UK celebs have been here before

[chillzero]

The ITV have recently begun a new series in the daytime - "Have we been here before", and while I was confined after an operation I thought I'd give it a go and see how well they presented it.

It is a huge load of nonsense, unfortunately.

They have a woman who checks the chakras of the celebrity and then takes them to a relaxed state, and asks them questions about the previous life they then find themselves regressed to. The funniest part of the whole program is when the presenter says that the therapist will use a calming voice to get them in a relaxed state. This woman has the most irritating, high pitched, whiny voice I have ever heard in my life! I would throttle her in minutes.

Anyway, they then film the session and afterward a historian is supposed to check up any 'facts' that were raised. Unfortunately, this historian is completely convinced that everything the celebs say is true, so he doesn't dig too deep.

For example - an ex model said that she was a dancer in an Arabian court, and gave the name of a village, saying it was near the Sahara. He couldn't find it, so he said that this wasn't a problem, because loads of villages around the Sahara get lost under the sand, so it would be impossible to trace it anyway - but he does not question if it ever existed at all.

Another celeb said that he had murdered a duke/ barron - can't remember the title - in medieval England. The historian did not check up any of the names - just checked out that the clothes, job, and daily lilfe that the guy spoke of actually tallied with a date given. Now - anyone who's seen Robin Hood knows enough of how people lived then to fool this guy.

They speak to 2 sceptics, but give them about 15 seconds air time each, so all they get to do is repeat each day that people can believe these things, but that doesn't make them true. They don't get enough opportunity in my opinion to pick out what the historian misses.

All the celebs I watched are pre-disposed to believe this is all true, but it is funny to see how one or two of them contradict themselves, or go back on what was said in their sessions. They all find reasons in the past life for - why they don't like water.... why they don't trust people easily... why they like to be very active and take risks...

The Arabian dancer woman claimed she was drowned by a servant. When asked if she recognised her, she said 'no' during the session. Then when she was talking about it after she said that she immediately recognised the servant who drowned her. The sad thing is - she says it is a person she knows in this life, who had been placed in a position of trust. I think she will now act on her regression by affecting her relationship with this person. Of course - she may have visualised this because of underlying existing problems that have been on her mind already, in which case, she should possibly act on those feelings, but not go and sever a friendship because she thinks the person murdered her in a previous life!!!!

Very unfortunate - this could have been a great program.

Anyone else seen it?

[Azrael 5]

I might tape an episode to see how bad it is.Seen it advertised,and as you say it looks terrible.;)

[Odin]

I've seen the trailers for it, but haven't watched it yet, It looks like the same woman who is always doing this sort of thing on daytime TV.

Someone should get a room, put her (past lives), Sylvia Brown (spirit world), Jack T Chick (Heaven and lots of Hell), Doreen Virtue (Sylvia + angels), Leo Jean (alien spirits), time cube guy (? no one who values their sanity would look that closely) and a random orb believer in it, and let them battle each other.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by cabby
[B]The ITV have recently begun a new series in the daytime - "Have we been here before", and while I was confined after an operation I thought I'd give it a go and see how well they presented it.

It is a huge load of nonsense, unfortunately.



I watched what might have been the first one, then didn't bother anymore.

I agree with you -- and that's coming from a person who's pretty well convinced that there is a "life after death". Moreover it seems to me that the scientific evidence for reincarnation is fairly compelling and, from a philosophical perspective, reincarnation to me seems to be at least a very viable possibility.

However hypnotic regression provides very poor evidence for reincarnation in my opinion. We certainly know that some are fantasies, and possibly they all could be. The programme didn't scrutinise the evidence sufficiently in my opinion. And the celeb seemed to be convinced too readily (can't recall her name :( ).

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Azrael 5
I might tape an episode to see how bad it is.Seen it advertised,and as you say it looks terrible.;)

Why? Why?? WHY??? So you can congratulate yourself for not being so stupid as to believe in reincarnation???

Why do you guys always seek out the most appalling evidence you can find rather than the best evidence you can find??

None of you seem to be remotely interested in actually trying to find out the truth :(

[Azrael 5]

We know the truth.You're dead..you're dead.Period.

Unless you have astounding evidence to suggest otherwise?

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Azrael 5
We know the truth.You're dead..you're dead.Period.

Unless you have astounding evidence to suggest otherwise?

It's so refreshing to converse with such open minded intelligent people on this board. :rolleyes:

[Odin]

Choose any combination of-


Spirit world (outside our dimension.)

Spirit world (alongside the real world.)

Ghosts/ orbs/ whatever walking/ floating on the earth.

Reincarnation of soul through time.

Reincarnation of energy.

Reincarnaton as any lifeform.

Reincarnation unrestricted by time.

Heaven.

Hell.

Both.

THE HELLFIRE!!!!!!

Hanging around an old farmhouse.

Becoming an animal (possibly a bat or T-Rex.)

Temporary heaven/ Hell/ afterlife.

Afterlife (ruled by [insert name here] being.)

Indistinguishable from this world.

Nothing.

Cubic nothing.

You don't exist anyway.

You are a computer simulation + above.

You are immortal.

You are immortal and only die in other peoples personal dimentions.

You are the only real being and are immortal.

When you die exerything ceases to exit.

Leo Jean sells you.

Your theory here.

zombies.

[Ashles]

Funny how celebrities all had such interesting lives previously.

How come nobody was a binman in the 60s, or a prostitute, or a stamp collector of the 1800s or any one of the billions of people wo lived unexciting humdrum lives without being murdered or amazingly talented, or a member of some 'court' somewhere.

Why are past lives always so much more exciting than present ones?

[TheBoyPaj]

Maybe only the people who live interesting lives get reincarnated. Maybe we're all participating in a big talent contest, and if we don't get famous our souls are snuffed out, to be replaced by a new contestant.

But really famous people, like Cilla Black and Duncan Norvelle, are immortal.

[Ashles]

Originally posted by TheBoyPaj
But really famous people, like Cilla Black and Duncan Norvelle, are immortal.
My Award for Most Disturbing Thing I've Heard All Week goes to TheBoyPj.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Ashles
Funny how celebrities all had such interesting lives previously.

How come nobody was a binman in the 60s, or a prostitute, or a stamp collector of the 1800s or any one of the billions of people wo lived unexciting humdrum lives without being murdered or amazingly talented, or a member of some 'court' somewhere.

Why are past lives always so much more exciting than present ones?

They aren't. Not even the apparent memories gained through hypnotic regression. Indeed the latter are notorious for the mindnumbing dullness and frivolity of the apparent lives recalled.

Another myth believed in by skeptics. You guys really need to do some research rather than simply repeating the same errors other skeptics make.

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
They aren't. Not even the apparent memories gained through hypnotic regression. Indeed the latter are notorious for the mindnumbing dullness and frivolity of the apparent lives recalled.

Another myth believed in by skeptics. You guys really need to do some research rather than simply repeating the same errors other skeptics make.
Ian I think it's fairly obvious to see that I'm talking about the TV regressions. I'm sure it is different with those undertaken as part of university studies - no need to be entertaining for camera.

But seriously, are there any studies you can link to on the subject? Studies with specific details?
I would be genuinely intersted to see if their is any collection of data showing trends in past life regressions - Time Periods, Languages, Skills, Jobs etc.
I think that would be pretty interesting. Do you know of anything like that Ian?

[Odin]

So how do the memorys get moved between bodies, and what determines which ones get through? The human population has rapidly increased, where do the extra souls come from- animals? Aliens? and If so, why are all the regressions (or at least the vast majority of them) human?

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Odin
[B]So how do the memorys get moved between bodies, and what determines which ones get through?



It is my opinion that memories are an intrinsic attribute of the self that brains suppress.




The human population has rapidly increased, where do the extra souls come from- animals? Aliens? and



What extra souls?



If so, why are all the regressions (or at least the vast majority of them) human?

As I said, hypotic regression is poor evidence for reincarnation.

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
As I said, hypotic regression is poor evidence for reincarnation.
Is there any good evdence of past lives?

And any studies like the one I asked about in my previous post?

[Odin]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian

What extra souls?

There are more humans now than there used to be so there are more souls now than there used to be. If souls are reused the extras have to come from somewhere, either souls are still forming/being created, or they come from other species. This should show in experiments ( and TV "experiments" if they were genuine.)

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Odin
[B]There are more humans now than there used to be so there are more souls now than there used to be.

Hmmmm . .sorry . .I can't get my head around the weird logic of skeptics!

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Ashles
Is there any good evdence of past lives?


Oh Ashley! I just posted all the evidence in another thread last night! {sighs}

Here ya go:

Ian Stevenson "American children who claim to remember previous lives," J. Nervous
and Mental Disease 171 (1983) pp. 742-748


Ian Stevenson "Three new cases of the reincarnation type in Sri Lanka with written
records made before verification," J. Sci. Exploration 2, No. 2 (1988)
pp. 217-238


Ian Stevenson "Cases of the reincarnation type in northern India with birthmarks and
birth defects," J. Sci. Exploration 12, No. 2 (1998), pp. 259-293.


Antonia Mills, "A replication study: Three cases of children in
northern India who are said to remember a previous life," J. Sci.
Exploration 3, No. 2 (1989) pp. 133-184


Antonia Mills, "Moslem cases of the reincarnation type in northern
India: A test of the hypothesis of imposed identification, Part I:
Analysis of 26 cases," J. Sci. Exploration 4, No. 2 (1990) pp. 171-188


Antonia Mills, "Moslem cases of the reincarnation type in northern
India: A test of the hypothesis of imposed identification, Part II:
Reports of three cases," J. Sci. Exploration 4, No. 2 (1990) pp.
189-202


Jurgen Keil, "New cases in Burma, Thailand, and Turkey: A limited
field study replication of some aspects of Ian Stevenson's work," J.
Sci. Exploration 5, No. 1 (1991) pp. 27-59


Erlunder Haraldsson, "Children claiming past-life memories: Four cases
in Sri Lanka," J. Sci. Exploration 5, No. 2 (1991) pp. 233-261

The Explanatory Value of the Idea of Reincarnation by Dr. Ian Stevenson. (J. Nerv. Ment. Dis. 164:305-326, 1977.)

The Southeast Asian Interpretation of Gender Dysphoria: An Illustrative Case Report by Dr. Ian Stevenson. (J. Nerv. Ment. Dis. 165:201-208, 1977.)

Characteristics of Cases of the Reincarnation Type Among the Igbo of Nigeria by Dr. Ian Stevenson. (J. Asian and African Studies XXI:204-216, 1986.)

Three New Cases of the Reincarnation Type in Sri Lanka with Written Records Made before Verification by Dr. Ian Stevenson. (J. Nerv. Ment. Dis. 176:741, 1988.)

Does the Socio-Psychological Hypothesis Explain Cases of the Reincarnation Type? by Dr. Ian Stevenson and Dr. Sybo Schouten. (J. Nerv. Ment. Dis. 186:504-506, 1998.)

The Phenomenon of Claimed Memories of Previous Lives: Possible Interpretations and Importance by Dr. Ian Stevenson. (Medical Hypotheses 54(4):652-659, 2000.)

An Unusual Birthmark Case Thought to be Linked to a Person Who Had Previously Died by Dr. Jürgen Keil and Dr. Jim B. Tucker. (Psychological Reports 87:1067-1074, 2000.)

Ropelike Birthmarks on Children Who Claim to Remember Past Lives. by Dr. Ian Stevenson (Psychological Reports 89:142-144, 2001.)

Can Cultural Beliefs Cause a Gender Identity Disorder? by Dr. Jim B. Tucker and Dr. Jürgen Keil. (Journal of Psychology & Human Sexuality 13(2):21-30, 2001.) (Report of a child in Thailand who was born with a birthmark that matched a mark made on the body of his deceased grandmother. As he got older, he claimed to be his grandmother reborn, and he demonstrated cross-gender behavior).

Cases of the Reincarnation Type with Memories from the Intermission Between Lives by Poonam Sharma and Dr. Jim B. Tucker. (Journal of Near-Death Studies 23(2):101-118, 2005.)

[Odin]

Ok, Ian, how do you think reincarnation works?

What is the thing that gets reincarnated?

[Azrael 5]

Which "celebs" are on this show.Ill take a guess..Jade Goody? Kate Lawler? Abi Titmuss?(oh cant be her,she's on some other bag of sh**e)some bloke who used to be the brother of Chris Evans's girlfriend?

Been here before? Some arent even here now on the celeb scale,Ill bet.
Whats the time period for re-incarnation Ian,do you know? Why is no-one re-incarnated by someone who died in the 80's(not Cannon and Ball..Ashles!!);)

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Azrael 5
Which "celebs" are on this show.Ill take a guess..Jade Goody? Kate Lawler? Abi Titmuss?(oh cant be her,she's on some other bag of sh**e)some bloke who used to be the brother of Chris Evans's girlfriend?

Been here before? Some arent even here now on the celeb scale,Ill bet.
Whats the time period for re-incarnation Ian,do you know? Why is no-one re-incarnated by someone who died in the 80's(not Cannon and Ball..Ashles!!);)

I saw Linda Lusardi, Dr Fox, Anneka Rice and that woman who tried to launch a singing career after 'The Cruise'. I'm not sure wo else is scheduled - I couldn't stand watching any more because the historical 'verification' was driving me nuts, as well as the therapists voice.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Azrael 5
Which "celebs" are on this show.Ill take a guess..Jade Goody? Kate Lawler? Abi Titmuss?(oh cant be her,she's on some other bag of sh**e)some bloke who used to be the brother of Chris Evans's girlfriend?

Been here before? Some arent even here now on the celeb scale,Ill bet.
Whats the time period for re-incarnation Ian,do you know? Why is no-one re-incarnated by someone who died in the 80's(not Cannon and Ball..Ashles!!);)

The evidence suggests that a violent end to ones previous life makes one reincarnate sooner. It is these people who tend to remember previous lives although almost all of them lose their memories of their previous lives by the age of about 7.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Odin
Ok, Ian, how do you think reincarnation works?

What is the thing that gets reincarnated?

The self -- in other words that which remains unchanged throughout various psychological states and indeed throughout your life.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
The self -- in other words that which remains unchanged throughout various psychological states and indeed throughout your life.
In other words, nothing at all.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by cabby
[B]I saw Linda Lusardi, Dr Fox, Anneka Rice

Anneka Rice! Yeah that's the name of the girl I couldn't remember.

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
In other words, nothing at all.

Nothing at all from the materialist perspective. Not nothing at all for those who believe in a "life after death". The self is that which survives. Under materialism there is nothing to survive.

[Odin]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
The self -- in other words that which remains unchanged throughout various psychological states and indeed throughout your life.

How is this different to the soul?

How does the reincarnation happen?

How and when does the self form? How far does it reincarnate through time?

[Azrael 5]

Originally posted by Interesting Ian
Anneka Rice! Yeah that's the name of the girl I couldn't remember.
Thats what all those years presenting Treasure Hunt gives you...a vivid imagination!! :D

[Jas]

Originally posted by Ashles
Funny how celebrities all had such interesting lives previously.

How come nobody was a binman in the 60s, or a prostitute, or a stamp collector of the 1800s or any one of the billions of people wo lived unexciting humdrum lives without being murdered or amazingly talented, or a member of some 'court' somewhere.

Why are past lives always so much more exciting than present ones?

I've often wondered that myself. Case in point, a co-workers mil is convinced that she was Cleopatra (or maybe Nefertiti? I can't recall right now), in a past life.

BTW, laughing at your co-worker's mil is never a good idea.

[Ashles]

Ian thanks for the links.

By the way Ian, your surname isn't Stevenson is it?

[Interesting Ian]

Originally posted by Ashles
Ian thanks for the links.

By the way Ian, your surname isn't Stevenson is it?

Don't be so ridiculous Ashley.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Jas
I've often wondered that myself. Case in point, a co-workers mil is convinced that she was Cleopatra (or maybe Nefertiti? I can't recall right now), in a past life.

BTW, laughing at your co-worker's mil is never a good idea.
Simple. It was a past life time-sharing scheme, just like a condo in Florida.
They get a lot of call for Cleo. Also, the asp.

[sophia8]

<Assumption that reincarnation is possible>Anyone who was an adult in a past life would have developed some sort of practical skill or knowledge; especially if they lived more than a century or so ago.
So, a test for reincarnatees would be to ask them to demonstrate this skill (it would of course have to be a skill that they have never developed in this lifetime).
For instance, in the case of the reincarnated Arabian dancer, she could have been asked how she made her cosmetics, and what sort of medicines she used for common dancers' injuries.
If you had somebody claimng to be a farmer, give them a live pig and a sharp knife and invite them to demonstrate how they made suasages.
And so on. Mind you, thinking up a good test for reincarnated royalty would be difficult. For the Kings and Emperors, I suppose you could put them on a pawing, snorting charger and see how commanding they look. But I can't presently think of how Queens and Cleopatras might be tested. </assumption>

[Soapy Sam]

But these people DID have previous lives! They were TV presenters and comedians. Then they died. Everyone forgot them. Now their cronies who still have jobs have managed to weasel them one more paid moment in the limelight! They are reborn!

Sorry. I woke up cynical today.

One question: Given the apparent time independence pf psi in general, why do we never hear of any future lives?

I would pay good money for a chat with a stockbroker from the future.

[Odin]

Its a pity there are no future lives because when I was younger I had a theory that there was only one soul, that kept getting reincarnated, randomly through time, has this been thought of before? If it hasn't I can start my own cult based on it, maybe-eventually you will reincarnate as me, so send me money! :D

[Soapy Sam]

That's a variant of Soapy's Theory (TM) that there is only one photon, which zooms about through spacetime being everywhere at once and weaving the magic web.
Suggestions that it interferes with itself are being examined by my lawyers.