How did the Bible book writers know that Mary was a virgin?

[Iamme]

Any religious theologians on board?

Did Joseph go around telling everyone that it wasn't *he* who got Mary pregnant? Would Mary have subjected herself to ridicule by claiming her baby was holy because she never did it with anyone?

I don't know if this anecdotal claim is true or not...but I heard on some tv history show, not that long ago, that back then, they were *into* virgin births. Like, this wasn't the first time that this sort of thing happened. I'm not sure what to make of that claim as well. Suppose that were true, though. Wouldn't you then have lots of people claiming their child was caused by a virgin birth?

Why is it that Joseph and Mary's story stuck?

And wasn't it true that the Gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written years after Jesus death?

[Z]

Some interesting observations here: http://www.answers.com/topic/virgin-birth

I've heard it said that 'virgin' referred not to sexual virginity, but to Mary being an independent woman of power... an 'unconquered woman'.

But, as mentioned in the link above, the gospels that mention Mary's virginity are late in the Bible, and the much earlier gospels and letters from Paul indicate that they had not yet hear the 'virgin birth' story.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I think because she wouldn't give it up on the first date, everyone assumed she was a virgin.

[Batman Jr.]

Originally posted by Iamme
Any religious theologians on board?

Did Joseph go around telling everyone that it wasn't *he* who got Mary pregnant? Would Mary have subjected herself to ridicule by claiming her baby was holy because she never did it with anyone?

I don't know if this anecdotal claim is true or not...but I heard on some tv history show, not that long ago, that back then, they were *into* virgin births. Like, this wasn't the first time that this sort of thing happened. I'm not sure what to make of that claim as well. Suppose that were true, though. Wouldn't you then have lots of people claiming their child was caused by a virgin birth?

Why is it that Joseph and Mary's story stuck?

And wasn't it true that the Gospel books of Matthew, Mark, Luke and John were written years after Jesus death?
Yeah, I always thought the "virgin birth" thing sounded like something a girl who would come on Jerry Springer would say to her boyfriend whom she had been cheating on.

[LW]

Originally posted by Iamme
How did the Bible book writers know that Mary was a virgin?

Because they misread couple of verses of Isaiah to imply that the Messiah would be born of a virgin. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah so, of course, Jesus had to be born of a virgin.

I don't know if this anecdotal claim is true or not...but I heard on some tv history show, not that long ago, that back then, they were *into* virgin births. Like, this wasn't the first time that this sort of thing happened.

Most of the pagan demigods were not virgin born (according to the relevant myths, that is) but the result of a god having physical sex with the woman in question.

[LW]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
I've heard it said that 'virgin' referred not to sexual virginity, but to Mary being an independent woman of power... an 'unconquered woman'.

People do say strange things.

[El Greco]

I keep thinking about poor Joseph... 2000 years later the whole world still talks about how he couldn't do his own wife.

[Iacchus]

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily.

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.

24 Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:

25 And knew her not till she had brought forth her firstborn son: and he called his name JESUS. ~ Matthew 1:18-25 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=1&version=9)

[wahrheit]

Originally posted by Iacchus

When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

Happens all the time, we just don't blame the Holy Ghost nowadays.

[Kaylee]

Originally posted by Iacchus
23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.
Another contradiction? Why wasn't Jesus named Emmanuel then?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Shera
Another contradiction? Why wasn't Jesus named Emmanuel then?
Because Jesus wasn't Hispanic.

[Ossai]

LW
Because they misread couple of verses of Isaiah to imply that the Messiah would be born of a virgin. They believed that Jesus was the Messiah so, of course, Jesus had to be born of a virgin. Wasn’t the verse ‘young woman’ and not virgin?

Ossai

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by wahrheit
Happens all the time, we just don't blame the Holy Ghost nowadays. Well, with all the coming in unto's, and the begetting and begatting in the Bible, it's kind of hard to see how they missed this one???

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Batman Jr.
Yeah, I always thought the "virgin birth" thing sounded like something a girl who would come on Jerry Springer would say to her boyfriend whom she had been cheating on.

Oh what a tangled web we weave, when e'er we practice to deceive.

2000 years later, we're still paying for it.

Mary: Uhh, it's...it's...it's from God. Yeah, that's the ticket!

Joseph: Golly! A gift baby from God. Maybe he's special? And I don't mean in the way people are gifted babies from God that are sometimes "special". I mean truly special, like a prophet or sumptin'!

Mary: Whew!

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Shera
Another contradiction? Why wasn't Jesus named Emmanuel then? Why do most of us have a middle name which we rarely use?

[Beerina]

20 But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.

21 And she shall bring forth a son, and thou shalt call his name JESUS: for he shall save his people from their sins.

22 Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord by the prophet, saying,

23 Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Emmanuel, which being interpreted is, God with us.


Just on the surface of it, isn't this a very bizarre way for a god to behave? Why do it in secret, taking longshots that it'll all develop properly? Why not just punk the pharoah or Romans or whoever is hasseling the Jews at the moment? Why not come down with a big booming voice everyone can hear?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Beerina
Just on the surface of it, isn't this a very bizarre way for a god to behave? Why do it in secret, taking longshots that it'll all develop properly? Why not just punk the pharoah or Romans or whoever is hasseling the Jews at the moment? Why not come down with a big booming voice everyone can hear? Perhaps because God prefers that we worship Him in private? Even the Pharoahs and Romans?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Why do most of us have a middle name which we rarely use?

Jesus middle name was not Emmanuel either or last name. The prophecy did not say “ His name will be Emmanuel but he will be called Jesus so thousands of year later people can ask Why do most of us have a middle name which we rarely use?

There are many unfulfilled messianic prophecy behind the Jesus story for example here are 2 good sites listing many of them

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim_lippard/fabulous-prophecies.html

http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/farrell_till/prophecy.html

Your analogy just is not logical.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Perhaps because God prefers that we worship Him in private? Even the Pharoahs and Romans?

Why would a perfect being which can have no ego, no desires no flaws want to be worshiped? How small a being in that position would be to just one day “think ( another thing it could not do being all knowing already) “hey I want to be worshiped, I will make a bunch of small beings, set a life of great suffering for them. I will know that not all will worship me before I make them but I will make them anyway then make them suffer for all time after a hard life for not doing what I knew they would not do anyway�

Truly a lesser God who clearly needs therapy

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Why would a perfect being which can have no ego, no desires no flaws want to be worshiped? How small a being in that position would be to just one day “think ( another thing it could not do being all knowing already) “hey I want to be worshiped, I will make a bunch of small beings, set a life of great suffering for them. I will know that not all will worship me before I make them but I will make them anyway then make them suffer for all time after a hard life for not doing what I knew they would not do anyway�

Truly a lesser God who clearly needs therapy Why would He wish to make it appear as if we had our own lives? Why couldn't He just create us all as if we were robots? Perhaps you can tell me which would be the lessor of the two?

Why would He even allow for the possibility of you calling Him insane, if in fact He weren't? Certainly there must be some appreciation on His part, for our ability to make up our own minds on the matter. Or else how could we acknowledge He was God?

[jimmygun]

Warning...sarcasm ahead...

Why would a young couple lie about having sex that resulted in pregnancy, especially in a time when such shinanigans would likely result in several rocks to the noggin?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Jesus middle name was not Emmanuel either or last name. The prophecy did not say “ His name will be Emmanuel but he will be called Jesus so thousands of year later people can ask A rose by any other name is but a rose ... And what does the name "Jesus" mean anyway? And are you sure no one ever called Him by the name Emanuel? Also, did you know that God Himself goes by more than one name, for example, "The Creator," "The Man Upstairs," "Our Heavenly Father," etc., etc..

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by jimmygun
Warning...sarcasm ahead...

Why would a young couple lie about having sex that resulted in pregnancy, especially in a time when such shinanigans would likely result in several rocks to the noggin? Would that be considered adultery though, if the child were born out of wedlock? Also, were people stoned for committing fornication? Of this, I am not sure of ...

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Would that be considered adultery though, if the child were born out of wedlock? Also, were people stoned for committing fornication? Of this, I am not sure of? ...
I'm all for being a little drunk for committing fornication, but I'll pass on stoned.

[Mephisto]

I guess that Joseph had a LOT more faith than most men these days would. Either that, or he was really stupid!

How far would that claim fly nowadays?

As someone above said, it sounds like a typical Jerry Springer show. I know that I wouldn't stick around long if my girlfriend (whom I hadn't had sex with) ended up pregnant then came to me with this clearly unbelievable story about some angel coming to tell her she was giving birth to the Messiah.

I wonder if Jerusalem had milkmen or postal service back then? ;)

Mephisto

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Why would He wish to make it appear as if we had our own lives? Why couldn't He just create us all as if we were robots? Perhaps you can tell me which would be the lessor of the two?

Why would He even allow for the possibility of you calling Him insane, if in fact He weren't? Certainly there must be some appreciation on His part, for our ability to make up our own minds on the matter. Or else how could we acknowledge He was God?

Why would a perfect being which can have no ego, no desires no flaws want to be worshiped? How small a being in that position would be to just one day “think ( another thing it could not do being all knowing already) “hey I want to be worshiped, I will make a bunch of small beings, set a life of great suffering for them. I will know that not all will worship me before I make them but I will make them anyway then make them suffer for all time after a hard life for not doing what I knew they would not do anyway�

Truly a lesser God who needs therapy


Answering a question with a question again, sad. If you can not answer just say so it is far more respectful then just ignoring people and will help incredibility your credibility.

Please allow me to ask you again my question then I will answer yours as I am a respectful person.


First mine


Why would a perfect being which can have no ego, no desires no flaws want to be worshiped? How small a being in that position would be to just one day “think ( another thing it could not do being all knowing already) “hey I want to be worshiped, I will make a bunch of small beings, set a life of great suffering for them. I will know that not all will worship me before I make them but I will make them anyway then make them suffer for all time after a hard life for not doing what I knew they would not do anyway�

Now on to yours.


Why would He wish to make it appear as if we had our own lives?


You are assuming I would believe “he� would create anything, I do not.

Why couldn't He just create us all as if we were robots? Perhaps you can tell me which would be the lessor of the two?



Why would He even allow for the possibility of you calling Him insane, if in fact He weren't?


Again I do not believe in “him� I see no evidence of such so I would not of course see “him� doing or not doing anything.

Certainly there must be some appreciation on His part, for our ability to make up our own minds on the matter. Or else how could we acknowledge He was God?

Prove God and we can talk about what he may or may not do.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
A rose by any other name is but a rose ... And what does the name "Jesus" mean anyway? And are you sure no one ever called Him by the name Emanuel? Also, did you know that God Himself goes by more than one name, for example, "The Creator," "The Man Upstairs," "Our Heavenly Father," etc., etc..

A rose by any other name is but a rose ... And what does the name "Jesus" mean anyway?


So does that mean everyone is the Christ, Bill, Frank, Larry, Sue???lol Hell a rose by any other name is but a rose. That is illogical.

As to the meaning of the name Jesus it is Hebrew and means “God will help� it is a myth that it means “he has come�.

So do you really believe that everyone before him ( if he existed) and after are “the Christ’??

Back to the point the prophecy is used to identify, he did not say look for “ God will help� or Jesus it said Emanuel.


And are you sure no one ever called Him by the name Emanuel?

I know you just hate to look at reality and what is known, facts and al and want to just believe what ever comes to mind but the fact is there is not one place in the Bible where he is called Emanuel. Your question is illogical.


Also, did you know that God Himself goes by more than one name, for example, "The Creator," "The Man Upstairs," "Our Heavenly Father," etc., etc..

You forgot “ the unproven fear based myth�

[Iacchus]

Yeah, but who was this guy called the "King of the Jews" anyway? It certainly wasn't Jesus was it? :con2: "The Lord of Lords" ... "the King of Kings?" What has that got to do with anything?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yeah, but who was this guy called the "King of the Jews" anyway? It certainly wasn't Jesus was it? :con2: "The Lord of Lords" ... "the King of Kings?" What has that got to do with anything?

So, hmmmmmm why is it that Jews do not call him the King of Kings" today? Why are there still Jews and not just all Christians? Why do Jews reject him as the "King of Kings?":con2:

Still did not answer any questions:rub: It is OK we know why;)

[Iacchus]

What are words? ... but an attempt to define something. Why do we "always" have to use the same words anyway? Why is there more than one language in the world? Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say? :con2:

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What are words? ... but an attempt to define something. Why do we "always" have to use the same words anyway? Why is there more than one language in the world? Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say? :con2:

What are words? ...

3 entries found for words.
word Audio pronunciation of words ( P ) Pronunciation Key (wûrd)
n.

1. A sound or a combination of sounds, or its representation in writing or printing, that symbolizes and communicates a meaning and may consist of a single morpheme or of a combination of morphemes.
2. Something said; an utterance, remark, or comment: May I say a word about that?
3. Computer Science. A set of bits constituting the smallest unit of addressable memory.
4. words Discourse or talk; speech: Actions speak louder than words.
5. words Music. The text of a vocal composition; lyrics.
6. An assurance or promise; sworn intention: She has kept her word.
7.
1. A command or direction; an order: gave the word to retreat.
2. A verbal signal; a password or watchword.
8.
1. News: Any word on your promotion? See Synonyms at news.
2. Rumor: Word has it they're divorcing.
9. words Hostile or angry remarks made back and forth.
10. Used euphemistically in combination with the initial letter of a term that is considered offensive or taboo or that one does not want to utter: “Although economists here will not call it a recession yet, the dreaded ‘R’ word is beginning to pop up in the media� (Francine S. Kiefer).

but an attempt to define something. Why do we "always" have to use the same words anyway?

So, one could say “ to drink gasoline is dangerous� or “ to drink gasoline is great safe fun� and mean the same thing
or “ Danger� signs could sometimes read “ No danger fun place ahead� and mean the same thing?

Or perhaps “stop� signs could sometimes read “ Go� and mean the same thing..

Silly boy, do you think about what you say before you say it?

Why is there more than one language in the world?

Do I really need to explain that to you?

In every language there will be a word for a thing like stop, when that word is said in any language it means STOP. When a prophecy says look for a person of one name you don’t go looking for a person of another name. When you are told to go see DR Larry for your meds do you just stop at the first DR you see no matter what his name is and take what ever he is holding?

Come on you are smarter then this.


Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say?

So, if you are told you can stay at Larry’s house for a weeks vacation will you knock on Mike’s door and tell him you are going to stay there because Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say?
I mean it is a house right?
:hit:

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
What are words? ... but an attempt to define something. Why do we "always" have to use the same words anyway? Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say? :con2:

Here are 2 other good ones.

Imagine if you will Iacchus a defense attorney for a rapist. The woman says she clearly yelled over and over NO NO NO.

Iacchus walks towards the stand and says.

“ But your honor my client heard the NO but wanted it to mean YES. What are words? ... but an attempt to define something. Why do we "always" have to use the same words anyway? Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say?�



After that case he was defending a restaurant owner.

It seems a woman with a very severe peanut allergy asked the owner if he used any peanut oils or products in his cooking for if she ate any she would surly die. He said “No�

But in fact he did knowingly use peanut oil and she died.

Iacchus walks towards the stand and says.

“ But your honor my client said NO but wanted it to mean YES. What are words? ... but an attempt to define something. Why do we "always" have to use the same words anyway? Is it possible that a set of words within one time frame, might apply equally well to another set of words within another time frame? Who are you to say?�


Wonder what the 12 people in the jury boxes in these 2 cases would think? What will be their vote? How long will it take the Bar association to yank his license?

[arthwollipot]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Would that be considered adultery though, if the child were born out of wedlock? Also, were people stoned for committing fornication? Of this, I am not sure of ...

A child being born out of wedlock is the very definition of adultery, according to some people. And people are still being stoned for it today (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/09/19/nigeria.stoning/).

But it seems to be mainly an Islamic rule. I'll have to check Deuteronomy again. That's where most of the really bloodthirsty laws are.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by arthwollipot
A child being born out of wedlock is the very definition of adultery, according to some people. And people are still being stoned for it today (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/09/19/nigeria.stoning/).That would be my mistake. In the first verse I quoted above, I thought it was saying Joseph and Mary hadn't yet been betrothed, when in fact I think it said they had ...

18 Now the birth of Jesus Christ was on this wise: When as his mother Mary was espoused to Joseph, before they came together, she was found with child of the Holy Ghost.

19 Then Joseph her husband, being a just man, and not willing to make her a public example, was minded to put her away privily. ~ Matthew 1:18-19 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=1&version=9)It was the part about "before they came together" that threw me. In which case let me ask this. If Joseph and Mary were not married before Jesus was conceived, would that be considered adultery? Primarily because no one is "cheating on the other" so to speak.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
So, if you are told you can stay at Larry’s house for a weeks vacation will you knock on Mike’s door and tell him you are going to stay there because What if neither one of them understood English? :con2:

[Pahansiri]

3 entries found for Irrelevant.
ir·rel·e·vant Audio pronunciation of Irrelevant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (-rl-vnt)
adj.

Unrelated to the matter being considered.

ir·rele·vant·ly adv.
Synonyms: irrelevant, extraneous, immaterial, impertinent
These adjectives mean not pertinent to the subject under consideration: an irrelevant comment; a question extraneous to the discussion; an objection that is immaterial; mentioned several impertinent facts.
Antonyms: relevant

Main Entry: ir·rel·e·vant
Pronunciation: ir-'re-l&-v&nt
Function: adjective
: not relevant : not applicable or pertinent <irrelevant allegations> <irrelevant evidence> —compare IMMATERIAL —ir·rel·e·vant·ly adverb

Irrelevant

adj : having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue; "an irrelevant comment"; "irrelevant allegations" [ant: relevant]

Once again you have managed to post a great example of irrelevancy. :clap:

The whole of the Bible was written in one original language then translated into many others for example English, your “native language� are you say. In each version or language there is a word that translates to Emanuel and a word that translates to Jesus.

One is not the other one in any language is Emanuel and the other is Jesus. :rub:


As I have said I believe you are a very intelligent man, but clearly you are 10 times more stubborn then you are intelligent. :bricks:

This is a bit like trap shooting you keep tossing up bus sized clay pigeons and we keep shooting them down.
:dl:

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Perhaps because God prefers that we worship Him in private? Even the Pharoahs and Romans?

Isn't having a little band of nomads rather a bizarre way to spread what you want everyone to know? These were enormous empires with powerful economies. Why throw people into Hell because they didn't believe some crackpot wandering around claiming their god was the true one?

By the way, according to the Bible, Egyptian gods do exist, too. They turned the pharoah's priest's stick into two snakes. Real, living snakes. Not teleported in from somewhere. Not robots. And don't say the Devil did it because:

1. Only gods can create life, not devils
2. The Bible didn't say the devil did it, so you're blowing smoke trying to reinterpret as a true monotheism.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Beerina
Isn't having a little band of nomads rather a bizarre way to spread what you want everyone to know? These were enormous empires with powerful economies. Yet this is the legacy we seemed to have inherited now isn't it? Besides, the only thing I was implying was that in order for religion to be meaningful (regardless of whose interpretation of God it entailed), it had to be accessible at the personal level. That basically we all have conscience, and this is how God approaches us.

Why throw people into Hell because they didn't believe some crackpot wandering around claiming their god was the true one?The problem with statements like this -- and no I don't agree with those who profess it -- is it's just a little bit oversimplified.

By the way, according to the Bible, Egyptian gods do exist, too. They turned the pharoah's priest's stick into two snakes. Real, living snakes. Not teleported in from somewhere. Not robots. And don't say the Devil did it because:

1. Only gods can create life, not devils
2. The Bible didn't say the devil did it, so you're blowing smoke trying to reinterpret as a true monotheism. The Devil? Who said anything about the Devil?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by arthwollipot
A child being born out of wedlock is the very definition of adultery, according to some people. And people are still being stoned for it today (http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/africa/09/19/nigeria.stoning/).

But it seems to be mainly an Islamic rule. I'll have to check Deuteronomy again. That's where most of the really bloodthirsty laws are. JOHANNESBURG, South Africa -- Pressure is mounting on the Nigerian government to spare the life of a Muslim woman condemned to death by stoning for adultery.

An Islamic court in the northern Nigerian city of Katsina will next week rule on whether to acquit 31-year-old single mother Amina Lawal on charges of adultery, or uphold the sentence of death by stoning.

Protesters in South Africa and Nigeria have demanded a reversal of the decision first handed down in March last year and unsuccessfully appealed in August.

Lawal gave birth on January 6 last year, more than two years after her divorce but only six-and-a-half months after Katsina formally reinstituted Islamic Shariah law. Now, what's funny -- and, while it may just be a coincidence -- this was the original birthdate of Jesus (January 6th) which was celebrated by the Christian Church until the fourth century ...

WHY ARMENIANS CELEBRATE CHRISTMAS ON JANUARY 6 (http://www.parev.net/armenian-story-christmas.htm)

It is frequently asked as to why Armenians do not celebrate Christmas on December 25th with the rest of the world. Obviously, the exact date of Christ's birth has not been historically established - it is neither recorded in the Gospels. However, historically, all Christian churches celebrated Christ's birth on January 6th until the fourth century.Isn't that the least bit strange that we should be speaking of such things as the virgin birth and being stoned for adultery? Hmm ... I wonder what this woman named her child?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Now, what's funny -- and, while it may just be a coincidence -- this was the original birthdate of Jesus (January 6th) which was celebrated by the Christian Church until the fourth century ...


Yet there are some who would place the date at September 11th http://members.tripod.com/~PetraGrail/page5.html

Most believe September-October in the time frame for the Roman tax collection.

Some believe September 29 is the date.

Some believe March or September
March or September


Sun Myung Moon was born January 6th maybe he is right and he is God

Isn't that the least bit strange that we should be speaking of such things as the virgin birth and being stoned for adultery? Hmm ... I wonder what this woman named her child?

Hmmmmm she was NOT a virgin and the child was a girl and she is Muslim so I am guessing NOT Jesus…

:con2: :nope:

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Pahansiri

Hmmmmm she was NOT a virgin and the child was a girl and she is Muslim so I am guessing NOT Jesus…

Emmanuelle, perhaps? :D

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Emmanuelle, perhaps? :D :dl:

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Marquis de Carabas
Emmanuelle, perhaps? :D Hey, you never know. Anyway, like I sad, the official date used be January 6th, that is until the Romans stepped in and changed it I believe. In whch case therei's no escaping the fact that this was the correct date ... at least in terms of the one that was originally "settled on."

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Hey, you never know. Anyway, like I sad, the official date used be January 6th, that is until the Romans stepped in and changed it I believe. In whch case therei's no escaping the fact that this was the correct date ... at least in terms of the one that was originally "settled on."

Hey, you never know. Anyway, like I sad, the official date used be January 6th, that is until the Romans stepped in and changed it I believe.

The Romans or more exactly Roman emperor Constine is perhaps the most important figure in Christianity as for if he choose one of the many religions in Rome and not the small sect of Christians Christianity would hardly exist today.

He liked the dream interpretation a Christian gave him telling him Jesus would help him kill and conquer many, how nice. If he liked what a Hindu told him you would be talking about Krishna.

Speaking of course of Krishna the Jesus story is just the last retelling of the sun God myths from a virgin birth to crucifixion. Sam story told for all these many Gods nothing new.

In whch case therei's no escaping the fact that this was the correct date ... at least in terms of the one that was originally "settled on."

1- Jesus is not fact.
2- The date if any would be in accordance with the story of tax collection and census, we know when the Romans did this and it was late August/ September NEVER in the winter.


Please also remember the earliest Christian writings, i.e. Paul speak of Jesus as a sprit not a real living person.

[Iamme]

Originally posted by El Greco
I keep thinking about poor Joseph... 2000 years later the whole world still talks about how he couldn't do his own wife.

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Jesus had brothers, supposedly. Where did *they* come from?

[Marquis de Carabas]

Originally posted by Iamme
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Jesus had brothers, supposedly. Where did *they* come from?
Lesser gods.

Zeus: Man, I hate settling for Jehovah's sloppy seconds.
Odin: Tell me about it.





edited to add tasteless joke

[Iamme]

Originally posted by Shera
Another contradiction? Why wasn't Jesus named Emmanuel then?

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I've thought the same thing, for years, and I have brought that up to my religious mother and told her she should ask her minister that question. They always say that the Messiah was prophesized in the old testament and Jesus was the one. Yet, you never hear the name Jesus mentioned in the old testament prohesies. It is Emmanuel.

If Joseph and Mary had the angel come to them to tell them that Mary was to give birth to the Messiah, then why was it named Jesus instead of Emanuel?