Got this in Email. Any critique?

[CSSMariner]

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their
affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of
them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with
>Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there.
We would station troops at our borders. No more sneaking
through holes in the fence.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and
leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder
will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or
where they are. France would welcome them.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90
days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation
would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself;
don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone. We
don't need any more cab drivers.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If
they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy
wise. This will include developing non polluting sources of energy
but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness.
The caribou will have to cope for a while.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel
for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we
will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds,
rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give
them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get
very little, if any, anyway.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the
spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good
homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one
can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.

11) And lastly, bring back the manufacturing from our country, curtail
the cheap imports from all over the world and put the middle class back
to work in our country.

Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by CSSMariner

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the
spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good
homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.

You sold me on this point alone! Just think how many parking places this would free up in NYC. And with non-diplomatic cars that would actually have to pay for their tickets.

[corplinx]

How could the author forget cutting off all foreign aid? If you are going to make a list of isolationist retaliation for anti-american sentiment abroad, then cutting off all foreign aid has to be on the list.

[rustypouch]

Originally posted by CSSMariner


1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their
affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of
them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.

[/B]

In my opinion, there his a huge difference between helping defend a country several years after they have been invaded and started asking for help(WWII started in '39 and the U.S. got involved in '41) and invading a much smaller and weaker country because they are considered a "possible threat," even when they have shown little, if any military aggression to you.

This seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to people who disagree with certain actions taken by the U.S. Just because people don't agree with certain things you do, it does not mean they are compleatly against you. I have noticed that many people, on this forum and others, many of whom I assume are American, view the world as being polarized. In other words, everyone's beliefs are either at one extreme or the other, with no middle ground. I find that most hard questions require slightly more sublety than "yes" or "no" answers.

[Richard G]

If I were President, all of this would happen. I would not apologise for anything though.

[iMoc]

[QUOTE]3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and
leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder
will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or
where they are. France would welcome them.

Let me let you in on a little secret about entering the country illegally.

Start by imagining all these illegal aliens, lets guess at ten million, having to leave in 90 days. The majority of them have been here for years, have homes and families, (incidentally they pay tax, and are actually very patriotic towards the USA). Those who left, if any, would leave it as near to the 90 day limit as possible. The INS then has, in addition to the thousands filled in daily by departing tourists, a proof of departure form, (form I94, I think) for each person that left. Obviously we are talking hundreds of thousands of forms.

Now, these form take weeks to process. So, what does the wise deportee do? Yes, he or she re-enters the county as rapidly as possible via a different entry point, and happily resume daily life.

Now how about making all illegal aliens here now legal and making more efficient use of a useful bunch of people. Illegal immigration is not a financial or logistical problem, it's a political and racial problem. If people in the USA are so proud of the French made Statue of Liberty, then why don't you read what it says on it "Give me your tired, your poor,Your huddled masses", or don't we mean that any more. It should read "Give me your oil, your scientists, your doctors, and anyone else who can make us look good and kick some butt on our behalf".

It is yet another perpetual myth that everyone in the world wants to come to the USA. All of western Europe and Australia have stringent immigration laws to try and control their borders. believe it or not, other countries are good to live in too!!

So keep the pathetic anti-French innuendo to your self, it's lame, it's old, and it was never very clever.

[iMoc]

[QUOTE]) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their
affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of
them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.


WW11 was the best thing that ever happened to this country and has made it the superpower it is today. We sat and watched as Europe was destroyed, racked up some delicious intrest rates from desparate allies, on cordial terms with Hitler, and even made some money from arms deals with him, until we decided it was time to join in the fray. The UK had just held out due to air superiority, and we were able to use their country as a base.

We lost relatively little (about 300,00 lives) and gained everything, including a great bunch of Nazi technology which got us too the moon and helps us kill others as well as they did back then.

The rest of the original post is so sophomoric I can't be bothered to deal with it.

[Vorticity]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
...We
don't need any more cab drivers...

How about produce pickers? Get rid of all the illegal immigrants, and you can say goodbye to the agricultural economy of, at the very least, California.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers.

Jeez, hasn't anybody ever heard of grad school?!
This absurd generalization pisses me off a bit. I'm a grad student in physics/math, and some of my best friends are foreign students over 21. My research group is made up almost entirely of foreigners. There are Chinese, Indians, Saudis, Israelies, Italians, Russians, Poles, and one Frenchman. In many fields, foreigners are the backbone of U.S. graduate study. And they're all bombers? Thats a stupid, xenophobic statement.
8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we
will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds,
rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give
them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get
very little, if any, anyway.
So are you saying that most (ie more than 50%) of the food aid given by the U.S. and U.S.-based charities gets stolen or given to an army? I don't believe that for one second. Sure, we've all heard of particular places where this occurs, but most? I'd have to see some damn good evidence for that.

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one
can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.

Sorry to break this to you, but people in other countries don't call us "ugly americans" because we are lacking in social charms and attractiveness. In my experience, people in other countries have no more or less of those things than we do. They call us that because we are arrogant, condescending, and willingly remain ignorant of other cultures, languages and ways of life.

[CSSMariner]

I didn't author the bit, nor did I say I was in agreement with every point; I just passed it on from Email to see what it would stir up out there.

It is very isolationist, but as far as being anti-French, I have been there and I think we should let the French be French, as they will in any case. The French built a Maginot Wall, which George the Second is trying to emulate with "Star Wars Part Two." The so-called missile shield would be even more ludicrously wasteful that the French version, and even less effective in protecting us from real terrorism, or sub-launched missiles from 90 miles offshore.

Be that as it may, we, in concert with the Brits and Aussies, are dealing with an a * * hole of the worst kind, and at the end of the day I predict that the vast majority of those publicly coming out against the action in Iraq will very quietly say "Whew, I'm glad Sadass Insane is gone."

[Roadtoad]

I understood all that, Mariner. Not everyone else is going to.

As to the immigrants, legal and otherwise, let me make this statement, and you can take it from there: When I was doing janitorial work, and when I worked for our local rendering company, one of the things I noticed is that I was one of the few white guys doing any of that. Most white men are too proud to clean toilets, or skin cattle, or pick fruit, or anything else like that. They'll sit on their asses and collect unemployment, while their families do without.

It's the sort of attitude I see in that e-mail you got that pisses me off. We don't want immigrants, but I'll be damned if any of those folks I saw with "Will Work For Food" signs ever showed up and took a job running a tallow filter press or accepted a gig mopping floors.

[JANman]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
Here's the plan:
7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel
for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace elseI'd like to know where else exactly?
[Q]
11) And lastly, bring back the manufacturing from our country, curtail
the cheap imports from all over the world and put the middle class back
to work in our country. [/QUOTE]
oh yeah they'll surely be happy to work for minimum wage:rolleyes:

[DrChinese]

Originally posted by rustypouch


In my opinion, there his a huge difference between helping defend a country several years after they have been invaded and started asking for help(WWII started in '39 and the U.S. got involved in '41) and invading a much smaller and weaker country because they are considered a "possible threat," even when they have shown little, if any military aggression to you.

This seems to be a knee-jerk reaction to people who disagree with certain actions taken by the U.S. Just because people don't agree with certain things you do, it does not mean they are compleatly against you. I have noticed that many people, on this forum and others, many of whom I assume are American, view the world as being polarized. In other words, everyone's beliefs are either at one extreme or the other, with no middle ground. I find that most hard questions require slightly more sublety than "yes" or "no" answers.

That was very well said, Rusty. Why would I, an American, get offended by someone else's position if I am comfortable with my own? And, as you point out, we are fond of selective memory when it comes to historical facts. We certainly did NOT declare war on Germany to rid the world of Hitler. We did NOT declare war to liberate the Germans or protect Jews. That was a byproduct of the true reason we declared war on Germany, because they were allied with Japan at the time of Pearl Harbor. We were such a good friend of Britain that we allowed them to come perilously close to being defeated by Germany. (We did give them economic aid and weapons, no troops despite Churchill's repeated requests.) Things are never quite so black and white, as this shows.

George W set the stage for this polarizing effect in his speech right after 9/11. He said (paraphrase) "you are with us, or you are with the terrorists." And that has been the nature of his debate since then - i.e. "you are with us or against us", the true meaning of his paraphrased words. He can't see a middle ground, and that is what makes him so dangerous to the rest of the world.

The one thing I can say I agree with CSS about is that if we can't play nicely with the other nations, we need to come home and stay in our rooms for a while.

[DrChinese]

Originally posted by CSSMariner
I didn't author the bit, nor did I say I was in agreement with every point; I just passed it on from Email to see what it would stir up out there.

It is very isolationist, but as far as being anti-French, I have been there and I think we should let the French be French, as they will in any case. The French built a Maginot Wall, which George the Second is trying to emulate with "Star Wars Part Two." The so-called missile shield would be even more ludicrously wasteful that the French version, and even less effective in protecting us from real terrorism, or sub-launched missiles from 90 miles offshore.

Be that as it may, we, in concert with the Brits and Aussies, are dealing with an a * * hole of the worst kind, and at the end of the day I predict that the vast majority of those publicly coming out against the action in Iraq will very quietly say "Whew, I'm glad Sadass Insane is gone."

I agree with your statement about the missile shield being wasteful. There is risk in the world, and it comes in all forms. Like the Maginot Line, it makes little sense to focus on such a specific type of attack. It assumes that this is the most likely form of an attack. Question: remember the anthrax attacks? Oh, and the World Trade Center. And OKC?

An open, free society is by its very nature subject to attack. I think the world has long since learned that when attacked, we bite back. This is the best deterrent, and one which we did not need to remind the world about by invading Iraq.

But I have a bone to pick. I thought it was SoDamn Insane.

[muckraker]

We certainly did NOT declare war on Germany to rid the world of Hitler. We did NOT declare war to liberate the Germans or protect Jews. That was a byproduct of the true reason we declared war on Germany, because they were allied with Japan at the time of Pearl Harbor.

Minor historical correction: the US didn't declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the US (just after Pearl Harbor). Probaly Hitler's second biggest mistake (with invading Russia #1).

[DrChinese]

Originally posted by muckraker


Minor historical correction: the US didn't declare war on Germany until Germany declared war on the US (just after Pearl Harbor). Probaly Hitler's second biggest mistake (with invading Russia #1).

I stand corrected. I agree that Hitler taking on Russia was his biggest strategic error. Seems stupid in retrospect, doesn't it?

And then, Japan attacked the US, waking the sleeping giant. Seems stupid in retrospect, doesn't it?

Amazing that both of them made similar strategic errors. I wonder if that is an inevitable consequence of raw power - the urge to select ever larger targets, take ever greater risks?

[Tricky]

Originally posted (but not written) by CSSMariner (so he's off the hook) ;)

Here's the plan:

1) The US will apologize to the world for our "interference" in their
affairs, past & present. You know, Hitler, Mussolini and the rest of
them 'good old boys'. We will never "interfere" again.
Uh huh. Unless our interests are threatened or our way of life is in peril or we feel like it.

2) We will withdraw our troops from all over the world, starting with
>Germany, South Korea and the Philippines. They don't want us there.
We would station troops at our borders. No more sneaking
through holes in the fence.
Probably the locals would support this plan, even though it hurt their economy. As to stopping illegal immigration, lots of politicians talk about it, but there is a good reason why they never do anything about it. It would severely harm the economy.

3) All illegal aliens have 90 days to get their affairs together and leave. We'll give them a free trip home. After 90 days the remainder will be gathered up and deported immediately, regardless of who or where they are. France would welcome them.
I hope you don't like fruits and vegetables. Or if you do, you are willing to pay a lot more for them.

5) No "students" over age 21. The older ones are the bombers. If they don't attend classes, they get a "D" and it's back home baby.

Hmm. So you don't want any more doctors?
You know, Russia (at least the USSR) had a plan something like this, where only the "outstanding" students received education. I didn't realize you considered them such a great model for freedom.

4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90 days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself; don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone. We don't need any more cab drivers.
Scenario: A brilliant physicists from a "terrorist nation" applys for asylum, in return for which he will share his discoveries which could make us less energy dependant. We tell him to go back home.
Thouroughly check out? Do you seriously expect OUR government to be able to handle a job like this? What governmental agency have you found that is so thorough? Maybe we could farm out the job to illegal immigrants.

6) The US will make a strong effort to become self sufficient energy wise. This will include developing non polluting sources of energy but will require a temporary drilling of oil in the Alaskan wilderness. The caribou will have to cope for a while.
LOL. This is such a joke. The only way for the US to become energy independant (barring the discovery of a new energy source) is to drastically cut energy usage. You may have noticed from the refusal to sign the Kyoto accords, that Americans are not really willing to do this.
Oh, and BTW, all drilling is temporary. You drill until the oil is gone then you move out. Actually, the caribou might do fine. Still I think it is a bad plan to use up one of the few things that America does not have in abundance. Save it until we are desperate. You may not have to wait long.

7) Offer Saudi Arabia and other oil producing countries $10 a barrel for their oil. If they don't like it, we go someplace else.
Uh huh. It is nearly impossible to produce oil for $10 a barrel (I am a petroleum geologist). Try to lay down such a law and OPEC will simply shut in their wells or sell to someone else less demanding. Better plan on parking your SUV for a while. Of course, we could always invade them to save them from a brutal dictatorship.

8) If there is a famine or other natural catastrophe in the world, we will not "interfere". They can pray to Allah or whomever, for seeds, rain, cement or whatever they need. Besides, most of what we give them is stolen or given to the army. The people who need it most get very little, if any, anyway.
We already have this policy, but only for places that are of no economic interest to us. It is in our interest to keep our markets from being destroyed. Also, I would be willing to bet that the US Government does not have such a lion's share of international aid as you would suspect. Much of it, especially humanitarian, comes from private contributors.

9) Ship the UN Headquarters to an island some place. We don't need the spies and fair weather friends here. Besides, it would make a good homeless shelter or lockup for illegal aliens.


Do want out of the UN, or just want it somewhere else? Surely it can't be because of the expense, since the US it terrible about paying it's UN dues.

Yes, the UN has some problems. Do you honestly feel it would be better if countries NEVER tried to work out their problems with diplomacy? Do you think it would be better if the US were left out of these discussions?

10) All Americans must go to charm and beauty school. That way, no one can call us "Ugly Americans" any longer.
Learning a little humility would go a long way.

11) And lastly, bring back the manufacturing from our country, curtail the cheap imports from all over the world and put the middle class back to work in our country.
Get ready for double-digit inflation, then. Also get ready to go toe-to-toe with the wealthiest people in America. They're not fond of having their profit margins reduced by doing things like paying minimum wage or paying taxes. That's why they vote Republican.

Now, ain't that a winner of a plan.
It's very nice. Now take your Prozac and try to get some rest.

[Roadtoad]

Originally posted by DrChinese
...As you point out, we are fond of selective memory when it comes to historical facts. We certainly did NOT declare war on Germany to rid the world of Hitler. We did NOT declare war to liberate the Germans or protect Jews. That was a byproduct of the true reason we declared war on Germany, because they were allied with Japan at the time of Pearl Harbor. We were such a good friend of Britain that we allowed them to come perilously close to being defeated by Germany. (We did give them economic aid and weapons, no troops despite Churchill's repeated requests.) Things are never quite so black and white, as this shows.

If I recall, there were numbers of Americans who not only thought we shouldn't get involved in WWII, but there were even a fair number of those who thought Hitler had the right idea as concerned the Jews.

As to "liberating" Germany, it's hard for some of us to remember that the Germans really weren't all that keen on being "liberated." Keep in mind that Hitler was a popularly elected official; he told the Germans what they wanted to hear. (Sound familiar?) Had U.S. foreign policy been what it is now, it's entirely possible that Hitler would have risen to power with the assistance of Hoover.

This is part of the problem with the whole conflict with Iraq: We were the ones who put Hussein in power. The problem in this country is that we seem to think the Iraqis don't know this. Wrong...

[Peskanov]

---
quote:
4) All future visitors will be thoroughly checked and limited to 90
days unless given a special permit. No one from a terrorist nation
would be allowed in. If you don't like it there, change it yourself;
don't hide here. Asylum would not ever be available to anyone. We
don't need any more cab drivers.
---

I really like the whole concept, but I think this point should be strengthened. You should not allow anybody entering your country.
See, half of the scientist working in USA come from Europe, China or Russia.
Here, in Spain, there are tons of universities but no work for graduates. You can talk with a taxi driver and find that he is graduated in psychology or mathematics, for example. Investigators usually get bored seeing his talents wasted and scape to greener ($) lands like USA.
My idea is that you should expel all those inmigrants and close frontiers. This way, Europe (and my f***g country) would be forced to do something useful with all that talent. In 20 years we could stop paying the USA for technology invented by our own citizens. And you would be creating a nice future for your sons explaining them creationism and all that nice theories you seem to like so much...

A nice picture! I fully support the idea!

[Supercharts]

It's really all the fault of THE JEWS. It's ALWAYS the fault of the JEWS.
Damn JEWS.
Jew, Jew, Jew... Can't say it enough.
Jew, Jew, Jew.
Kick them while they're down. Gas them.
Jew, Jew, Jew.
Let's all blame THE JEWS!!!

[Supercharts]

For those without a clue...
"New York: Katz's Delicatessen
In the great debate over which coast has the best Jewish deli, the legendary Katz's is the East Coast's contender according to Jonathan Gold, restaurant critic for Gourmet magazine. (See Langer's Delicatessen in Los Angeles for Jonathan's West Coast pick.)"

http://table.mpr.org/whereweeat/travel_katz.shtml

[Vorticity]

Originally posted by Supercharts
...(See Langer's Delicatessen in Los Angeles for Jonathan's West Coast pick.)...

I must respectfully disagree with this pick for the west coast contender. Real Angelinos know that Cantor's is the best:
http://anaheim.lodging.com/auto/localview.cgi?name=Can't+Beat+L.A.'s+Cantor's