Bibles in hospitals removed

[IIRichard]

Randi's latest commentary notes the following with favor:

In an effort to control the spread of germs and "superbugs" in Canadian hospitals, the latest tactic is to remove the Holy Bible from the night-stands of patients' rooms.

Many religious persons will bring their own bibles. Really sick patients aren't going to be reading. Bibles are dry, closed articles highly unlikely to harbor infection. All the infection controll doctors I know say that the biggest source of nosocomial (hospital acquired) infections is dirty hands and that the most effective infection control is to wash hands (or reglove) after seeing each patient.

I feel that this is probably less of an infection control thing than a publicity stunt to convince the Canadian public that something's being done about the problem while avoiding the root cause - lazy doctors and nurses.

Let the flames begin:)

[Hastur]

All I can say is you never know. True, Bibles are probably not breeding grounds for diseases, but one never knows what might decide to take up shop in it. There may be infection if the book is being passed around people in proximity of the patient.

[DrMatt]

I'm just a tad tempted to make some calls (they'd cost me a pretty penny) just to see whether the folks at the hospital in question will confirm the story.

[Cosmophilosopher]

This is a true story.
I think people would be surprised what kind of things could be on those bibles. Nothing is more filthy than people's hands, and then if you scratch your eye, you can infect yourself with something.

Also, FECAL matter is found all over the place. Think about that next time you touch the door handle when you come out of a public washroom and then go to eat your meal.

The true moral of this story is to wash your hands with soap a number of times a day, and even use hand sanitizer with alcohol in it to kill viruses.

I am glad they pulled those bibles out of there.
Hospitals are going to have to start taking radical action to get rid of those "superbugs" which are killing many people.

[IIRichard]

Originally posted by Hastur
All I can say is you never know. True, Bibles are probably not breeding grounds for diseases, but one never knows what might decide to take up shop in it. There may be infection if the book is being passed around people in proximity of the patient.

OK then, remove the doorknobs, the drapes the chairs (they get moved). Remove the water carafe, no knowing what might be there, and the drinking glass. Remove the night table. No flowers. Wash down the room, the patient and all the furniture in clorox each night. The only reading light is UV.

Removing the bibles is simply silly in this context.

[Cosmophilosopher]

I guess you don't know anything about how they are sanitizing hospital rooms these days.
They DO sanitize the doorknob's, lamps, etc.
They DO remove and sanitize the water glass, etc.
They do remove the drapes in certain cases.

But sick people are touching the bibles, not the drapes. Its paper, its old, its filthy.

Calling doctors and nurses LAZY just shows you have no credible points.

Also, people seem to be totally ignorant about how many people DIE of super-bugs they catch in hospitals. It can be very dangerous if you are elderly.

Just bring your own bible, and pray to your own God.
There should not be bibles in there anyway, unless there is one for EVERY religion.
Public bibles in hotels are filthy too, don't touch them.

But its time for hospitals to get serious about getting rid of places where these super-bugs can live. We need a new hospital design that is sanitary.

[jambo372]

Lots of things could harbour germs in a hospital - not just bibles. In fact pathogenic micro-organisms probably would be unable to survive on a bible because it is holy.

I think the best way to deal with nosocomial infection would be as follows :

Have a unit especially built for patients with infections. Isolate all patients with Staphylococcal infections in special sanitary rooms. Also isolate patients with any contagious infection in these rooms. They should be locked. Any nurses or doctors who enter should wear gloves and mask and gown. Hands should be washed with disinfectant gels after leaving these rooms. Gowns should be frequently washed. Special equipment should be available to treat patients who would be in a normal ICU if they weren't infected.

Patients with respiratory infection should be locked in a room as above with no air-conditioning. Patients with enteric disease should have waste disposed of separately.

All nurses and doctors should be screened for MRSA at least weekly. If they are found to be carriers they should be suspended and treated with anti-septic nasal ointment until their next swab is clear.

Bedclothes should be washed between patients.

Operating theatres should be spotless. No one with an infection should be allowed out of designated areas.

Drug susceptibility tests should be done as often as possible and the drug susceptibility of the most common bacteria should be reported to doctors to help them pick empirical therapy. Drug classes could be cycled and/or mixed to reduce resistance potential. Standard narrow spectrum agents should be used in preference to potent or broad spectrum agents whenever possible. Viral infection and trivial bacterial infection should not be treated with antibiotics.

Everybody should be vaccinated against Pneumococcal infection, not just the elderly, asthmatic and immunosuppressed.

This of course would be time consuming and expensive.

In addition to this scientists should continue to look for new vaccines against these various infections. They should also look for more weak points in the bacterial cell in order to help synthesize new unique anti-microbial drugs with very low resistance inducing potential.

[Beady]

Originally posted by Cosmophilosopher
Also, FECAL matter is found all over the place. Think about that next time you touch the door handle when you come out of a public washroom and then go to eat your meal.

So, how do *you* leave a public washroom? Do you lurk next to the door until someone enters, then quick scoot outside before it closes?

Personally, I've got better things to worry about.

[Beady]

Originally posted by Cosmophilosopher
I guess you don't know anything about how they are sanitizing hospital rooms these days.
They DO sanitize the doorknob's, lamps, etc.
They DO remove and sanitize the water glass, etc.
They do remove the drapes in certain cases.

You've never actually worked in a hospital, have you? Next time you're in a patient's room, look under the bed and count the dust bunnies.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
Lots of things could harbour germs in a hospital - not just bibles. In fact pathogenic micro-organisms probably would be unable to survive on a bible because it is holy.

With a beginning like that... Do you know anything at all about medicine and/or hospitals? I especially liked:

Bedclothes should be washed between patients.:dl:

But it's so much more cost-effective to use the same linen for five or six patients!

[Solitaire]

Originally posted by Beady
So, how do *you* leave a public washroom?
Do you lurk next to the door until someone enters, then quick scoot outside before it closes?

I use to do that, but now I bring a paper towel, either to get in or get out, then discard it.
:)

[-42-]

Originally posted by jambo372
Lots of things could harbour germs in a hospital - not just bibles. In fact pathogenic micro-organisms probably would be unable to survive on a bible because it is holy.

:dl:

How about we infect a Bible with Anthrax, Smallpox, Ebola and Ecoli and have you peruse the Holy book and then lick your fingers and sniff all on 'em and maybe pick a scab too for good measure.


If it's such a big deal, have some Christian group buy a Bible for every patient. Seal it in plastic. When it's opened, dispose of it if left, if not just let the patient take it.

[dann]

Originally posted by -42-
If it's such a big deal, have some Christian group buy a Bible for every patient. Seal it in plastic. When it's opened, dispose of it if left, if not just let the patient take it.
Or the patients can tear out the pages and use them for doorknobs when they go to the bathroom ...
Won't bibles in the near future be replaced by interactive flat-screens anyway? Then the patients will be able to access the bible, if that's what they're interested in, or anything else. And they will be much easier to clean than bibles. If that also means that they actually will be cleaned is, of course, an entirely different matter.

[Cosmophilosopher]

Its an amazing invention, called a piece of toilet paper.

Originally posted by Beady
So, how do *you* leave a public washroom? Do you lurk next to the door until someone enters, then quick scoot outside before it closes?

Personally, I've got better things to worry about.

[Cosmophilosopher]

I am talking about when they are trying to contain a superbug in a hospital.
That's why rooms should be easier to clean somehow.

Originally posted by Beady
You've never actually worked in a hospital, have you? Next time you're in a patient's room, look under the bed and count the dust bunnies.

[Cosmophilosopher]

I also use my foot.
People have no idea the sh*t that is on a public washroom handle, from hundreds of people coming in and out of there.
Its gross. They don't clean them properly, and it builds up week after week.

Think about this next time you eat with your fingers AFTER coming out of a public washroom and touching the bathroom door handle covered with fecal matter and urine from hundreds of people that has been brewing for weeks.

Originally posted by Synchronicity
I use to do that, but now I bring a paper towel, either to get in or get out, then discard it.
:)

[Beady]

Originally posted by Cosmophilosopher
People have no idea the sh*t that is on a public washroom handle...

But you, apparently, do. I wonder why. And how.

Think about this next time you eat with your fingers AFTER coming out of a public washroom and touching the bathroom door handle covered with fecal matter and urine from hundreds of people that has been brewing for weeks.

You must be a very lonely person.

[dann]

Cosmophilosopher, you are not by any chance the guy they based the character Niles Crane on, are you?

[jambo372]

I was joking about the Bible. Being blasphemous.

Beady - what you said about using bed linen 5-6 times without washing it actually happens in hospitals believe it or not.

-42- Why would I lick my fingers ?
Most E.coli are harmless or even beneficial - the human gut is riddled with them. Only certain strains are dangerous when swallowed such as the relatively new 0157:H7 strain. This strain has actually only been traced back as far as the 1970s by epidemiologists, scientists are unsure how it came about but the most popular theory is probably that it emerged after a previously benign strain of E.coli received genetic material from Shigella dysenteriae encoding for a powerful verotoxin which has been linked to HUS.

The organisms you mention generally aren't classed as nosocomial infections.

You could pick up a viral condition like Ebola haemorrhagic fever or Smallpox outside a hospital. Outbreaks of Ebola have occured in African hospitals but only rarely. Smallpox is supposedly eradicated anyway although certain laboratories have stocks of it.

Naturally occuring Anthrax isn't a nosocomial infection. Originally the only people who caught it were farmers and people who worked with dried furs, wool or meat. It was effectively an occupational infection hence the previous name of Woolsorter's disease. It usually occurs when the spores of Bacillus anthracis make their way through the skin to cause cutaneous anthrax. Occasionally, the victim may inhale the spores leading to Inhalational anthrax - a much more sever form of the disease. Very rarely it can take a third form - Gastrointestinal anthrax which occurs after eating undercooked meat from infected cattle. Terrorists have made strains with increased stability in the air - meaning they have more chance to be inhaled and cause inhalational anthrax.

E.coli can be a problem in hospitals. Some strains can cause gastroenteritis/food poisoning as a result of poor hygiene or undercooking food, the 0157 strain mentioned earlier is particularly dangerous in this respect. It can cause a multitude of opportunistic infections in a hospital environment - pneumonia, UTIs, septicaemia, meningitis, osteomyelitis etc. This type of nosocomial infection usually targets only certain people ... neonates, the elderly, the immunosuppressed and the catheterised. It is the most common cause of UTIs in otherwise healthy people, especially women, outwith hospitals. Other than this E.coli are harmless inhabitants of the gut, making up a considerable part of the flora, they can even be beneficial as they produce Vitamin K and compete with other organisms.

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by jambo372
Lots of things could harbour germs in a hospital - not just bibles. In fact pathogenic micro-organisms probably would be unable to survive on a bible because it is holy.

Thank you. I now have a new sig.

I think the best way to deal with nosocomial infection would be as follows :

Have a unit especially built for patients with infections. Isolate all patients with Staphylococcal infections in special sanitary rooms. Also isolate patients with any contagious infection in these rooms. They should be locked. Any nurses or doctors who enter should wear gloves and mask and gown. Hands should be washed with disinfectant gels after leaving these rooms. Gowns should be frequently washed. Special equipment should be available to treat patients who would be in a normal ICU if they weren't infected.

I don't live in the UK, but this is already done in the U.S. All patients with infections diseases are kept in isolations rooms. Signs are posted on their closed doors and noone, including family, can enter without gowns, gloves and masks, all of which are disposable and are removed in the patient's room, just before exiting. None of these items are washed and reused.

Also, hands are to be washed immediately upon leaving the room or anti-bacterial handgel is available. Everyone is taught how to do this in their initial orientation and the infection control department provides ongoing monitoring on the unit and there is a yearly video and teaching which must be completed on handwashing and infection control.

Patients with respiratory infection should be locked in a room as above with no air-conditioning. Patients with enteric disease should have waste disposed of separately.

No air conditioning is ridiculous since where I live, the temperatures get up to 40 degrees Celsius in the Summer. I think that you mean that you want to keep airborne infectious diseases, such as TB, out of the air circulation. This is already done by keeping these patients in special rooms with reverse air flow. The doors to these rooms are kept shut and special masks are used when working with these patients. If they are removed from the room for tests or surgery, they have to wear special masks.

Patients with infectious diarrhea, c-diff, are kept in isolation rooms and their waste and bedclothes are treated as infected materials. Additional housekeeping with antibacterial agents and special procedures are used on all patient rooms for patients who were treated with infectious diseases.

All nurses and doctors should be screened for MRSA at least weekly. If they are found to be carriers they should be suspended and treated with anti-septic nasal ointment until their next swab is clear.

You will end up suspending most of your staff and then repeatedly suspending them. Anyone who works with patients for any significant amount of time is going to end up with MRSA colonized in their nostrils. Also, it take three days for MRSA cultures to grow, so you'll automatically be having people with MRSA working with patients, but testing negative for two days who actually have MRSA.

Bedclothes should be washed between patients.

I would really like to see your source for bedclothes not being washed in the UK. Stripping beds and washing down the mattesses is part of housekeeping 101.

Operating theatres should be spotless. No one with an infection should be allowed out of designated areas.

This is already done.

Drug susceptibility tests should be done as often as possible and the drug susceptibility of the most common bacteria should be reported to doctors to help them pick empirical therapy. Drug classes could be cycled and/or mixed to reduce resistance potential. Standard narrow spectrum agents should be used in preference to potent or broad spectrum agents whenever possible. Viral infection and trivial bacterial infection should not be treated with antibiotics.

People coming in with infections are tested to determine what their infections are and what drugs that infection is most likely to respond to. Broad spectrum antibiotics are commonly used initially because in some cases it takes several days for cultures to grow and it's not safe to let an infection become more established and dangerous. I agree that the overuse of antibiotics has led to the rise of so-called superbugs, but to not treat an infection because you're waiting for a culture could mean the difference between life and death for a patient.

Everybody should be vaccinated against Pneumococcal infection, not just the elderly, asthmatic and immunosuppressed.

This of course would be time consuming and expensive.

Yep. Not to mention the fact that we routinely have shortages of flu vaccine for those who are most in need to begin with.

In addition to this scientists should continue to look for new vaccines against these various infections. They should also look for more weak points in the bacterial cell in order to help synthesize new unique anti-microbial drugs with very low resistance inducing potential.

What makes you think this isn't being done?

I have been reading about the situation in the UK re: MRSA and I think that any attempt to improve infection control in hospitals is a good thing, but to think that you can eliminate MRSA altogether is, frankly, ridiculous.

As a p.s., most patients who are religious bring their own Bibles or other religious texts with them. I worked at a Catholic hospital and those who wanted a Bible were provided with one from a supply that was kept in the clergy office. And yes, all paper items are thrown out when the patient is discharged.

[jambo372]

Perpetual Notion
I know many of the measures are already in place.

Bedclothes are washed here but I've heard of a few cases in which they weren't. Same with operating theatres.

I know that sometimes broad-spectrum drugs or drug combinations are needed in severe infection where the causative organism isn't yet known eg meningitis, but whenever possible they should be avoided. eg If possible without risk to patient they shouldn't be treated with some fancy new broad-spectrum quinolone when plain penicillin would do just as well.

I acknowledge that you can't completely get rid of MRSA and other nosocomial infection but you can greatly reduce the spread.

[Francois Tremblay]

Bibles *are* breeding grounds for disease. Mental disease.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
Beady - what you said about using bed linen 5-6 times without washing it actually happens in hospitals believe it or not.

Assertions without corroboration are not evidence, especially when they come from someone known for their gullibility.

BTW, including military time, I've got over a decade's experience in hospitals work. How much do you have?

[BillyJoe]

I am lost for words, but then........(read my sig)

[valis]

Hey we are all critical thinkers here. We know the hospital tested the bibles and found germs and then made the decsicion to pull them.

After all people who aren't burdend by religion always act rationally.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
Assertions without corroboration are not evidence, especially when they come from someone known for their gullibility.

BTW, including military time, I've got over a decade's experience in hospitals work. How much do you have?

It wasn't meant to be evidence. I'm just saying I know it has happened on rare occasions in certain hospitals. I don't work in a hospital. Half of my family, male and female are nurses, many of several decades experience. I also have friends with relations who are highly experienced nurses. You learn a lot of horror stories about hospital hygiene when you know as many people like this. Not only this I've saw some of it with my own eyes.
Patronising little maggot.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
I'm just saying I know it has happened on rare occasions in certain hospitals.

Sigh.

"Rare occasions in certain hospitals." Does this call for a major overhaul? For that matter, does it call for a discussion?

[Bill Burke]

BTW, including military time, I've got over a decade's experience in hospitals work. How much do you have? [/B][/QUOTE]

Oh, yeah? Assertions without corroboration are not evidence. :)

[Beady]

Originally posted by Bill Burke
Oh, yeah? Assertions without corroboration are not evidence. :)

So what do you want, my DD-214?

[-42-]

Originally posted by Beady
Sigh.

"Rare occasions in certain hospitals." Does this call for a major overhaul? For that matter, does it call for a discussion?

"On Very Rare Occassions" nurses and health care providers attempt to murder their patients.
SOURCE: http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/S/SALISBURY_barbara.htm

[treble_head]

I feel bad that we have to be having this argument. I went through all the posts to be fair, and I regret doing so. This has become an argument amongst the germ-overly-aware, the germ-doesn't-care and the agnostics vs. the supporters.

Whatever happened to "I don't know" as an answer? I agree that the bibles in question may carry germs, but I still go to libraries and look at books, and even (horror of all horrors) check them out and read them. I may be exposed to the same diseases described. I doubt, however that, if a copy of Flim Flam were provided to patients, we would be having this argument.

I am more than willing to expose myself to viruses and bacteria on a regular basis. The more I am exposed to, and survive, the better I am adapted to survive. It's called life. The person who wraps their hands in tissue to open a door is just about as likely to get infected as the person who's concerned with leaving the bathroom with their bare hands, or from my observations of my hypochondriac friends, more likely, as they seem to miss work more often than I do.

I also don't think we would need to worry about "super-strains" of germs if we hadn't been so concerned with disifecting everything. That's why DDT doesn't work anymore. Give an organism a poison, they will die. Give a wide variety of organisms the same poisons, some will adapt. Simple evolution. As I say, merely my observation, and let the flames continue to rise, whilst we have bigger issues to deal with. Merely my thoughts.

[Beady]

Originally posted by -42-
"On Very Rare Occassions" nurses and health care providers attempt to murder their patients.
SOURCE: http://www.crimezzz.net/serialkillers/S/SALISBURY_barbara.htm

And...?

Do you have a point?

[Beady]

Originally posted by treble_head
This has become an argument amongst the germ-overly-aware, the germ-doesn't-care and the agnostics vs. the supporters.

Count me among the unconcerned. I've worked in hospitals and as a reporter and, whatever the threat, I know better than to panic. Trust me, routine care and hygiene are all that's necessary. And this coming global pandemic we've been hearing about? Yes, it's happened before and will probably happen again, but I'm going to lose about as much sleep over it as I will over the next catastrophic meteor strike. For pretty much the same reasons.

[-42-]

Originally posted by Beady
And...?

Do you have a point?

The point being it's utterly irrelevent.


Anyway. Everything in the hospital room is cleaned and/or sterlized, why is the bible special?

If some Christian group wants to supply every patient with a bible. It's a very easy matter.

Simply:

A) Provide every patient with a sealed (plastic) version. If it is opened they can take it with them. If it's left, and opened, it's disposed of. If it's left and unopened, the plastic is disinfected.

B) At a central location, provide the hospital with a box of bibles to be provided, upon request, to any patient. They can take it with them. If they leave it, it's disposed of.

[BillyJoe]

treble_head,

I am with you in spirit. :)

Originally posted by treble_head
I am more than willing to expose myself to viruses and bacteria on a regular basis. The more I am exposed to, and survive, the better I am adapted to survive. It's called life. And studies have shown that people who avoid germs in early life tend to develop allergies. The hypothesis is that their immune systems want to do something - if there are no germs to fight they'll busy themselves with allergens

Originally posted by treble_head
The person who wraps their hands in tissue to open a door is just about as likely to get infected as the person who's concerned with leaving the bathroom with their bare hands, or from my observations of my hypochondriac friends, more likely, as they seem to miss work more often than I do. Howard Hughes would be proud of them. :D
Yes, to think you are going to avoid anything serious by opening doors with tissues is just laughable - well, laughable if it wasn't so sad. There are more germs up your nose (let alone residing in your gut) than you are ever going to pick up from bathroom door-knobs.

Originally posted by treble_head
I also don't think we would need to worry about "super-strains" of germs if we hadn't been so concerned with disifecting everything. Yes. And, while we're at it, why are there such things as disinfectant household products? Who has ever proved that these products can prevent illness. There are germs everywhere but they are, almost all, completely harmless.

BillyJoe

[dann]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
And studies have shown that people who avoid germs in early life tend to develop allergies. The hypothesis is that their immune systems want to do something - if there are no germs to fight they'll busy themselves with allergens
The studies are not conclusive. A likelier reason would be the disinfectants used to clean private homes as well as offices. The prime suspects right now, from what I've heard, are phtalates (I still don't know how to spell it), PVC dust (from floors) and flame inhibiting chemicals based on bromine (in many electronic devices).
A few years ago I saw some interesting statistics comparing small villages in the north of Sweden with industrial towns in Poland. They found more allergics in Sweden than in Poland! I think that the development in Eastern Germany after it was united with West Germany and people got access to the chemicals used in the west pointed in the same direction.
But I could be wrong. I'm not a professional, but interested in the subject because I have a few allergies myself.

[Soapy Sam]

Yes. And, while we're at it, why are there such things as disinfectant household products? Who has ever proved that these products can prevent illness. There are germs everywhere but they are, almost all, completely harmless--billyJoe

True enough, but the one serious exception , as jambo points out, is precisely the group of people most likely to be patients in hospital- the sick, the elderly, the very young, who are together in close proximity in precisely the best place for drug resistant forms of those microbes to develop.

The problem about not washing your hands on leaving a hospital toilet is less what you might catch than what you might spread to persons already fighting for life.

And the people most likely to do this are the mobile ones- staff and visitors.

Staff- and particularly cleaners- are aware of this. How many relatives of iatrogenic MRSA cases ever stop to wonder if they themselves were the source? It's easier to blame the staff, the NHS, the government.

I don't know about bibles, or about hospitals elsewhere, but having recently been in two of the hospitals his family probably work in, I agree with jambo that there is scope for improvement.

[Beady]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
...but having recently been in two of the hospitals his family probably work in, I agree with jambo that there is scope for improvement.

Heh heh. jambo may wish that you hadn't phrased it quite that way. :)

Seriously, there's always room for improvement, and there's always one or two hospitals where it's really the pits, but that does not justify such overreactions as using toilet paper to protect yourself from doorhandles or, for that matter, removing bibles from hospital rooms (btw, germs generally can't survive more than 24 hours on a dry surface, so whoever follows me as a hospital patient is perfectly safe in handling the bible).

[Ririon]

Originally posted by dann
Cosmophilosopher, you are not by any chance the guy they based the character Niles Crane on, are you?

Why do almost all public bathrooms in Scotland have the following features:

1. Two taps placed well apart featuring scalding hot or freezing cold water. (Which means less than half of the people wash their hands because it actually hurts.)

2. Two doors swinging _inwards_ with sticky handles to pull to open them. (Just gross, especially considering point 1.)

These two items ar just plain wrong, yet popular in Scotland (and probably other places, too. There are many forum members from the UK, a people insisting that carpeting the bathroom at home is a good idea... Don't get me started...)

Ririon and Niles

[jambo372]

Yes of course using toilet paper to touch a doorknob is ridiculous as is scrubbing your whole house with disinfectant constantly. It will have a negative impact on the immune system.

However many areas in hospitals must be as clean as possible. Obviously touching a filthy doorknob with something like Staphylococci on it will probably be completely harmless. However if the unsanitary object was an operating table holding someone with massive wounds as opposed to a doorknob, this could be very dangerous. Would you agree to having an operation in a dirty theatre ?

Incidentally my Dad took septicaemia last year after having his left leg amputated. Luckily he survived - it was just a normal bug susceptible to standard drugs.

As for relatives blaming themselves for family members contracting MRSA - it's very unlikely they'd be the source. Many people carry Staphylococcus aureus but it generally is just a normal strain, not MRSA or ORSA as it's sometimes called.

As for public bathrooms ... they're minging. I never use them anyway.
Usually MRSA are only found in hospitals. Community acquired MRSA have only been encountered for 15 years or so and are still quite rare but their has been an increase in the number of cases of CA - MRSA in recent years. A particularly virulent strain of MRSA, the south west pacific clone, has recently caused outbreaks of infection in athletes with injuries, out side the hospital. CA - MRSA are generally easier to treat than nosocomial MRSA.

MRSA could soon become common in the community - originally Penicillin resistance was only seen in nosocomial Staphylococci. Nowadays just about all nosocomial Staph infections are Penicillin resistant and so are the vast majority of community acquired Staph infections. The trend could well repeat itself - this time with Methicillin. Due to it's toxicity and need to be given by injection, Methicillin itself is rarely if ever used anymore, however the drugs that replaced it work in an identical way and are chemically related, hence there is total cross resistance, Flucloxacillin is the standard modern equivalent. Strains resistant to Methicillin also tend to be resistant to several antibiotics, including all currently used Penicillin type drugs.

As for public bathrooms ... they're clatty, I never use them.
Only 3 types of people use them ...
1) The Insane
2) The Incontinent
3) The Mingers

[Soapy Sam]

jambo- Don't forget group four- People forced to wait four hours in the queue for "emergency" treatment in a hospital. (And we don't all have teenager's long range bladders).

My point about visitors transmitting bugs in hospital- we mostly all carry Staph.a, and you're right, it's less likely to be the resistant variety (at the moment), but there's a much higher chance that a visitor to a hospital can acquire mrsa (for example from that hospital toilet door ) and then transport it to the already ill person he came to visit.

Since I'm headed for investigative surgery at Wishaw in ten days, this is something I take seriously!

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by jambo372
As for public bathrooms ... they're clatty, I never use them.
Only 3 types of people use them ...
1) The Insane
2) The Incontinent
3) The Mingers Well, I use them, and I'm neither Insane nor Incontinent (sorry I don't know what a Minger is). Perhaps it's because I'm.......(read my sig)

:D

But, seriously, I do use them and I don't know anyone who doesn't. I don't use paper on the door-knobs, but I have to admit to using paper on the toilet seats and I don't know anyone who doesn't. I'm not sure why this is, but it's probably the same reason that I don't mind shaking hands with people I meet but would be hard put to agree to pressing our butts together.

BillyJoe

[Beady]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
...but I have to admit to using paper on the toilet seats and I don't know anyone who doesn't.

Now you do.

Maybe you should watch a certain episode of P&T's "BS2."

I'm not sure why this is, but it's probably the same reason that I don't mind shaking hands with people I meet but would be hard put to agree to pressing our butts together.

Sleep alone, do you?

[Solitaire]

Originally posted by treble_head
I am more than willing to expose myself to viruses and bacteria on a regular basis. The more I am exposed to, and survive, the better I am adapted to survive. It's called life. The person who wraps their hands in tissue to open a door is just about as likely to get infected as the person who's concerned with leaving the bathroom with their bare hands, or from my observations of my hypochondriac friends, more likely, as they seem to miss work more often than I do.

Hm. A subscriber to the hypothesis: what doesn't kill me makes me stronger.
:p

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
jambo- Don't forget group four- People forced to wait four hours in the queue for "emergency" treatment in a hospital. (And we don't all have teenager's long range bladders).

My point about visitors transmitting bugs in hospital- we mostly all carry Staph.a, and you're right, it's less likely to be the resistant variety (at the moment), but there's a much higher chance that a visitor to a hospital can acquire mrsa (for example from that hospital toilet door ) and then transport it to the already ill person he came to visit.

Since I'm headed for investigative surgery at Wishaw in ten days, this is something I take seriously!

If the hospital was so saturated with MRSA the patient would probably end up getting it on their own hands anyway.

Personally if I was in hospital, I'd be more worried about getting a VREF infection. VREF are sometimes resistant to every drug and can cause fatal septicaemia and endocarditis. It is less virulent and less common than MRSA but typically more resistant.

New strains of MRSA are also occuring in hospitals GISA/VISA and VRSA/GRSA. They sometimes need experimental drugs as they have become at least partly resistant to Vancomycin ( sometimes the only drug effective against nosocomial Staph aureus infection ). Some strains of Staphylococci that are even resistant to these new drugs have also been reported.

Then there are gram negative superbugs: Pseudomonas aeruginosa, Acinetobacter, Klebsiella, Enterobacter etc. You may never survive your surgery. What surgery are you getting anyway ?

[Kopji]

Surely the good that Bibles do outweigh whatever small risk they carry of disease? :p

We sometimes have Book of Mormons in our hospital rooms too. So there's twice the potential for disease.

Do hospitals allow other books into the rooms? How about things like TV guides?

[Perpetual Notion]

At all the hospitals I've worked at, people can have whatever reading materials they want. If they leave them behind, they're generally given away for free to whoever wants them or, if the person was in isolation, it's thrown out as contaminated. Infectious diseases are taken very seriously and the types of infections that Jambo is talking about are, with the exception of MRSA, not that common. Even with MRSA, I probably only have about 1-2 cases a month on my floor and in a months time, I'll have more than 200 patients rotate through. MRSA tends to be localized to a wound and I can count on one hand the number of people who have had MRSA in their lungs in the 16 years I've been working in hospitals. I've only seen one case of VRSA.

I tend to see a lot of people coming from nursing homes with these types of infections because they're not always aware that patients are infected until the patient has been hospitalized and diagnosed.

You may never survive your surgery. What surgery are you getting anyway ?

Dont' worry Jambo, I heard he's going to a healing circle first. :)

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by Beady
Now you do.I meant public toilet seats.

Originally posted by Beady
Maybe you should watch a certain episode of P&T's "BS2." :con2:

Originally posted by Beady
Sleep alone, do you? By "people I meet" I mean "people who I don't know but who I meet for the first time".

BJ

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
At all the hospitals I've worked at, people can have whatever reading materials they want. If they leave them behind, they're generally given away for free to whoever wants them or, if the person was in isolation, it's thrown out as contaminated. Infectious diseases are taken very seriously and the types of infections that Jambo is talking about are, with the exception of MRSA, not that common. Even with MRSA, I probably only have about 1-2 cases a month on my floor and in a months time, I'll have more than 200 patients rotate through. MRSA tends to be localized to a wound and I can count on one hand the number of people who have had MRSA in their lungs in the 16 years I've been working in hospitals. I've only seen one case of VRSA.

I tend to see a lot of people coming from nursing homes with these types of infections because they're not always aware that patients are infected until the patient has been hospitalized and diagnosed.



Dont' worry Jambo, I heard he's going to a healing circle first. :)

Yes I admit they are rare, but they MAY occur. Most of the ones I mentioned mostly infect only certain people eg children, pensioners, people with cancer/other infections, people taking immunosuppressants/steroids/chemotherapy/certain anti-microbials, alcholics and catheterised patients. In the case of Enterobacter, some clinicians have noticed a steady increase in the number of cases. It is highly resistant to even some of the most potent drugs and is prone to developing resistance to certain drugs during treatment, even if they initially test as sensitive. VREF are quite rare but cause a significant proportion of all invasive Enterococcal infections in some large city hospitals in the US and Japan.

MRSA is usually confined to lesions but can spread anywhere. Staphylococcus aureus can actually infect just about any organ. It can cause all of the following things, some common and some rare :

boils, cellulitis, impetigo, paronychia, bacteraemia/septicaemia, ear infections, osteomyelitis, endocarditis, meningitis, bronchitis/pneumonia, enterocolitis, food poisoning, UTI, Toxic Shock Syndrome, several pyogenic infections

Also, scientists have found far fewer new classes of naturally occuring drugs that have been approved for medical use over the last 2 decades or so. Most of the anti-microbials used today have came from the same genera - the actinomycetes.

They are currently researching potential MRSA vaccines, genetic engineering, new drugs & nanotubes against MRSA.
They are also researching bacteriacidal viruses which have been used in Russian hospitals with success for decades.

[dann]

Originally posted by treble_head
The more I am exposed to, and survive, the better I am adapted to survive. It's called life. The more you are exposed to, and don't survive, the better you are adapted to ...
It's called death.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
Yes I admit they are rare, but they MAY occur.

Jambo, do you realize how many calamities you could say this about?

If you're going to ever get anything done, then you have to quit trying to stack the deck and just play the cards you're dealt.

[Beady]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I meant public toilet seats.

:con2:

So did I.

The reference to Penn & Teller was an episode in Season 2, where they deal with public toilet seats, and the like. Bottom line, you're perfectly safe, and don't need those paper seat covers.

By "people I meet" I mean "people who I don't know but who I meet for the first time".

That's kind of what I meant.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
Jambo, do you realize how many calamities you could say this about?

If you're going to ever get anything done, then you have to quit trying to stack the deck and just play the cards you're dealt.

They are rare superbugs but not so much so that the risk is extremely negligible. It's better safe than sorry.. I've had an infection in my chest for weeks now, I've been wheezing, sweating and coughing up loads of thick stringy greenish yellow phlegm. I've been taking a cough bottle but haven't noticed a difference. I got tablets yesterday but decided to leave them alone for a few days and take them if I'm not improving by then. My cousin has something similar and is taking a different tablet but doesn't feel it's helping. If you can get an infection like this without setting foot in a hospital what would it be like otherwise ?

About public toilet seats ... as I've mentioned previously I never use them. Didn't somebody put superglue on a public toilet seat once and it ended up taking an operation to get it off someone's arse ?

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
I got tablets yesterday but decided to leave them alone for a few days and take them if I'm not improving by then. If you can get an infection like this without setting foot in a hospital what would it be like otherwise ?

If you've got an upper respiratory infection, you need to take antibiotics, not look at them on the table. For someone who claims to be so cautious about germs, you seem to be pretty cavalier about combating active disease. Remember, it was a common URI that killed Jim Henson in three days.

About public toilet seats ... as I've mentioned previously I never use them. Didn't somebody put superglue on a public toilet seat once and it ended up taking an operation to get it off someone's arse ?

You don't want to take antibiotics to fight a weeks-old active URI that has you "wheezing, sweating and coughing up loads of thick stringy greenish yellow phlegm," but you'd rather pee your pants than use public restrooms, so you can avoid a one-in-a-million chance that you'll fall victim to a prank.

I'm sorry, but your sense of logic entirely escapes me.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
If you've got an upper respiratory infection, you need to take antibiotics, not look at them on the table. For someone who claims to be so cautious about germs, you seem to be pretty cavalier about combating active disease. Remember, it was a common URI that killed Jim Henson in three days.

[B]

You don't want to take antibiotics to fight a weeks-old active URI that has you "wheezing, sweating and coughing up loads of thick stringy greenish yellow phlegm," but you'd rather pee your pants than use public restrooms, so you can avoid a one-in-a-million chance that you'll fall victim to a prank.

I'm sorry, but your sense of logic entirely escapes me.

I said I'd take my pills if I didn't get better in a few days. A few days will hardly make a difference. I'm not sweating constantly, just a bit more than usual when I've been walking a lot or wearing a jacket. They haven't helped my cousin much ... of course she probably says she has the same trouble as me and actually has a cold and it was a different medication they gave her anyway.

I would use a public bathroom if it was clean and I was about to pish myself. I just avoid them whenever possible.

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by dann
The more you are exposed to, and don't survive, the better you are adapted to ...
It's called death. dann, you are missing the point. :(

[BillyJoe]

Beady,

Originally posted by Beady
The reference to Penn & Teller was an episode in Season 2, where they deal with public toilet seats, and the like. Bottom line, you're perfectly safe, and don't need those paper seat covers. Yes, I understand. I am not always entirely logical in my actions. Placing paper on toilet seats is for me an emotional rather than a rational thing to do. As I said there are more bugs up your nose and in your gut.

BillyJoe

[BillyJoe]

jambo

Originally posted by jambo372
I've been taking a cough bottle but haven't noticed a difference. All through you've been sounding like an expert teaching us all about bacteria and antibiotic resistance and then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, we get from you this average joe knee-jerk reaction to a respiratory infection - get a bottle of cough mixture! :confused:

billyjoe

[jambo372]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
jambo

All through you've been sounding like an expert teaching us all about bacteria and antibiotic resistance and then, all of a sudden, out of the blue, we get from you this average joe knee-jerk reaction to a respiratory infection - get a bottle of cough mixture! :confused:

billyjoe

I never said I was an expert. I'm just interested in medical microbiology and infection. There's nothing wrong with taking a cough bottle for a chest infection ( as long as it has no suppressants such as codeine in it ). I also tried inhaling steam from a bowl of boiling water and menthol crystals. The doctor gave me Oxytetracycline the otherday but I've only started taking them this afternoon because I had decided to leave it a few days and take it if I still wasn't better. It's better to give your immune system a chance to do it's own dirty work ... of course to be fair I had been coughing up thick gunk for about 3 weeks and had been wheezing for a week.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
I said I'd take my pills if I didn't get better in a few days. A few days will hardly make a difference.

What's the point in waiting? Do you win a prize if you can hold out a certain number amount of time without either dying or taking a pill? Does it somehow increase your virtue?

Seriously, what's the point?

I would use a public bathroom if it was clean and I was about to pish myself. I just avoid them whenever possible.

So... When you said you *never* use them...?

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
It's better to give your immune system a chance to do it's own dirty work ... of course to be fair I had been coughing up thick gunk for about 3 weeks and had been wheezing for a week.

Oh, now I see. If you're not dead or mending in three weeks, try modern medicine.

I'm convinced.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
Oh, now I see. If you're not dead or mending in three weeks, try modern medicine.

I'm convinced.

It's hardly likely I was going to die, I just had a bad persistent chest infection. If I thought I was dying I'd have gone to hospital.

And it didn't take me 3 weeks to try modern medicine ... I took a cough bottle ( containing Guafenesin ). What's wrong with giving your body the chance to fight an infection ? Anyway I said I've started taking the Oxytetracycline pills today.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
It's hardly likely I was going to die, I just had a bad persistent chest infection.

So, in this one thread, "wheezing, sweating and coughing up loads of thick stringy greenish yellow phlegm," has become "a bad persistent chest infection."

And, "I never use them (public restrooms) anyway," has become "I just avoid them whenever possible."

And "...using bed linen 5-6 times without washing it actually happens in hospitals believe it or not" has become "...it has happened on rare occasions in certain hospitals."

A pattern is beginning to emerge. Instead of "Jambo," maybe you should be called "Chicken Little."

What's wrong with giving your body the chance to fight an infection ?

What's wrong with giving it some help? And I don't mean cough syrup; cough syrup is plainly inadequate for a URI requiring an antibiotic.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
So, in this one thread, "wheezing, sweating and coughing up loads of thick stringy greenish yellow phlegm," has become "a bad persistent chest infection."

And, "I never use them (public restrooms) anyway," has become "I just avoid them whenever possible."

And "...using bed linen 5-6 times without washing it actually happens in hospitals believe it or not" has become "...it has happened on rare occasions in certain hospitals."

A pattern is beginning to emerge. Instead of "Jambo," maybe you should be called "Chicken Little."

[B]

What's wrong with giving it some help? And I don't mean cough syrup; cough syrup is plainly inadequate for a URI requiring an antibiotic.

A bad persistent chest infection, coughing up lots of greenish yellow phlegm for weeks, wheezing and sweating. As far as I'm concerned it's the same thing.

When I say I never use public toilets anyway ... I never do anyway. I avoid them whenever possible ... same thing. I've always found them possible to avoid.

Using bed linen 5-6 times actually happens in some hospitals believe it or not. It has happened on rare occasions in certain hospitals. What's the difference ? I was just being more specific the second time.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by jambo372
It's hardly likely I was going to die, I just had a bad persistent chest infection. If I thought I was dying I'd have gone to hospital.


You should consider the sad demise of Jim Henson, creator of the Muppets. He thought he had a case of the flu, when in fact he'd contracted bacterial pneumonia. If he'd gone to the doctor or hospital instead of trying to treat it himself, he would have survived a completely curable infection.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jmercer
You should consider the sad demise of Jim Henson, creator of the Muppets.

I mentioned that, a few posts ago. Near as I can tell, it bounced right off Jambo (that seems to happen a lot). Hope you can make more of an impression than I did.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
A bad persistent chest infection, coughing up lots of greenish yellow phlegm for weeks, wheezing and sweating. As far as I'm concerned it's the same thing.

I can only imagine that there are a lot of people with respiratory problems who are glad you're not a doctor.

When I say I never use public toilets anyway ... I never do anyway. I avoid them whenever possible ... same thing. I've always found them possible to avoid.

Jambo, there is a substantial difference between "never" and "whenever possible." Really. Look it up. For the record, public restrooms aren't my favorite places, either, and I've been known to show major intestinal fortitude in holding out until I can either get home or get to one that I know from past experience is reasonably clean (usually in a book store -- people who read also seem to respect the need for clean toilets).

However, I will maintain that *no one* "never" uses public restrooms. It's physically impossible. If nothing else, on average a normal man needs to pee at least every four hours; if you're away from home for five or more hours...

I have this image of you wandering around a shopping mall, wearing a tournequit and a cork.

Using bed linen 5-6 times actually happens in some hospitals believe it or not. It has happened on rare occasions in certain hospitals. What's the difference? I was just being more specific the second time.

The difference is the same as between a common and a rare occurance. The two are entirely different. You weren't merely being more precise, you were being self-contradictory. It's also possible to argue that your first version was a misrepresentation.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
I can only imagine that there are a lot of people with respiratory problems who are glad you're not a doctor.

[B]

Jambo, there is a substantial difference between "never" and "whenever possible." Really. Look it up. For the record, public restrooms aren't my favorite places, either, and I've been known to show major intestinal fortitude in holding out until I can either get home or get to one that I know from past experience is reasonably clean (usually in a book store -- people who read also seem to respect the need for clean toilets).

However, I will maintain that *no one* "never" uses public restrooms. It's physically impossible. If nothing else, on average a normal man needs to pee at least every four hours; if you're away from home for five or more hours...

I have this image of you wandering around a shopping mall, wearing a tournequit and a cork.

[B]

The difference is the same as between a common and a rare occurance. The two are entirely different. You weren't merely being more precise, you were being self-contradictory. It's also possible to argue that your first version was a misrepresentation.

The receptionist in the doctors said it was a chest infection. The most common explanation for such symptoms is acute bronchitis.

If I'm so desperate I pee behind bushes or trees, or up a close.

I said SOME hospitals. SOME hospitals could mean anything ... 2 hospitals ... dozens of hospitals, most hospitals.

Jim Henson had pneumonia ... I don't. I've had the same thing before and I got better. Why do you keep telling me this anyway ... I told you I'm on antibiotics.

[Soapy Sam]

Jambo- Did this mystery infection start before or after your urine drinking experiments? Did you mention same to the doctor at all?

Just idle curiosity.

In my case they plan to shove a camera up where the sun don't shine. What follows depends on what they find. I suspect it's mice myself.

I'm just hoping it's not the same camera they shoved down from the top last time I was in hospital. It was kind of big...

At least I hope they wash it before and afterwards...
(Wire brush and dettol...):D

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
Jambo- Did this mystery infection start before or after your urine drinking experiments? Did you mention same to the doctor at all?

Just idle curiosity.

In my case they plan to shove a camera up where the sun don't shine. What follows depends on what they find. I suspect it's mice myself.

I'm just hoping it's not the same camera they shoved down from the top last time I was in hospital. It was kind of big...

At least I hope they wash it before and afterwards...
(Wire brush and dettol...):D

No, it didn't start after drinking pish.

I was just coughing up thick greeny yellow phlegm for weeks and then I started wheezing and doing a bit of sweating. I had went through a cough bottle but didn't feel better. My mum phoned the doctor's surgery and told the receptionist my symptoms and personal details ( I hadn't drank pish for quite a while). She said it sounded like a chest infection and she'd ask the doctor if he could get a prescription put in the chemists for me ( I never actually saw the doctor in person ). They gave me the tablets on Tuesday but I only started taking them yesterday not only because I thought it might start to clear in a few days anyway but because I thought it might make me sick ( The pill bottle says to take it on an empty stomach ). I'm starting to feel a slight bit better now, I'm still coughing phlegm but not as much and the wheezing is just starting to clear.

Hope your operation goes allright. You've been watching Billy Connolly haven't you ?

[jmercer]

Originally posted by Beady
I mentioned that, a few posts ago. Near as I can tell, it bounced right off Jambo (that seems to happen a lot). Hope you can make more of an impression than I did.

Oops, sorry - I simply missed it. However, I suspect that the only way to make an impression on Jambo would be with a rather large hammer. :)

[BillyJoe]

Well, I don't know about youse guys, but I can remember only ever taking antibiotics once in my life. That was when my testicles swelled to twice their usual size. I thought I'd better do something about that little problem before it was too late.

:D

BillyJoe

[Beady]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
That was when my testicles swelled to twice their usual size.

I've had that, too! For those not in the know, this particular condition is named (wait for it!):

Orchidosis. That is, a condition of the orchids.

Seriously!

I was on antibiotics for a couple of weeks, and bedrest for the first three or four days until the swelling started to go down. While I was sick at home, the wife had to go to the drugstore (aka chemist) to buy me a special support. It was like a jock strap, but it only held the, err, jewels. I had to wear it whenever I was out of bed for the rest of the period, and it was kind of embarrasing, since the way it supported the scrotum made Harvey sort of stick out to the front. Even with pants on, it was sort of obvious. Goint to work was real fun, especially since I was in the military at the time.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
I've had that, too! For those not in the know, this particular condition is named (wait for it!):

Orchidosis. That is, a condition of the orchids.

Seriously!

I was on antibiotics for a couple of weeks, and bedrest for the first three or four days until the swelling started to go down. While I was sick at home, the wife had to go to the drugstore (aka chemist) to buy me a special support. It was like a jock strap, but it only held the, err, jewels. I had to wear it whenever I was out of bed for the rest of the period, and it was kind of embarrasing, since the way it supported the scrotum made Harvey sort of stick out to the front. Even with pants on, it was sort of obvious. Goint to work was real fun, especially since I was in the military at the time.

I thought that was called orchitis, usually secondary to a viral infection (mumps) or a bacterial infection ( the clap, NSU, epididymitis, UTIs etc ). If connected with epididymitis it is known as epididymo-orchitis. It sounds painful anyway.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
I thought that was called orchitis

Whatever. It was ~25 years ago. Hopefully, a once-in-a-lifetime experience.

Edit: I absolutely refuse to ask why Jambo knows so much about a condition he doesn't claim to have had. I also refuse to ask how many other conditions/diseases that he's also never had, yet concerning which he has an abnormal amount of knowledge. I further refuse to ask why.

[Radwaste]

I'm surprised no one has pointed out that the contents of the Bible have caused more misery than anything on its cover.

There you have it.

[dann]

Don't be surprised. Somebody did!
Originally posted by Francois Tremblay
Bibles *are* breeding grounds for disease. Mental disease.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Well, I don't know about youse guys, but I can remember only ever taking antibiotics once in my life. That was when my testicles swelled to twice their usual size. I thought I'd better do something about that little problem before it was too late.

:D

BillyJoe

I remember taking them as well a few times.

I'm taking them just now for my chest infection or 'URI' as Beady insists on calling it. I also took a different one before for the same reasons. I only remember taking them one other time ... I had a whitlow for weeks, I had put antiseptic cream and a plaster on it but it wouldn't go away and started to form an abcess.

I try to avoid taking them where I see practical ... it reduces your chances of side effects, allergy and superinfection.

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by jambo372
I remember taking them as well a few times. Good. I wouldn't have wanted your testicles to have shrunken away to nothing. :)

BJ

[jambo372]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Good. I wouldn't have wanted your testicles to have shrunken away to nothing. :)

BJ

Not for orchitis.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
I'm taking them just now for my chest infection or 'URI' as Beady insists on calling it.

Standard medical terminology: Upper Respiratory Infection. It can mean just about anything you want it to, it's more verbal shorthand than anything else.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
Standard medical terminology: Upper Respiratory Infection. It can mean just about anything you want it to, it's more verbal shorthand than anything else.

I know what it stands for. I've just always called acute bronchitis a chest infection.

[Gr8wight]

Originally posted by jambo372
I know what it stands for. I've just always called acute bronchitis a chest infection.

O for the love of all that's tiny and smells good! Tomayto-Tomahto. Find something important to argue about. Like chest hair.

[BillyJoe]

I would have thought bronchitis (or pneumonia) was a lower respiratory infection. :cool:

[Beady]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I would have thought bronchitis (or pneumonia) was a lower respiratory infection. :cool:

I'm pretty sure you're right. I think I've been using URI for so long now that I use it without thinking.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I would have thought bronchitis (or pneumonia) was a lower respiratory infection. :cool:

Yes, so it is. Pharyngitis and Sinusitis are URIs. Beady said I had a URI earlier and was checking me for calling it a ' bad chest infection'. Turns out my terminology was right after all.
As I've said before, I generally just call bronchitis, pneumonia and other lower respiratory tract infections chest infections to avoid confusion.

[Beady]

Originally posted by jambo372
Yes, so it is. Pharyngitis and Sinusitis are URIs. Beady said I had a URI earlier and was checking me for calling it a ' bad chest infection'. Turns out my terminology was right after all.

No. Mine was wrong, but that doesn't mean yours was right. I still think you were either trivialising or exagerating your illness (depending on which particular statement of yours we're talking about).

[jambo372]

Originally posted by Beady
No. Mine was wrong, but that doesn't mean yours was right. I still think you were either trivialising or exagerating your illness (depending on which particular statement of yours we're talking about).

But it was right. Bronchitis and pneumonia can be called chest infections for simplicity. Lower Respiratory Infection is just the fancy medical jargon for it. The same thing could also be said for certain URIs eg most people would just call Pharyngitis a throat infection for simplicity.

I wasn't exaggerating or trivialising it.

I said I was coughing up thick greenish yellow phlegm for weeks and had started sweating and wheezing. The receptionist in the doctor's said it was a chest infection.

[BillyJoe]

Jambo,

Does that receptionist ever let you see the doctor.
If you die, do you sue the receptionist? :D

BillyJoe.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Jambo,

Does that receptionist ever let you see the doctor.
If you die, do you sue the receptionist? :D

BillyJoe.

I didn't go to the doctor's surgery. My mum phoned up and asked if I could get a prescription. She told the doctor and he sent a prescription down to the chemist.

I'm getting better now anyway and I've only a few more days of tablets to take, they must be working.

If I was dead i couldn't sue the receptionist.

[BillyJoe]

Your doctor writes out prescriptions for antibiotics without seeing you?
What if you needed to be in hospital and you died overnight?
How would he defend that in court?

BJ
(you don't need to answer, I'm just wondering out aloud)

[DrMatt]

The scriptures of MY religion are only holy when they are printed on crepes and left out long enough to develop a fuzzy green mold growing on them. I demand the right to have MY holy book in the hospital.

Oh, and I also demand the right to have the holy bottle of kerosene with me.

Let's raise an uproar about it.

[jambo372]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Your doctor writes out prescriptions for antibiotics without seeing you?
What if you needed to be in hospital and you died overnight?
How would he defend that in court?

BJ
(you don't need to answer, I'm just wondering out aloud)

Precisely - I'd be dead and couldn't die.

I don't like having to take antibiotics because I'm scared I get a superbug.

The second problem I have with antibiotics is that if I have a bacterial infection requiring an antibiotic, I need Tetracyclines or Trimethoprim because I'm allergic to Penicillins and Cephalosporins and Erythromycin makes me violently sick. I'm too young to take Fluoroquinolones. So it's nearly always one of the Tetracyclines the doctor gives me because there's not many other antibiotics available orally that I can take.

[epepke]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I would have thought bronchitis (or pneumonia) was a lower respiratory infection. :cool:

It's a lower respiratory inflammation. Maybe an infection, maybe not.

[BillyJoe]

Originally posted by epepke
It's a lower respiratory inflammation. Maybe an infection, maybe not. You are correct, of course. For example, chronic bronchitis caused by the irrititant effects of cigarette smoke is an inflammation rather than an infection.

BJ

[BillyJoe]

jambo,

Originally posted by jambo372
Precisely - I'd be dead and couldn't die. You might be dead, but your loved ones might sue in your stead. ;)

Originally posted by jambo372
I don't like having to take antibiotics because I'm scared I get a superbug. You might help create superbugs if you don't complete the course of antibiotics or if you take broard spectrum antiobiotics when a narrow spectrum antibiotic would do. But it wouldn't effect you at the time of taking the antibiotic, although it might come back and bite your later after it's resistance had been amplified by others doing the same thing.

Originally posted by jambo372
The second problem I have with antibiotics is that if I have a bacterial infection requiring an antibiotic, I need Tetracyclines or Trimethoprim because I'm allergic to Penicillins and Cephalosporins and Erythromycin makes me violently sick. I'm too young to take Fluoroquinolones. So it's nearly always one of the Tetracyclines the doctor gives me because there's not many other antibiotics available orally that I can take. What is the age restriction on Fluoroquinolones? And I hope you are older than 13 (sorry, I can't tell :D - only joking!), because the tetracyclines can stain your teeth and bones. :(

BJ

[jambo372]

The suffix 'itis' on the name of a disease means inflammation.

If I was dead I couldn't spend the money.

I'm over 13 anyway. The age restriction on the drugs is 18 I think - although they are sometimes prescribed for children with potentially fatal infections such as Ps aeruginosa of the lung in cystic fibrosis victims or in multi-resistant typhoid.

[daenku32]

According to Arthur Weinreb:
The banning of the bible was nothing more than religious intolerance of Christians.
See. PROOF POSITIVE that hospitals are evil! No wonder people die. Demons (they cause all our diseases) are incarnating multiplying in these place of secular medicine!
http://www.torontofreepress.com/2005/weinreb052005.htm

Oh and asking you to bring your own bible is akin to keeping black folk from riding on the bus! Yay!






(someone please restore my sanity and do it quick!)