KORAN abuse in Israeli Prison?

[webfusion]

By Reuters

IDF Prison officials, probing Palestinian accusations that guards had ripped pages of the Koran, said on Wednesday preliminary checks found no evidence an Islamic holy book had been damaged.
Accusations appear to be designed to inflame tensions, and provoke severe reactions in the Muslim/Arab world similar to what transpired after the Newsweek debacle (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/586029.html)

The Al-Aqsa Martyrs' Brigades threatened to punish Israel over what the militant group called "an insult to all Muslims"

I have two comments:

1. Since when does the AlAqsa Martyrs require any excuse to "punish Israel"? They are perfectly willing to perform terror attacks against Israel at anytime, merely because that is the 'Brigades' entire function and purpose!

2. Perhaps the Palestinian prisoners are making an issue of this because they fear that Israeli prison officials will decide to actually go ahead and search each and every Koran book (and there are thousands in the Prisons) to see if they are being utilized for HIDING contraband!
http://www.allfreecrafts.com/images/book-safe/book-safe275.jpg

[Ed]

I really don't give a rats ass about their Korans.

[zenith-nadir]

I love the "desecrate the Quran" gimmick. Palestinian militants have enjoyed Israeli jails for decades and decades, suddenly now, in June 2005 - after the big Gitmo Quran fiasco - Israeli guards are now added to the list of "Quran desecrators"...timing is everything they say...;)

This "gimmick" rings especially hollow considering Iraqi mosques were suicide bombed on January 21st, Feb 11th, April 22nd and May 23rd, an Iraqi cleric was murdered on May 19th, a Pakistani Muslim shrine was suicide bombed on May 27th, another Pakistani mosque was suicide bombed on May 30th and an Afghani mosque was suicide bombed on June 1st 2005.

[Manny]

Clearly, non-Muslim countries must deal with this outrage. I call upon the United States and Israel to immediately remove all Korans from prisons to prevent recurrences of this abuse.

[Ed]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
I love the "desecrate the Quran" gimmick. Palestinian militants have enjoyed Israeli jails for decades and decades, suddenly now, in June 2005 - after the big Gitmo Quran fiasco - Israeli guards are now added to the list of "Quran desecrators"...timing is everything they say...;)

This "gimmick" rings especially hollow considering Iraqi mosques were suicide bombed on January 21st, Feb 11th, April 22nd and May 23rd, an Iraqi cleric was murdered on May 19th, a Pakistani Muslim shrine was suicide bombed on May 27th, another Pakistani mosque was suicide bombed on May 30th and an Afghani mosque was suicide bombed on June 1st 2005.

Precisely why I don't give a rat's ass.

[Lurker]

I'm with Ed on this one. I don't give a flying fig if the Koran is desecrated. I'm not sure guards should go out of their way to do so but if it happens, I don't care. We do need to consider ramifications of this abuse though.

And I say all of this as liberal Christian. If I were prisoner and a Bible were desecrated in front of me I would not care at all. It is just a book and I don't worship the object. Hey, if we can wring any meaningful info out of a possible terrorist by threatening their lovely Koran, I am all for it.

Lurker

[webfusion]

Hood's investigation also turned up 15 incidents in which detainees mishandled Korans between Nov. 19, 2002, and Feb. 18, 2005. Many of the cases involved detainees ripping up their own Korans, throwing the Koran or its pages out of their cells, or trying to deface a Koran belonging to another detainee. One detainee used his Koran as a pillow, one used pages from it to cover the air vent in his cell, and another ripped up his Koran and handed it to a guard, stating that he had "given up on being a Muslim."


Is it possible that Palestinians may have also defaced their own Korans?

From my personal experiences:
In the IDF prison at Meggido (a rat-hole of a place I had the dubious distinction of serving in while a reserves-sergeant in the IDF) there are both religious and secular Palestinians. There is a huge conflict amongst them (most especially regarding the issue of attending Muslim prayers, which the secular prisoners are forced to do).
More than once, we (IDF guards) had to act to separate the two factions who sometimes got violent with each other! Based on this internal friction, it makes perfect sense to me that some KORAN books might get abused by the secular Palestinians (intentionally or otherwise) in the normal course of prison life.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Lurker

And I say all of this as liberal Christian. If I were prisoner and a Bible were desecrated in front of me I would not care at all. It is just a book and I don't worship the object. Hey, if we can wring any meaningful info out of a possible terrorist by threatening their lovely Koran, I am all for it.

Lurker

To Christians, the Bible is just a book. What's written is what's important. To Muslims and Jews, by virtue of what's written in there, the items themselves become sacred.

There is a lot of rules and regs about how to treat a Torah, especially the scrolls. (There are rules about printed copies too, but they're not nearly as harsh.) For example--if you let one touch the ground, you have to fast for a month. Torah scrolls that were desecrated (that exact word is used) by the Nazis regularly make the rounds to various Holocaust exhibits.

The whole irony of this situation, to me, is that this is something Judaism and Islam have in common.

[Lurker]

Originally posted by Cleon
To Christians, the Bible is just a book. What's written is what's important. To Muslims and Jews, by virtue of what's written in there, the items themselves become sacred.

There is a lot of rules and regs about how to treat a Torah, especially the scrolls. (There are rules about printed copies too, but they're not nearly as harsh.) For example--if you let one touch the ground, you have to fast for a month. Torah scrolls that were desecrated (that exact word is used) by the Nazis regularly make the rounds to various Holocaust exhibits.

The whole irony of this situation, to me, is that this is something Judaism and Islam have in common.

I kind of figured that to be the case but I just don't care. Just as they bomb their own mosques they show their own religion great disrespect. I am not saying prison guards should be urinating on the Koran for the fun of it but in certain situations I would be all for it. Heck, artists in this country put the cross in urine and it does not bother me.

Lurker

[IllegalArgument]

Originally posted by zenith-nadir
I love the "desecrate the Quran" gimmick. Palestinian militants have enjoyed Israeli jails for decades and decades, suddenly now, in June 2005 - after the big Gitmo Quran fiasco - Israeli guards are now added to the list of "Quran desecrators"...timing is everything they say...;)

This "gimmick" rings especially hollow considering Iraqi mosques were suicide bombed on January 21st, Feb 11th, April 22nd and May 23rd, an Iraqi cleric was murdered on May 19th, a Pakistani Muslim shrine was suicide bombed on May 27th, another Pakistani mosque was suicide bombed on May 30th and an Afghani mosque was suicide bombed on June 1st 2005.

Have to agree with Zenith, the timing of this outrage is very suspect. They were probably overjoyed to see the outrage with the bad desecration story a few weeks ago and been looking for a oportunity to press that button again.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Lurker
I kind of figured that to be the case but I just don't care. Just as they bomb their own mosques they show their own religion great disrespect. I am not saying prison guards should be urinating on the Koran for the fun of it but in certain situations I would be all for it. Heck, artists in this country put the cross in urine and it does not bother me. I agree with a major caveat: If it's not a highly effective interrogation technique then it's foolish to use it because of the potential ramifications, as we've seen. I can't imagine the upside justifies the downside.

[Lurker]

Originally posted by varwoche
I agree with a major caveat: If it's not a highly effective interrogation technique then it's foolish to use it because of the potential ramifications, as we've seen. I can't imagine the upside justifies the downside.

It seems, as usual, we are in total agreement Varwoche. I agree with the caveat.

Lurker

[Tony]

Originally posted by Ed
I really don't give a rats ass about their Korans.

Word.

[Red Siegfried]

Originally posted by Tony
Word.

Ditto. A book is a book. All books are valuable, but nothing is sacred. They should consider themselves damn lucky they're allowed to have them at all.

Well, since this book has become such a distraction, I guess we just need to remove all of them and broadcast recordings of the Koran for anyone to listen to at anytime. There, problem solved.

[webfusion]

http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D090605/korandemo.jpg
Palestinians demonstrate their outrage at the KORAN's 'desecration' alleged in Meggido Prison.

Will this story have 'legs'? I wonder...

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

ETA --- The Palestinian prisoners are now claiming they have photos of the torn-up holy books.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D090605/koran2.jpg

The Islamic Jihad transferred the pictures Wednesday by e-mail to a reporter in the West Bank. They show two Koran books with torn pages. The militants said prisoners took these pictures with cellular telephones and transmitted them to Islamic Jihad leaders. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/586160.html)

Commenting on the media release of the images, Israeli Prisons Authority official Orit Stelser said the pictures and desecration charges were fabricated.

[Ed]

Originally posted by webfusion
http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D090605/korandemo.jpg
Palestinians demonstrate their outrage at the KORAN's 'desecration' alleged in Meggido Prison.

Will this story have 'legs'? I wonder...

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

ETA --- The Palestinian prisoners are now claiming they have photos of the torn-up holy books.
http://www.haaretz.com/hasite/images/iht_daily/D090605/koran2.jpg

The Islamic Jihad transferred the pictures Wednesday by e-mail to a reporter in the West Bank. They show two Koran books with torn pages. The militants said prisoners took these pictures with cellular telephones and transmitted them to Islamic Jihad leaders. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/586160.html)

Commenting on the media release of the images, Israeli Prisons Authority official Orit Stelser said the pictures and desecration charges were fabricated.

Took pictures with cellular phones?

No broadband connection?

Those damn Jews really are mistreating them.

(queery--when are people going to realize that these thugs areplaying on stupid PC sensibilities?)

[webfusion]

(...when are people going to realize that these thugs are playing on stupid PC sensibilities?)

Not in this lifetime, Ed.

http://www.muslimnews.co.uk/news/news.php?article=777
Many of the estimated 100,000 to 150,000 members of Japan's Muslim community are upset because vandals last month (May 2001) tore up 100 pages of a Koran stolen from a makeshift mosque in this small town in north-central
Japan. The torn pages were then scattered like confetti on the road outside Pakistani car dealer Ahmed Gondal's office.
"The Koran is more important to us than our lives," Gondal said.

[webfusion]

OK, now we are getting somewhere:

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/586567.html
Israel Prison Service Commissioner Lieutenant General Ya'akov Ganot on Thursday rejected accusations that earlier this week Megiddo prison guards had torn pages of the Koran during a search, clarifying that none of the IDF jailers were involved.

According to the commissioner a member of the security forces on visit to the jail had caused damage to the Islamic holy book, but it was not done malevolently.

Ganot made this admission when meeting with the deputy head of the Islamic Movement Sheik Camal Hatab outside the Megiddo Prison during a protest organized by the movement.

Meanwhile, the Palestinian Minister of Prisoner Affairs, Sofian Abu Zaydeh, said he was heading to the IDF jail to look into the matter personally.

|||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||

Denial, denial, denial and now finally, a spark of truth from the Israelis. What will happen next is anyone's guess.