Bad Effects of Allopathic Medicines?

[Homeo Man]

I daily see many patients which mostly come from allopathic background. This is a case, which I am going to share with my fellow members.

She is 35 years old woman, unmarried.

She reports the following story.

“I was suffering with sneezing and coryza. I reported my case to allopathic doctor. They treated me for three months without having improvement. During treatment, I also faced blood oozing from my nostrils. That was the bad effect of “WARM” allopathic medicines. Doctors said, don’t worry, you will be perfectly all right. Just carry on with these NEW allopathic medicines, which are “researched products”.

My condition gone worse, they said, polyps have been developed in the nostrils. They referred me to ENT surgeon. Surgeon put me on allopathic drugs for one month more. A stage comes, when I face great difficulty in my respiration. My nose got blocked. I was unable to sleep.

http://img179.echo.cx/img179/6788/woman4ya.jpg

Image edited to link. The image may be disturbing to some Members since it features a very disfigured lady.

Doctor decided to operate my nostrils. Surgeon was FRCS from UK. He had 25 years of experience. I spent my whole money on my treatment. He operated, operation was not successful.

He again put me on medicines. After three months, he decided again, I should undergone another operation. I had no choice. He operated but failed to achieve good result. Due to severe infection, my nose become dumble shape. Doctors said, I think, you must consult another professor doctor who recently came from USA and teahing in medical college. You report your case to that doctor.

USA doctor examined my nose and said, BIBI (woman) you are under great risk of developing cancer. I said, How? He said, due to bad effects of allopathic medicines, your nose cells are showing some kind of degenerations.

If you need your life then I have to remove your nose. I said, any other choice. He said, I have no option left. He finally removed my nose in order to save my life.”

Does allopathic drugs cause side effects?

Is this the case of side effects of allopathic medicine or bad diagnosis or poor management?

My question is, is this the bad effect of allopathy or it was a new disease or progress of the old / existing disease.

I am removing your avatar whilst the Mod Team considers if it is appropriate for the forum or not. Until such time as a decision is made do not reuse the same picture or a similar one for your avatar, doing so may result in further sanctions.

[Homeo Man]

I will post the details of this case lator on

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=57544


she is now begger. She has no money to get treatment. She cannot move to her residence which is located in another city. She is under my treatment.

[The Don]

Why have you included what looks like a very crudely photoshopped picture in your almost certainly fictitious account ?

[Ashles]

Well it's a bit hard to comment without know what she was actually treated with, and what complications have arisen.
If she was developing cancerous growths in her nose then what other course of treatment would you have recommended?

And if she is a patient of yours, why did you photograph her sitting in the street? Wouldn't it have been kinder to photogaph her in the surgery?

And would she really appreciate being made into your avatar on an internet message forum?

I think it is fairly obvious what kind of point you are trying to make, but this is bordering on breaking forum rules - posting unpleasant pictures solely in order to criticise allpopathic medicine.

ETA: It is also very hard to believe an internationally renowned surgeon would leave an operation looking like that (I don't know if that is photoshopped otr not - it might well not be). And how did she afford to pay what would have been colossal fees in the first place?

Oh, one more thing Homeo - could you ask your patient what the names of the UK and US surgeons were please? Thank you.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
I daily see many patients which mostly come from allopathic background.What do you mean by the word "allopathic?" Do you mean a genuinely allopathic (i.e. based on the idea of balancing "humours") system such as ayurveda or TCM, or are you using the word as a derogatory term for proper medical treatment.

Your use of the expression “WARM” allopathic medicines suggests that the earlier treatment may well have been some sort of "humour-balancing" system, as this sort of characterisation of treatments is used in those systems but not in Western medicine.

[Ashles]

Maybe for ease of reference and clarity we should simply describe 'Western' or 'Modern' Medicine as 'Real medicine' and then call the alternatives whatever we like.

[Vikram]

Is this the best you can do, Homeo Man?

In the absence of any evidence or scientific basis for Homeopathy, all you can do is provide disfigured faces to drag 'allopathy' through the mud?

So you forget the millions of people with meningitis and pneumonia and life-threatening cellulitis who have been cured using antibiotics, or the millions of mothers who are alive today because anti-hemorrhagic drugs prevented them from bleeding to death on the labor table? How about the bloodclots evacuated from sub-dural spaces or the tension pneumothoraces drained? Gone are the accomplishments of Landsteiner and Koch, Pasteur and Ross, Nobel Prize winners who have each revolutionized the way medicine is done.

All that is required to demolish all of that is a wise homeopath, who posts a disturbing picture of a woman's damaged face and asks us skeptics a question that, though ungrammatical, shakes us to our very core: "Does allopathic drugs cause side effects?"

Thank you Homeo Man. You have opened our eyes to the reality of the matter. You have taught us that the best system of medicine is the one that has NO side-effects whatsoever. Homeopathy has no side-effects because it simply has NO effects at all. The fact that it cannot cure ANY illness is of course irrelevant to the matter.

Long live homeopathy!

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
Doctor decided to operate my nostrils. Surgeon was FRCS from UK. He had 25 years of experience.

...

Doctors said, I think, you must consult another professor doctor who recently came from USA and teahing in medical college. You report your case to that doctor.
Once again, in case you missed my request, could you provide the names of these Doctors/Surgeons please?

[wahrheit]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
I daily see many patients which mostly come from allopathic background. This is a case, which I am going to share with my fellow members.
Fine, now that you have seen this patient, tell us: How is she doing now? The picture you posted of your patient is from November 2004. I'm sure she has greatly improved by now, and you can take a picture of her in your hospital, instead of a street snapshot like a journalist would do.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Vikram
Is this the best you can do, Homeo Man?

In the absence of any evidence or scientific basis for Homeopathy, all you can do is provide disfigured faces to drag 'allopathy' through the mud?

So you forget the millions of people with meningitis and pneumonia and life-threatening cellulitis who have been cured using antibiotics, or the millions of mothers who are alive today because anti-hemorrhagic drugs prevented them from bleeding to death on the labor table? How about the bloodclots evacuated from sub-dural spaces or the tension pneumothoraces drained? Gone are the accomplishments of Landsteiner and Koch, Pasteur and Ross, Nobel Prize winners who have each revolutionized the way medicine is done.

All that is required to demolish all of that is a wise homeopath, who posts a disturbing picture of a woman's damaged face and asks us skeptics a question that, though ungrammatical, shakes us to our very core: "Does allopathic drugs cause side effects?"

Thank you Homeo Man. You have opened our eyes to the reality of the matter. You have taught us that the best system of medicine is the one that has NO side-effects whatsoever. Homeopathy has no side-effects because it simply has NO effects at all. The fact that it cannot cure ANY illness is of course irrelevant to the matter.

Long live homeopathy! You're playing a dangeous game here. These clowns are dishonest enough to quote people out of context and claim that they support homeopathy even when it's obvious that they don't. And I'm not sure that they know the meaning of the word "irony" either.

Edited to add:
That's by no means the only word they claim not to know the meaning of:
Originally posted by Non-Sense Homeopath
"Dishonest" What does this mean?

[Gaga]

Ok, perhaps I'm biased, but the lady got in for a cold and got out like that? isn't it a bit far fetched? :rolleyes:
Maybe homeo man could provide some more details. What exactly she has been treated for? I suppose it wasn't just a cold, right? What medicines or treatment had she?
What are you doing for her at the moment?

Is the chance to get a straight answer to any of these question greater than 10^-24?

[Rolfe]

Funny, that. My cousin's husband had nasal polyps. He had a series of operations, and the last one managed to cure them completely. He looks, and has always looked, perfectly normal.

He also developed colon cancer - people with nasal polyps have an increased risk of this. He had an operation, 7 years ago, and again he was completely cured.

And he has never been near a homoepath.

Rolfe.

[Zep]

In response to your thread title, KUMAR, the answer is a resounding "NO".

And I'll bet you a real hit telling these horror stories to the children as bed-time tales too.

[Nucular]

Homeo Man,

Why on earth should we believe your implausible claim? After you and your colleagues have already admitted attempting to play some childish game which involves wasting the time of everyone here on this forum?

I think there's about as much chance of your fairy tale being accurate as there is of finding a molecule of mother tincture in your magic water. But, given that, however astronomically unlikely, this at least means there's a possibility that you're not just a lying liar, I'm just wondering if you got that poor woman's permission to paste her picture all over the internet as part of your trolling activities? If so, I wonder if you could corroborate this in some way?

But most of all, I'd like you to answer Ashles' request:

provide the names of the Western doctors and surgeons you mentioned.

Thankyou.

[Rolfe]

Maybe one of the human-type medics here could hazard a guess as to what disease the poor lady in the picture is actually suffering from? Leprosy? The sad thing is that leprosy is entirely treatable and manageable, but people in poorer communities lack the resources to be able to handle the protocols.

I would hazard a guess that Homeo Man has never even seen this lady, and merely swiped the picture from somewhere and made up a string of lies to accompany it.

Hey, MAS collective, can homoeopathy cure leprosy (Hansen's disease)? Care to provide some evidence?

Rolfe.

[Kumar]

Have you heard about "Baba Ramdev" in India? Within in short period of abot 3/4 year, it is said that about 250 million people all over the world are practicing simple "Pranayam-yoga" breathing excercises with some diet control & Ayurvedic herbal medicines as adviced by him. Most of them got astonishing benefits & even non-curable diseases are cured. Arteries blockages, high Tg, high BP, diabetes. kidney problems. obesity & other diseases are said to be easily cured within a very short time by these simple excercises. Many doctors, govenment big officers, big & small people are taking his treatments and said to be much benefitting.

http://divyayoga.com/press.htm

250 miliion with daily increase--Is it not bit next wonder of the world as all these(may be much more) can't be illitrate or gullible? Camps, TV channels, cassetes & CDs, books etc. are some mode of this spread, nothing much controvesy as yet.

http://divyayoga.com

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Have you heard about "Baba Ramdev" in India? Within in short period of abot 3/4 year, it is said that about 250 million people all over the world are practicing simple "Pranayam-yoga" breathing excecises with some diet control & Ayurvedic herbal medicines as adviced by him. Most of them got astonishing benefits & even non-curable diseases are cured. Arteries blockages, high Tg, high BP, diabetes. obesity & other diseases are said to be easily cured by these simple excercises. Many doctors, govenment big officers, big & small people are taking his treatments ans said to me much benefitting. 250 miliion with daily increase--Is it not bit next wonder of the world as all these(may be much more) can't be illitrate or gullible? Camps, TV channels, cassetes & CDs, books etc. are some mode of this spread, nothing much controvesy as yet.

http://divyayoga.com
Kumar, you are the absolute pinnacle of gullibility.

[Ashles]

On a whim I decided to visit the homeopathy forums mentioned in Homeo Man's sig.

A very quiet place.

I noticed an area entitled
Research Light (http://www.homeopathy.forumsplace.com/forum-9.html)
"For those wishing to discuss the scientific approach to homeopathy"

Topics - 0
Posts - 0

What a surprise.

In another area there is a request to enter details of every case anyone has ever cured or observed.
So far there are 2 posts, and neither of them mentions a cured case.

Ironically they are discussing diaorrhea. Basically they're talking sh...

Oh you know how this gag ends.

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Kumar
Have you heard about "Baba Ramdev" in India? Within in short period of abot 3/4 year, it is said that about 250 million people all over the world are practicing simple "Pranayam-yoga" breathing excercises with some diet control & Ayurvedic herbal medicines as adviced by him.
Excellent. Well no doubt we will soon suddenly see a massive improvement in India's appalling levels of healthcare, infant mortality and life expectancy figures.

Incidentally, why are so many people turning to Baba Ramdev? Is homeopathy not working out for them?

Or is this alternative alternative medicine?

[Nucular]

Originally posted by Kumar
Have you heard about "Baba Ramdev" in India? Within in short period of abot 3/4 year, it is said that about 250 million people all over the world are practicing simple "Pranayam-yoga" breathing excercises with some diet control & Ayurvedic herbal medicines as adviced by him. India (where Pranayam-yoga was invented by Baba Ramdev): (http://www.who.int/countries/ind/en/)
Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 60.0/63.0
Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 283/213

United Kingdom (where probably no-one practises Pranayam-yoga): (http://www.who.int/countries/gbr/en/)
Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 76.0/81.0
Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 103/64

Moral #1: don't practice Pranayam-yoga
Moral #2: spend the money you were going to spend on Pranayam-yoga "Camps, TV channels, cassetes & CDs, books etc." on food, shelter & proper healthcare
Moral #3: make Baba Ramdev donate his presumably vast profits to developing a proper health service in India
Moral #4: shut up

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Mojo
You're playing a dangeous game here. These clowns are dishonest enough to quote people out of context and claim that they support homeopathy even when it's obvious that they don't. And I'm not sure that they know the meaning of the word "irony" either.
By Jove! I wouldn't put that beyond them. Reminds me of the time I saw Hawking misquoted to sound like he believed in God.

[Nucular]

Originally posted by Vikram
Hawking ... believed in God. So you admit that Hawking believed in God? ;)


sorry

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Vikram
By Jove! I wouldn't put that beyond them. Reminds me of the time I saw Hawking misquoted to sound like he believed in God.
There's a delightful misquoting of Mark Twain on the NCH Pakistan Forums on this thread (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=17) .

Quote as described by homeopathic proponents:
Mark Twain said
Quote: "The introduction of homeopathy forced the old school doctor to stir around and learn something of a rational nature about his business. You may honestly feel grateful that homeopathy survived the attempts of allopaths (the orthodox physicians to destroy it."

The actual full quote:
"When you reflect that your own father had to take such medicines as the above, and that you would be taking them today yourself, but for the introduction of homoeopathy, which forced the old school doctor to stir around and learn something of a rational nature about his business, you may honestly feel grateful that homoeopathy survived the attempts of the allopathists to destroy it, even though you may never employ any physician but an allopathist while you live."

Kind of gives a different impression when you hear the whole thing and don't selectively quote chunks.

In this whole recent exchange I have generally found the homeopaths to behave appallingly childishly, and now they have reached new levels in resorting to the shock tactics of this thread.

They have done their cause no good at all.

Well done Dr. MAS. Well done all NCH Pakistan members. You have disgraced yourselves publicly.

It seems like it is just the arrogance of wanting to play doctor, without giving a damn about the welfare of patients, or wanting to actually study medicine or science, and in fact to actively question and ridicule proven scientific remedies.

This whole thing is really very unpleasant.

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Maybe one of the human-type medics here could hazard a guess as to what disease the poor lady in the picture is actually suffering from? Leprosy?
Does look like it. That, or a particularly bad case of Photoshopitis.

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Nucular
So you admit that Hawking believed in God? ;)
:mad: "Vikram's wrath will be terrible, his retribution swift.":mad:

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Nucular
So you admit that Hawking believed in God? ;)
"Vikram's wrath will be terrible, his retribution swift."

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Vikram
Does look like it. That, or a particularly bad case of Photoshopitis.
One point against this being leprosy: she has no amputated digits. Such extensive facial involvement with intact fingers would be very rare.

She could have cutaneous Donovanosis but this wouldn't be a typical presentation at all. Furthermore, it wouldn't require resection of the nose.

Though I could be mistaken, I'm personally inching towards Photoshopitis, especially considering how black the area where her nose ought to be is. One would expect to see at least some remnants of the inner nasal septum. Also, the face looks more like an amateurish smudge job than a real illness.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Vikram
"Vikram's ............. ................will be terrible

__________________
............................ Stupidity.................................. .


You said it!

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Nucular
India (where Pranayam-yoga was invented by Baba Ramdev): (http://www.who.int/countries/ind/en/)
Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 60.0/63.0
Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 283/213

United Kingdom (where probably no-one practises Pranayam-yoga): (http://www.who.int/countries/gbr/en/)
Life expectancy at birth m/f (years): 76.0/81.0
Adult mortality m/f (per 1000): 103/64

Moral #1: don't practice Pranayam-yoga
Moral #2: spend the money you were going to spend on Pranayam-yoga "Camps, TV channels, cassetes & CDs, books etc." on food, shelter & proper healthcare
Moral #3: make Baba Ramdev donate his presumably vast profits to developing a proper health service in India
Moral #4: shut up

But Still one of the most populated...bad luck. :D

Does somewhat alike this happen in nature for "Surrvival of Fittest", "Nature's balance" or "Natural selections"? Is it better/natural to carry forward all good or bad or just the fittest???

His work also may also be against the nature or agaist the modern age indication or try balancing by natural means of created much imbalances by unnatural means. May homeopathy or other ancient systems be alike it & your's might be best entitled to handle created modern imbalances by unnatural means.
;)

[Kumar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Ashles
Excellent. Well no doubt we will soon suddenly see a massive improvement in India's appalling levels of healthcare, infant mortality and life expectancy figures.

Yes? This is his GOAL/MOTTO, but.....what will happen to Nature's balance?:D

Incidentally, why are so many people turning to Baba Ramdev? Is homeopathy not working out for them?

Or is this alternative alternative medicine?

Probably these may be from other than homeopathic community.:) So many modern people still are out of homeopathic community. However some can also go there from homeopathic community BUT may bring/attract much more along with them, who will have "alternative" taste but may become lazy to practice/work much--a common human nature of modern world. ;) :p

" Many "alternatives" can attract by will BUT few/one can drag/pull by unwill alike rape " :D

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Kumar
But Still one of the most populated...bad luck. :D
What's the relevency of that? You'd rather live somewhere crowded than healthy?

Does somewhat alike this happen in nature for "Surrvival of Fittest", "Nature's balance" or "Natural selections"? Is it better/natural to carry forward all good or bad or just the fittest???
Well humans are social animals and looking after each other increases chances of our DNA propogating. So keeping each other alive is pefectly natural.

But if that is what you think about the importance of letting the unfit or unhealthy die then I now think I understand your continued support of homeopathy

His work also may also be against the nature or agaist the modern age indication or try balancing by natural means of created much imbalances by unnatural means. May homeopathy or other ancient systems be alike it & your's might be best entitled to handle created modern imbalances by unnatural means.
;)
Homeopathy isn't 'natural', and it isn't 'best entitled' to handle any medical complaint.
That's really as simple as it gets.

[Kumar]

Are we making ourselves, our children or destroying? Are we making other species or destroying them by suggesting thier natural balances, prunings, thinning etc? Are we naturally balanced/fittest/in perfect hormony or jungle/natural inhabitants? Is our selfishness making us or destroying us ultimately?? Whather modern system can balance us as per nature or ancient systems? What is what??

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Are we making ourselves, our children or destroying?
Depends. What do you teach your children?
Are we making other species or destroying them by suggesting thier natural balances, prunings, thinning etc?
How does one suggest a natural balance?
Are we naturally balanced/fittest/in perfect hormony or jungle/natural inhabitants?
Define "perfect harmony." Then find one point in time for one humanity when it has been in "perfect harmony."
Is our selfishness making us or destroying us ultimately??
What selfishness?
Whather modern system can balance us as per nature or ancient systems?
Why would we want them to?
What is what??
"What" is a Unix program used to find the revision code of a command.

[LostAngeles]

I sincerely believe I've seen that picture before. I want to say in a National Geographic or something, however, I'm not entirely sure and as it's a "belief" you should all probably take with as much seriousness as you do such statements as, "Homeopathy is wonderful and it works."

[Mouthfire]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
blah blah blah

This story is a fabrication, pure and simple.... As someone who works in the medical field, I know of NO ANTIBIOTIC that causes nasal polyps or cancer. Furthermore, I don't know ANY doctor or surgeon that would make such a claim.

Even your reference to "WARM" allopathic medicines is total bunk. Western medicine has no classification of "warm" medications.

I mean, seriously... if you're going to make up a such a silly story about western medication, I'd think you'd AT LEAST do a bit of research so that it's at least a bit plausible....

:rolleyes:

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by Kumar
Are we making ourselves, our children or destroying? Are we making other species or destroying them by suggesting thier natural balances, prunings, thinning etc? Are we naturally balanced/fittest/in perfect hormony or jungle/natural inhabitants? Is our selfishness making us or destroying us ultimately?? Whather modern system can balance us as per nature or ancient systems? What is what??

Kumar, are you still taking your insulin?

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by Homeo Man


http://img179.echo.cx/img179/6788/woman4ya.jpg

Image edited to link. The image may be disturbing to some Members since it features a very disfigured lady.


Hmmm. Now that the pic has been removed and only the link remains, I find it curious that someone from Pakistan would title a picture of patient "woman4ya.jpg".

[Beleth]

This is a perfect example of the reasoning behind my "read no posts with a question mark in the subject line" New Year's Resolution this year.

I didn't keep it, of course, but this thread makes me wish I had.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Maybe one of the human-type medics here could hazard a guess as to what disease the poor lady in the picture is actually suffering from?No. Let's cut to the chase. "Homeo Man" has resorted to shock tactics and attacking what he regards as proper medicine because he is fully aware that he has no explanation for homeopathy and no evidence that homeopathy works. He is a fraud and a troll (and possibly a sock).

In vino veritas.

[Mojo]

And by the way, Kumar, by trolling in this thread you have confirmed yourself as being the pathetic excuse for a human being that I have for a long time suspected you of being.

[Kumar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donks
Depends. What do you teach your children?

Yes, what we are teaching- modern lifestyle?

How does one suggest a natural balance?

Without interfearing the nature

Define "perfect harmony." Then find one point in time for one humanity when it has been in "perfect harmony."

Whatever kept us survived for so long since our evolution. Look at other species where they live naturally.

What selfishness?

Dealing ourselves diferently than dealing other species. Bird flue, mad cow disease etc.

Why would we want them to?

To continue & encourage modern systems till nature's balance is acheived. These may be best entitled for most, now.

"What" is a Unix program used to find the revision code of a command.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Yes, what we are teaching- modern lifestyle?
I sure hope so. Life was hard in the Middle Ages.
Without interfearing the nature
How do you accomplish that in the face of an illness?

Whatever kept us survived for so long since our evolution.
You mean our ability to transform our environment and to adapt?
Look at other species where they live naturally.
Point out one spiecies that lives "unnaturally."
Dealing ourselves diferently than dealing other species.
Should we teach cows how to read? Dress up penguins?
How do you want to deal with other species?
Bird flue, mad cow disease etc.
?
To continue & encourage modern systems till nature's balance is acheived.
What "balance"?
These may be best entitled for most, now.
Says who? Modern systems sure seem to help a lot more people than ancient systems.

[Kumar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donks
I sure hope so. Life was hard in the Middle Ages.

Why we want to make it unnaturally soft?

How do you accomplish that in the face of an illness?

Probaby these may be tools of natural balances or surrvival of fittest or natural selection.

You mean our ability to transform our environment and to adapt?

No, but natural systems.

Point out one spiecies that lives "unnaturally."

We & others who live along with us in unnatural lifestyle.

Should we teach cows how to read? Dress up penguins?
How do you want to deal with other species?
?

I meant our attitude towards them & towards us on getting harming diseases to others.



What "balance"?

To be in pefect harmony to each other Check internet about pollutions, over/imbalanced population, modern lifestyle effects or other modern creation.

Says who? Modern systems sure seem to help a lot more people than ancient systems.

In nature, no one much/unduly help/interfere in each other.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Why we want to make it unnaturally soft?
Must be our survival instinct. Or our aversion to pain. Or our ability to empathize with those who are suffering.
Probaby these may be tools of natural balances or surrvival of fittest or natural selection.
That wasn't the question. Are you advocating that no medical treatments be used on any illnesses?
No, but natural systems.
What natural systems? We survived by taming animals and plants, and by killing whatever else stared at us funny.
We & others who live along with us in unnatural lifestyle.
What in our lifestyle is "unnatural"? Which part of our lifestyle didn't come 100% from nature? Which piece of technology did we manage to sprout full grown without using materials from nature?
I meant our attitude towards them & towards us on getting harming diseases to others.
You think diseases don't pass from one animal to another, when living in "nature"?
To be in pefect harmony to each other Check internet about pollutions, over/imbalanced population, modern lifestyle effects or other modern creation.
You think animal populations in nature never suffered overpopulation?
In nature, no one much/unduly help/interfere in each other.
In nature everyone eats everyone else. I'd call that "interfering." And again, do you advocate eliminating all medical treatments, and all social assistance programs and charitable organizations?

[Homeo Man]

Darat,

Thanks for the advice.

[Homeo Man]

Originally posted by The Don
Why have you included what looks like a very crudely photoshopped picture in your almost certainly fictitious account ?

Do you also not believe on "FICTITIOUS" accounts?

Your account is not fictitious?

I have a look around at NCH forum and seen a post by a user name "Perptal notion". Who is that person?

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

[Perpetual Notion]

I have no idea, but I've never created an account over there or posted over there, nor am I going over there to look at whatever you've trolled up. Liar.

[Homeo Man]

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
I have no idea, but I've never created an account over there or posted over there, nor am I going over there to look at whatever you've trolled up. Liar.

ok

I thought, you are there.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

Its all right. :(

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
ok

I thought, you are there.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

Its all right. :(

Oh goody. I'm so relieved. :rolleyes:

The only thing that's fictitious around here is that picture of the woman that you posted. Now you want to go back to accusing people of using fake accounts again instead of owning up to the fact that you lied. You're not worth the energy it takes to type this. I'm going to bed. Have fun playing your pathetic little game tonight. Liar.

[Perpetual Notion]

Just reposting my earlier post which is why I guess you tried to use my username to troll the other forum. And just in case you didn't, I don't want you to miss it again. This is why I'm calling you a liar. Good night.

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
Hmmm. Now that the pic has been removed and only the link remains, I find it curious that someone from Pakistan would title a picture of patient "woman4ya.jpg".

[Vikram]

Homeo Man,

To help us understand better what happened to the poor woman, would you please post a link to another picture of her - a close-up taken at a slightly different angle? A lateral profile would be good because it would help us all understand the extent of damage better. I'm sure that such pictures must be part of your extensive documentation of this case. Please share them with us.

[Mouthfire]

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
Just reposting my earlier post which is why I guess you tried to use my username to troll the other forum. And just in case you didn't, I don't want you to miss it again. This is why I'm calling you a liar. Good night.

Heheh... did you notice that your "alter ego" on the other forum uses imperfect English in the style of our Pakistani friends? :D

From "Perpetual Notion" from the other site. Ahem... In my opinion, homeopaths are playing game. This is not true story...

So let's see... they're not good at impersonating other people, they're not good at chemistry, they're not good at research, they're not good at telling the truth, and they're not even good at lying....

Aren't homeopaths good for anything??? :D

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Mouthfire
Aren't homeopaths good for anything??? :D
Trolling!

Actually, they aren't even doing a good job at that...

[Kumar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donks
Must be our survival instinct. Or our aversion to pain. Or our ability to empathize with those who are suffering.

Does it mean that you make people to sit comfortably in an Air conditioned close room or in a car or birds/animals in cages in place of sitting them under a tree with cool & open air or devoid of walking or a nest/cave?

That wasn't the question. Are you advocating that no medical treatments be used on any illnesses?

Natural & social angles can be different, sometimes just opposite.

What natural systems? We survived by taming animals and plants, and by killing whatever else stared at us funny.
What in our lifestyle is "unnatural"? Which part of our lifestyle didn't come 100% from nature? Which piece of technology did we manage to sprout full grown without using materials from nature?

Taking a fruit in its natural form can be natural but taking it in some processed form can be unnatural. Alike all other foods. Burning woods for cooking food can be natural but microwave ovens, gas cooking, electric cooking can be unnatural. Walking or traveling on animals can be natural wheras traveling by car, aeroplanes..can be unnatural. A cave, a nest, a tree shelter, a cottage made from items in their natural forms, a jungle, a bath under waterfall..is natural whereas modern concrete jungles, shadows, bath in bathroom under shower..can be unnatural. Cloths made from cotton, natural fibers are natural but from synthetic fibers are unnatural. Alike it you can compare million of things OR can search google for natural & unnatural things. Whatever is new to us of which we do not having inherant sense of its right or wrong or whatever to which we are not habituated and adapted to, can be unnatural--as most modern things. There is a harmony or balance of all things in nature. Any deviation from this harmony can be taken as 'nature's imbalance' somewhat alike homeostatis. 3 apple, 3 pears & 3 lemons taken 1 each by three person can be a balance whereas each take all three of each can be said as imbalance....

Many or most people do enjoy going into the nature from cities.

You think diseases don't pass from one animal to another, when living in "nature"?

You are taking it differently. I meant we advocate killing of other species if posing them danger to humans but save the humans in similar situations(AIDS)--so selfishness.

You think animal populations in nature never suffered overpopulation?

Yes they can but they are then balanced, we may not by out interferances.

In nature everyone eats everyone else. I'd call that "interfering." And again, do you advocate eliminating all medical treatments, and all social assistance programs and charitable organizations?

Yes but to certain limit on "give & take' or 'live & let live' rules not "Let us only live" rule. Although "might is right" "Survival of fittest" is also said. :) Social/unnatural & natural angles, self & whole considerations are different--may be bit opposite. What you prefer is your choice.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Vikram
Trolling!

Actually, they aren't even doing a good job at that...

Still continuing alongwith them since long. :confused:

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Kumar
Taking a fruit in its natural form can be natural but taking it in some processed form can be unnatural. Alike all other foods. Burning woods for cooking food can be natural but microwave ovens, gas cooking, electric cooking can be unnatural. Walking or traveling on animals can be natural wheras traveling by car, aeroplanes..can be unnatural. A cave, a nest, a tree shelter, a cottage made from items in their natural forms, a jungle, a bath under waterfall..is natural whereas modern concrete jungles, shadows, bath in bathroom under shower..can be unnatural. Cloths made from cotton, natural fibers are natural but from synthetic fibers are unnatural. Alike it you can compare million of things OR can search google for natural & unnatural things. Whatever is new to us of which we do not having inherant sense of its right or wrong or whatever to which we are not habituated and adapted to, can be unnatural--as most modern things. There is a harmony or balance of all things in nature. Any deviation from this harmony can be taken as 'nature's imbalance' somewhat alike homeostatis. 3 apple, 3 pears & 3 lemons taken 1 each by three person can be a balance whereas each take all three of each can be said as imbalance....Here you are, off on your "natural" kick yet again.

Tell me, do you think successively diluting and shaking a remedy using manufactured glassware (not a naturally occuring product) and then dropping the resulting solution onto a pill made of purified sugar can be considered to be a "natural" process?

Are you seriously suggesting that cooking food by burning wood is natural but cooking food by burning gas is unnatural? The effect on the food, assuming that the same temperature is reached, will be exactly the same. Although I suppose it's possible that naturally occuring oils in some types of wood could give rise to carcinogens when the wood is burned. Do you think this is a good thing? I'm betting you don't do the cooking in your family.
You are taking it differently. I meant we advocate killing of other species if posing them danger to humans but save the humans in similar situations(AIDS)--so selfishness.And if you really think HIV is a species worth preserving, why don't you start a charity for it?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Does it mean that you make people to sit comfortably in an Air conditioned close room or in a car or birds/animals in cages in place of sitting them under a tree with cool & open air or devoid of walking or a nest/cave?
I don't "make" people do anything. Including forcing them to die or suffer needlessly.
Natural & social angles can be different, sometimes just opposite.
That wasn't the question. Are you advocating that no medical treatments be used on any illnesses?

...snip...

Yes they can but they are then balanced, we may not by out interferances.
Just how exactly are they "balanced"? Perhaps by a whole lot of death? Is that what you are suggesting should happen? Who should be culled from the herd?

Yes but to certain limit on "give & take' or 'live & let live' rules not "Let us only live" rule. Although "might is right" "Survival of fittest" is also said. :) Social/unnatural & natural angles, self & whole considerations are different--may be bit opposite. What you prefer is your choice.
Without all the mumbo-jumbo and gibberish, just answer the question, Yes or No. Do you advocate the termination of medical treatments and social structures designed to "unduly help"?

[Nucular]

Homeo Man:

Why do you insist on returning to this thread without answering anybody's valid questions?

You are doing you and your cause no favours at all.

You have succeeded in destroying my sympathetic views towards Pakistani homeopathy with your arrogance, your insults and your lies.

I knew homeopathy was 'big' in Pakistan. I believed this to be because it is a poor country, with much hardship and poor health, and a healthcare system that simply can't cope with its burden.

I thought the homeopaths there were probably serving the same function as our homeopaths in the 18th and 19th centuries, essentially providing sympathy and care for people who could not afford proper medical treatment, or for whom worse quack treatments than 'no treatment at all' might otherwise have been inflicted. I thought that the Pakistani homeopaths were people who, in a better world, might actually have been medical doctors, who were motivated by compassion and a need to help those around them who were suffering.

I other words, I didn't believe in homeopathy, but I did believe that the Pakistani homeopaths were to be respected for their efforts and genuine intentions.

You and your ridiculous friends of NCH Pakistan have completely destroyed this naïve misconception I had; I suppose I should thank you.

But it's hard to thank someone who I now know is an arrogant, cynical, lying charlatan, sponging off some of the most unfortunate people ever to have lived, purely in the interests of boosting his own profile and bank balance.

And then to brag about it on the internet! To come over here and lie, fudge, prevaricate and basically tell us you're here to try to manipulate us and deceive us! Posting fabricated pictures of a fictional patient to try to convince people that modern medicine is harmful, purely so you can cash in from the inevitable suffering of anyone who might believe you! And so you can chuckle with your bizarre cronies at what hoops you think you've got us to jump through.

I just wanted you to know how counterproductive and damaging to your cause your actions here have been.

I want you to think hard about what you think you're achieving, and, if there's anyone pulling your strings and orchestrating this farce, what you think their motivations might be.

I also want you to know that it's in your power to change my mind about you, simply by starting to engage, and answer the reasonable questions that people have put to you.

But I won't hold my breath.

[Perpetual Notion]

Heheh... did you notice that your "alter ego" on the other forum uses imperfect English in the style of our Pakistani friends?

From "Perpetual Notion" from the other site. Ahem...

quote:In my opinion, homeopaths are playing game. This is not true story...


Ha! Funny! No, I didn't waste my time looking at their site. I agree with my alter ego's assessment. I grew up in Texas and imagining myself saying those words with a bit of an accent makes it even funnier.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Perpetual Notion
Ha! Funny! No, I didn't waste my time looking at their site. I agree with my alter ego's assessment. I grew up in Texas and imagining myself saying those words with a bit of an accent makes it even funnier.
No fair! My alter ego hasn't posted yet! I feel left out.

[Perpetual Notion]

Aww. I'm sorry Donks, but you did get a trademark on the Kumar thread this week, so that should be something. :)

[Mojo]

Incidentally, Homeo Man, next time you drop by would you care to answer my question about what you mean by the word "allopathic?"

[Non-Sense Homeopath]

yes indeed the case is really miserable :(

[Kumar]

Whether allopathy or homeopathy are "absolute"? If not, these are yet "glass houses" not "stone houses". What then to thrw stones on each other? I see crudes+potencies at some later & suitale date to make these 'somewhat absolute'.

Are these two knowledges? If yes, should knowledges not respected? Pointing out only defects are empity portion of half filled glass may not be a right approach which can be a ignorance, foolishness or vested selfish interests UNLESS one is still a KID. Instead spend your valuable time, knowlede & efforts on mixing water in two glass in one glass to fill copletely/absolutely. "Try try again, you will gain alike human not alike crow". Why to try raising water level alike crow by throwing stones in pot, when alike human you are gifted with hands & two half filled pots are there & you can lift one pot by hand being human & can raise the level by pouring water in one pot to fill completely.:)

Just to start: MOM & other single salt based antacids produces somewhat homeopathic type effects with some additional effects. HOW??

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Whether allopathy or homeopathy are "absolute"?
Neither are.
If not, these are yet "glass houses" not "stone houses".
False dilemma.
What then to thrw stones on each other?
Because one works and one doesn't.
I see crudes+potencies at some later & suitale date to make these 'somewhat absolute'.
I don't.
Are these two knowledges?
Yes.
If yes, should knowledges not respected?
No. One is nothing more than a historical curiosity which should have vanished by now.
Pointing out only defects are empity portion of half filled glass may not be a right approach which can be a ignorance, foolishness or vested selfish interests UNLESS one is still a KID.
Grownups can also recognize completely empty glasses for what they are.
Instead spend your valuable time, knowlede & efforts on mixing water in two glass in one glass to fill copletely/absolutely.
One glass is empty.
"Try try again, you will gain alike human not alike crow".
Take your meaningless proverbs elsewhere.
Why to try raising water level alike crow by throwing stones in pot, when alike human you are gifted with hands & two half filled pots are there & you can lift one pot by hand being human & can raise the level by pouring water in one pot to fill completely.:)
One pot is empty. Or it might be filled with crap, I'm still not sure. I don't want to fill my water with crap. (Some) humans are also gifted with a brain. Use it. Just once.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Donks
Neither are.

False dilemma.

Because one works and one doesn't.

I don't.

Yes.

No. One is nothing more than a historical curiosity which should have vanished by now.

Grownups can also recognize completely empty glasses for what they are.

One glass is empty.

TTake your meaningless proverbs elsewhere.

One pot is empty. Or it might be filled with crap, I'm still not sure. I don't want to fill my water with crap. (Some) humans are also gifted with a brain. Use it. Just once.

Are you/science "absolute" on all what you mentioned? If yes, what can be 'guarantee with surety' to it?

This is just where you make big mistake, not just some or science community who are gifted with brain(proof: open the head of all & see) but all are gifted. Isn't true in your science? However it can be your vision defect, you can't see it. Moreover God is said to be "omnipresent" so everyone is a form of God.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Are you/science "absolute" on all what you mentioned? If yes, what can be 'guarantee with surety' to it?
Every time you think about writing "absolute", stop.
This is just where you make big mistake, not just some or science community who are gifted with brain(proof: open the head of all & see) but all are gifted. Isn't true in your science?
Yes, some just decide not to use it for any higher functions.
However it can be your vision defect, you can't see it.
As long as "your science" can't pass a simple DBPC study, it's not my vision that should be your concern.
Moreover God is said to be "omnipresent" so everyone is a form of God.
I couldn't care less what god is said to be, or what conclusions you draw from it.

By the way, lets not go into TTTT/TTT, you didn't answer my questions. Just answer one:

Are you advocating that no medical treatments be used on any illnesses? Yes or no

[Kumar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donks
Every time you think about writing "absolute", stop.

Why, everytime when you will say anything with much certaininty, I shall be forced to use it. Otherwise say "not yet understood/known".

Yes, some just decide not to use it for any higher functions.

Self thinking only.

As long as "your science" can't pass a simple DBPC study, it's not my vision that should be your concern.

Effects are well noticed even in your studies. Search pubmed as I also indicated. Don't say effects were not found in DBPC studies.

I couldn't care less what god is said to be, or what conclusions you draw from it.

If I also not care or GOD don't care you, don't then mind.

By the way, lets not go into TTTT/TTT, you didn't answer my questions. Just answer one:

Yes, avoid it in future to avoid waste of time, energy etc.

Are you advocating that no medical treatments be used on any illnesses? Yes or no [/B]

no.

(I have not considered type of treatment, self treatment, natural angles, micro/basic levels etc. in above reply but considered social angles, nature's balances, current age entitlements, macro/gross levels etc.) :)

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Why, everytime when you will say anything with much certaininty, I shall be forced to use it. Otherwise say "not yet understood/known".
False dilemma.
Self thinking only.
No idea what this means.
Effects are well noticed even in your studies. Search pubmed as I also indicated. Don't say effects were not found in DBPC studies.
Effects were not found in proper DBPC studies. Is it ok? ;)
If I also not care or GOD don't care you, don't then mind.
I see words, I see an attempt at a sentece, but I sure as hell don't see any meaning here.
no.

(I have not considered type of treatment, self treatment, natural angles, micro/basic levels etc. in above reply but considered social angles, nature's balances, current age entitlements, macro/gross levels etc.) :)
There's a lot of considerations after that no. Let's try to clear the air a little.
Do you advocate stopping all treatments designed to heal or alleviate diseases that are be fatal in nature, that go against "nature's balance"? For instance, do you advocate stopping treatment for diabetes? For cancer? For AIDS?

[Kumar]

No, otherwise how we shall progress towards nature's directions/balance.;)

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
No, otherwise how we shall progress towards nature's directions/balance.;)
This answer is contradictory. Either you advocate treatments that go against "nature's balance" or you advocate progressing towards "nature's balance." You can't have both. Pick one.

[Kumar]

Why can't Modern treatments be in accordance with nature's balance?

My question;

Should animals/birds-diseased or in excess, if posing danger to human society or nature's balance, should be killed or treated/maintained?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Why can't Modern treatments be in accordance with nature's balance?

My question;

Should animals/birds, if posing danger to human society or nature's balance, should be killed or treated?
Treated if possible and practical, killed if not.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Kumar
Why can't Modern treatments be in accordance with nature's balance?I wouldn't say that they aren't. But this is something that you have repeatedly claimed. Why are you asking other people to justify your position?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Mojo
I wouldn't say that they aren't. But this is something that you have repeatedly claimed. Why are you asking other people to justify your position?
I think he finally realized that what he has been advocating is inhumane and cruel beyond belief, so he might be backpeddaling a bit. At least till he thinks we've forgotten about it.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Donks
Treated if possible and practical, killed if not.

It it a social angle or natural? How will you consider humans in similar situations?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
How will you consider humans in similar situations?
Treatment. Quarantine if necessary. I wouldn't kill them.

Since you insist on this line of questioning, let's proceed.
What would you do if diseased animals were putting humans at risk? What would you do if diseased humans were putting other humans at risk?

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Donks
I think he finally realized that what he has been advocating is inhumane and cruel beyond belief, so he might be backpeddaling a bit. At least till he thinks we've forgotten about it. He seems to be backpeddling quite a bit at the moment. Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1870919707#post1870919707) he is claiming that he is "not an advocater of homeopathy or a enemy of modern syste" despite all he's said in the past about "mass existing, "least adversities" etc. Does he really think we'll have forgotten everything he's posted in the past? Not that he seems able to remember anything that anyone else has posted, of course.

Maybe someone else has got hold of the keys to the Kumar!

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Donks
Treatment. Quarantine if necessary. I wouldn't kill them.

Since you insist on this line of questioning, let's proceed.
What would you do if diseased animals were putting humans at risk? What would you do if diseased humans were putting other humans at risk?

Questing started by you.What would you think justified, if diseased humans were putting animals/ humans at risk?

Do you treat/handle diseases/imbalances or humans/animals?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Questing started by you.
Does that mean that you refuse to answer?
What would you think justified, if diseased humans were putting animals/ humans at risk?
I just told you. Treatment, quarantine if necessary.
Do you treat/handle diseases/imbalances or humans/animals?
I don't understand the question, please restate without so many slashes and undefined terms.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Mojo
He seems to be backpeddling quite a bit at the moment. Here (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1870919707#post1870919707) he is claiming that he is "not an advocater of homeopathy or a enemy of modern syste" despite all he's said in the past about "mass existing, "least adversities" etc. Does he really think we'll have forgotten everything he's posted in the past? Not that he seems able to remember anything that anyone else has posted, of course.

Maybe someone else has got hold of the keys to the Kumar!

Sorry, but I think you remained big idiots in understanding alike it. I may have conradicted in defence or as a reaction BUT certainly not as attack or action. Hundered times I might have mentioned I hate or dislike contradictions to any mass...knowledge--allopathic, homeopathic or otherwise. Is it not true?

In view of killing of animal justified if these are weak, unproductive, diseased or excess, how real thought behind many knowledges even Aztec was wrong? Is it due to selfish interest? Whether cruelty is ONLY meant for humans not animals/birds etc.?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Sorry, but I think you remained big idiots in understanding alike it. I may have conradicted in defence or as a reaction BUT certainly not as attack or action. Hundered times I might have mentioned I hate or dislike contradictions to any mass...knowledge--allopathic, homeopathic or otherwise. Is it not true?
Is it true that we are idiots? No.
Is it true that you have contradicted yourself? Yes.
Is it true that we dismiss your "mass knowledge", and rightly so? Yes.
Is it true that you don't like contradictions to your beliefs? Yes.

Easy questions, direct answers. Is it ok? ;)

In view of killing of animal justified if these are weak, unproductive, diseased or excess, how real thought behind many knowledges even Aztec was wrong?
In view that it the killing of diseased animals has little to do with the Aztecs or their knowledge, could you rephrase?

You keep adding stuff to your posts, makes it hard to reply.
Is it due to selfish interest?
Is what due to selfish interests? The knowledge of the Aztecs?
Whether cruelty is ONLY meant for humans not animals/birds etc.?
Are humans only cruel to humans? Seems to me that humans are equal opportunity sadists.

[Kumar]

Originally posted by Donks
Is it true that we are idiots? No.
Is it true that you have contradicted yourself? Yes.
Is it true that we dismiss your "mass knowledge", and rightly so? Yes.
Is it true that you don't like contradictions to your beliefs? Yes.

Easy questions, direct answers. Is it ok? ;)


In view that it the killing of diseased animals has little to do with the Aztecs or their knowledge, could you rephrase?

You keep adding stuff to your posts, makes it hard to reply.

Is what due to selfish interests? The knowledge of the Aztecs?

Are humans only cruel to humans? Seems to me that humans are equal opportunity sadists.

Yes can be right in in-house/self questions & awnsers.

Btw, what is your assesment about me as an advocator of homeopathy & enemy of allopathy. Clue: I take both medicines & remedies.:p

What was Aztecs origional theory/consideration?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Yes can be right in in-house/self questions & awnsers.
That didn't answer any of the questions I have asked. How strange.

Btw, what is your assesment about me as an advocator of homeopathy & enemy of allopathy. Clue: I take both medicines & remedies.:p
You are a terrible advocate of homeopathy. You take a system, that is contradictory and without basis in reality to start with, and add a few layers of inconsistencies. You end up promoting a mess. The language and attitude don't help, either.

[Kumar]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Donks
That didn't answer any of the questions I have asked. How strange.

Where are questions? You just mentioned both questions &awnsers in that post?

You are a terrible advocate of homeopathy. You take a system, that is contradictory and without basis in reality to start with, and add a few layers of inconsistencies. You end up promoting a mess. The language and attitude don't help, either.

Therefore. I feel pity on your assesment. What is meant by crudes+potencies, many allopathic informations & questions etc.?

What was Aztecs origional theory/consideration?

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Where are questions? You just mentioned both questions &awnsers in that post?
Questions are phrases that end with a "?".
Therefore. I feel pity on your assesment.
And that matter oh so much to me.
What is meant by crudes+potencies, many allopathic informations & questions etc.?
"Crudes+potencies" is not my term, it's yours. If you want a definition, you have to provide it.
What was Aztecs origional theory/consideration?
Regarding what?

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Kumar
What was Aztecs origional theory/consideration?You were the one who introduced the Aztecs into this discussion, and now you seem to be asking us what you meant.

And you have the nerve to call us idiots.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Kumar
Sorry, but I think you remained big idiots in understanding alike it. I may have conradicted in defence or as a reaction BUT certainly not as attack or action. Hundered times I might have mentioned I hate or dislike contradictions to any mass...knowledge--allopathic, homeopathic or otherwise. Is it not true?Kumar, you have consistently championed homeopathy, relying on your belief in anything "mass existing..." or with "least adversities" etc. You have desperately tried to produce "scientific" explanations, or rather justifications, for homeopathy, despite being repeatedly told that there are no observable effects and that your ideas have no basis at all in fact. You have consistently attacked what you describe as "modern" (or even "modren") systems as being harmful and unnatural. Pretending otherwise is not only a lie, it's a stupid lie, as anyone who feels so inclined can easily look at your previous posts and see the truth.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
Do you also not believe on "FICTITIOUS" accounts?

Your account is not fictitious?

I have a look around at NCH forum and seen a post by a user name "Perptal notion". Who is that person?

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

That appears to be the last from him on this subject. Not a very robust attempt to defend his claim that the photo of a poor disfigured street beggar was a picture of one of his patients.

I certainly hope Homeo Man is a 'real' troll, i.e. a complete play-actor just doing this for fun, because the implications of it being one of those lovely caring homeopaths are even worse.

[Kumar]

Donks, Mojo,

It is over now, from my side. I can't continue more TTTT/TTT. So whenever you can contribute productive discussions do contribute otherwise enjoy yourselves.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumar
Donks, Mojo,

It is over now, from my side. I can't continue more TTTT/TTT. So whenever you can contribute productive discussions do contribute otherwise enjoy yourselves.
Yes, run away.

[Jeff Corey]

Oh no, now you've scared it away. Now I'll never find out what TTT/TTT means.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
Oh no, now you've scared it away. Now I'll never find out what TTT/TTT means.
This and That Type Talk/Troll Type Talk. DTT is Destructive TT. The one I can't figure out is ITT.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by Donks
This and That Type Talk/Troll Type Talk. DTT is Destructive TT. The one I can't figure out is ITT.
It's Tough Titty?

[Mojo]

This (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Telephone_and_Telegraph) is what immediately came to mind.

OK, maybe not...

[Mr. Skinny]

ITT = Intelligent Type Talk/Informed Type Talk

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Mr. Skinny
ITT = Intelligent Type Talk/Informed Type Talk Well, I can see why Kumar would object to that.

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by Donks
Yes, run away.

Please people, the Kumar ain't goin' nowhere. Anyone who puts up with being called an idiot for however long it's been now, is doing it for one reason only, he likes the attention. I've seen him get smacked down on the otherhealth board and he keeps hanging out over there as well. As long as people keep playing with him, he'll be back. My sooper seekrit psychic powers predict it. Is absolute.

[Mojo]

Yes, I'm sure that the fact that the duplicitous little creep has been caught out in two particularly stupid lies in the course of a few hours won't keep him away.

[Homeo Man]

A "Bogus Skeptic Career" posted the following para

"
First, the picture itself is a manipulated image - some image-editing software has been used to enhance it, and extremely badly too.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

"

I know skeptics will never accep anything right. Because they have Bogus academic career. The above comments also posted by a non-sense person.

If any body prove that the pictures are manipulated. I will give 10 thousand US Dollar. ;)

[Zep]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
A "Bogus Skeptic Career" posted the following para

"
First, the picture itself is a manipulated image - some image-editing software has been used to enhance it, and extremely badly too.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

"

I know skeptics will never accep anything right. Because they have Bogus academic career. The above comments also posted by a non-sense person.

If any body prove that the pictures are manipulated. I will give 10 thousand US Dollar. ;) All I can see there is you calling people names and not addressing the questions. That's typical of you, though, isn't it.

Do you mean Non-sense Homeopath posted over there?

Well, let's get this picture situation fixed. I will ask one of the professional image experts here about the picture and see what they have to say. They have been able to spot fake pictures before, and I'm sure this one will be easy enough to determine if it is fake or not. Do you agree, Homeo Man?

[Vikram]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
If any body prove that the pictures are manipulated. I will give 10 thousand US Dollar. ;)
Homeo Man,

I asked this before and I'm asking this again. Please post links to more close-ups of the poor lady taken from different angles in order to help us understand better the extent of damage to her face. Since you've said on another thread that you have other pictures of her, you ought to be able to show them to us.

And it would certainly be better if the lady's dignity would be respected by showing photographs of her in a clinic setting instead of showing her begging on the street.

We await your photos with great expectation.

[wahrheit]

I found three different pictures of the poor beggar posted by Homeo Man:

http://img276.echo.cx/img276/9624/c8ww.jpg
Shot November 10, 2004, at 13:35:32

http://img274.echo.cx/img274/9048/a0im.jpg
Shot 25 seconds after c8ww.jpg

http://img274.echo.cx/img274/899/b9vo.jpg
Shot 5 seconds after a0im.jpg

As strange as the dark hole in her face looks, I can't spot any photoshopping there. The hole looks very dark at first sight because of the comparatively bright colors around it, but the shadows below her left ear are exactly the same dark tone as the hole. If the nose was faked in all three images, it was done beyond the skills of the homeo pack. Also, the JPG compression artifacts look genuine to me.

Homeo Man, you wrote in one of your previous posts that this beggar is one of your patients. Please answer these questions:

What happened to her since November last year?

Why did you photograph her on the street, and not in your clinic?

Of what kind are your medical and human ethics to present your patients in such a derogative way?

Why don't you have any recent pictures of her???

[Hydrogen Cyanide]

Originally posted by wahrheit
...

Of what kind are your medical and human ethics to present your patients in such a derogative way?

...

This might give an explanation:
http://www.dailytimes.com.pk/default.asp?page=story_30-5-2005_pg7_36

They really do not have any ethics.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Kumar
Donks, Mojo,

It is over now, from my side. I can't continue more TTTT/TTT. So whenever you can contribute productive discussions do contribute otherwise enjoy yourselves. The Kumar manages to totally derail yet another homeopath's thread, and leaves it in shambles. Good work, Kumar! With friends like you, homeopaths will never need enemies :D.

Hans

[Zep]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
The Kumar manages to totally derail yet another homeopath's thread, and leaves it in shambles. Good work, Kumar! With friends like you, homeopaths will never need enemies :D.

Hans Since all and sundry can see that he has no bullets left in the gun (not that he had any in the first place), I would rather say that we skeptics hold the field of battle solidly and clearly, the opposition having simply run away.

[Powa]

We won this debate.

[MRC_Hans]

Originally posted by Zep
Since all and sundry can see that he has no bullets left in the gun (not that he had any in the first place), I would rather say that we skeptics hold the field of battle solidly and clearly, the opposition having simply run away. Mmmm, I guess my ambition is higher than that. I would like to some fine day actually have one of them admit to being wrong (no, I'm certainly NOT holding my breath).

Hans

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Mmmm, I guess my ambition is higher than that. I would like to some fine day actually have one of them admit to being wrong (no, I'm certainly NOT holding my breath).

Hans

Ambition shared. What I find progressively more depressing is how uniformly immune to rational debate they are. From the loons in my profession in the UK to the mainly Western posters at Hpathy and Otherhealth and now the Pakistani pile of socks the unifying feature is their evasiveness and cowardice.

[wahrheit]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
Mmmm, I guess my ambition is higher than that. I would like to some fine day actually have one of them admit to being wrong
Hope Dies Last ;)

[Nucular]

Originally posted by Homeo Man
A "Bogus Skeptic Career" posted the following para

"
First, the picture itself is a manipulated image - some image-editing software has been used to enhance it, and extremely badly too.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=39

"

I know skeptics will never accep anything right. Because they have Bogus academic career. The above comments also posted by a non-sense person.

If any body prove that the pictures are manipulated. I will give 10 thousand US Dollar. ;) Ah, another legally binding, wholly worthwhile offer I see.

What type of camera did you use to take the picture, Homeo Man?

And incidentally, the guy you quote, malign and insult in the above post is the same guy you apologised to over here (http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?showtopic=34) not half an hour before posting here for using the exact same insult. I'd ask you if you had any explanation for this hypocrisy, but I'd rather you answered my camera question.

[wahrheit]

Originally posted by Nucular
What type of camera did you use to take the picture, Homeo Man?
Deluxe Classic Cam by Mercury Peripherals, an Indian brand, I think. A simple consumer thingy.
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story//mercurydeluxethumb.jpg

[Nucular]

Originally posted by wahrheit
Deluxe Classic Cam by Mercury Peripherals, an Indian brand, I think. A simple consumer thingy.
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story//mercurydeluxethumb.jpg Yeah, I pulled that info from the file - I just wondered if Homeo Man would be able to tell me ;)

Cheers anyway.

[MRC_Hans]

It does sort of debunk the spy-cam explanation, don't ya think :rolleyes: ?

Hans

[wahrheit]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
It does sort of debunk the spy-cam explanation, don't ya think :rolleyes: ?

Hans
Plus the fact that the woman looks directly into the lens, that is if she has good enough eye sight.

@ Nucular: Sorry for spoiling the fun. Though you didn't expect to get an answer from Homeo Man, did you ;)

P.S.: I think I am more and more getting sick of the recent swarm of homeopathy guys here at the forum. There's five or more threads of them I followed almost entirely. We didn't get one answer that made sense regarding their ludicrous claims. What's the next post going to be one of them makes? Let me guess: <blockquote> This is challenge for you.:)

Do you agree that 1 + 1 = 2 ? :D If the answer is YES you win 1 gazillion rupees! And then proof homeopathy works :p </blockquote>

[Zep]

Originally posted by wahrheit
Deluxe Classic Cam by Mercury Peripherals, an Indian brand, I think. A simple consumer thingy.
http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story//mercurydeluxethumb.jpg If it is an Indian brand, what is it doing in Pakistan? Could it be that the image was taken in India too?

[Nucular]

Originally posted by wahrheit
@ Nucular: Sorry for spoiling the fun. Though you didn't expect to get an answer from Homeo Man, did you ;)Heh, no, not for an instant, but I thought I might be able to taunt him for a while about it - no worries ;)P.S.: I think I am more and more getting sick of the recent swarm of homeopathy guys here at the forum. There's five or more threads of them I followed almost entirely. We didn't get one answer that made sense regarding their ludicrous claims. What's the next post going to be one of them makes? Let me guess: <blockquote> This is challenge for you.:)

Do you agree that 1 + 1 = 2 ? :D If the answer is YES you win 1 gazillion rupees! And then proof homeopathy works :p </blockquote> Yep, sounds fairly accurate to me, probably followed by "here is new case posted with out comment :D

This lady treated by allopathic doctor in america for MEKHBESI DISEASE with antibiotics and made-up(synthetic) drugs, got verry ill, I treat now all better. :D :D :D

Heer is picture of her begging, I take secretly while she not looking

[Ashles]

Homeo Man,

Who were the US and UK doctors/surgeons?

No answer? How strange...

Ah well, another unaswered question to add to the pile...

[Rolfe]

Isn't it interesting that Homeo Man expects us to swallow this tall tale without question, but at the same time he insists that he won't believe any of the sceptics' own statements about their own qualifications? He's already slapped down "John Richard BSc" as not being able to prove that he has that qualification.

Right. Come here and declare that you're going to explain how homoeopathy works. Then insist that you won't explain to anyone who doesn't have sufficient science education. Several people post their scientific credentials. Oh no, you could be lying so I'm not going to explain anything.

But gather round and listen while I tell you this wildly improbable tale involving (apparently totally fictitious) malpractice....

Rolfe.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Rolfe
Isn't it interesting that Homeo Man expects us to swallow this tall tale without question, but at the same time he insists that he won't believe any of the sceptics' own statements about their own qualifications? He's already slapped down "John Richard BSc" as not being able to prove that he has that qualification.

Rolfe.

No, he said, come with real name, true address, true phone number and location so that we could verify that person's qualificaiton.

[DrDave]

But the question remains - why do you need to verify his qualification? Does it make his arguments or questions more or less valid? I don't think so.

As I do not know him, I cannot say for sure, but for me the quality of his posts, arguments, and questions lead me to accept (for now at least) that he probably has the qualification he claims.

Compare this with the behaviour of certain people who claim to have multiple PhDs - and who would you think people are more likely to believe?

While I'm here, perhaps you could help me with something that is bugging me, why all the claims of multiple PhDs? From what I know of academia, a PhD is not really that much to shout about. I see it more as a stepping stone into the world of academia. Once you have the PhD, you are judged much more on your work, what you publish, and what position you hold (e.g. researcher, lecturer, professor). I can not imagine my old chemistry professor taking time out from his research to suddenly go back to do another PhD!

Dave

edited to remove duplicate words

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
No, he said, come with real name, true address, true phone number and location so that we could verify that person's qualificaiton. No, what he actually said in one of his first posts wasOriginally posted by Dr. MAS
I am coming here to share thoughts with you and not to check anyone qualification or credibility or status. Sir, that's true I am a poor homeopath who uses TANGA (Horse Carriage) for traveling from village to City but God (Allah) blessed me the most higher qualification one can dream about. I have four bachelors and three master degrees with one Ph. D and still student. In this way, I have done graduations in all relevant subjects of medical sciences, hence education or understanding is not problem. I am already on my footing but will take help from you when I need it. :) :jedi: He promised to explain to us how homoeopathy works, by his understanding of it. He specifically said he wasn't interested in checking anyone's qualifications or status.

Until we asked him to proceed. Then, oh dear, he had to know that people here had sufficient scientific education to understand him. When it was pointed out that several people here also had PhDs in the biological and medical sciences and were well equipped to follow his arguments, he nevertheless still refused to proceed.

If it is impossible to explain homoeopathy to anyone unless they have given you their phone number first (and in any case, how could you prove that any of what you were told was true, whatever information was given?), then why come to an anonymous internet forum offering to give such an explanation in the first place? Originally posted by DrDave
While I'm here, perhaps you could help me with something that is bugging me, why all the claims of multiple PhDs? From what I know of academia, a PhD is not really that much to shout about. I see it more as a stepping stone into the world of academia. Once you have the PhD, you are judged much more on your work, what you publish, and what position you hold (e.g. researcher, lecturer, professor). I can not imagine my old chemistry professor taking time out from his research to suddenly go back to do another PhD!My thoughts exactly. (By the way, note that Mas's first claim was of a single PhD, only later did the claim shift to multiple PhDs.) However, when this was explicitly discussed (in a thread I can't now locate), one or two of the Merikan members seemed to be saying that a PhD there is something you take classes and course work for, and some people might rack up enough credits for more than one. Indeed, they might even get two for a single thesis, if it straddled two subjects.

Certainly, here, a PhD is a training in research, and once you have got "your" PhD then the only way I can see anyone going back for more is many years later, perhaps after retirement, when taking up an entirely new subject as a hobby. And them only in cases of extreme masochism.

Rolfe.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Rolfe
No, what he actually said in one of his first posts wasHe promised to explain to us how homoeopathy works, by his understanding of it. He specifically said he wasn't interested in checking anyone's qualifications or status.
Rolfe.

Rolfe.

I was talking about Homeo man and not Dr. MAS. will you provide the same kind of reference of Homeo Man (HM).

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
No, he said, come with real name, true address, true phone number and location so that we could verify that person's qualificaiton.

He can't even keep his story straight.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?act=Post&CODE=06&f=1&t=39&p=491

Originally posted by Dr. Qureshi

To tackle the situation, you have only one choice, don’t discuss with the operator of the account, don’t neglect anything because you can’t think how it can be done, just discuss to the point according the contents which was sent. I mean to say, object on the posts and not on the operator because you don’t know who is the actual operator. If you will discuss according to the point which has been posted by someone you will be never deceive.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
I was talking about Homeo man and not Dr. MAS. will you provide the same kind of reference of Homeo Man (HM). When you prove that Homeo Man and Dr. MAS are not the same poster!

Rolfe.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Rolfe
When you prove that Homeo Man and Dr. MAS are not the same poster!

Rolfe.

I'm going away for 10days, so I'll leave you all to play with our collection of underbridgers.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Rolfe
My thoughts exactly. (By the way, note that Mas's first claim was of a single PhD, only later did the claim shift to multiple PhDs.)

He promised to explain to us how homoeopathy works, by his understanding of it. He specifically said he wasn't interested in checking anyone's qualifications or status.

Rolfe.

It was (skeptics) who first started discussion on his qualification. He never posted about his qualification unless you demanded. He has one or two Ph.D, I can't comment but I know he does not own those degrees. He just write in the sense that other own such type of degrees at higher level to impress others which are not acceptable in Pakistan just like MD. He has done MD but does not own MD because that MD is not acceptable by Higher Education Commission (HEC) which is the ultimate authority to recognize degrees in Pakistan. He is involved in two BHMS courses. In one BHMS he is student which is acceptable by HEC but the other is not acceptable by HEC but acceptable world wide. In this sense if he says, I have done BHMS then it is correct and if he says, he has not done BHMS then he is also correct. He has done DHMCS from Srilanka but that is not own by HEC. But this course is very widely acceptable in India, Bangladesh, Malaysia, UK, Germany and USA.

http://www.communitypk.com/may/warsan.jpg
Dr. Kausar Naheed Answar (in this picture in center) done MD (4 years) from USA but that MD is not acceptable in Pakistan by HEC. Can he claim of having MD degree? Although in UK, different persons are practicing.

If he has promised then he will fulfil his promise. You may join his classes.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
He can't even keep his story straight.

http://www.nch.ipbfree.com/index.php?act=Post&CODE=06&f=1&t=39&p=491

Are you sure, I am the same person who is dicussing at nch forum?:D How can you prove it?

You posted my para from NCH forum. Can I post few paras from NCH forum to here with the same name like peratual notion etc. The same member said something else at NCH forum.

[Perpetual Notion]

As I've already stated here, I never created an account over there and I've never posted over there. But feel free to post whatever "I" said if you it makes you feel any better, troll liar.

[Perpetual Notion]

Nevermind, I did it myself.

In my opinion, homeopaths are playing game. This is not true story

Funny how I can't seem to speak English very well on your board? In fact, I sound downright Pakistani.

[Mojo]

Here's someone talking about MAS:

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
He has one or two Ph.D, I can't comment but I know he does not own those degrees. He just write in the sense that other own such type of degrees at higher level to impress others which are not acceptable in Pakistan just like MD. He has done MD but does not own MD because that MD is not acceptable by Higher Education Commission (HEC) which is the ultimate authority to recognize degrees in Pakistan. So you are saying that when MAS claims to have a PhD, he is just lying to impress us? in other words, he is a fraud?

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
Are you sure, I am the same person who is dicussing at nch forum?:D How can you prove it?


Oh, I don't know. Let me think. Ah, yes. I COULD READ YOUR NEXT SENTENCE.

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
You posted my para from NCH forum.

Now, I think for the purposes of this discussion I shall count that as sufficient proof.

[Badly Shaved Monkey]

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
I'm going away for 10days, so I'll leave you all to play with our collection of underbridgers.

Now, I really am signing off!

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Badly Shaved Monkey
Oh, I don't know. Let me think. Ah, yes. I COULD READ YOUR NEXT SENTENCE.

Now, I think for the purposes of this discussion I shall count that as sufficient proof.

do you believe on me?

That was done to make you fool. :D

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Mojo
Here's someone talking about MAS:

So you are saying that when MAS claims to have a PhD, he is just lying to impress us? in other words, he is a fraud?

With friends like you, who needs enemies?

Yes, Dr. MAS is not "homeopath" because his homeopathic certifications are not acceptable by HEC. HEC only deals with post master degrees. ;) All his certifications are acceptable in UK, Germany, India, Srilanka, France and USA etc but not acceptable in Pakistan. :p

[Mouthfire]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
do you believe on me?

That was done to make you fool. :D

Has anyone noticed that every time we catch these idiots either lying or saying something totally embarassing, they say something like "I was playing game on you"?

Could someone please explain to this Qureshi fellow how foolish and stupid this makes him look?

:rolleyes:

[Mouthfire]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
Yes, Dr. MAS is not "homeopath" because his homeopathic certifications are not acceptable by HEC. HEC only deals with post master degrees. ;) All his certifications are acceptable in UK, Germany, India, Srilanka, France and USA etc but not acceptable in Pakistan. :p

Pathetic...

Not only are his "PhD"s fake and totally made up, but the Pakistani government won't acknowledge his "homeopathic degree" either???

My faith in the Pakistani people is restored :D They aren't all as gullible as Qureshi and his friends afterall....

Oh... and just to let you know, generally the USA doesn't really think "homeopathic degrees" are worth anything either...

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
Yes, Dr. MAS is not "homeopath" because his homeopathic certifications are not acceptable by HEC. HEC only deals with post master degrees. ;) All his certifications are acceptable in UK, Germany, India, Srilanka, France and USA etc but not acceptable in Pakistan. :p Since you have chosen to ignore the question about his PhDs, I'll take this post as confirming your apparent assertion that MAS is being fraudulent when he claims to have them.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Mojo
Since you have chosen to ignore the question about his PhDs, I'll take this post as confirming your apparent assertion that MAS is being fraudulent when he claims to have them.

Mojo is so conscious about my authority and MAS qualification. He is putting his words in my mouth. I confirm that MAS degrees are not acceptable in Pakistan but acceptable in all other counteries. Yes, to me he is not homeopath because I am pakistani but mas is homeopath for rest of the world becuase his degrees are acceptable in each country except in Pakistan. If he take my words as "competative authority of confirmation" then I had said many things before this confirmation then why he is reluctant to accept those confirmations.

[Qureshi1_78]

People invite this Scholar in alternative therapies to deliver lectures. In this picture, Dr. MAS is delivering lecture on "alternative therapies" in which he has done Ph.D.

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/7838/drmaslecture7xa.jpg

We have provided lot of proof with pictures but your professor Ernst never came with evidenses. Who were the persons on which the trial was coducted as said by Homeo Man.

Correspondence to: Professor E Ernst E-mail: Edzard.Ernst@pms.ac.uk


QUOTE
Homeopathic arnica is widely believed to control bruising, reduce swelling and promote recovery after local trauma; many patients therefore take it perioperatively. To determine whether this treatment has any effect, we conducted a double-blind, placebo-controlled, randomized trial with three parallel arms. 64 adults undergoing elective surgery for carpal tunnel syndrome were randomized to take three tablets daily of homeopathic arnica 30C or 6C or placebo for seven days before surgery and fourteen days after surgery. Primary outcome measures were pain (short form McGill Pain Questionnaire) and bruising (colour separation analysis) at four days after surgery. Secondary outcome measures were swelling (wrist circumference) and use of analgesic medication (patient diary).

62 patients could be included in the intention-to-treat analysis. There were no group differences on the primary outcome measures of pain (P=0.79) and bruising (P=0.45) at day four. Swelling and use of analgesic medication also did not differ between arnica and placebo groups. Adverse events were reported by 2 patients in the arnica 6C group, 3 in the placebo group and 4 in the arnica 30C group.

The results of this trial do not suggest that homeopathic arnica has an advantage over placebo in reducing postoperative pain, bruising and swelling in patients undergoing elective hand surgery.



Ref:
http://www.jrsm.org/cgi/content/abstract/96/2/60

[Qureshi1_78]

This is another seminar in which this Ph.D scholar presented his paper on alternative medicine. Ph.D Scholar Mohsin is presenting shield of excellence to Dr. MAS (on left)

http://img19.echo.cx/img19/7942/drmasshield4ee.jpg

(picture was taken from WHCC cd)

Now come with your professor, what is his contribution in the field of alternative therapies. What he has done? Where trial was conducted? How did he find the same kind of person having same disease? What are the addressess of those person who were under gone trial?

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
People invite this Scholar in alternative therapies to deliver lectures. In this picture, Dr. MAS is delivering lecture on "alternative therapies" in which he has done Ph.D.

http://img224.echo.cx/img224/7838/drmaslecture7xa.jpg

We have provided lot of proof with pictures but your professor Ernst never came with evidenses. Who were the persons on which the trial was coducted as said by Homeo Man. Have you ever seen a serious scientific journal? They tend not to be illustrated with the authors' holiday snaps.

As for "who were the persons on which the trial was conducted," proper doctors are concerned with something called patient confidentiality. It was immediately obvious from the opening post in this thread that Homeo Man is not remotely bothered by issues of confidentiality, and neither, apparently, are you.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
Now come with your professor, what is his contribution in the field of alternative therapies. What he has done? Where trial was conducted? How did he find the same kind of person having same disease? What are the addressess of those person who were under gone trial? If you read the actual paper, rather than just the abstract, you will find that, like other properly published peer reviewed studies, it describes the methodology used, so that others can repeat the findings. This is crucially important in that it's how science works. Nullius in verba, and all that...

[Nucular]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
Now come with your professor, what is his contribution in the field of alternative therapies. What he has done?My dad's bigger than your dad.Where trial was conducted? How did he find the same kind of person having same disease? What are the addressess of those person who were under gone trial? wtf? Addresses of people who take part in a trial??

Qureshi, this is all very well, pictures are lovely, etc., but I have to tell you that this is not the kind of thing that's going to convince people here of anything. At all.

The basic thing here is, that if homeopathy works, we must be able to see it working. In your clinic, you presumably believe you see that every day, but, just as with any other treatment, that's not quite good enough evidence - because there's a lack of objectivity, and because without controls improvement could be due to lots of different things.

So, that's what controlled trials are for. They're just about watching the effect of something, in this case a homeopathic treatment, and making sure that other things aren't confusing the issue.

So that's pretty much all people are asking for. Do you know of any controlled trials in homeopathy that are sufficiently well-done that we could consider them? Or did you want to do one yourself to win the million dollars offered on this site? Or maybe you could talk us through how you think homeopathy works?

[Rolfe]

It's easy to see that Qureshi can't even use a simple Internet search engine. Or he would have found out by now that Edzard Ernst is Professor of Complementary Medicine at Exeter University, and that his research these days is done through the Peninsula Medical School. He is German by birth, and grew up in a family where homoeopathy was routinely used. After qualifying as a doctor he did a residency in a homoeopathic hospital and qualified as a homoeopath. He decided to make his career in the scientific study of the claims of alternative medicine, which is how he came to be in Exeter.

There are biographies of him accessible on the Internet (including a good one in the BMJ if they haven't put it on subscription-only now), and I have heard him speak on the radio on several occasions. He's by no means against alternative medicine, but what he wants to do is sort the wheat from the chaff, require the same proof of efficacy and safety as regular medicine, and basically give people information about what actually works and what doesn't. So far, he's never managed to show any effect of homoeopathy, including individualised treatment carried out by trained homoeopaths.

Here is the BMJ article I mentioned (http://careerfocus.bmjjournals.com/cgi/content/full/327/7425/s166). Googling for his name gives about 12,000 hits, many of which are highly informative.

Rolfe.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Mojo
As for "who were the persons on which the trial was conducted," proper doctors are concerned with something called patient confidentiality.

When you don't find the answers then you take issue of confidentiality?

When the trial was conducted, whether your trial persons know that they are under trial?

If yes, then they have no problem of confidentiality?

When you conduct such trial then you must provide the provers data as Homeopaths have mentioned in Allen key notes proving data otherwise the data is fraud.

[Donks]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78
When the trial was conducted, whether your trial persons know that they are under trial?

If yes, then they have no problem of confidentiality?
Non sequitur. Being willing to participate in a medical trial does not mean being willing to have your ID and medical histiry revealed to all.

[Qureshi1_78]

Originally posted by Donks
Non sequitur. Being willing to participate in a medical trial does not mean being willing to have your ID and medical histiry revealed to all.

If you apply a formula on homeo man then why the same principle is not applicable on you? why are you demanding from homeo man to disclose everything of that poor woman who came to him for getting treatment when all other allopaths put her on beggers streat. Why are you demanding their names?

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by Qureshi1_78

Now come with your professor, what is his contribution in the field of alternative therapies. What he has done? Where trial was conducted? How did he find the same kind of person having same disease? What are the addressess of those person who were under gone trial?

Here's my professor. He has much knowledge of drugs and this is a picture of him meeting with the President of the United States who gave him a commendation for this. You can see a gold medal which he carries on his belt. You can visit his website (http://elvis.com/) and purchase many CD's and DVD's and learn more of his great knowledge.

http://facstaff.uww.edu/mohanp/elvis-nixon.jpg

[Donks]

Originally posted by Kumarclone#3
If you apply a formula on homeo man then why the same principle is not applicable on you? why are you demanding from homeo man to disclose everything of that poor woman who came to him for getting treatment when all other allopaths put her on beggers streat. Why are you demanding their names?
Where did I demand her name?

[Kumar]

To the topic subject;

Bad Effects of Allopathic Medicines?

Will it not be better/productive to discuss,