Penta Water

[nemo]

I recently walked into my local Whole Foods Market and came upon a large display of Penta Water. I recalled how thoroughly their claims were discredited here and was disappointed to say the least that it had made its way onto the shelves here. I read this week's commentary and felt obligated to email Whole Foods and tell them how I felt and that I would not shop at their stores until they removed Penta Water from their shelves. I would like to encourage anyone else to write them and do the same at www.wholefoods.com

[Skipbidder]

The Whole Foods stores by me sell homeopathic "remedies". I've already stopped shopping there. (They used to sell ear candles as well, but I think that they've stopped that.)

[tracer]

Heck, Penta Water even showed up in an episode of Food Network's Unwrapped.

(Not, unfortunately, as something to be debunked -- the show basically parroted all of Penta Water's claims uncritically.)

[FatBat]

In the latest issue of the UK's second-best magazine on health and fitness for men, "Men's Fitness", top sprinter Darren Campbell waxes on his training and nutrition regime. He says he uses Penta Water as it hydrates the body three times quicker than normal water. Ho hum. I'd like to see the evidence. The same issue also claims that cycle helmets can keep your brains inside your head in the event of a crash. Something else I'd like to see the evidence for!

[Thumbo]

ASA adjudicaton here:

http://www.asa.org.uk/asa/adjudications/Adjudication+Details.htm?adjudication_id=39409

[daenku32]

They also sell it in Kroger (major grocery store) here in Indiana. At $40 for a case it seems outrageously expensive. I wonder how much of it they even sell.

[to.by]

Originally posted by FatBat
.......The same issue also claims that cycle helmets can keep your brains inside your head in the event of a crash. Something else I'd like to see the evidence for!

Well I thought that was what bicycle helmets was supposed to do.

[Beckett]

Folks, I'm going to let you in on a little secret: I work in a health food store. I can also tell you that cases of Penta sell rather well, unfortunately. Another similar product called O2 Aqua sells extremely well also despite that it's name alone is already misleading. H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide, no longer water and shouldn't be taken internally from my limited understanding. On top of this, they can't even get the math right. On the label it says "our pure water is enriched with up to 700% more oxygen than regular bottled water". Wouldn't this be the equivalent of H2O7 or something? Of course, I'm sure the product is still just water and sells because people who can easily afford it, don't care to question the claims, unlike lower/middle class folks like myself who must be cautious about where we put our money.

The store I'm employed at also sells quackery such as homeopathetic stuff and ear candles. And in case you're wondering, if a customer asks me if these items are effective, I do tell them no and direct them to this website or quackwatch.org. Keep in mind, it's so much easier to approach me with this question when there aren't any other employees present. :p Unfortunately, two of those I've informed apparently didn't listen to me. One approached me at a later date asking for a case of Penta water (which I told them earlier was a waste of money), another (tall, extremely attractive young woman) apparently decided to try out the ear candles she purchased along with at least two of her friends (despite my warning them not to).

I justify my working in a health food store in knowing that it pleases those who feel left out in not being able to enjoy a certain food others take for granted because it contains something for which they are allergic or must simply avoid due to their health. Health food stores can offer a lot of alternatives or substitutes to these unfortunate many. I'm also not convinced that conventional produce is safe, or at least, safer than organic produce, but, hey, I realize this belief might fall into the minority here.

Getting back to Penta, I make the argument that if you want purified water, even distilled water, you can purchase it by the gallon for less than the cost of 16 oz. of Penta, and you get this without the BS claims.

I would love for the store I work for to stop carrying Penta water, along with ear candles and homeopathic water but short of the FDA stepping in to seize these products, I don't see this happening anytime soon. This stuff - even the freaking ear candles! - sell far too well and don't have enough negative publicity surrounding them to sway customers into staying away.

[BillyJoe]

Beckett ,

Originally posted by Beckett
Another similar product called O2 Aqua sells extremely well also despite that it's name alone is already misleading. H2O2 is hydrogen peroxide, no longer water and shouldn't be taken internally from my limited understanding. On top of this, they can't even get the math right. On the label it says "our pure water is enriched with up to 700% more oxygen than regular bottled water". Wouldn't this be the equivalent of H2O7 or something? By O2 Aqua, I think they mean O2 + H20, or oxygen + aqua (water). They are talking about oxygen dissolved in water rather than oxygen chemically combined with water. In other words there is 7 times more O2 dissolved in their H2O then in regular bottled H2O.

BJ

[Beckett]

By O2 Aqua, I think they mean O2 + H20, or oxygen + aqua (water). They are talking about oxygen dissolved in water rather than oxygen chemically combined with water. In other words there is 7 times more O2 dissolved in their H2O then in regular bottled H2O.

Now that makes sense. Granted, I had to look up more information to understand everything you said, but I got it. Thanks and mea culpa as Randi would say. I hadn't even considered that oxygen was actually capable of mixing in with water without affecting its structure chemically. I may have learned this in school, or through Mr. Wizard, perhaps even Bill Nye, but I certainly didn't remember it if I had. I also never really considered what would happen environmentally were fish forced to seperate oxygen from their surrounding water, leaving hydrogen left over. They don't need to since they're actually obtaining the oxygen another way. I feel edjumicated. Thanks.

My apologies to Ice Down, makers of O2 Aqua for my misunderstanding. I suppose this is something equivalent to the oxygen bars that received some publicity a few years ago or so.

[BillyJoe]

Beckett,

Originally posted by Beckett
My apologies to Ice Down, makers of O2 Aqua for my misunderstanding.I wasn't intending to support the product by explaining what the product actually is. Having 7 times as much O2 dissolved in the H2O that you drink is not going to make a scrap of difference to your body's O2 supply. We get all our O2 by breathing it in through our lungs.

BJ

[Beckett]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Beckett,

I wasn't intending to support the product by explaining what the product actually is. Having 7 times as much O2 dissolved in the H2O that you drink is not going to make a scrap of difference to your body's O2 supply. We get all our O2 by breathing it in through our lungs.

BJ

First let me say that I've figured out how to quote someone correctly. Secondly, I wasn't intending to support the product nor its claim either. However, I felt it was necessary to apologise to the makers of O2 Aqua for my error which lead me to believe their product was purposely deceptive. Here and now, I don't know if this is the case and am apologising only for the error I've made and for my comment that comes across as an indirect accusation based on this alone. I still had a doubt that the product actually works, but I chose not to offer a gut feeling response because I hate those. It implies that there really is something wrong when I honestly don't know (I could be wrong) and don't have a better scientific understanding or evidence to back it up. For this reason I believe gut feelings are useless and if one were to have them they should contact a gastrologist.

You have offered me some information to examine Ice Down's claim, so I thank you for that. :)

I apologise, nemo, for derailing this thread somewhat. To bring it back on track I think we were discussing Salma Hayek and posting revealing pics of her here... or not.

[FatBat]

Originally posted by to.by
Well I thought that was what bicycle helmets was supposed to do.
The evidence that cycle helmets are any use whatsoever in crashes that would otherwise be fatal (ones in which your brains would fall out of your hear) is about as convincing as that proferred in support of homeopathy.

The usual technique is so compare two completely different groups of cyclists, looking at small groups so the number of crashes is tiny, then deduce that the differences in slight injury rates between the two groups can be explained by cycle helmet use and this difference can be extrapolated d to apply to serious head injuries and even fatalities.

Using the techniques of some helmet researchers, you can "prove" that cycle helmets prevent leg injuries and that they protected people that are not wearing them!

[Psiload]

Sad story... I was out for my nightly jog last night when I noticed a bunch of empy Penta Water containers in my neighbor's recycling bin. Now for the really sad part of the story... my neighbor is a physicist on the team that runs the RHIC(Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider), a particle accelerator at the Brookhaven National Lab on Long Island.

I'm just hoping that his wife bought the water, and he's unaware of the B.S. claims Penta makes. Should I say something to him?

[BillyJoe]

I think you should make him watch as you tear strips off his wife. ;)

[Ririon]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
I think you should make him watch as you tear strips off his wife. ;)

I think you are jumping to conclusions. Not every woman that drinks Penta Water has hairy legs. And her neighbours should stay away from waxing them, anyway!

...or are you saying that women who marry physicists in general need waxing?

I'm a physicist, and if my significant other was into some BS like this, I would want to know. Excellent topic to start a fight over. And then make-up sex and a cool drink of water...

Ririon

[BillyJoe]

Ririon,
(Is that an elementary particle or something?)

Good one, butI think you might have missed the reference to Psiload's avatar. ;)

BJ

[Ririon]

No, I got it. Just thought it needed a PG14(S) interpretation. :)

Ririon
(Not an elementary particle until I make up my own revolutionary quantumvibration gizmo to cure the common cold in 3 days or less.)

[billydkid]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Beckett ,

By O2 Aqua, I think they mean O2 + H20, or oxygen + aqua (water). They are talking about oxygen dissolved in water rather than oxygen chemically combined with water. In other words there is 7 times more O2 dissolved in their H2O then in regular bottled H2O.

BJ

Is there any reason to believe that drinking oxygen infused water has any particular effect on the body? I'm not asking this rhetorically, I am just wondering if there is any science behind drinking beverages with a lot of dissolved oxygen? Does drinking oxygen do anything for/to you?

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Psiload
Sad story... I was out for my nightly jog last night when I noticed a bunch of empy Penta Water containers in my neighbor's recycling bin. Now for the really sad part of the story... my neighbor is a physicist on the team that runs the RHIC(Relativistic Heavy Ion Collider), a particle accelerator at the Brookhaven National Lab on Long Island.

I'm just hoping that his wife bought the water, and he's unaware of the B.S. claims Penta makes. Should I say something to him?

I am a researcher and I work with many scientists most of whom are much brighter and more accomplished than myself (not saying much, admittedly). And yet, many of them are quite stupid about many things - an affliction that, well, afflicts many of us, scientists included. I used to work at the big GE research facility in Schenectady also and with some of the smartest folks on earth - many very brillant people are inclined to believe various stupid things.

[RichardR]

Originally posted by billydkid
Is there any reason to believe that drinking oxygen infused water has any particular effect on the body? I'm not asking this rhetorically, I am just wondering if there is any science behind drinking beverages with a lot of dissolved oxygen? Does drinking oxygen do anything for/to you?
In short, no: (http://www.chem1.com/CQ/oxyscams.html)

I highly recommend it if you happen to be a fish, but if you have lungs that breathe air, then forget about it! All water that has been exposed to the air is "oxygenated" to a small extent-- about 8 milligrams of O2 per liter of water at room temperature-- and this can be increased by pressurizing the water with oxygen gas; each additional atmosphere of oxygen pressure pumps an additional 40 mg into each liter. But what happens when you open the bottle? That's right, the extra oxygen goes right back out— but not immediately, so by drinking oxygenated water, you can still take in a bit more oxygen. But can any oxygen molecules that don't get burped back out actually find their way into your bloodstream through absorption in the stomach or intestine? I don't pretend to know, but I very much doubt it; the lungs are exquisitely adapted to this function, while your digestive system is specialized for absorbing other nutrients.

[BillyJoe]

billy,

Originally posted by billydkid
Is there any reason to believe that drinking oxygen infused water has any particular effect on the body? I imagine that O2, being a relatively small molecule, could easily be absorbed via the gastrointestinal lining. However, it is difficult to see what difference intermittent absorption of relatively small amounts of O2 via the gastrointestinal lining could make when there is continuous absorption of very much larger amounts of O2 via the lungs.

I don't have the definitive answer but I doubt it would differ much from the above. If I get time I might google it.

BillyJoe

[BillyJoe]

....oops, I should have read on. Dick has already done the job for us. :)

[tracer]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
it is difficult to see what difference intermittent absorption of relatively small amounts of O2 via the gastrointestinal lining could make when there is continuous absorption of very much larger amounts of O2 via the lungs.
Hmmm ... maybe marathon runners whose lungs are already operating at full capacity can get an extra little lift from the O2 in the water they drink.

Or, then again, maybe they can get an extra little lift from the placebo effect. :p