Marxist Madness --> Nelson Mandela

[Jedi Knight]

Another good article about the policeman-killing Marxist Nelson Mandela and his hatred for the west (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=5881).

JK

[Richard G]

The latest quote I read from this goof yesterday said something like "Why are the U.S. and Britain intent on underming the efforts of the U.N.? Is it because the U.N. President is black?".

Complete idiot.

[Crossbow]

http://wire.ap.org/APnews/?SITE=PAREA&FRONTID=HOME

Groundhogs Looking for Love, not Shadow

By DAN LEWERENZ
Associated Press Writer

STATE COLLEGE, Pa. (AP) — Groundhogs that emerge from their dens in early February are probably looking for sweethearts, not shadows, a researcher says. And what's more, the girl groundhogs invite the boys in for a visit.

The rodent ritual — whimsically marked each Feb. 2 as Groundhog Day — seems to be part of the mating ritual ``to see which females are available and where they are,'' said Stam Zervanos, an associate professor of biology at Pennylvania State University's campus in Reading.

Their scouting done, the groundhogs then return to hibernating until the March mating season, he said.

The appearances are the heart of modern Groundhog Day celebrations, which evolved from a German superstition that if such an animal sees its shadow on the Christian holiday of Candlemas, then a long winter is in store.

``What's happening, I'm pretty confident, is that they're getting together, getting ready for mating that's going to come later,'' Zervanos said.

...

[Smalso]

I read the other day that many dog lovers mistake a dog's licks as kisses when actually they are searching for food. I tried to explain to a dog-loving friend of mine that when her dog licked her mouth, it was not kissing her. It associated her mouth with food and very likely could detect the scent of food around her mouth. I have seen no research that indicates that dogs know what kissing is. Personally, I don't want a dog licking my chops. Humping my leg is cool, but licking my mouth with the same tongue that licks his own...well, you get the idea.

[DanishDynamite]

Smalso:I read the other day that many dog lovers mistake a dog's licks as kisses when actually they are searching for food. I tried to explain to a dog-loving friend of mine that when her dog licked her mouth, it was not kissing her. It associated her mouth with food and very likely could detect the scent of food around her mouth. I have seen no research that indicates that dogs know what kissing is. Personally, I don't want a dog licking my chops. Humping my leg is cool, but licking my mouth with the same tongue that licks his own...well, you get the idea. It is my understanding that dogs actually never really grow up. That is, they have been bred in such a way that they, even in adulthood, retain many of their puppy qualities. In pups, domestic or wild, you will always see this behaviour of tail-wagging, excited yelps and licking of the mouth, when the parents return (from a hunt, in the case of wild dogs). The pups are simultanously acknowledging the superiority of the parent (and the bond) and "begging" for food.

For adult domestic dogs, who are usually well fed, I don't think the behaviour is concerned much with food, but mostly with the bond/superiority bit.

[Blue Monk]

I'd like to get a dog but I'll have to fix my fence first.

Personally I like mutts. They are always the smartest.

[Smalso]

Then it would be a good idea to fix the dog, too.

DD, that's interesting. I believe I've heard or read something to that effect; also about dogs being territorial. That's why they bark at the postman and others they consider to be intruders. They also tend to be protective of their "masters." Cats, on the other hand--I don't know much about them, and don't care to.:D

[Advocate]

How did we get from the comments of Nelson Mandela (who I would definitely say is no friend of the US or the West generally) to the mating habits of groundhogs and the reasons why dogs lick?

[DanishDynamite]

Advocate:How did we get from the comments of Nelson Mandela (who I would definitely say is no friend of the US or the West generally) to the mating habits of groundhogs and the reasons why dogs lick? Our phasers were set to "anti-troll".

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Advocate
How did we get from the comments of Nelson Mandela (who I would definitely say is no friend of the US or the West generally) to the mating habits of groundhogs and the reasons why dogs lick?

The leftists have nothing to say when one of their perversionist icons steps all over his tonque in front of international media like the communist Nelson Mandela did.

Don't let them bother you--it is in their nature. They talk about "dogs licking" and yet still forget that communism died when the Berlin Wall fell. Pretty funny, actually. That is what they have in common--dogs.

JK

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The leftists have nothing to say when one of their perversionist icons steps all over his tonque in front of international media like the communist Nelson Mandela did.

Don't let them bother you--it is in their nature. They talk about "dogs licking" and yet still forget that communism died when the Berlin Wall fell. Pretty funny, actually. That is what they have in common--dogs.

JK

I just got back from the grocery store. While there, I saw my first Segway in the parking lot!!! An old guy owned it. Must have been near 80 years old. Good for him!!

Does anyone else have any Segway sightings to share???

Edited to add: Ooops, sorry Crossbow. I didn't mean to hijack your groundhog thread.

We can talk about both things - groundhogs and Segways. Or maybe a groundhog riding a Segway!!! :eek: :eek: LOL!!! :D :D

[NightG1]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


The leftists have nothing to say when...

My son went to a birthday party today and brought back two ballons. He went out in the back yard and released them. They went WAY up in the air.

[Aardvark_DK]

Hey, JK, I have something to say that is totally on topic. Are you ready for it? Here goes:

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
This is my final thread topic. It didn't dawn on me that I was debating in the midst of a hate group until recently when sovietesque "mental illness" labels were used against people who did not adhere to the atheist extremism point of view on numerous subjects.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK
Hey, JK, I have something to say that is totally on topic. Are you ready for it? Here goes:



Yeah but I got a gazillion PM's asking me to come back. That is why I didn't leave. Folks love me here.

JK

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Is groundhog day tomorrow????

[NightG1]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

Yeah but I got a gazillion PM's...
JK

I have this neighbor who has one of those gas-powered radio-controlled cars. He had it out this afternoon. It made VROOOM-VROOOOM noises as it went up and down the street.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Yeah but I got a gazillion PM's asking me to come back. That is why I didn't leave. Folks love me here.

JK
Millions of anonymous supporters:rolleyes:
Think he'd care to share them gazillions......he could delete the names to protect privacy.....
oh and yeah, do they love him here or hate him here? Or is this just about the most tolerant place around? :confused:
"I will drop in from time to time but will no longer contribute to the forum. I am off to pursue a forum where there is less hate and hopefully more people who share my views and beliefs.

Jedi "There is a God" Knight 11-12-02
Atheists invited me back. JK 11-26-02"
I think I'm gonna take my groundhog and go home.
:mad:
And wasn't Groundhog Day a good movie?:cool:

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by subgenius
And wasn't Groundhog Day a good movie?
It was an excellent movie! Bill Murray rules!

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK

It was an excellent movie! Bill Murray rules!
Very profound for a "B" movie.:)

[The Central Scrutinizer]

I never saw it :(

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK

It was an excellent movie! Bill Murray rules!

Yeah, that was a good movie.

JK

Originally posted by NightG1


My son went to a birthday party today and brought back two ballons. He went out in the back yard and released them. They went WAY up in the air.

AHEM! How far did they go?:D

[Skeptic]

Yeah but I got a gazillion PM's asking me to come back.

Of course.

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by Denise


AHEM! How far did they go?:D

/Start Ralph Wiggums voice

To heaven???

/End Ralph Wiggums voice

[Smalso]

Who invented waffles, anyway?

[crackmonkey]

For what it's worth, Mandela made himself sound like an a**hole. Why do people revere the man? I understand that he was imprisoned and tortured by the South African government, and he didn't break under duress. For that, he deserves respect. Apart from being on the right side of apartheid and being a victim of the regime, what qualities does the man possess that would lead people to listen to his opinions? He's a Marxist and his former wife was a bloodthirsty thug... these things alone would lead me to question his character.

[Doctor X]

It demonstrates that even a**holes may go to prison for the wrong reasons.

I have lost whatever respect I had for the old man.

--J.D.

[Shane Costello]

Originally posted by crackmonkey:
Apart from being on the right side of apartheid and being a victim of the regime, what qualities does the man possess that would lead people to listen to his opinions? He's a Marxist and his former wife was a bloodthirsty thug... these things alone would lead me to question his character.

Originally posted by Doctor X:
It demonstrates that even a**holes may go to prison for the wrong reasons.

I have lost whatever respect I had for the old man.



You racist fellow travellers of white supremacists!

[Jon_in_london]

The latest quote I read from this goof yesterday said something like "Why are the U.S. and Britain intent on underming the efforts of the U.N.? Is it because the U.N. President is black?".

Do you have a reference for that or are you just making it up?

For what it's worth, Mandela made himself sound like an *******. Why do people revere the man? I understand that he was imprisoned and tortured by the South African government, and he didn't break under duress. For that, he deserves respect. Apart from being on the right side of apartheid and being a victim of the regime, what qualities does the man possess that would lead people to listen to his opinions? He's a Marxist and his former wife was a bloodthirsty thug... these things alone would lead me to question his character.

He made himself sound like an 'a**hole' to you because he dared to be critical of your world-view without resorting to the verbal contortions that diplomats are obliged to perform.

If he is such a marxist, why does South Africa have a market economy? And if you are wondering what makes him so great- well, the fact that South Africa never erupted into a full scale blood bath/civil war might give you a hint.

[BillyTK]

When was Nelson Mandela in Madness? What instrument did he play? I know The Specials released a single called "Free Nelson Mandela" (which was a quite groovy tune as I recall); maybe they knew something about Madness that we didn't, like Mandela being bound by contractual obligations to the band when in fact he wanted to leave. Hmmm...

[EvilBiker]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london
Do you have a reference for that or are you just making it up?


Link to the Cape Argus (http://www.iol.co.za/index.php?set_id=1&click_id=13&art_id=qw1043926920921B262)

If he is such a marxist, why does South Africa have a market economy? And if you are wondering what makes him so great- well, the fact that South Africa never erupted into a full scale blood bath/civil war might give you a hint. [/B]

Agreed, absolutely - for this alone, he deserves mucho respect.

As for him being a Marxist, not true. A lot of support was given to the ANC from Marxist sources, and the ANC does have roots in Marxist ideology, mainly rhetorical, but with the fall of the Communist regime, these petered out. There is still an alliance between the ANC and the SA Communist Party, but that link is tenuous at best. The Communists are being sidelined because the ANC realises that there is no contribution that Marxism can give.

As for the "black UN leader" quote, I must admit that was really just downright stupid, and there is no excuse for that.

EB

[subgenius]

Originally posted by BillyTK
When was Nelson Mandela in Madness? What instrument did he play? I know The Specials released a single called "Free Nelson Mandela" (which was a quite groovy tune as I recall); maybe they knew something about Madness that we didn't, like Mandela being bound by contractual obligations to the band when in fact he wanted to leave. Hmmm...
He actually invented the nutty dance.
All I know is I ain't gonna play Sun City.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by subgenius

He actually invented the nutty dance.
All I know is I ain't gonna play Sun City.

Word! They're stabbing our brothers and sisters in the back! Let me hear you say... :D

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Yeah but I got a gazillion PM's asking me to come back. That is why I didn't leave. Folks love me here.

JK

Wow, a new secondary tag line!

But not to sidetrack things, I still have not seen the movie Groundhog Day. Although I have often thought that groundhogs are rather cute given their rodent heritage and swine name, and I like the comedy of Bill Murray.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Crossbow


Wow, a new secondary tag line!

But not to sidetrack things, I still have not seen the movie Groundhog Day. Although I have often thought that groundhogs are rather cute given their rodent heritage and swine name, and I like the comedy of Bill Murray.
Get the movie. I'll give you your money back if you don't like it.

[Smalso]

I finally saw "Groundhog Day" about a year after it was released and, to my surprise, I liked it. How many times have I said, "I wish I could do that over again?" What if you could keep doing it until you get it right? Interesting premise; and I always thought Murray is funny.

[Skeptic]

He made himself sound like an 'a**hole' to you because he dared to be critical of your world-view

The two are not mutually exclusive. Here is an example:

BEING AN A**HOLE: "F**k you, whitey!"

CHALLANGING YOUR WORLD VIEW: "We are secretly controlled by martians."

BEING AN ******* AND CHALLANGING YOUR WORLD VIEW AT THE SAME TIME: "We are secretly controlled by whiteys like you. F**k you, whitey!"

The last one is (a free translation of) Mandela's statement.

[Doctor X]

Not to mention ignorant, since, apparently, Mandela never bothered to talk to George the Younger's Secretary of State.

--J.D.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Skeptic
He made himself sound like an '*******' to you because he dared to be critical of your world-view

The two are not mutually exclusive. Here is an example:

BEING AN *******: "**** you, whitey!"

CHALLANGING YOUR WORLD VIEW: "We are secretly controlled by martians."

BEING AN ******* AND CHALLANGING YOUR WORLD VIEW AT THE SAME TIME: "We are secretly controlled by whiteys like you. **** you, whitey!"

The last one is (a free translation of) Mandela's statement.

shame.

[Richard G]

http://kcal9.com/topstories/topstories_story_031073341.html

Here is a news article outlining Mendelas hypocritical, racist, anti- American speech. What wonderful contributions has this commie contributed to mankind?

Heres a quote:
Why is the United States behaving so arrogantly?" he asked. "All that (Mr. Bush) wants is Iraqi oil. Is it because the secretary-general of the United Nations is now a black man? They never did that when secretary-generals were white," he sai

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Doctor X
Not to mention ignorant, since, apparently, Mandela never bothered to talk to George the Younger's Secretary of State.

--J.D.

...Or his national security advisor. This is a good point, Doctor X. The commie Mandela is only color-blind to those that are communists. That is why he didn't see the two African Americans seated in the highest levels of the US government when he ran his mouth.

JK

[Doctor X]

Decorum dictates we leave the man to his dotage.

--J.D.

[Advocate]

Originally posted by Doctor X
Decorum dictates we leave the man to his dotage.

--J.D.

But good taste dictates we leave him to it outside the public arena.

[crackmonkey]

The consensus seems to be that Mandela is notable for being oppressed by an unjust government, and not allowing the overthrowing of the SA government to turn into a bloodbath. That is worthy of praise, but hardly unique. Has the man done anything at all to be respected as a statesman?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by crackmonkey
The consensus seems to be that Mandela is notable for being oppressed by an unjust government, and not allowing the overthrowing of the SA government to turn into a bloodbath. That is worthy of praise, but hardly unique. Has the man done anything at all to be respected as a statesman?

The leftist media gave that commie access because he said bad things about President Bush. South Africa is in a downward political spiral to which a pending civil war will only fix.

JK

[Advocate]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


South Africa is in a downward political spiral to which a pending civil war will only fix.

JK

I don't know if anything, civil war or not, will fix South Africa's ills any time soon. They are in a pretty sad state. Its not just the AIDS epidemic, though that is certainly not helping any.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Advocate


I don't know if anything, civil war or not, will fix South Africa's ills any time soon. They are in a pretty sad state. Its not just the AIDS epidemic, though that is certainly not helping any.

The current AIDS crisis isnt mandelas fault. It is the fault of the aparthied gov for not doing anything about it when the problem was in its infancy (although black south africans under aparthied had better health care than their 'brothers' anywere else in southern africa). Look at Mbeki to see a real AIDS loon.

The consensus seems to be that Mandela is notable for being oppressed by an unjust government, and not allowing the overthrowing of the SA government to turn into a bloodbath. That is worthy of praise, but hardly unique. Has the man done anything at all to be respected as a statesman?

Perhaps you have to experience South Africa to understand what a great man he is. I dont belive anyone else could have stopped the tidal wave of violence and hatred that threatened SA in 1994. Without him SA would have degenrated into into another DRC. Doesnt saving the lives and livelihood of 40m people count for anything?

Ah well, maybe there isnt any point arguing with people ignorant of the true situation but maybe you should give more weight to the view of those who lived through that very special time when people in that country were fortunate enough to have a *true leader*, a man of vision and integrity looking over them.

[Advocate]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


The current AIDS crisis isnt mandelas fault. It is the fault of the aparthied gov for not doing anything about it when the problem was in its infancy (although black south africans under aparthied had better health care than their 'brothers' anywere else in southern africa). Look at Mbeki to see a real AIDS loon.



I am not blaming Mandela for it, although he didn't do all that much to stop it and Mbeki isn't either. I am not sure how much difference they could have made in any case. However, I do think Mandela is at least partially responsible for South Africa's economic woes.

[headscratcher4]

Originally posted by Advocate


I am not blaming Mandela for it, although he didn't do all that much to stop it and Mbeki isn't either. I am not sure how much difference they could have made in any case. However, I do think Mandela is at least partially responsible for South Africa's economic woes.

Amature:

Mandela's statements were foolish in that "marxist so-long as you're part of the thirdworld it doesn't matter how many you kill or torture I'm with you" sort of way...

however, serious question, why is Mandela more responsible for the bad S. African economy than Aparthide? It was a system that brutally repressed a free economy on the basis of race, economically distributed the wealth to a very small seqment of the population based on race, killed initative and enterprise, based on race, tortured and repressed, based on race. It falls, and somehow after years of neglect, etc. the majority that takes over is supposed to pick up the pieces and make things fly....

My point is that S. Africa's governemnt and economic policies may be a mess, but it is the result of another kind of mess, one created by the racist and ecomically repressive repressive regime that preceeded it. I don't have a solution, it just seems to me that Mandela's rule isn't the beginning of S. Africa's problems...it extends into history and is colored by the poltical and (let us remember the economic repression) that existed in S. A. prior to the fall of aparthied.

My point is, S. Africa was no capitalist paradise polluted by marxism. Marxism may have driven Mandala and his followers, but they were fighting real repression and a regime that, based on race, excluded large segments of the population from most economic, political, healthcare and educational opportunites. No, as bad a government Mandela might have brought, it was, it seems to me, almost inevitable given where he started.

Just some thoughts...

[Jon_in_london]

When Madela was President, what SA needed wasnt a finacial genius, what we needed was a leader. SA wouldnt have had any economy whatsoever, never mind an imperfect one (hows YOUR econmony doing BTW?)

Mandela was that leader, he held the country together. For that he is worth infinitlety more than Abraham Lincoln, IMO.

[Mike B.]

Jon in London,

I hardly think the US and South African economy are on the same plane...

2001 Unemployment - 5% USA
2001 Unemployment - 37% South Africa

% of population living under poverty line:

12.7% USA
50% South Africa

(Source: CIA factbook -2002)

Look even with the problems of the economy in this country, the economy is still growing and unemployment is much lower than other First World countries such as Germany, etc...

As regards to Lincoln. I would say hard to compare. I will say that Mandala had almost the entire world disinvesting itself from South Africa which helped his cause very much.

I do admire the fact that Mandela did end apartied in a way that was not a bloodbath. However, his idea that Bush and Blair are not supporting the UN as much as he wants because Kofi Anan is black is absurd.

[Advocate]

Originally posted by headscratcher4

Mandela's statements were foolish in that "marxist so-long as you're part of the thirdworld it doesn't matter how many you kill or torture I'm with you" sort of way...

And in that "America is the root of all evil" sort of way.


however, serious question, why is Mandela more responsible for the bad S. African economy than Aparthide? It was a system that brutally repressed a free economy on the basis of race, economically distributed the wealth to a very small seqment of the population based on race, killed initative and enterprise, based on race, tortured and repressed, based on race. It falls, and somehow after years of neglect, etc. the majority that takes over is supposed to pick up the pieces and make things fly....
...

I was certainly not praising the previous government. However, replacing a repressive government does not necessarily make you great - otherwise Boris Yeltsin should be a candidate for sainthood. (Don't get me started on HIS flaws either.) Nor would I have expected Mandela to improve the economy immediately, considering he had other things to worry about. What I would have expected was for him to prevent it from getting as much worse as it has.

My point is that S. Africa's governemnt and economic policies may be a mess, but it is the result of another kind of mess, one created by the racist and ecomically repressive repressive regime that preceeded it. I don't have a solution, it just seems to me that Mandela's rule isn't the beginning of S. Africa's problems...it extends into history and is colored by the poltical and (let us remember the economic repression) that existed in S. A. prior to the fall of aparthied.

I never said Mandela's rule was the beginning of the problems. I only said that it contributed to them. The beginning of South Africa's problems goes back long before independence. Back to a time before Mandela was even alive.

My point is, S. Africa was no capitalist paradise polluted by marxism. Marxism may have driven Mandala and his followers, but they were fighting real repression and a regime that, based on race, excluded large segments of the population from most economic, political, healthcare and educational opportunites. No, as bad a government Mandela might have brought, it was, it seems to me, almost inevitable given where he started.

Just some thoughts...

I don't see this as inevitable at all. Every nation has had oppression of one sort or another in its history. Not every nation has fallen victim to Marxism and mismanagement. Since you seem to be misunderstanding my views concerning Mandela, here they are in a nutshell:

Was Mandela 100% responsible for South Africa's woes? NO.
Did he contribute to them? Certainly.
Was Mandela necessary for South Africa to rid itself of apartheid? Probably. And if not necessary, certainly he made the transition less violent than it would otherwise have been.
Were Mandela's policies as president necessary? Definitely not.