Quote of the day.. Without doing a Google tell me

[Pahansiri]

Who said the following.


"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."


NO cheating!! A candy bar for the winner, I have spoken to RandFan ( well not "Officially� spoken to him) and he will send the winner a nice candy bar:D

[Marquis de Carabas]

dubya? ...or a speechwriter, perhaps. Some of those words are polysyllabic.

[Lisa Simpson]

Papa Bush?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
dubya? ...or a speechwriter, perhaps. Some of those words are polysyllabic.

Good guess but no. No candy for YOU:p

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
Papa Bush?

Very Good guess but no. No candy for YOU:p

[Marquis de Carabas]

[google google google] Ahhh...

[Lisa Simpson]

I'm too lazy to Google. Will someone PM me with the answer?

[SezMe]

Scalia?

Rehnquist (sp?)?

How 'bout a hint? A national level figure or one from NY? USA or Europe or elsewhere?

[wahrheit]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
. . . We need believing people."
Hitler.

[Palimpsest]

I'm going to say Hitler too.

[Gestahl]

It's Hitler. I've seen that quote too many times.

[Cleon]

Hitler. Seen it before.

[Pahansiri]

we have a Bingo.....

"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."{Adolf Hitler. April 26, 1933, from a speech made during negotiations leading to the Nazi-Vatican Concordat of 1933.}

See RandFan for your candy bar.... Tell him LG sent you

[wahrheit]

Actually, I only made a wild guess, because it "sounded" like him. I didn't know that quote, because it's in English. Frankly, I never seen this quote in German. I mean, it makes perfect sense he would have said that, but I guess the actual words might have been different, else I should easily be able to find it. But yet, I didn't. If anybody cares I can do some research, because this suprises me.

[Psi Baba]

How interesting. You can easily imagine the words (in the appropriate languages of course) emanating from either mouth.

http://www.thememoryhole.org/pol/bush-hitler2.jpg

[P.S.A.]

Ahhh, already answered before I could guess... although admittedly I would not have been able to guess, despite it ringing a few bells.

It raises an interesting point though (one seperate from the LG mention... has he foamed on even more about our evil ways since last night? I'll see shortly I guess...); People forget, or choose to deliberately misinterpret, just what it was that made Hitler so able to rise in to the top in Weimar Germany. It's not that German society was particularly evil, because Hitler never won outright majority support. But he was able to appeal to many, many sectors of society just enough to become the political fulcrum, and from there become the Fuhrer... by which time it was too late to quibble that you quite liked his policy on Religion, but not the rest of his policies. You got the lot.

Stalin did something similar within the Bolsheviks and from there into the Politburo, and then onto the world stage, it might be added.

It would be nice to think that Hitler was an aberation, but he wasn't... he was an archetype, an archetype of the human malice that exists in every human heart. It's a lesson that utopians have failed to learn again and again... A lesson which, surprisingly, the comedic writer Terry Pratchett captured quite well in his novel "Night Watch";

Some arrows fell short, some did not. And there were people who fired back.

And then, one after another, horrible things would happen. By then it was too late for them not to. The tension would unwind like a spring, scything through the city.

There were plotters, there was no doubt about it. Some had been ordinary people who'd had enough. Some were young people with no money who objected to the fact that the world was run by old people who were rich. Some were in it to get girls. And some had been idiots as mad as Swing, with a view of the world just as rigid and unreal, who were on the side of what they called "The People." Vimes had spent his life on the streets and had met decent men and fools, and people who'd steal a penny from a blind beggar, and people who performed silent miracles or desperate crimes every day behind the grubby windows of little houses, but he'd never met The People.

People on the side of The People always ended up disappointed in any case. The found that The People tended not to be grateful or appreciative or forward-thinking or obedient. The People tended to be small-minded and conservative and not very clever and were even distrustful of cleverness. And so, the children of the revolution were faced with the age-old problem: it wasn't that you had the wrong kind of government, which was obvious, but that you had the wrong kind of people.

As soon as you saw people as things to be measured, they didn't measure up.

What would run through the streets soon enough wouldn't be a revolution or a riot. It'd be people who were frightened and panicking. It was what happened when all the machinery of a city faltered, the wheels stopped turning, and all the little rules broke down. And when that happened, humans were worse than sheep. Sheep just ran; they didn't try to bite the sheep next to them.

[wahrheit]

As said before I was suprised I would have never read such a famous quote before in my native language, which happens to be the same Hitler used.

I did some research on that quote, here are my first findings, so far. I don't say any of it is "fact", but I did my best in trying to find out more about it in the short time until now.

It seems to me that this might not be an authentic, genuine quote of Adolph Hitler. By that I mean to say it should not be put between quotation marks, followed by name and date.
When I google the first words of the English translation, I get 940 hits. I used the search string [/i]"secular schools can never be tolerated" hitler[/i]. The quotation marks ensure that google only lists sites that have these words in the given order.
Doing the above Google, and adding one single German word of that alleged speech to it, I get zero results. That means: There's not one single site that quotes this Hitler quote and also gives the original, not translated version for reference. That surprised me.
Wikipedia lists this quote as "attributed".
Trying to search for a translation of parts of it in German, I did not find any usable result.
What I did find: On April 26 1933 Hitler talked to Bishop Dr. Berning and vicar-general Dr. Steinmann, regarding beliefers and religious education at schools: „... Eine weltliche Schule kann niemals geduldet werden, weil eine solche Schule ja keinen Religionsunterricht hat... Wir haben Soldaten notwendig, gläubige Soldaten. Gläubige Soldaten sind die wertvollsten, die setzen alles ein...“
Translated by me, rather verbatim for accuracy, not neccessarily fine English:
A secular school can never be tolerated, because such a school does not have religious education... We need soldiers, believing soldiers. Believing soldiers are the most useful (precious/valuable) ones, they put in everything..."
("put in" meaning giving all, show full commitment)

My conclusion, so far -- this is of course not a true scientific research I did -- is the following:

Of course the quoted could well have been from Hitler, he said things like that on several occassions. But it seems not to be part of a "speech", but merely from a memorandum of a meeting, or personal account maybe by that bishop. If that would be true, it's not "good" (correct) if humanist, atheist, secular or whatever organisations present it as an authentic speech. Might sound nitpicking, but we are on an educational and skeptic site here, so anything that might add something to truth should be okay.

[arthwollipot]

I haven't looked at Google, and I haven't looked at any of the other replies to this post, but I believe that Adolf Hitler said this.

I'm pretty sure it came up on one of my other discussion boards recently. Am I right?

Edited: I've now read the rest of the thread, and I see that I am. Thought so.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Who said the following.


"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."


NO cheating!! A candy bar for the winner, I have spoken to RandFan ( well not "Officially� spoken to him) and he will send the winner a nice candy bar:D

Who said that? YOU did, Pahansiri, in the opening post in this thread.

It's undeniably true.

You probably meant to ask, who said it first. But you didn't.

Nobody said the answer couldn't be jesuitically sophistric.

I like candy bars.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Who said that? YOU did, Pahansiri, in the opening post in this thread.

It's undeniably true.

You probably meant to ask, who said it first. But you didn't.

Nobody said the answer couldn't be jesuitically sophistric.

I like candy bars.

Did I "say it" or did I cut and paste it????

No candy for YOU:p

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Did I "say it" or did I cut and paste it????

No candy for YOU:p

I assumed you were dictating as a trained monkey typed your posts. That's how I do all of my posts. I assumed the practice was universal.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
I assumed you were dictating as a trained monkey typed your posts. That's how I do all of my posts. I assumed the practice was universal.

The trained monkey being a bit smarter then me he refused to work and walked off.

[Mercutio]

Monkeys can be trained?

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Monkeys can be trained? Must... avoid... cheap... shot.
Yeah, how do you think the churches get congregations!
Oh god d--- it!

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Mercutio
Monkeys can be trained?

http://www.eldtrain.com.au/members/humour/Monkey.gif

[Meadmaker]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Who said the following.


"Secular schools can never be tolerated because such a school has no religious instruction and a general moral instruction without a religious foundation is built on air; consequently, all character training and religion must be derived from faith . . . We need believing people."



I just read the initial post, and haven't cheated. I'm going to take a long shot guess.

John Adams.

(Now I'll go back and read the rest of the tread.)

Edited: I'm surprised. Hitler was a pretty secular sort of dude, wasn't he? But it doesn't surprise me that he would manipulate the institutions for whatever benefit. I thought of guessing Hitler, just because he is so often the answer to questions of this sort, but I just didn't see him saying "we need believing people". If it had been "we need believing soldiers", that would have sounded much more like Hitler.

I guessed Adams because it sounded like the sort of debate one would be having about what to do when founding a nation, and Adams was on the side of continuing to have state funding of religious institutions. I vaguely recalled hearing him argue, against Jefferson, for religious instructions in schools. I thought perhaps the "cannot be tolerated" might be out of context and perhaps only referred to Massachusettes state-run schools.

Doing a quick google, the best quote I could find vaguely similar was from Sam Adams, in correspondence to John:

"Let divines and philosophers, statesmen and patriots, unite their endeavors to renovate the age, by impressing the minds of men with the importance of educating their little boys and girls, of inculcating in the minds of youth the fear and love of the Deity. . . and, in subordination to these great principles, the love of their country. . . . In short, of leading them in the study and practice of the exalted virtues of the Christian system.
Letter to John Adams, 1790, who wrote back: "You and I agree." Four Letters: Being an Interesting Correspondence Between Those Eminently Distinguished Characters, John Adams, Late President of the United States; and Samuel Adams, Late Governor of Mass- achusetts. On the Important Subject of Government (Boston: Adams and Rhoades, 1802) pp. 9-10