To Know God

[Vorticity]

I found the following quote at this website:
http://www.godonthe.net/wbt/wbt_330.htm

From the website (emphasis theirs)

2 Thessalonians 1:8-9 [8] "He will punish those who do not know God and do not obey the gospel of our Lord Jesus. [9] They will be punished with everlasting destruction and shut out from the presence of the Lord and from the majesty of his power"

OBJECTION: How could any being that claims to be a 'loving' God condemn hundreds of millions of people to everlasting punishment for not knowing Him and not obeying His Son's gospel if they never heard of Him or His Son? What about people who died before Jesus was born? What about people in India, Asia, Australia, the Pacific Rim and the Western Hemisphere, where Christianity did not arrive until centuries after Christ's death?

ANSWER: In this excerpt the term "do not know God" is misleading; do not confuse it with "do not know of God." Every man knows of the existence God because God has written such knowledge into the hearts of men. Romans 2:12-16. A person who does not know God chooses to ignore this inborn attraction.

Incredible. So if I'm an atheist, I'm not an atheist really, 'cause I know, deep down, that there's a god.

Of all the patronising $%@*&...

Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?

Perhaps not Christian. I was taught this as a Catholic however. The all-forgiving god thing was contingent on acknowleging your sins though, so god doesn't forgive all ... unless you ask for forgiveness.

[Vorticity]

Hmmmm. Apparently, its not a mainstream Christian position. Check out the explanation found here:
http://www.biblepath.com/salvation10.html

God has made Himself known to mankind from the beginning (Genesis 3:8). To those who died prior to sin being judged on the cross of Calvary (when Jesus sacrificially died as the lamb of God which taketh away the sin of the world), those of faith in the one true and eternal God (Jehovah) were held captive in a place located in the heart of the earth known as Sheol (in the Old Testament) or Hades (in the New Testament). They were awaiting atonement of their sin debt (Luke 16:19-31), (Hebrews 11:13, 39).

Hades at the time consisted of two areas. One area was known as Abraham's Bosom, or Paradise, and the other area, was, and still is, the area of the damned, the unsaved

(Luke 16:19-31).

It was to Abraham's Bosom (Paradise) to which Jesus descended after His crucifixion and prior to His resurrection. He went there to proclaim victory over sin and death on the cross of Calvary (1 Peter 3:18-19), (1 Peter 4:6).

When He ascended to heaven forty days after His resurrection, Jesus took these people of faith in God ( those who were held captive in Abraham's Bosom ) to heaven with Him (Ephesians 4:8). Paradise is now in heaven.

The unsaved are still in Hades "hell" awaiting their resurrection and judgment of their sin (Revelation 20:11-15).

Its amazing to me that people can get themselves into a mental state where they can accept such obviously ad-hoc explanations...

[stamenflicker]

Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?

I personally take it at face value. Not so much in the sense that God desires such activity, but that it's not logically possible to have an up without a down.

Flick

[Peskanov]

Ten years ago, a friend of mine studied theology; he came from a small village and was pretty ignorant and naive ( well, just a bit more than usual :) ).
We used to argue hours about this kind of questions, and he told me something that sounds like a urban legend.
He told me that his teachers (mostly priests) explained an history about experiments with non-educated childs (don't think bad!). Apparently, these childs (which didn't learn to even speak) made some actions which resembled sun worshipping!?!
It sounds pretty false to me, anybody heard something similar?

[Vorticity]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?

I personally take it at face value. Not so much in the sense that God desires such activity, but that it's not logically possible to have an up without a down.
I'm not sure I follow your response.
When I asked "Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?", I was refering to the "ANSWER" portion of the quote in my first post.

Were you responding to my (sarcastic) sentence "So if I'm an atheist, I'm not an atheist really, 'cause I know, deep down, that there's a god." ? If so, you may wish to rethink the logic of your position.

[Vorticity]

Originally posted by Peskanov
Ten years ago, a friend of mine studied theology; he came from a small village and was pretty ignorant and naive ( well, just a bit more than usual :) ).
We used to argue hours about this kind of questions, and he told me something that sounds like a urban legend.
He told me that his teachers (mostly priests) explained an history about experiments with non-educated childs (don't think bad!). Apparently, these childs (which didn't learn to even speak) made some actions which resembled sun worshipping!?!
It sounds pretty false to me, anybody heard something similar?
Sounds fishy. What actions would resemble "sun-worship"? Pointing or gesturing at the sun? That seems natural, and wouldn't necessarily indicate any innate God-belief.

[off-topic]
By the way, Peskanov, I have just discovered the connection between your sigline and avatar! Neat! A question: where would I put the "\n" to reproduce your avatar?
[/off-topic]

[Peskanov]

----
quote:
Sounds fishy. What actions would resemble "sun-worship"? Pointing or gesturing at the sun? That seems natural, and wouldn't necessarily indicate any innate God-belief.
----

Sure, it sounds weak... But this was the argument used by the teachers to show a natural tendency towards god.
I believe it's only a legend, but who knows... A century ago, this kind of experiments could have been possible. And the old catholic church was a very dark institution in spain.

----
quote:
[off-topic]
By the way, Peskanov, I have just discovered the connection between your sigline and avatar! Neat! A question: where would I put the "\n" to reproduce your avatar?
----

I think I used a 80 column display, not sure though. BTW, the concept is not mine, I found the alg. in a c64 magazine back in 1984. You can use a simple rand() instead of (j = (j ^ ((j << 13) | ( j >> (32-13))))); I wrote this pseudorandom for elegance.

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Vorticity
I found the following quote at this website:
http://www.godonthe.net/wbt/wbt_330.htm


Incredible. So if I'm an atheist, I'm not an atheist really, 'cause I know, deep down, that there's a god.

Of all the patronising $%@*&...

Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?

I've had this sort of conversation myself. Apparently (according to this one fellow I worked with) if you never receive knowledge of the Gospels, God will take it easy on you. If, however, you hear ONE WORD of the "message" and reject it, well, it's the hot seat for you!

"So," sez I, "unsuccessful missionaries are in fact initiating the eternal damnation of their flocks?"

The guy got mad at me; can't imagine why.

Mainstream? No, I think it's more of a Fundamentalist thing.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Vorticity
I found the following quote at this website:
http://www.godonthe.net/wbt/wbt_330.htm

Incredible. So if I'm an atheist, I'm not an atheist really, 'cause I know, deep down, that there's a god.

Of all the patronising $%@*&...

Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?

I don't think so, but I might be wrong. Most Christians I have known pretty much believe that it does not matter if you have never heard of God, Jesus or the bible. They believe such ignorance will still land you in Hell. The more liberal type Christians say that since God is fair and just, He would never send anyone to hell who has never been taught about Him.

I believe in God, but I have a hard time believing He will put anyone in Hell that has not murdered, and done other horrible evil things. It's just not fair to put a good, kind person in an awful dark place called Hell beside murderers and child molesters. Although, some Christians think the scriptures describe various levels of Hell...some not so bad as others...that way the murderers will be a lot worse off...and further down in hell.. than someone who just refused to believe.

[c4ts]

Nobody can really know God. Even if they say they do, they really don't, they only think they do. Guess that means everybody goes to hell.

[Ecce_homo]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
Does anyone know if this is a mainstream Christian belief?

I personally take it at face value. Not so much in the sense that God desires such activity, but that it's not logically possible to have an up without a down.

Flick

And where does the logic enter?

[Hazelip]

Originally posted by Ruby


I believe in God, but I have a hard time believing He will put anyone in Hell that has not murdered, and done other horrible evil things. It's just not fair to put a good, kind person in an awful dark place called Hell beside murderers and child molesters. Although, some Christians think the scriptures describe various levels of Hell...some not so bad as others...that way the murderers will be a lot worse off...and further down in hell.. than someone who just refused to believe.



It must be fun to make up your own religion when the one you're taught just doesn't suit you...

Welcome to the process of realizing there is no magic man in the sky.

[Ruby]

Originally posted by Hazelip


It must be fun to make up your own religion when the one you're taught just doesn't suit you...

Welcome to the process of realizing there is no magic man in the sky.

http://home.att.net/~jandk.pan/smile28.gif

[kedo1981]

Greetings Ruby (most of us JREF posters are not brave enough to put our own pics on our avatar {mine on the other hand is my high school graduation photo})
I’d say your belief (only the really bad people got HELL) is mainstream; but it isn’t mainstream Christian.

[Panther Queen]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Greetings Ruby (most of us JREF posters are not brave enough to put our own pics on our avatar {mine on the other hand is my high school graduation photo})
I’d say your belief (only the really bad people got HELL) is mainstream; but it isn’t mainstream Christian.

Hi,

I was eventually planning to put my pic up...is that bad idea? Some crazy people on here that I don't know about yet?

[Kiri]

Originally posted by Panther Queen


Hi,

I was eventually planning to put my pic up...is that bad idea? Some crazy people on here that I don't know about yet?

Hi, I'm Kiri, and I'm a crazy person.

There, that's ONE down...!

[Dancing David]

Wow, is that a mainstream belief, this may be the wrong forum to answer.
It seems to be a belief of the fumblementalits, pentecostals and the gospel based churchs. Something about the personal relationship with Jesus( Dark Cobra's experience excluded) being crucial to salvation.

In primitive Christianity only 44,000 get to go to heaven anyhow, but people like Moses get to go even though they didn't say that they accepted Jesus.

There is also an Urban Legend that the second coming won't happen until every human alive has a chance to hear the gospel.

Of course I think that fundamentalists oppose abortion because they are worried that the Mary of the second coming is going to be a teen mom born to leftist liberals who will force her to terminate her preganancy.
"Honest dad, I was a virgin until that dove raped me!"
"Sorry honey, but we have to do what's right and you can't go to college with a baby"
WINK

Peace
dancing David

[kedo1981]

Panther Queen aaaaaaaa “meeeeeoooooow”
You should send me several hi res photos of your self, in various states of undress, bikini, underwear, that sort of thing and I’ll let you know if you should post your own pic as your Icon; I am the expert on these things you know.



Just kidding

Lets get back to our god talk now

[c4ts]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Greetings Ruby (most of us JREF posters are not brave enough to put our own pics on our avatar {mine on the other hand is my high school graduation photo})
I’d say your belief (only the really bad people got HELL) is mainstream; but it isn’t mainstream Christian.

There was a picture thread on the banter forum a while ago...

[Panther Queen]

Originally posted by Kiri


Hi, I'm Kiri, and I'm a crazy person.

There, that's ONE down...!

Oh dear, and I make two!:rolleyes:

[Panther Queen]

Originally posted by kedo1981
Panther Queen aaaaaaaa “meeeeeoooooow”
You should send me several hi res photos of your self, in various states of undress, bikini, underwear, that sort of thing and I’ll let you know if you should post your own pic as your Icon; I am the expert on these things you know.



Just kidding

Lets get back to our god talk now

:D :D :D :D