you.

Originally posted by Tricky

I'm afraid you haven't quite grasped the logic of Logical Deism.

Cars have a horn
Unicorns have a horn
Therefore Unicorns are cars, and thus are controlled by TLOP.

I hope this clears it up for you.

This is patently ridiculous. How dare you twist The Syllogism? I'm ocked and shawed.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Estimated Prophet


This is patently ridiculous. How dare you twist The Syllogism? I'm ocked and shawed.
Don't mind Tricky. He's just a figment of my imagination.

However, I'm a figment of CWL's imagination, so don't mind me either.

[CWL]

Originally posted by Upchurch

Don't mind Tricky. He's just a figment of my imagination.

However, I'm a figment of CWL's imagination, so don't mind me either.

Correct - and I'm a figment of Upchurch's imagination, so there you are.

[Tricky]

And I'm just a Fig mint.

[CWL]

In France they have a brand of mints called Mental. Perhaps that has some connection to the Sage of Baltimore as well?

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Tricky

I'm afraid you haven't quite grasped the logic of Logical Deism.

Cars have a horn
Unicorns have a horn
Therefore Unicorns are cars, and thus are controlled by TLOP.

I hope this clears it up for you.

(Kiri proceeds to violate TLOP by bending them over a fallen log and... well, you get the idea.) :D

Sometimes being mythical is a distinct advantage, though it does make it difficult to obtain credit.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by CWL


Correct - and I'm a figment of Upchurch's imagination, so there you are.

Small world- I'm a figment of my own imagination!

[Kiri]

Originally posted by CWL
In France they have a brand of mints called Mental. Perhaps that has some connection to the Sage of Baltimore as well?


I use mint-flavored mental floss.

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Kiri


(Kiri proceeds to violate TLOP by bending them over a fallen log and... well, you get the idea.) :D
Gosh, I hope you have never been arrested for a traffic violation.:D

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Tricky

Gosh, I hope you have never been arrested for a traffic violation.:D

Well, I once tried to blow up a bus, but I burned my lips on the exhaust pipe.

[c4ts]

I once tried to blow up a bus, but the original proved to be too big to fit in the darkroom.

[Jethro]

I once tried to blow up a bus but TLOP made me drive it instead.

[Kiri]

Those are BOTH better than my old punchline! Thanks!