Iran/Contra or Iraq/Korea?

[Mephisto]

I just read this article regarding the loss of some apparently usefuls items in Iraq. The fact that they are missing was discovered by UN satellite photos (they have been keeping track of these items via satellite since the first Gulf War).

"Perricos said analysts found, for example, that 53 of the 98 vessels that could be used for a wide range of chemical reactions had disappeared. "Due to its characteristics, this equipment can be used for the production of both commercial chemicals and chemical warfare agents," he said.

The report said 3,380 valves, 107 pumps, and more than 7.8 miles of pipes were known to have been located at the 39 chemical sites."

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2005/060305Z.shtml
___________

Now, can the U.S. account for the movement of these items, or will this be chalked up to incompetance (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6323933/), lack of hindsight, or is someone in the Asian theater getting some new plumbing?

Mephisto

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Mephisto
or is someone in the Asian theater getting some new plumbing?Other possibilities:In the report to the UN Security Council, acting chief weapons inspector Demetrius Perricos said he's reached no conclusions about who removed the items or where they went. He said it could have been moved elsewhere in Iraq, sold as scrap, melted down or purchased.
In any case, why would the U.S. go hat in hand to the UN and report, "Excuse us, but we just wanted y'all to know that we've been removing some plumbing from Iraq and melting it down. Just thought you'd be interested..."

Now this is interesting:
Perricos said analysts at the UN Monitoring, Verification and Inspection Commission which he heads have concluded that biological sites were less damaged than chemical and missile sites.
Perricos said analysts found, for example, that 53 of the 98 vessels that could be used for a wide range of chemical reactions had disappeared. "Due to its characteristics, this equipment can be used for the production of both commercial chemicals and chemical warfare agents," he said.
The report said 37 of 405 fermenters ranging in size from 2 gallons to 1,250 gallons had been removed. Those could be used to produce pharmaceuticals and vaccines as well as biological warfare agents such as anthrax.
I don't think we have anything to worry about. Repeat after me: Saddam did not have any WMD's...

[Mephisto]

I never said anything about WMDs. I said that some apparently useful items were missing. Just because a hammer is considered a tool doesn't mean you can't beat someone to death with it.

Regarding the UN's assertion. I would think it their duty to bring it to the world's attention that these items have been moved. The U.S. hasn't allowed the UN weapons inspectors into Iraq since the invasion, and we should wonder why.

If you look at it in more local terms. The UN is the school principal. Iraq is the spoiled little girl with a bad temper that is being handcuffed by the U.S. The little girl has an equally disruptive classmate hiding somewhere, unaccounted for, in the room. The principal suddenly notices that the officer's ankle holster is empty (and his backup weapon is apparently missing).

Should the principal:

A. mention the missing weapon to everyone in the room?

B. stay quiet in hopes that the policeman knows the weapon is missing?

C. ban gay marriage and stem cell research?

Are you saying we should ignore it and depend on the armed authority if the missing item were a utility knife?

[DavidJames]

Originally posted by BPSCG
...can be used for the production of both commercial chemicals and chemical warfare agents," he said...

Those could be used to produce pharmaceuticals and vaccines as well as biological warfare agents such as anthrax. ... I've read unconfirmed reports that there are people in Iraq, which can be used to create both chemical and biological weapons.

The 48 hour rule, of course, is in affect.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by DavidJames
I've read unconfirmed reports that there are people in Iraq, which can be used to create both chemical and biological weapons.

The 48 hour rule, of course, is in affect.

Put them on a plane with an airbourne virus and a bean burrito . . .

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Mephisto
I never said anything about WMDs. Then I stand corrected. But if the concern isn't about WMD's then what's the big deal? Stuff gets lost and unaccounted for in war all the time. I'll bet there are missing sheep, too. Should the UN be concerned about that? Should the U.S. be forced to account for what's happened to them?
I said that some apparently useful items were missing. Just because a hammer is considered a tool doesn't mean you can't beat someone to death with it.Are you saying that we should assume the missing stuff is weapons, but not WMDs?
Regarding the UN's assertion. I would think it their duty to bring it to the world's attention that these items have been moved. The U.S. hasn't allowed the UN weapons inspectors into Iraq since the invasion, and we should wonder why.Well, you may recall, the UN pulled all its people out of Iraq after the first terrorist attack against UN personnel, and Annan has repeatedly stated they will not return as long as there is any danger to them. So how would the UN weapons inspectors do their job, if their boss won't let them go there?
If you look at it in more local terms. The UN is the school principal. Iraq is the spoiled little girl with a bad temper that is being handcuffed by the U.S. The little girl has an equally disruptive classmate hiding somewhere, unaccounted for, in the room. The principal suddenly notices that the officer's ankle holster is empty (and his backup weapon is apparently missing). What does the backup weapon represent? If you say WMDs, I have to direct you back to your first line in this post.
Should the principal:

A. mention the missing weapon to everyone in the room?

B. stay quiet in hopes that the policeman knows the weapon is missing?

C. ban gay marriage and stem cell research?
The UN has banned gay marriage and stem cell research? Jeeze, who knew? Even Bush hasn't banned it; he's just forbidden the spending of federal money on it.


The correct answer is D) Stay quiet because everyone knows the missing gun isn't a dangerous weapon - there was never any gun in the first place.

[Mephisto]

Originally posted by BPSCG

The UN has banned gay marriage and stem cell research? Jeeze, who knew? Even Bush hasn't banned it; he's just forbidden the spending of federal money on it.
[/derail]

The correct answer is D) Stay quiet because everyone knows the missing gun isn't a dangerous weapon - there was never any gun in the first place.

Don't be silly, you knew I was referring to Bush's main concerns. He supports banning gay marriage, and he did forbid spending Federal money on stem cell research in this laughable quote:

"The use of Federal dollars to destroy life is something I simply do not support." Apparently the irony of the statement escaped him.

I wasn't suggesting the missing items were weapons, but tools. The article CLEARLY states these are pipes, valves, etc. missing from places that COULD have been used to make chemical or biological weapons (which is why they were watching them). Now, are you telling me that there is no need to worry because our military is keeping tabs on all the PARTS needed to make weapons? Clearly this must be specialized equipment since, I'm assuming, a biological lab can't be made from parts at your handy TrueValue hardware store.

You're too busy pointing at the nonexistant WMD to see that the components to make WMD in a country under our "control" with an active insurgency can't be a good thing UNLESS our military is aware that sensitve items have been moved, WHO is in possession of them, and WHERE they are. Instead of questioning me, I would think you'd be more interested in where these items are.