Belief in god(s) doesn't harm anyone

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Children Buried Alive in India (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/14/india.burials.reut/index.html)

Sure. You betchya.

[EGarrett]

"If we believe absurdities, we shall commit atrocities." --Voltaire

One of my favorite quotes, or at least a paraphrase of his quote.

[Roadtoad]

This is no different than the family about 20 years ago that believed their daughter was "possessed," because she wore makeup, and had her exorcised. She died as a result of being denied food and water for something like a week, IIRC.

[Kopji]

Brought to you by the same fun loving gang:


Hundreds of people have been injured in an annual stone throwing festival at a remote mountain village in northern India

Residents of Dhami near Shimla divided themselves into two groups and pelted stones at each other

The group having the least number of wounded were declared winners reports Asian News International.

It is reported participants were extremely enthusiastic about the stone throwing ritual, which continued for more than an hour in spite of injuries sustained

Local administrators and police set up several makeshift medical camps to treat the bleeding victims.

Those severely wounded were taken to hospitals at Shimla for treatment

The 100-year-old event called Sati Pradha Mela marks the death of a local queen by Sati, an ancient Hindu custom whereby a woman immolates herself on the funeral pyre of her husband.

http://www.ananova.com/news/story/sm_1179330.html?menu=

[Kopji]

Which brings us to the custom of Sati...


Sati (Su-thi , a.k.a. suttee) is the traditional Hindu practice of a widow immolating herself on her husband's funeral pyre.

"Sati" means a virtuous woman. A woman who dies burning herself on her husbands funeral fire was considered most virtuous, and was believed to directly go to heaven, redeeming all the forefathers rotting in hell, by this "meritorious" act. The woman who committed Sati was worshipped as a Goddess, and temples were built in her memory.
http://www.kamat.com/kalranga/hindu/sati.htm

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Residents of Dhami near Shimla divided themselves into two groups and pelted stones at each other

Hello Mr. Darwin? Your theory still applies.

[FireGarden]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
Children Buried Alive in India (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/14/india.burials.reut/index.html)

Sure. You betchya.

I wonder if the CS is aware that alot of people won't bother to read the linked page.

Here is a quote from the CNN article. I'm not saying that the practice is harmless, but I am saying the opening post is misleading.

The ceremony, in which children -- some less than a year old -- are buried alive briefly and then dug up, happened on Monday in southern Tamil Nadu state, The Asian Age reported on Thursday.

[Orangutan]

Searching for crusades I found this. (I dont know if it's an accurate quote).

http://www.vaughnthompson.com/weblog/archives/blow.jpg

;)
O.

[Jas]

Wow. One wonders why no one here thought to hold an annual stone-throwing festival here (although the Highland Games comes pretty close!).

[billydkid]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
Children Buried Alive in India (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/asiapcf/04/14/india.burials.reut/index.html)

Sure. You betchya.

Precisely why I have come to despise non-rational belief systems and religion - all of them - in particular. It amazes me that people "of faith" are inclined to feel themselves superior to those of us who have an actual interest in the truth. Believing is good, not believing is evil. They have it exactly assbackward. Not to mention it is extremely lazy and cowardly to simply choose to believe a comforting superstition for no reason other than the fact that it makes you feel better about yourself.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by FireGarden
I wonder if the CS is aware that alot of people won't bother to read the linked page.

Here is a quote from the CNN article. I'm not saying that the practice is harmless, but I am saying the opening post is misleading.

Yes, I read the article. So you are saying it is OK to bury the kids for, oh, let's say...1 minute?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by billydkid
Precisely why I have come to despise non-rational belief systems and religion - all of them - in particular. It amazes me that people "of faith" are inclined to feel themselves superior to those of us who have an actual interest in the truth. Believing is good, not believing is evil. They have it exactly assbackward. Not to mention it is extremely lazy and cowardly to simply choose to believe a comforting superstition for no reason other than the fact that it makes you feel better about yourself.

And yet you defend loony toon Michael Badnarik.

Strange.

[FireGarden]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
Yes, I read the article. So you are saying it is OK to bury the kids for, oh, let's say...1 minute?

No. I repeat:
I'm not saying that the practice is harmless, but I am saying the opening post is misleading.

You don't think that the headline is at all sensational?

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by FireGarden
No. I repeat:
I'm not saying that the practice is harmless, but I am saying the opening post is misleading.

You don't think that the headline is at all sensational?

The headline accurately states what is happening, doesn't it?

[to.by]

Accurately,yes. And the first mate was entirely truthful when he wrote in the logbook: The skipper was not drunk today.

[billydkid]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
And yet you defend loony toon Michael Badnarik.

Strange.

I figured this was coming. Actually, I never did defend Badnarik, per se. I did say I supported him because he was the candidate of the Libertarian Party. And I did say that it was not legitimate to dismiss him on the basis of nuclear weapon ownship thing, which I will not go into here. You may look at the same "data" as a libertarian and arrive at a different conclusion and find libertarians not credible for that reason, however, it has been my experience that when an effort is made to discuss the actual data and the possible conclusions to be derived from it the anti-libertarians are generally the first to depart from rational discourse and resort to sophistry and ad hominem attacks. The gun control issue is an example - the response to the data is invariably and essentially I know guns are bad and nothing you can say will change my mind. That is typical of the response to a libertarian argument. When any argument begins to threaten comfortable assumptions, the immediate response is to attack and discredit by any means possible.

[FireGarden]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
The headline accurately states what is happening, doesn't it?
Accuracy isn't the point. It only gives the gut-wrenching part of the story. Doesn't the headline "Parents charged with involving children in banned ritual" give a more complete picture?

All I can say is,
When I read the headline I was expecting one heck of an atrocity. So much so that I was actually relieved when I read the article. Which makes me uncomfortable, because I can imagine that the experience would have been frightening for the children. Especially the younger ones - some less than a year old. But all I could think of was "at least they didn't kill them"

If you had a less murderous image in mind when you read the headline, then fine. I jumped to conclusions. My apologies.

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by FireGarden
Accuracy isn't the point. It only gives the gut-wrenching part of the story. Doesn't the headline "Parents charged with involving children in banned ritual" give a more complete picture?

Not really. That sounds like the parents were letting them pray to a forbidden rain god, or dance on the wrong Tuesday, or something innocuous like that.

[FireGarden]

It's still better than the original. But how about:
"Parents charged with ignoring ban regarding festival of pits"

or even simply "The distressing festival of pits"

Either version is less sensational, and would probably lose a ratings war.

[Psi Baba]

The CNN headline reads, Children 'buried alive' in India. Note the quotes. TCS, you omitted the quotes, making it sound more ominous. It's still a bizarre, unnecessary ritual, and there is no guarantee that it is harmless, but the further into the article one reads, it sounds less and less insidious than one is lead to believe from the headline or the first few sentences. At the very end of the article, we learn, "The children are drugged to make them unconscious and placed in shallow "graves" in temple courtyards.
The pits are covered with leaves and dirt and the children are pulled out after Hindu priests chant a brief prayer -- lasting up to a minute."
It doesn't sound any different than full immersion baptism, yet there are no articles about baptism with the headline, Children 'drowned' in America.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer
Yes, I read the article. So you are saying it is OK to bury the kids for, oh, let's say...1 minute? No, just send them to an amusement park with all the "scary" rides. :eek: Or, maybe they could try sky diving or, bungy jumping?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
No, just send them to an amusement park with all the "scary" rides. :eek: Or, maybe they could try sky diving or, bungy jumping? :rolleyes:

Ever see a 2 yearold
1-sky diving
2-bungy jumping
3- On "scary" rides which are restricted to height and weight for older people? You know safety tested and regulated rides.
Never seen a safety check done on burying a human. How do you check for physiological safety for such an event?

Why do you post such silly things? I am starting to think you have FTS (Forums Tourette's Syndrome )

I will say I do not believe this thread is logical as yes some religious groups do these strange things, most do not just as people who do not believe in Gods do silly things and most don’t.


When you paint with a broad brush you often make a mess.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
When you paint with a broad brush you often make a mess. Do you know what clear-kote is? ;)

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Do you know what clear-kote is? ;)

Something that is transparent, without any real substance? Much like your post.:rub:

:book: don't tell anyone but it would be spelled" clear coat";) Kote would be a slang.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Something that is transparent, without any real substance? Much like your post.:rub:It all depends on whether you're trying to mask something over or, leave it unaltered. In which case a broad brush would do nicely ... either way.

:book: don't tell anyone but it would be spelled" clear coat";) Kote would be a slang. Clear Kote is a brand name I believe, and there's no actual word for "clear coat" in the dictionary.

[Roadtoad]

The product, IIRC, is called "Klear Kote." They use it on cars and airplanes. Makes it nice and shiny.

And, BTW: "Scary" was in quotes, and at some fairs we've attended, they have bungee rides for kids, but they aren't cranked up as high as they are for adults.

Just so you know.

And, no, the whole idea of burying a child in the ground for even a millisecond is abhorrent to me. Clearly these people are not thinking. At all.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
It all depends on whether you're trying to mask something over or, leave it unaltered. In which case a broad brush would do nicely ... either way.


Funny you can not see that my statment about a broad brush was in support of God based beliefs, how tall are you? Things seem to go right over your head with great ease.:p

Clear Kote is a brand name

Yes there are in fact many companies that use "Clear Kote" and NO you will not find it (Clear Kote)in any dictionary.

I believe, and there's actual word for "clear coat" in the dictionary.

yes but you also believe in God with no facts, so I assume because you believe there is an actual word for "clear coat" in the dictionary ( I can find NONE). I will with blind faith follow you my savior.:D

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Roadtoad
And, no, the whole idea of burying a child in the ground for even a millisecond is abhorrent to me. Clearly these people are not thinking. At all. What's the difference between that and asking someone to hold their breath under water for a few seconds?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
I will with blind faith follow you my savior.:D And when the time comes, I will say I never knew you. "For you honor me with your lips (those who follow me blindly), but your hearts are from me."

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What's the difference between that and asking someone to hold their breath under water for a few seconds?

A text book case of FTS (Forums Tourette's Syndrome )

If you even have to ask what the difference of being buried underground and putting your head under water then you may well be a lost cause.

You wish to Have people believe you and your cyber book etc then you say such silly things, sad. If there is God he must be going crazy knowing you are his PR man.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And when the time comes, I will say I never knew you. "For you honor me with your lips (those who follow me blindly), but your hearts are from me."

Megalomania.
meg·a·lo·ma·ni·a Audio pronunciation of Megalomania ( P ) Pronunciation Key (mg-l-mn-, -mny)
n.

1. A psychopathological condition characterized by delusional fantasies of wealth, power, or omnipotence.
2. An obsession with grandiose or extravagant things or actions.


I will come to the home they keep you at and bring you nice things ( nothing sharp) :D

[Roadtoad]

From Victor David Hanson's site:

Letter #11 from Saudi Arabia
High noon at Chop Chop Square
R.F. Burton
Private Papers

Last Friday I was invited to a beheading. Fortunately, it wasn't my own.

"They're going to chop one," Mohammed whispered, calling me on his mobile phone from a mosque in Deerah, "after noon prayer."

Renovated and remotely pleasant, Deerah resides deep in the black, clotted heart of old Riyadh. If anything approaches a tourist attraction in the Dead City, it would be Deerah. There you'll find a covered souk as colorful and picturesque as a Hollywood set, replete with cool, labyrinthine walkways redolent of spices, sandalwood, and rosewater. Old Arab men recline on piled Persian carpets, smoking hookahs and drinking tea, soft-selling everything from dusty chunks of frankincense and myrrh to coarse camel-hair saddlebags and scarred brass pots.

Around the corner is the gold market, showcasing enough of the metal to make a modern Midas mad with envy. Shop after shop groans with the weight of 18- and 24-karat gold fashioned into a constellation of sizes and designs. Crowns, tiaras, earrings, nose rings, studs, necklaces, chokers, chains, brooches, pendants, lockets, pins, gold belts, buckles, bracelets, bangles, charms, rings, anklets, toe rings, bars, money clips, coins, and key rings, all glittering like shards of the sun.

A short walk past the European-looking Clock Tower is the fully restored Masmak Fort, seized from the Turks at the turn of the last century. Past the fort and the mosque is a spacious tiled area called as-Sa'ah Square. In the evening locals gather there to talk, drink tea, and unleash their children to run amok in the moonlight. Come Friday morning the square is deserted until just before noon prayer. Then it is transmogrified into the bloodcurdling Chop Chop Square.

"If you leave now," Mohammed said excitedly, "you'll just make it."

"Thanks," I said, "but I think I'll have to pass." What could I say? The desire to see a human head lopped off—no matter how empty, vile, or evil—left me long ago.

When I first arrived in Arabia, a beheading was high on my list of must-sees. Right up there with gazing over Giza from the top of the Great Pyramid, watching funeral pyres on the ghats of the Ganges, and peeping from the perch of an elephant's back at randy rhinos frolicking on the steamy floor of a Nepalese jungle. Something cool to talk about at dinner parties when I returned to the so-called civilized world.

For six months my roommate and I drove from Al-Khobar to Dammam every Friday morning, had an Indian breakfast of masala dosa dipped in coconut chutney with cup after cup of sickeningly sweet, milky tea, and then wandered through the souks, killing time until noon prayer. At high noon we'd head to the old mosque in the center of downtown Dammam, next to Chopping Block Square, and wait around like vultures for a public execution.

One time an ambulance and several police cars parked near the mosque. The crowd became more animated. This is it, we thought. There was weird electricity in the air. Fifteen minutes later the ambulance and police drove off in a cloud of dust. It was another nonevent, another no-show. Human character being what it is, we grew impatient and gave up on seeing a beheading in Dammam.

"You don't want to see one," an older friend of mine named Fred told me a short time later.

"Why not?"

"Believe me, you're going to see enough ugly stuff by the time you're my age without having to carry around the memory of a beheading the rest of your life," Fred said. "You think it won't bother you, but it's a hard thing to see. Harder to forget. Wish I never went."

Then Fred told me about the execution he witnessed in the Dead City back in the 70s. Aside from one small detail, his account was much the same as other accounts I've heard over the years from other expatriates.

After noon prayer a police van holding the prisoner parked in Chop Chop Square next to the mosque. Police cars blocked off the streets and pushed the growing crowd back. The prisoner—drugged, cuffed, barefoot, manacled, and blindfolded—was led from the van by a police officer to the center of the square and made to kneel down, facing the holiest city of Islam: Mecca.

Like all expatriates in the crowd, Fred was escorted to the front by a scrawny muttawwa to ensure he wouldn't miss a thing. A minor official from the Interior Ministry read out the charges against the kneeling prisoner. The executioner—a large black man with a scimitar—approached the kneeling prisoner from behind. After the sentence was read, the executioner jabbed the prisoner in the lower back with the tip of the sword, causing the prisoner to involuntarily jerk up. When he did, the sword flashed down. At that moment the head is sliced off and sent flying across the square. Blood jets from the severed carotid arteries and jugular veins, spraying into the air like a fountain. The frenzied crowd screams in choreographed unison, "Allah Akbar"!

Allah's will is done.

That's how it's supposed to go. The beheading Fred witnessed went off a little differently. The executioner botched the job.

"I don't know if the prisoner had a short neck or he just jerked funny when they jabbed him in the back, but the blade glanced off his shoulder and only cut through half his neck," Fred said.

"He fell over sideways," he said. "I never saw so much blood. It was squirting out all over the place from the gash in his neck. He started moaning. It was awful. Even though he was doped to high heaven, it must have hurt like hell. It took two more swings to hack his head off."

"When it was over, I'll be damned if a doctor didn't walk over to the body and check his pulse," Fred said. "It was weird, seeing him kneel down next to a headless body, holding the wrist to make sure he wasn't going to get up and walk away."

Then the head and body were thrown onto a stretcher and placed in the ambulance and the ambulance driven away to bury the body in an unmarked grave. The excited crowd milled around for a while, cooling down from the excitement, then dispersed.

"I hear they spread plastic on the ground now," Fred said. "Then they just roll the mess up and take it away. That wasn't the case with the one I saw. Some poor half-starved Indian with a mop and a bucket had to clean up the mess. Nice job."

"What was he executed for?" I asked.

"Dope," Fred replied. "Smuggled it in from Pakistan. He was real young too. Bet he never imagined he'd be getting his head cut off one day for a damn fool mistake. Arabs say cutting a head off is more humane than the way we do it. It's supposed to be quicker. Maybe, if it's done right. It'd be a sight quicker than strapping a man in a chair and making him ride the lightning until his organs cook. What I don't like about cutting off a man's head is all that oxygen stored up in the brain. There's supposed to be enough oxygen to keep a man conscious even after his head's been cut off. All I know is it wasn't over fast enough for that boy. God knows what ran through his mind when they finally got his head off. It was awful."

As on other occasions, I took Fred's advice, and scratched beheadings off my list of must-sees.

A day after Mohammed's invitation to the beheading, on the way to work, I spotted a small news item in the Arab Gazette, no more than an inch of type on page five. One Zayid Bin Ali Bin Saleh Al-Thabitiwas had been beheaded for, among other offenses, practicing sorcery and magic.

I can't speak for the rest of the Dead City's denizens, but I'm not going to sleep any easier knowing there's one less sorcerer wandering the wastelands of Saudi Arabia. The Devil knows what mischievous imps that wizard conjured up those last horrific seconds of consciousness as his head rolled across the sun-scorched square.