Visual Studio 2005 Beta 2 = FREE. :-)

[Theodore Kurita]

Free Visual Studio 2005 Beta 2, no shipping either. This is a great deal for developers. I've gotten several betas this way - and it works every time.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/getthebetas/country/

Enjoy!

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by Theodore Kurita
Free Visual Studio 2005 Beta 2, no shipping either. This is a great deal for developers. I've gotten several betas this way - and it works every time.

http://msdn.microsoft.com/getthebetas/country/

Enjoy! I installed it on Tuesday. Yum, yum, yum, it's got some very cool refactoring tools. .NET 2 has got partial classes, generics, and nullable types, all of which I've been hanging out for.

[scribble]

Their compiler is and always(*) has been free, beta or not. Do you really need their IDE to go with it? And if so, what's so wrong about shelling out for it?

I wouldn't use MSs compiler or IDE myself... it's just asking for problems (vendor lock-in, anyone?).

(* for the last four years at least, before that I wasn't paying attention. These days I only pay attention so that I can tell the ***** morons who are still using VS from '99 to go get the new compiler.

It's just plain stupid to be using a compiler that old because you are cheap. GCC is free and Free, you know. Bah. Kids these days.)

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Actually, the IDE is the part I want.

I used to use VC++ 6, but there were too many incompatibilities with the C++ standard, so I switched to DEVC++ with the gcc compiler. The IDE is ok, but I miss the visual studio IDE.

I played around with VC++ .NET, and a lot of the C++ standard problems have been fixed (not all, though). But I don't have it, and I can't afford to buy it right now.

Does anybody out there know of a good free IDE for gcc under Windows? Or is DEVC++ the best out there?


Dr. Stupid

[scribble]

Originally posted by Stimpson J. Cat
[B]Actually, the IDE is the part I want.

I used to use VC++ 6, but there were too many incompatibilities with the C++ standard,


Exactly! It was written pre-standard. Everytime I get a budding young C+= programmer who is using VC6 (and there's a lot more out there than you'd expect) I look for a stick to hit them with. Usually it's their teacher's fault. gah! Idiots!!


so I switched to DEVC++ with the gcc compiler. The IDE is ok, but I miss the visual studio IDE.


DevC++ is a nice IDE, but it's buggy...


Does anybody out there know of a good free IDE for gcc under Windows? Or is DEVC++ the best out there?


Have you tried Eclipse? It's quite nice... and it's not just for Java anymore. I'm not sure what other IDE's I've seen and enjoyed will even run under Windows...

www.eclipse.org I believe.

The "IDE" I actually use now is vim. I keep trying to find a nice modern graphical IDE, but I'm just old and set in my ways I guess. The mouse intrfaces just slow me down.

[Iconoclast]

Originally posted by scribble
Their compiler is and always(*) has been free, beta or not.Yes, but the C++ compiler is a teensy, tiny part of Visual Studio 2005, the image is four and a half gigabytes after all.

Originally posted by scribble
Exactly! It was written pre-standard.And that's a real problem for Microsoft. They can't just turn around and say "we've decided to support the standard for scoping of variables declared in 'for' statements" because that will break several hundred million lines of source code. Microsoft are justifiably proud of the fact that an application written in Visual C++ 1.52 will happily compile with the latest compiler without changes.

The Version 8 C++ compiler is apparently much more standards-compliant that previous versions, however I do very little C++ coding these days so I can't say how compliant it actually is, though there is (for example) a new switch to enforce the official scoping rule for 'for' statements.

Originally posted by scribble
Everytime I get a budding young C+= programmer who is using VC6 (and there's a lot more out there than you'd expect) I look for a stick to hit them with. Usually it's their teacher's fault. gah! Idiots!!I'd hazard a guess that Visual Studio is the most common tool for building Windows applications in the commercial world. Are the teachers "idiots" because they're teaching students with the tools they'll probably be using after they graduate?

And really, a computer programmer threatening violence against others for not using his tools of choice is a little bit immature don't you think?

[scribble]

Originally posted by Iconoclast
I'd hazard a guess that Visual Studio is the most common tool for building Windows applications in the commercial world.


VC *6*?


Are the teachers "idiots" because they're teaching students with the tools they'll probably be using after they graduate?


No, they're idiots because they're teaching with a pre-standard compiler. VC6 was written before the C++ standard was even finalized. The language those kids are learning is almost-but-not-quite-C++, and if you dealt with half the idiot questions I do on a daily basis, you'd see ow it damages those kids and the industry as a whole.

If I were in school and I signed up for a class and the teacher was using VC6, I would demand my money back. And maybe look or another school. I've told many, many students the same thing, and I stand by it.

I know IRC creds are nearly worthless, but I happen to be an admin on the #C++ channel on Undernet. I talk to a LOT of these people. I'm not just making this up.


And really, a computer programmer threatening violence against others for not


You seriously think I would hit someone with a stick because they use another compiler? Is your sense of humor completely broken? Besides, I don't have any sticks nearby... I'd probably have to use my book bag or something.



using his tools of choice is a little bit immature don't you think?


My tools of choice don't even enter into this discussion. I wouldn't even consider writing a binary for Windows at this point, so I'm right off your chart. This isn't about my tools of choice or what I personally like. It's about people who are trying so hard to be C++ programmers and they fail because they didn't learn C++... they learned Visual C++ 6.0, an almost-but-not-quite-entirerly different language.

[a_unique_person]

All I can say is that all the many issues I have had with 2003, seem to be resolved with 2005. A project that would not compile with 2003, due to some file locking issues, compiles without any change in 2005.

There are the Beta 'bugs' present, of course, but I can live with them as long as I can get some work done.