eczema and homeopathy?

[Suezoled]

http://www.eczema.org/factsheets/Homeopathy.pdf


"but GP's are much more favourable to homeopathy than many imagine: a survey showed 80% trust homeopathy, and 37% sometimes use it in their own surgeries..."

I dunno about you, but I don't know many doctors who do surgery to treat eczema.

"Homeopathic remedies do sometimes cause a reaction, making matters worse before they get better. This is called aggravation... [but] homeopaths reduced the size of their doses, using a process called 'potentisation'..."

wow... the things you learn. Sadly, I pulled this off the http://www.eczema.org/ website.
There are warnings from the web site concerning "alternative therapies"

Though many people have found the use of complementary therapies helpful, there has only been limited scientific evaluation of complementary treatments and so it is important to consider the following:

It is essential to let your doctor know if you are starting another course of treatment, since interactions can occur between certain medications. Conventional treatments should not be stopped suddenly, without consulting your doctor.

Ensure that the practitioner is properly qualified and registered with the appropriate regulatory body.

Remember that a treatment which is described as natural or herbal is not guaranteed to be safe.

What works for one person will often not work for another.



Although a "properly qualified and registered" practitioner isn't saying much if the profession bears no real organization or regulation.

[Terry]

Originally posted by Suezoled
http://www.eczema.org/factsheets/Homeopathy.pdf


"but GP's are much more favourable to homeopathy than many imagine: a survey showed 80% trust homeopathy, and 37% sometimes use it in their own surgeries..."

I dunno about you, but I don't know many doctors who do surgery to treat eczema.


If this is a British web site, be aware that the British usage "doctor's surgery" is roughly equivalent to "doctor's office" in American usage.

Just FYI.

--Terry.

[edthedoc]

and 80% trusting homeopathy is complete nonsense. There's a very good UK-based doctors' internet forum called DoctorsNet and on this site is a forum for complementary health where homeopathy is often discussed, but I can count on the fingers of one hand how many doctors post messages there supporting homeopathy. The vast majority of (UK) doctors know perfectly well homeopathy is nonsense.

It's quite possible that 80% of doctors might tell their patients to try homeopathy just to get the sods out of the clinic room ;)

[Mojo]

From the quotation posted by Suezoled
It is essential to let your doctor know if you are starting another course of treatment, since interactions can occur between certain medications.I wouldn't worry too much about interactions of homeopathic remedies with other medications (or with anything else, for that matter). :D

[Mojo]

Originally posted by edthedoc
It's quite possible that 80% of doctors might tell their patients to try homeopathy just to get the sods out of the clinic room ;) It appears that some doctors use homeopathic remedies as a placebo. From the Sixth Report (http://www.parliament.the-stationery-office.co.uk/pa/ld199900/ldselect/ldsctech/123/12301.htm) of the UK House of Lords Science & Technology Select Committee, chapter 4:On the other hand, as evidence from the Academy of Medical Sciences suggests, the only reason for using therapies such as homeopathy is as a vehicle for the placebo effect to work safely (see paras 3.19 - 3.34). Professor Peter Lachmann told us: "Other effects of homeopathy apropos the placebo effect have already been mentioned and I personally am entirely happy with the idea that homeopathy is a good way of administering a placebo because it is free from harm.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Terry
If this is a British web site, be aware that the British usage "doctor's surgery" is roughly equivalent to "doctor's office" in American usage.

Just FYI.

--Terry.

Ah. I did see it was UK, but wasn't aware that the American reference is different than the British.

[Anders W. Bonde]

Knowingly prescribing homeopathic magick as placebo by intelligent, real doctors creates some serious ethical problems, IMHO: For one thing, it cannot be done to those of us that know what bunkum homeopathy is, and it is all too easily picked up by the sCAMmers as an endorsement of thier quackery.

I do find it ethically acceptable to prescribe placebos, but they should 'mimic' real medication in form and name and in no way be connected in nomenclature with the homeopathetic male bovine feces. Every doctor should be able to give their patients a folder that tells the bare facts about the homeopathic bunkum, so they don't have to engage in a futile battle of words with credulous patients. I'm sure there are many members of this forum who wouldn't mind writing up the contents of such an informative folder!

[jambo372]

I had eczema for years. I went to the doctors several times and he just kept giving me steroid creams and diprobase, it didn't work and sometimes I thought it actually made it flare up.

I went to an alternative shop and got cream ( it wasn't homeopathic , it was a herbal concoction ). Within a a month or so of using the herbal cream and drinking aloe-vera the eczema disappeared completely and never came back.

[Anders W. Bonde]

Anecdote.
Non-blinded trial.
n=1

Jambo, can you provide some actual evidence for your claim? I'm sure there are a lot of people with eczema who could profit form that herbal remedy if it was well tried and tested and proven to work.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Anders W. Bonde
Anecdote.
Non-blinded trial.
n=1

Jambo, can you provide some actual evidence for your claim? I'm sure there are a lot of people with eczema who could profit form that herbal remedy if it was well tried and tested and proven to work.

It was very expensive but it worked wonders. It was someone else who recommended it to me ( who had previously had very bad eczema that didn't respond to anything else ). It was called ARU cream.

[apoger]

...but it worked wonders


Usually when something "works wonders" word gets out pretty fast. Trials are held. Effects are measured. Success is duplicated. Someone gets rich, and the rest of us get a wonder product to cure our ill.

Has word gotten out?
Has someone gotten rich?
Has eczema been "cured"?


No?


Why?

[jambo372]

Originally posted by apoger
Usually when something "works wonders" word gets out pretty fast. Trials are held. Effects are measured. Success is duplicated. Someone gets rich, and the rest of us get a wonder product to cure our ill.

Has word gotten out?
Has someone gotten rich?
Has eczema been "cured"?


No?


Why?

I don't know if trials were held. It may work for some people but not others, jus because something works in one case doesn't mean it will in another. eg Steroids were completely useless in my case and several others I've heard of but I dare say they helped in others.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by jambo372
...drinking aloe-vera...That sounds like a much better thing to be drinking. ;)

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Mojo
That sounds like a much better thing to be drinking. ;)

Aloe Vera juice tastes and looks like our favourite beverage.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by jambo372
Aloe Vera juice tastes and looks like our favourite beverage. Do you mean your favourite beverage or my (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer) favourite beverage?

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by jambo372
I went to an alternative shop and got cream ( it wasn't homeopathic , it was a herbal concoction ). Within a a month or so of using the herbal cream and drinking aloe-vera the eczema disappeared completely and never came back. Jambo, you have no idea what was in that cream.

There are well-documented cases of so-called herbal eczema creams which when analysed turned out to be very strong prescription-only steroid cream which had fallen off the back of a lorry. I know of one case where several mothers attending an eczema clinic all started using one of these preparations on their children, from a local Chinese herbalist. The effects were so dramatic that the dermatologist at the clinic investigated - apparently at first he really hoped it was a genuinely effective new treatment. However, it turned out to be very powerful steroid ointment which should no way have been given to such young children because of the long term side-effects. Prosecutions ensued.

Even if the steroids you were prescribed seemed not to help, it's more likely that a different steroid preparation, perhaps an alarmingly strong one, made the difference, than some unidentified herb.

You really should be more careful. (Or maybe not. Another incident involves an amazingly effective Chinese herbal remedy for impotence which turned out to be about 95% Viagra....)

Rolfe.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Mojo
Do you mean your favourite beverage or my (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beer) favourite beverage?

Yes ... my favourite beverage. It's not really. I don't like beer ( I'd rather drink urine ). I prefer spirits.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Jambo, you have no idea what was in that cream.

There are well-documented cases of so-called herbal eczema creams which when analysed turned out to be very strong prescription-only steroid cream which had fallen off the back of a lorry. I know of one case where several mothers attending an eczema clinic all started using one of these preparations on their children, from a local Chinese herbalist. The effects were so dramatic that the dermatologist at the clinic investigated - apparently at first he really hoped it was a genuinely effective new treatment. However, it turned out to be very powerful steroid ointment which should no way have been given to such young children because of the long term side-effects. Prosecutions ensued.

Even if the steroids you were prescribed seemed not to help, it's more likely that a different steroid preparation, perhaps an alarmingly strong one, made the difference, than some unidentified herb.

You really should be more careful. (Or maybe not. Another incident involves an amazingly effective Chinese herbal remedy for impotence which turned out to be about 95% Viagra....)

Rolfe.

It was commercially made. Nothing the doctor gave me worked .

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by jambo372
It was commercially made.That's exactly what I was suggesting.... :D

Rolfe.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by jambo372
It was very expensive but it worked wonders. It was someone else who recommended it to me ( who had previously had very bad eczema that didn't respond to anything else ). It was called ARU cream. OK - so you bought expensive moisturiser. The only "active" ingredient in ARU cream is Borage oil. Who came up with the aloe vera recommendation and do you have a particular brand. I'm willing to try your "regime" for a month or so. I'll even make a photo diary - starting now with no treatment, except for Boot's moisturiser.

[Terry]

Originally posted by EHocking
I'm willing to try your "regime" for a month or so. I'll even make a photo diary - starting now with no treatment, except for Boot's moisturiser.

Is that a challenge to a "my eczema is more gross-looking than yours" contest? :p

--Terry.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by jambo372
I had eczema for years. I went to the doctors several times and he just kept giving me steroid creams and diprobase, it didn't work and sometimes I thought it actually made it flare up.

I went to an alternative shop and got cream ( it wasn't homeopathic , it was a herbal concoction ). Within a a month or so of using the herbal cream and drinking aloe-vera the eczema disappeared completely and never came back.

So all this time I've been using mild soaps, expensive but safe moisturizers, corticosteroids and pimecroliemous (I prolly just totally butchered the second medications... it's commercially called Protopic), Claritan, and Bactroban for open wounds and all this time Jambo had the secret to curing a condition that all those other web sites said there wasn't a cure! Those liars! Thos filthy conspiracists who are just after my last dime after all!

[Deetee]

Jambo - you sure it was "ARU" and you are not confusing it with "IRNBRU"?


PS - Why are you a jambo if youre from N Lanarkshire - shouldn't you support St Johnstone or something?

[jambo372]

It certainly worked for me, in combination with aloe vera as juice and topical gel. I had several potions and lotions from the doctor ... diprobase, dermovate, trimovate, cutivate, dermacort, E45, calamine lotion, none worked. I had also tried evening primrose oil capsules and was on Loratadine for hay fever.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by Terry
Is that a challenge to a "my eczema is more gross-looking than yours" contest? :p

--Terry. That may well depend on where the eczema (contact dermatitis, to my friends) is.

Cue - "EEEUuuuuwwwwww......" response

[EHocking]

Originally posted by jambo372
It certainly worked for me, in combination with aloe vera as juice and topical gel. I had several potions and lotions from the doctor ... diprobase, dermovate, trimovate, cutivate, dermacort, E45, calamine lotion, none worked. I had also tried evening primrose oil capsules and was on Loratadine for hay fever. As have I and at least one other poster here.

But you did not answer the question. Upon *who's* advice did you come up your magical cure? Did you eschew the informed medical advice of a trained practioner for a pharmacist? Or was it on advice from your local CAM shop?

Only this week we had a rip-off mercan..... er a herbal remedy boutique open on our High Street. Perhaps I'll go along and ask for a remedy...

But again - who came up with the aloe vera drink combined with the borage oil hand cream idea?

[jambo372]

It was a friend's neighbour who recommended ARU cream and said where to buy it from. A relative read about aloe-vera in a magazine.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by jambo372
It certainly worked for me.... 'Sfunny, you know. This is exactly how nearly all dowsers I have corresponded with end up explaining that "phenomenon" as well.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by jambo372
It was a friend's neighbour who recommended ARU cream and said where to buy it from. A relative read about aloe-vera in a magazine. Oh well, then, with that level of medical expertise behind your treatment suggestion how could I question it?

ETA. My wife's mother claims that if I leave a damp tea towel on my shoulder while helping with the washing up, it would cause arthritis.

So I bought and automatic dishwasher.

Can anyone else see another expensive solution to a non-problem in this scenario?

[Anders]

Eczema has a tendency to diminish over time, and eventually totally go away. Perhaps what happened to jambo.

And now for a cute little anecdote:

I myself suffered from mild eczema for a while in my late teens. 5 years later I had no problem what so ever, and the only lotion I used was non-prescription hydrocortisone 1%, a perfectly natural steroid and it worked wonders!

Had I tried any homeopathic or vegetable stuff, I had probably gone mad of the pain…

[edthedoc]

While we're on the subject of steroid creams:

Pay attention to the substance the steroid is in: there are two basic types, creams (white, lots of additives) and ointments (clear, vaseline-based, fewer additives).

Ointments are far better at stopping the skin from drying out (a major problem with eczema) and have fewer addtives that sometimes exacerbate eczema. They're not so cosmetically acceptable (more difficult to apply make-up) but they're often much better at treating eczema.

So ask for steroid ointment, not steroid cream!

Here ends the lesson!


;)

[Terry]

Originally posted by edthedoc
[...]
So ask for steroid ointment, not steroid cream!


<anecdotal_confirmatory_experience> What he said! </anecdotal_confirmatory_experience>

--Terry.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by Terry
Is that a challenge to a "my eczema is more gross-looking than yours" contest? :p
--Terry. Funny thing happened along these lines.

For the past week I have been scanning the hand that is most affected and have also been noting when and what moisturising cream I've been using.

Can anyone think of a "protocol" that we could use to test homeopathetic "cures" vs medical "cures" for my eczema?

At the moment, I'm working on the control. That is, two+ weeks of my regular routine.

My thought was to consult a "High St" pharmacist for a recommended treatment and pursue that for the recommended time and then consult the local health shop that has just opened and pursue their treatment as recommended.

I'm quite open to following this up with a consultation with both a GP (with a follow up with a specialist) and then a homeopath. I'm only willing to consult a homeopath that does not charge, only fair if I don't have to pay for the GP or specialist. Any suggestions for one in East London?

Anyone out there willing to outline a protocol for such a trial?
I'll be on holiday so won't be able to reply for a week, but if anyone is interested, I'm willing to be a guinea pig and put together a blog to track the various progress.

[Gavinimurthy]

Why are more childern in western countries suffering, (almost one in 10), with eczema, compared to childern in the so called undeveloped contries?

Has it something to do with the indiscriminate use of 'modern medicine' during pregnency?


Murthy

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Gavinimurthy
Why are more childern in western countries suffering, (almost one in 10), with eczema, compared to childern in the so called undeveloped contries?

Has it something to do with the indiscriminate use of 'modern medicine' during pregnency?Probably not. Particularly since "modern medicine" is not "indiscriminately" used during pregnancy. Murthy, have you no idea how strictly pregnant women are warned to take no alcohol, tobacco or over-the-counter drugs, and how very sparingly and carefully even necessary drugs are prescribed? It is common for women with chronic complaints to come off their medication and suffer their illness for 9 months in order not to take any risks with their baby.

There are very much more reasonable explanations for the increasing incidence of eczema, but since they have nothing to do with rubbishing effective medicine, you probably wouldn't even listen.

Rolfe.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Gavinimurthy
Why are more childern in western countries suffering, (almost one in 10), with eczema, compared to childern in the so called undeveloped contries?

Has it something to do with the indiscriminate use of 'modern medicine' during pregnency?


Murthy

Sources?

[Gavinimurthy]

Atopic eczema affects approximately 10-20% of infants and children in Western countries and approximately 2-3% of adults. The majority of children, therefore, "grow out of" eczema before they reach adulthood. Statistics suggest that 60% of children with eczema are also likely to have asthma. The prevalence of atopic asthma has been increasing in children over the past 30 years and is more common in urban compared with rural areas. The reason for this is not fully understood, but may relate to indoor climates promoting allergens, changes in diet or reductions in breast feeding.


http://www.health.net.nz/healthguide/article.asp?id=14

Just one source.There are many...

Murthy

[Donks]

Originally posted by Gavinimurthy
The reason for this is not fully understood, but may relate to indoor climates promoting allergens, changes in diet or reductions in breast feeding.
How does this relate to:
Has it something to do with the indiscriminate use of 'modern medicine' during pregnency?
If you're going to put references, at least try to get some that actually support your position.

[Gavinimurthy]

I can have my 'own' doubts and seek clarifications irrespective of what the references say.

Murthy

[Donks]

Originally posted by Gavinimurthy
I can have my 'own' doubts and seek clarifications irrespective of what the references say.

Murthy
You're right, you're free to wildly speculate about any topic you want. But don't pretend to have references that back up your position when you don't. It's intellectually dishonest.

[The Don]

Why are more childern in western countries suffering, (almost one in 10), with eczema, compared to childern in the so called undeveloped contries?

I'd have to say that it's the increase in the use of complimentary remedies which has caused it on the grounds that the rise in eczema has mirrored the rise in the use of homoeopathic treatments

[Barbrae]

Originally posted by Rolfe
It is common for women with chronic complaints to come off their medication and suffer their illness for 9 months in order not to take any risks with their baby.



Very true, I can attest to that.

Murthy, homeopaths have believed and commented on the connection between eczema and asthma since Hahnemanns time. However, the connection was not about a pregnant womans use of medications but rather the use of suppressives in the eczema at an early age - driving the "disease" deeper until asthma develops. This would coincide with higher incidences in urban areas than rural areas as well.

There is currently a large scale study being held at a teaching hospital close to me but the hypothesis is that asthma develops when eczema is untreated. The results of the study will be interesting when they come out.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Barbrae
Very true, I can attest to that.Ah, but why were you on the nasty allopathic meds in the first place?

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Barbrae
Very true, I can attest to that.

Murthy, homeopaths have believed and commented on the connection between eczema and asthma since Hahnemanns time. However, the connection was not about a pregnant womans use of medications but rather the use of suppressives in the eczema at an early age - driving the "disease" deeper until asthma develops. This would coincide with higher incidences in urban areas than rural areas as well.

There is currently a large scale study being held at a teaching hospital close to me but the hypothesis is that asthma develops when eczema is untreated. The results of the study will be interesting when they come out.

And what teaching hospital is that?


Once again, Barbrae is proudly displaying her rampant lack of understanding by suggesting that there might be a correlation/causation between pregnancy, "allopathy," eczema and asthma. Homeopaths believe a lot of things, such as they know what they're doing, what they're talking about, and what they're doing is actually legimate and good.

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Originally posted by Gavinimurthy
Why are more childern in western countries suffering, (almost one in 10), with eczema, compared to childern in the so called undeveloped contries?...

As opposed to the rashes these children are getting... and dying from?... http://www.keralanext.com/news/indexread.asp?id=177616

[Barbrae]

Originally posted by Mojo
Ah, but why were you on the nasty allopathic meds in the first place?

Now Mojo - you know very well that I do not carry that attitude towards allopathic treatments (regarding your "nasty" comment) so please don't do that - cause I don't. You also know why I am on allopathic meds - advil - for my headaches.

[Barbrae]

Originally posted by Suezoled
And what teaching hospital is that?


Once again, Barbrae is proudly displaying her rampant lack of understanding by suggesting that there might be a correlation/causation between pregnancy, "allopathy," eczema and asthma. Homeopaths believe a lot of things, such as they know what they're doing, what they're talking about, and what they're doing is actually legimate and good.

Once again suezoled is proudly displaying her rampant lack of reading or understanding ability - no mention was made by me regarding any correlation of pregnancy at all.

ALso, I guess all those silly MD's and folks involved in the study I mentioned are displaying their lack of understanding by suggestion a correlation between allopathy, eczema and asthma, too?

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Barbrae
Once again suezoled is proudly displaying her rampant lack of reading or understanding ability - no mention was made by me regarding any correlation of pregnancy at all.

ALso, I guess all those silly MD's and folks involved in the study I mentioned are displaying their lack of understanding by suggestion a correlation between allopathy, eczema and asthma, too?

And what study is that, Barbrae? You're quick enough to try to insult, but you're slow to provide back up for your factual statements.

As for the rest...
Originally posted by Rolfe
It is common for women with chronic complaints to come off their medication and suffer their illness for 9 months in order not to take any risks with their baby.

Says Babrae:

Very true, I can attest to that.

Murthy, homeopaths have believed and commented on the connection between eczema and asthma since Hahnemanns time. However, the connection was not about a pregnant womans use of medications but rather the use of suppressives in the eczema at an early age - driving the "disease" deeper until asthma develops. This would coincide with higher incidences in urban areas than rural areas as well.

There is currently a large scale study being held at a teaching hospital close to me but the hypothesis is that asthma develops when eczema is untreated. The results of the study will be interesting when they come out.

You're nitpicking again Barbrae. You're taking the agitation from a tiny bit of the issue and getting symptoms...

It wasn't YOUR pregnancy I was speaking of. If was your easy comment of "very true there are women who don't take 'allopathy' when they're pregnant" that implied the allowable correlation.
Was I wrong that you weren't correlating? Well, sorry for that then.
On the other hand, I find it rather laughable that your implications are merely that homeopaths have had a concern about eczema and asthma, when in truth the homeopaths haven't even found a decent way to handle, oh, a hangnail, etc. Homeopathy has been around longer than modern medicine. Surely if it were so effective, this treatable condition would have been on the ropes long ago by proponents of homeopathy.

So you're either leaving it to MD's, etc to do a serious study, or you're not mentioning others who are involved, in which an omission would still not impact a serious review of that study if/when it's presented for peer review.

[Barbrae]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suezoled
And what study is that, Barbrae? You're quick enough to try to insult, but you're slow to provide back up for your factual statements. Quick enough to insult?? Ha, that's rich coming from you. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-11/cmh-ste111803.php Happy now? Did you really think I just made it up? Wouldn't that be odd considering I clearly stated that the purpose of the study was basically to determine if treatment of ezcema stopped asthma - the opposite of what homeopaths think.

As for the rest...


Says Babrae:


You're nitpicking again Barbrae. You're taking the agitation from a tiny bit of the issue and getting symptoms...

It wasn't YOUR pregnancy I was speaking of. If was your easy comment of "very true there are women who don't take 'allopathy' when they're pregnant" that implied the allowable correlation.
Was I wrong that you weren't correlating? Well, sorry for that then.

I don't even know what you are getting at. Murth said that the link to asthma and eczema could be the indiscriminate use of drugs during pregnancy, Rolfe said there isn't really indiscriminate use of drugs during pregnancy - I WAS AGREEING WITH HER. I was saying there is no correlation between pregnancy and the eczema asthma link.

Homeopaths have long held the belief that eczema being suppressed is the cause of later asthma - homeopaths have long seen a correlation between eczema and asthma. You can go ahead and look up references to this in Hahnemanns works if you wish.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Barbrae
Now Mojo - you know very well that I do not carry that attitude towards allopathic treatments (regarding your "nasty" comment) so please don't do that - cause I don't. You also know why I am on allopathic meds - advil - for my headaches. OK, sorry about the use of the word "nasty." But the point I was trying to make is that you have not been able to adequately treat your headaches with homeopathy.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Barbrae
Very true, I can attest to that.

Murthy, homeopaths have believed and commented on the connection between eczema and asthma since Hahnemanns time. However, the connection was not about a pregnant womans use of medications but rather the use of suppressives in the eczema at an early age - driving the "disease" deeper until asthma develops. This would coincide with higher incidences in urban areas than rural areas as well.

There is currently a large scale study being held at a teaching hospital close to me but the hypothesis is that asthma develops when eczema is untreated. The results of the study will be interesting when they come out.

That there might be connections between eczema and asthma is a perfectly reasonable hypothesis. Our understanding of immunoregulation would give us plenty of reason to suggest that if a patient is prone to one they might be prone to the other.

This is one of those "germ of truth" things that the alt med community plays with and wildly misinterprets.

That there are people who are itchy and wheezy, or indeed, itchy then wheezy is a verifiable clinical hypothesis and quite possibly true, but it has absolutely nothing to do with homeopathy and all its driving in, driving out, shaking it all about nonsense.

Where homeopathy fails, as it always does, is in providing a valid explanatory framework and demonstrating that it can influence the course of events. Thus, as another example, invoking the homeopathic word "aggravation" to describe a patient showing worse symptoms after taking a remedy is doing nothing more profound than your Granny did when she said, "It'll get worse before it gets better, you mark my words". She was often right, becasue that's how diseases behave of their own accord. Correctly telling a person on day 1 of the 'flu that they'll feel worse the next day is no proof of the efficacy of the homeopathic remedy you gave them.

[Suezoled]

Originally posted by Barbrae
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Suezoled
And what study is that, Barbrae? You're quick enough to try to insult, but you're slow to provide back up for your factual statements. Quick enough to insult?? Ha, that's rich coming from you. http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2003-11/cmh-ste111803.php Happy now? Did you really think I just made it up? Wouldn't that be odd considering I clearly stated that the purpose of the study was basically to determine if treatment of ezcema stopped asthma - the opposite of what homeopaths think.

As for the rest...


Says Babrae:


You're nitpicking again Barbrae. You're taking the agitation from a tiny bit of the issue and getting symptoms...

It wasn't YOUR pregnancy I was speaking of. If was your easy comment of "very true there are women who don't take 'allopathy' when they're pregnant" that implied the allowable correlation.
Was I wrong that you weren't correlating? Well, sorry for that then.

I don't even know what you are getting at. Murth said that the link to asthma and eczema could be the indiscriminate use of drugs during pregnancy, Rolfe said there isn't really indiscriminate use of drugs during pregnancy - I WAS AGREEING WITH HER. I was saying there is no correlation between pregnancy and the eczema asthma link.

Homeopaths have long held the belief that eczema being suppressed is the cause of later asthma - homeopaths have long seen a correlation between eczema and asthma. You can go ahead and look up references to this in Hahnemanns works if you wish.
Right. And did you miss where I said:
Was I wrong that you weren't correlating? Well, sorry for that then
Neverdmind then.

No, I don't think you made it up. It is, however, once again noted that it took some prodding for you to list your source.

Homeopaths can see a correlation between anything they like. The homeopaths haven't been able to prove a dang thing. In fact, once again, they're leaving it to mainstream medicine to do such studies. I can barely wonder what the homeopathic community will do in terms of restructuring the results of any study to suit their own purposes.

[jambo372]

I never found out what caused my eczema.

[Barbrae]

Originally posted by Mojo
But the point I was trying to make is that you have not been able to adequately treat your headaches with homeopathy.


Sadly, nor with allopathy.

:(

[Barbrae]

Originally posted by Suezoled
It is, however, once again noted that it took some prodding for you to list your source.

Well, my dear, the reason for that is simply that I had mentioned it was a hospital near me - and quite frankly I didn't feel the need to advertise where I am. Same reason I didn't feel the need to post the name and location of my GI doc when you said I lied about having UC.

[EHocking]

Originally posted by Terry
Is that a challenge to a "my eczema is more gross-looking than yours" contest? :p

--Terry. I just thought I'd follow up on this. I'm working on some animated gifs, just for you Terry.

Since the start of this thread I've been scanning my eczema daily and noting what creams I've been using and how frequently.

After 3 weeks of using just the usual moisturisers, but noting the frequency and giving them a chance to do their thing, by a happy coincidence (for this discussion) I had need to visit my local GP and while I was there asked about my eczema.

Oddly, my GP must be one of the 20% in the UK that does NOT prefer homeo or naturopathetic medicine and prescribed a 0.1% Memetasone Furoate concoction called Elocon.

The GP estimated it would take 7-10 days to work.

Just for the hell of it, I then visited the new "health" shop on our High St. I've had the complaint for 10 years, so a couple of more weeks was not going to be a big deal. Upshot of the discussion was that the health chain's brand Marigold cream was what would cure my ills. And yes, I gave the fullest medical background to my eczema as I did for the GP.

The store owner stated categorically that this cream would work within 3-4 days (although I should compliment the cream with fish oil to "lubricate the cells from the inside").

It has now been 6 days on the Marigold "stuff" and I can see no visible improvement - and now it's starting to itch. So I'm now on to the "nasty allopathic" ointment.

While I fully accept that this single trial proves nothing (in fact it has not proved anything yet, 'cos I've only just started the last treatment), at least it slightly less anecdotal than the other instance cited here.