God's Wackiness, Vindictiveness & Insanity

[Mephisto]

Are you ever at a loss for words when approached by those well-dressed spiritual predators who roam through your neighborhood on Saturday mornings with their smug self-righteousness tucked right under their Bible?

Well, fear no more, with this handy guide you can take them up on their invitation to read a few scriptures together to discover the true meaning behind the word of God.

Here's a suggestion on how you might go about it. First, invite them in to discuss scripture and offer them a nice snack. Cheese and crackers works well because it will allow you access to a knife (I'll explain later). Next, don't let them commandier the conversation like they'll inevitably want to do. YOU take charge and discuss the scriptures YOU'D like to discuss. They won't argue because they'll be so pleased with your cordial invitation and with the prospect of meeting another follower of God's true word. Here are a few of the scriptures you can toss into their lap:

Genesis 6:13
God tells Noah that He intends to kill nearly every living thing on earth because the world is too violent. (I know, it's totally non-sequitur, but it makes every bit of sense to these people).

Exodus 19:12-14
God tells the people of Israel that no one can even touch Mount Sinai while He's on it. "Any who touch the mountain shall be put to death. They shall be stoned or shot with arrows; whether animal or human being, they shall not live."

Exodus 22:19 & Leviticus 24:16
"Anyone who has sexual relations with an animal must be put to death." (Apparently this was a big problem back then)

Exodus 32:7-14, 25-35
God is pissed about the golden calf and wants to kill everyone in Israel, but Moses talks him out of it. Moses talks God into letting those who didn't worship the golden calf prove their loyalty by killing everyone who did. Approximately 3,000 people are butchered by the faithful, but God STILL isn't appeased and releases a plague on the survivors.

Exodus 34:14
God tells Moses that his name is really "Jealous."

Leviticus 10:1-2
The arc of the covenant burns two of Aaron's son to death because their offerings to God are unauthorized. (I wonder where one would go to get authorization for a sacrifice?)

Leviticus 21:17-21
God is picky about who is representing him. He decrees that His priests must be free of physical defects including dwarfism, "an itching disease or scabs" or "crushed testicles."

Numbers 11:4-5, 31-34
The Israelites grow tired of eating manna every day and ask God to give them some meat. God reluctantly agrees to send them a flock of quails. He later gets angry anyway and sends a plague to kill all the meat eaters.

Numbers 16
Moses and Aaron face a rebellion of 250 of Israel's community leaders. God kills all 250 by opening a pit directly into Hell where he (in his mercy) also tosses all their family members as well.

Deuteronomy 13:6, 8-9
"If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, 'Let us go and worship other gods . . . ' Show him no pity. Do not spare him or shield him. Your hand must be the first in putting him to death."

Judges 18:1-2, 7-10, 27-28
The Danites (one of the twelve tribes of Israel) need a city. Guided by God they find the rich city of Laish which is inhabited by peaceful (and unsuspecting) people. The Danites destroy the city, slaughter the populace and settle among the ruins.

Psalm 110:5-6
"The Lord is at your right hand; He will shatter kings on the day of His wrath. He will execute judgement among the nations, filling them with corpses."

Jeremiah 13:26
God punishes the people of Judah by making them lift their robes up over their heads thereby exposing their genitals. (apparently he forgot the story of Noah and Ham)

That should be enough scripture to keep them wondering WHY this stuff is in THEIR Bible. At this point in the visit, take the knife and begin slicing the cheese to offer them, while talking about Sunday actually being the first day of the week. It shouldn't be too difficult since on God's first day at work, he created light (the sun). When they see your point, (and while still holding the knife) bring up Exodus 31:15 "Whoever does any work on the Sabbath day shall be put to death." NOW, stand up (with the knife in your hand, and a glint in your eye) and say, "That means that Saturday is actually the seventh day and therefore the Sabbath!

I promise they'll never bother you again!

Mephisto

[nabiscothejerd]

that is completely original and i love it, it is a lot better than just throwing out contradictions while they scramble around for answers

[Vagabond]

My personal favorite is one you missed and in my opinion much harder for them to deal with or defend is II Kings 2-23. Basically some children are making fun of Elisha's baldhead and he puts a curse on them. God sics two bears on the children and "tore forty-two of the children to pieces".

My psychotic fundie brother actually tried to defend this in that the children were some kind of juvenile deliquents that deserved the death sentence. None of these are the passages they are going to read in sunday school. :) Normally even fundies are a bit taken a back by this one and look very surprised that it is actually in there.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Vagabond
My psychotic fundie brother actually tried to defend this in that the children were some kind of juvenile deliquents that deserved the death sentence. None of these are the passages they are going to read in sunday school. :) Normally even fundies are a bit taken a back by this one and look very surprised that it is actually in there. I am not surprised that it's there. People say and do stupid things and there's a price to be paid. It's called cause-and-effect. For example, take a look at this ...

From the JREF Forums thread, Is Sun Worship Idolatry? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=41736)

Originally posted by Tricky

So was The Illiad, and it has precedence. If all you require is that something be ancient and recorded, then you have a bit of deciding to do. Are you going to renounce Jesus for Zeus because Zeus has a prior claim? Originally posted by Iacchus

Hey Zeus! ...

Which of course brings up this dream I had. Where I was walking out of the local supermarket. It was a bit rundown looking but, it didn't look altogether different from the one that used to be down the street. It was earlier in the evening but had already gotten dark outside. And there were two men scuffling out in the parking lot and it was beginning to get ugly. And I'm thinking, "Man this isn't right," and I looked straight up and shouted, "Hey Zeus!" ... While thinking, "Maybe you better do something about this." And yes, I was thinking Zeus, except when I said it it sure sounded like the Spanish pronunciation of Jesus! ;)

Well come to find out I wasn't exactly where I thought I was and, all of a sudden I started coming up from the depths of the ocean, and I mean the depths. And, in what seemed like an eternity to reach the surface (at an accelerated rate), it wasn't long before the sea began turning into a brilliant blue-green color. And right up above the surface rested this huge brilliant sun that illuminated everything. And I'm thinking, "Well it's obvious I've invoked some deity here, I'm just not sure I'm ready to look God straight in the face, not at this rate anyway." And don't get me wrong, it was beautiful!

So I was hoping the sensation of surfacing would stop, but no, on it continued, although it seemed like I had already gone way past the point where I should have reached the surface -- the sun was just too brilliant and the sea was too luminescent -- and I'm thinking, "Well, this is just a bit too eerie for me and, as much as I don't wish to offend God, I think I better try to get out of here." So, I pretty much wrenched myself awake and that was the end of it.And what does this suggest? That you should be careful about evoking a God which could be so easily evoked. At least this was probably the case with the more "primitive mind" which didn't have so much difficulty (with its lack of worldly distractions) "tuning in" to such a thing. It's sort of like the notion of harnessing the atom. It doesn't have to be a bad thing but, if you put it in the hands of the wrong people? ... This is the way we should be addressing the God of the Old Testament, with a great deal of respect ... And if you play with fire, chances are you're going to get burned.

[Bodhi Dharma Zen]

Pretty sick individual, that god, isnt he?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Iacchus
And what does this suggest? That god is neither merciful nor just.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus


And what does this suggest? That you should be careful about evoking a God which could be so easily evoked. At least this was probably the case with the more "primitive mind" which didn't have so much difficulty (with its lack of worldly distractions) "tuning in" to such a thing. It's sort of like the notion of harnessing the atom. It doesn't have to be a bad thing but, if you put it in the hands of the wrong people? ... This is the way we should be addressing the God of the Old Testament, with a great deal of respect ... And if you play with fire, chances are you're going to get burned.

Originally posted by Iacchus You believe too much ...

Originally posted by Iacchus

It just seems silly that you should have to remind yourself of this stuff all the time. It sounds to me like you depend greatly on what someone else has told you.

Open mouth insert foot.
:dl:

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by RandFan
That god is neither merciful nor just.

There are hundreds of passages that demonstrate the evilness of this God against small weak creatures. It seems he is like a young child with a magnifying glass and an anthill.

For me perhaps these 2 following passages demonstrate just what a truly loving God he is.

Job 9:22 It is all the same; that is why I say, `He destroys both the blameless and the wicked.' When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent.


Isaiah 45:7 forming the light and creating darkness, making peace and creating evil: I, Jehovah, do all these things.


His love brings tears to my eyes, I feel so loves, so safe in his arms..

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
His love brings tears to my eyes, I feel so loves, so safe in his arms.. "A loving god" has become a trite expression in the church. It is simply taken for granted that the wise man in the sky who notices every sparrow that falls from the sky loves us more than we can possibly comprehend. Unless he gets pissed off of course. Then the all just and all merciful will exact his revenge.

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" --Exodus 20:5

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by Vagabond
My personal favorite is one you missed and in my opinion much harder for them to deal with or defend is II Kings 2-23. Basically some children are making fun of Elisha's baldhead and he puts a curse on them. God sics two bears on the children and "tore forty-two of the children to pieces".

That was on my list for later discussion, but I'm glad you brought it up. There are so many instances (especially in the OT) of Biblical B.S. that it would have been difficult to list them all.

I'm always amazed at the fundie claim that the OT is no longer relevant after the New Testament came out, but that's easy to answer. If they consider the Bible as God's word, then they can't wholly discount the OT because it's about God himself. It's a conundrum that apparently escapes them. If the Bible is God's word then the OT is autobiographical, if it's NOT an autobiography then the Bible is tainted by the hand of man, something most fundies would never agree to.

Mephisto

[Mephisto]

[i] This is the way we should be addressing the God of the Old Testament, with a great deal of respect ... And if you play with fire, chances are you're going to get burned. [/B]

Or if you don't get burned, he'll at least make you walk around with your robe up over your head exposing your genitals.

:D

Mephisto

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by RandFan
[B]"A loving god" has become a trite expression in the church. It is simply taken for granted that the wise man in the sky who notices every sparrow that falls from the sky loves us more than we can possibly comprehend. Unless he gets pissed off of course. Then the all just and all merciful will exact his revenge.


I agree. I've also noticed two important things among most fundies; first, they are only familiar with passages that their church passes on, second, most of the fundies I've personally met are NOT avid readers, nor particularly educated and would never venture into the less popular scriptures out of intellectual curiousity.

That's why it's so pleasing to me to hold them hostage at my doorstep to show them these passages in their own Bible.

Mephisto

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by RandFan
"A loving god" has become a trite expression in the church. It is simply taken for granted that the wise man in the sky who notices every sparrow that falls from the sky loves us more than we can possibly comprehend. Unless he gets pissed off of course. Then the all just and all merciful will exact his revenge.

"I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me" --Exodus 20:5

How sad that a being that should be seen for perfection, perfect love Portrayed in such a way a spoiled self-centered child. I believe it served and still served the intended purpose, controlling by fear. People who would not condone such actions in humans say “ we can not judge God� and “ we can not judge his actions is human terms� yet they believe the greatest goal is to be like him.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Mephisto
I've also noticed two important things among most fundies; first, they are only familiar with passages that their church passes on, second, most of the fundies I've personally met are NOT avid readers, nor particularly educated and would never venture into the less popular scriptures out of intellectual curiousity. As much as I hate stereotypes and I often defend Christians I have to admit that it seems to me that there is much truth to this. I know a number of people who constantly carry their bible and supposedly "study" it all of the time. Yet I know far more about the bible then they do and I have hardly looked at the thing in 20 years. There are members of my family and my wife's family who attend bible study and attend an annual education seminar that lasts one week. I have made a point of asking each of them who came first Moses or Abraham? Deer in the headlights. None of them know of the Greek Philosophers. Most couldn't tell you who Francis Bacon was or the significance of Galileo. I am pleasantly surprised that Gutenberg causes a light bulb to go off for some but then his name is often associated with the bible so there is at least a good meme for him. I sincerely doubt that most could tell you much about the man.

My Bishop (I'm an agnostic but I have kept a relationship with my church) recently told me that he "doesn't believe in philosophy." I was embarrassed for the man who has a degree in engineering. "That is a philosophical statement I said." "I'm only interested in god's truth" he replied "and not the conjecture of men". "But how does one determine what is the truth? Any attempt to answer that question is a philosophical pursuit." He simply shook his head as if I did not get it. How dumb of me to not simply accept "his" truth.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
“ we can not judge his actions is human terms� Yet god is described with human emotions and attributes. Jealousy, envy, anger, retribution, malice, arbitrary. God often looks more like a really bad monarch than a reasoned judge.

[arthwollipot]

Joshua and Judges are my favourite books in the Bible. First, God tells Joshua to slaughter every man, woman, child, cow, sheep and donkey because he promised this land to Joshua's ancestors.

Then when Joshy's dead, and the Israelites go back to worshipping idols, God sends Judges to bring them back to worshipping him. And it doesn't work! They still continue to worship idols! So God keeps on sending Judges. And they continue to "backslide". So God sends more Judges (the last of whom was Sampson the Incredibly Stupid).

I particularly like the bit where God gets testy:

10:11 And the LORD said unto the children of Israel, Did not I deliver you from the Egyptians, and from the Amorites, from the children of Ammon, and from the Philistines?
10:12 The Zidonians also, and the Amalekites, and the Maonites, did oppress you; and ye cried to me, and I delivered you out of their hand.
10:13 Yet ye have forsaken me, and served other gods: wherefore I will deliver you no more.
10:14 Go and cry unto the gods which ye have chosen; let them deliver you in the time of your tribulation.

If Judges were ever to be made into a movie, it would be a 1980s slash horror flick. Look what happened to Sisera (http://www.thebricktestament.com/judges/massacre_of_the_canaanites/jg04_17.html).

[Odin]

Judges1:19 -
And the LORD was with Judah; and he drave out the inhabitants of the mountain; but could not drive out the inhabitants of the valley, because they had chariots of iron.

http://www.thebricktestament.com/judges/iron_chariots/jg01_19c.jpg

[c4ts]

So the LORD was with Judah, but the LORD was lazy and didn't give Judah the technology to combat sophisticated iron age weaponry.

I don't get it, he gave Joseph Smith a magic ball that told him Jesus came to America, he gave all his angels flaming swords of instant death, so why couldn't he spare Judah an armored car, or at least a 17th century cannon?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by RandFan
That god is neither merciful nor just. Yes, neutral might be a good word for it, yet ultimately this neutrality -- similar to our relationship with the sun (http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh14.html) perhaps? -- is what clothes and feeds us.

[Ossai]

Iacchus
Yes, neutral might be a good word for it,
So what you are saying is that a world with a god is indistinguishable from a world without a god. God’s neutrality would therefore disapprove of anyone worshiping or calling attention to or even the possible attention to the existence of god.

Therefore the most holy idea is expressed by the apathetic agnostic; “I don’t know and I don’t care.�

(I think the phrase was coined by EvilDave, but I'm uncertain and I won't bother to check. ;)

Ossai

[nabiscothejerd]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Yes, neutral might be a good word for it, yet ultimately this neutrality -- similar to our relationship with the sun (http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh14.html) perhaps? -- is what clothes and feeds us.

The bible does not say anything about god being neutral towards all humans, and if so then what verse ( I have a bible right in front of me).

Joshua and Judges are my favourite books in the Bible. First, God tells Joshua to slaughter every man, woman, child, cow, sheep and donkey because he promised this land to Joshua's ancestors. Where is the neutrality in that?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by nabiscothejerd
The bible does not say anything about god being neutral towards all humans, and if so then what verse ( I have a bible right in front of me). 43 Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy.

44 But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;

45 That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust.

46 For if ye love them which love you, what reward have ye? do not even the publicans the same?

47 And if ye salute your brethren only, what do ye more than others? do not even the publicans so?

48 Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven is perfect. ~ Matthew 5:43-48 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=47&chapter=5&version=9)Where is the neutrality in that? Obviously God represents different things to different people at different times, much in the way the sun (http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh14.html) shines down on our planet and represents different things to the various life-forms which inhabit it.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Ossai
Iacchus

So what you are saying is that a world with a god is indistinguishable from a world without a god. God’s neutrality would therefore disapprove of anyone worshiping or calling attention to or even the possible attention to the existence of god.

Therefore the most holy idea is expressed by the apathetic agnostic; “I don’t know and I don’t care.�

(I think the phrase was coined by EvilDave, but I'm uncertain and I won't bother to check. ;)

Ossai Oh, I forgot to mention, that in being neutral, God is also very conciliatory. ;)

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Oh, I forgot to mention, that in being neutral, God is also very conciliatory. ;)

OH yes I agree and he says so

Isaiah 13: 5-11 They come from a far country, from the end of heaven, even the Lord, and the weapons of his wrath to destroy all the land. Howl for the day of YHWH is at hand. It shall come as destruction from the almighty...Behold the day of the Lord comes, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it...And I will punish the world for their evil, and the wicked for their iniquity; and I will cause the arrogance of the proud to cease, and will lay low the haughtiness of the terrible

Isaiah 66: 15 For behold, the LORD will come in fire And His chariots like the whirlwind, To render His anger with fury, And His rebuke with flames of fire.

Isaiah 66: 16 For the LORD will execute judgment by fire And by His sword on all flesh, And those slain by the LORD will be many.

Zephaniah 1:18 Neither their silver nor their gold Will be able to deliver them On the day of the LORD'S wrath; And all the earth will be devoured In the fire of His jealousy, For He will make a complete end, Indeed a terrifying one, Of all the inhabitants of the earth.

Joel 2: 30 I will display wonders in the sky and on the earth,
Blood, fire and columns of smoke.

Joel 2: 31 The sun will be turned into darkness And the moon into blood
Before the great and awesome day of the LORD comes.

Isaiah 13: 10 For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine

Isaiah 13: 13 Therefore I will shake the heavens, and the earth shall remove out of her place, in the wrath of the Lord of hosts, and in the day of his fierce anger.


Re 6: 17 the great day of their wrath has come and who is able to stand.

Revelation 11: 18 and Your wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to reward Your bond-servants the prophets and the saints and those who fear Your name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth.

Re 15: 7 seven golden bowls that were full of the anger of God

Re 16: 1 go and pour out the seven bowls of the anger of God into the earth

Bowls of WRATH!

Re 19: 15 he treads too the winepress of the anger of the wrath of God the almighty.


there is so many more but I am overcome with his love and must bask in its glow..

[Iacchus]

Any hostility we see in God by the way, is our own anthropomorphism of it. ;)

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Any hostility we see in God by the way, is our own anthropomorphism of it. ;) " We ? "

" Our ? "

[gnome]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Any hostility we see in God by the way, is our own anthropomorphism of it. ;)

You have an easy way out of this argument--by extending the point you just made to agree that if there is divine inspiration to the bible, that the content was at least somewhat tainted by the human beings scribing it--i.e., that the bible is fallible and may not accurately represent the God you believe.

In that way you may see that it is not your God that is being attacked, but the inaccuracies in the bible. On the other hand, if you stand by every word of the bible, you face defending a God that approves of or commands these cruelties.

[uruk]

Any hostility we see in God by the way, is our own anthropomorphism of it. So was it an anthopomorphisim of god when he flooded the world or blasted Sodom and Gamorra off the face of the earth or turn Lot's wife into a pillar of salt or waylaid Egypt in plauges?

[Gestahl]

Originally posted by Mephisto


Various instances of God's tomfoolery



All of this, of course, begs the question:

If God were to exist, would we actually want him to interfere with our world?

Any way he could interfere would probably be disastrous for some party or another. Even without world catastrophes the ensuing population problems could bring about even more suffering.

Far better God leaves us to our own devices (if he exists). At least that way the world is fair, if not just.

[Gestahl]

Originally posted by uruk
So was it an anthopomorphisim of god when he flooded the world or blasted Sodom and Gamorra off the face of the earth or turn Lot's wife into a pillar of salt or waylaid Egypt in plauges?

Well, yeah... seeing as all that was fictional.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Any hostility we see in God by the way, is our own anthropomorphism of it. ;)

Oh, OK so when God kills his children,small lesser weaker beings it is love when human killshis children,small lesser weaker beings it is hate and evil. OK I have it now… silly me :cs:

[uruk]

Well, yeah... seeing as all that was fictional.
Fictional god, fictional events.

[nabiscothejerd]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Obviously God represents different things to different people at different times, much in the way the sun (http://swedenborg.newearth.org/hh/hh14.html) shines down on our planet and represents different things to the various life-forms which inhabit it.


Okay I was wrong to forgot that i was referring to the old testament and not the whole bible. We must all remember that you can get more things out of the bible than you can get out of the internet. Oh yeah wasn't god and jesus the same, and wasn't jesus god's son,

[rumblefish]

Originally posted by Mephisto
[B]Are you ever at a loss for words when approached by those well-dressed spiritual predators who roam through your neighborhood on Saturday mornings with their smug self-righteousness tucked right under their Bible?

not me I use this
test those christians (http://prattle.antipope.org/samhuinn02/test.html):D

[arthwollipot]

I use this:

Kissing Hank's Ass (http://www.jhuger.com/kisshank.php)

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
Oh, OK so when God kills his children,small lesser weaker beings it is love when human killshis children,small lesser weaker beings it is hate and evil. OK I have it now… silly me :cs: Think of it this way. If the Universe evolved from nothing (with no God), then who are we to evalutate anything from the standpoint of worth, since we are worth nothing anyway? :con2: Doesn't the fact that you're an illusion to yourself prove that the whole thing is meaningless?

[arthwollipot]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Think of it this way. If the Universe evolved from nothing (with no God), then who are we to evalutate anything from the standpoint of worth, since we are worth nothing anyway? :con2: Doesn't the fact that you're an illusion to yourself prove that the whole thing is meaningless?

What does "worth" have to do with anything? Why should we want to evaluate anything from the standpoint of "worth"? And why should it matter whether we are "worth" anything? And to what external reference can we be said to be "worth" anything? And why us being worth nothing imply that we are an illusion? And who needs "meaning" anyway?

That's all for now.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Think of it this way. If the Universe evolved from nothing (with no God), then who are we to evalutate anything from the standpoint of worth, since we are worth nothing anyway? :con2: Doesn't the fact that you're an illusion to yourself prove that the whole thing is meaningless?

How very sad and empty life for you life must be. How sad to believe life is only meaningful if there is a God. How sad it would be to have no love or compassion for living things, to feel no compassion or desire to be kind or to help ease suffering of another being simply because they are in pain and/or suffering.

To only believe to the only reason you would love another, be kind or care is because of a God, only out of fear or seeking reward. It is so sad and I feel bad for you to be so without morals, to not know anything outside your fears and false ego.

For me it matters not if there is rebirth after my death or nothing at all or even your hell. I will do as I have always done, just love all beings, help them because they suffer, they wish to be safe and happy.

The God idea is meaningless to me and this God you offer up is truly meaningless, petty and small.

I know you simply wish to keep ignoring what I have said about physical realities, it is clear that dishonest is also part of your religion.

I will ask you again, sadly knowing you will not answer, what is your goal here?

I ask you to try this, get off the computer and help another, go out and be kind just for the simple reason of being kind, you will find great joy in it.

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
How very sad and empty life for you life must be. How sad to believe life is only meaningful if there is a God. How sad it would be to have no love or compassion for living things, to feel no compassion or desire to be kind or to help ease suffering of another being simply because they are in pain and/or suffering. Sad huh? Why paint a picture on no canvas? ... which, is all you're doing really.

[Vim Razz]

Originally posted by Mephisto
...That should be enough scripture to keep them wondering WHY this stuff is in THEIR Bible... The notion of God being inherently good didn't enter into Judaic philosophy until around the Babylonian captivity, when it was influenced by the concepts of absolute good and evil found in Zorastianism.

Prior to that, God was just God, no good or evil implied. He was to be obeyed because he was God.

The passages you quote were written before then.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
Sad huh? Why paint a picture on no canvas? ... which, is all you're doing really.

So sad you believ that, so sad you refuse to comprehend what I and others write and say, clearly you do not understand Buddhism or for our material Atheist acts of kindness, and doing what is right believing there is nothing after this life, really it is them that are most moral.


It is so very sad you would do what is good and right, only be kind and help others only if you get some reward.


Will you do as I ask and start doing things to help others, spend at least some time each week being kind to others?

Not unexpectedly you did not answer any questions, I believe most here understand why and have sympathy for you.

Please to try to answer just one as a start, what do you wish to gain at this site and the others you go to?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
So sad you believ that, so sad you refuse to comprehend what I and others write and say, clearly you do not understand Buddhism or for our material Atheist acts of kindness, and doing what is right believing there is nothing after this life, really it is them that are most moral. So sad for you to be so sad. Too bad it's not "grounded" in anything real.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So sad for you to be so sad. Too bad it's not "grounded" in anything real.

I am not sad my friend, I am very happy, I have compassion for you and your hard heart.

To me it seems so sad to only begrudgingly have love and compassion for any other being only because you believe there is a God as you do.

[gnome]

Originally posted by Iacchus
So sad for you to be so sad. Too bad it's not "grounded" in anything real.

How said it must be for you to be so sad that he's so sad...

This could go on all day... :)

I notice you didn't respond to my comment--do you believe the Bible to be infallible? If so, how is that that the "anthropomorphized" emotions attributed to God are spelled out explicitly in it, but to point it out is an error on our part?

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by Pahansiri
I am not sad my friend, I am very happy, I have compassion for you and your hard heart.

To me it seems so sad to only begrudgingly have love and compassion for any other being only because you believe there is a God as you do. My, you must really be full of delusions my friend, and that's sad. :(

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by gnome
You have an easy way out of this argument--by extending the point you just made to agree that if there is divine inspiration to the bible, that the content was at least somewhat tainted by the human beings scribing it--i.e., that the bible is fallible and may not accurately represent the God you believe.God is infallible. Man is not infallible. The Bible is not infallible. And yes, there is a lot of divine inspiration to be found in the Bible.

In that way you may see that it is not your God that is being attacked, but the inaccuracies in the bible. On the other hand, if you stand by every word of the bible, you face defending a God that approves of or commands these cruelties. When I read the Bible, I try to read it with an open mind. And yes, at one time or another, I've been taken aback by the things said in the Bible.

By the way, does the sun shine fiercely in the desert? And what's the difference between that and the sun which shines in the rain forest? Are we speaking of two different suns here? Or, are we not speaking of one and the same?

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
My, you must really be full of delusions my friend, and that's sad. :(

"delusions"? Not at all just responding to what you said, please do know everyone can read your post so really you are hiding nothing.;)

[Pahansiri]

God is infallible

Got any proof of that?;)

I try to read it with an open mind

Now you have a better chance of proving God then proving you have an open mind…
;) :D

On a serious note. Could you drop over the the Iacchus and lifegazer, an honest question for you both, asked with respect. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=56457) thread and answer.

Thanks. Be well

[Iacchus]

Oh, and one other thing (this for gnome), the children of Israel were brought up under some very harsh circumstances. That doesn't mean God wasn't there every step of the way, however. And neither should we discount the more recent influence of Zoroastrianism (http://www.askwhy.co.uk/judaism/0200PersiaJudaism.html), when "the Jews" were realeased from Babylon. Which, is more than likely where they came up with the notion of being the "chosen people." But then again how can you argue, since this is where the savior -- who, seems to uphold the very ideals of Zoroastrianism -- was born. It also begins to speak of the universality of Christianity as well.

[Pahansiri]

Originally posted by Iacchus
It also begins to speak of the universality of Christianity as well.

Actually that would not be the case at all. Christianity and Jesus were simply the last of the son god myths. Much, most of the Christian Bible and it’s myths are retold stories the Zoroastrians for example.

There is nothing really new in the Christian Bible.

[Beerina]

"Hey Zeus!"

It's actually closer to "Hey, Sue!"

I've a (Jewish) buddy who, when Quake was all the rage 10 years ago, logged on and named himself "Hey, Sue!" He proceeded to grab the enemies' flag (capture the flag) and go hide, all the while broadcasting, "Stop the madness! Can't we all just get along? Stop fighting!"


Personally, I've always loved, in a nerdly sort of way, the comparison of online Quake and its myriad descendents as being eerily similar to the old Star Trek episode where some energy being who "ate hatred" forced the Klingons and Kirk & Co. to fight and fight and fight. Die, and be re-born suddenly, go back to fighting immediately, forever and ever. Very prescient.

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Pahansiri

Job 9:22 It is all the same; that is why I say, `He destroys both the blameless and the wicked.' When a scourge brings sudden death, he mocks the despair of the innocent.


Jeez, when Chef from South Park said the following, I thought it was just sarcastic humor. Little did I know it was literally true as well:


Stan : "Why would God let Kenny die, Chef? Why? Kenny's my friend. Why can't God take someone else's friend?"

Chef : "Stan, sometimes God takes those closest to us, because it makes him feel better about himself. He is a very vengeful God, Stan. He's all pissed off about something we did thousands of years ago. He just can't get over it, so he doesn't care who he takes. Children, puppies, it don't matter to him, so long as it makes us sad. Do you understand?"

Stan : "But then, why does God give us anything to start with?"

Chef : "Well, look at it this way: if you want to make a baby cry, first you give it a lollipop. Then you take it away. If you never give it a lollipop to begin with, then you would have nothin' to cry about. That's like God, who gives us life and love and help just so that he can tear it all away and make us cry, so he can drink the sweet milk of our tears. You see, it's our tears, Stan, that give God his great power."

Stan : "I thnk I understand."