Bigfoot - serious, not follies

[erikbeckjord]

Erik is here and it is a new ball game.

I said this in 1995 on Henry Franzoni's IVBC list, and all hell broke loose. I introduced the paranormal/supernatural/tulpa/alien concept, and was immediately attacked most viciously
by all the non-researcher newbies there. (This has continued on most all boards ever since). However
Henry himself was a secret supernaturalist, and I had many
beer-soaked phone talks with him, and after he speciously
attacked me to his list to "preserve his cred" (ho) and stay in with
Dahinden etc, I then OUTED him and posted some of his
para experiences.

He caved in and went para in public, and in a few months turned over the board to others (Matt M -- ugh) to run so as to preserve
not his cred, but his job. ($$$$$$$talks).

Well, here, I note that LAL is busy "quoting Meldrum"
all over as if this makes any difference. Ditto Dr Swindler.
I know both, had Darris over for dinner, and talk often to Jeff.

Nothing either says makes an f&b bf exist. Not proven.

BUT we have tracks that end in snow and mud, for no good reason

and which also start from nowhere and this royally bugs
non-researcher newbies like LAL and his buddies on
bigfootforumsbuffoons-com.

Now they ban me there because I once cussed out someone who
cussed me out first, but also because i offer good, hard, reasoning and events and evidence that shows their F&B
idea is totally "so 1900s".

Now, send your brickbats, bad logic, and so on to me here or
visit http://www.bigfoot.org and get the real truth, as far as we know it.

Also I am at rudy@stealthaccess.net



I also note that most posters lack the basic cojones to say
who they are

unless this is in their profiles, and I doubt most are.

Iam -- Jon-Erik Beckjord, MBA, director, the Bigfoot Investigation Project and yes, I once thought like you do
but I encountered evidence, and I am no fool, that made me
change. 29 years at this. I am a "semi-expert" snce nobody except abductees is an actualy expert, but I did interview two of those. (Will be in my book).

So --- have at it -- I can take your very worst. And then convert you.

Erik

:D

[jmercer]

Odd. It's not a full moon tonight.

[SpaceFluffer]

I've never heard of such a brutal and shocking injustice that I cared so little about

[Oregon_Skeptic]

SpaceFluffer, that made me laugh out loud. Thanks.

[Ipecac]

So were you serious in the other thread when you said this:

yes, cameras may get good photos of a FUZZY BEING..

as shapeshifters, they may shift at 100,000/sec
and so appear fuzzy
to us

If so, the popular reaction seems to be this:

:dl:

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Erik is here and it is a new ball game.

Iam -- Jon-Erik Beckjord, MBA, director, the Bigfoot Investigation Project and yes, I once thought like you do
but I encountered evidence, and I am no fool, that made me
change. 29 years at this. I am a "semi-expert" snce nobody except abductees is an actualy expert, but I did interview two of those. (Will be in my book).

From Bigfoot.org
The Bigfoot Investigation Project - Directed & curated by Jon-Erik Beckjord, a UC Berkeley MBA who was arrested and jailed for his beliefs (like Galileo) on what Bigfoot really is, and after 29 years of research, has some answers.

Let me just say that for starters, I find your website incredibly offensive. Not for the content, but for the terrible, terrible design. It's quite possibly one of the worst sites I've ever seen.

And then there's the content.. A guy comparing himself to Gallileo claiming that Bigfeet are aliens dropped off by UFOs.

I'm afraid you have a bit of a hard sell here, my friend.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ipecac
So were you serious in the other thread when you said this:



If so, the popular reaction seems to be this:

:dl:

Reply:


what the majority (popular) thinks is flat-a** wrong.

I have 29 years in the field that show this.

Now, how about some mature, adult, reasoning?

Is this forum full of 13 year olds? If so, go back to your
X-Box games.

:o

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine
Let me just say that for starters, I find your website incredibly offensive. Not for the content, but for the terrible, terrible design. It's quite possibly one of the worst sites I've ever seen.

And then there's the content.. A guy comparing himself to Gallileo claiming that Bigfeet are aliens dropped off by UFOs.

I'm afraid you have a bit of a hard sell here, my friend.

reply: who cares about the design of a website?

Is this realllllllllllllly important?

What are YOUR priorities?

I'd rather do field work and have a rough website, than
have a great website like BFRO and do fraud in their expeditions.

LOOK FOR CONTENT, NOT STYLE.

Get real, dude///!!!!!!!!

[Cleon]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
reply: who cares about the design of a website?

Is this realllllllllllllly important?


Yes. And I have years of experience in that field.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
reply: who cares about the design of a website?

Is this realllllllllllllly important?

What are YOUR priorities?

I'd rather do field work and have a rough website, than
have a great website like BFRO and do fraud in their expeditions.

LOOK FOR CONTENT, NOT STYLE.

Get real, dude///!!!!!!!!
http://www.beckjord.com/

Ladies and gentleman, it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you:

Erik Beckjord, the King of Woos

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Yellow background . . . many exclamation points . . . must avert eyes . . .


~~ Paul

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Cleon
Yes. And I have years of experience in that field.

Let's get positive.

If you are good at web design, tell me how to keep a
stack or column of titles from moving left and right
after it was saved and moved to the main server?

I use wysiwyg editing and do not use html directly.

BUt I can access the html in an html editor,

so what can I do to make the columns stay in line?

[emal]rudy@stealthaccess.ne[/email]

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine
http://www.beckjord.com/

Ladies and gentleman, it gives me great pleasure to introduce to you:

Erik Beckjord, the King of Woos

Ripley -- Believe it or Not

this has influenced your life.

Admit it.

It has ruined you.

:D

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Yellow background . . . many exclamation points . . . must avert eyes . . .


~~ Paul

Cute avatar.

EB

[SpaceFluffer]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
what the majority (popular) thinks is flat-a** wrong.Is it really? Well, I'm prepared to be shown the error of my ways, so please provide some hard evidence to back up your case.

Note: Incomprehensible gibberish and blurry photos are most definately not hard evidence.

[grega]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord

tell me how to keep a
stack or column of titles from moving left and right
after it was saved and moved to the main server?



Remove that break tags from the code, also all the nbsp tags.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Let's get positive.

If you are good at web design, tell me how to keep a
stack or column of titles from moving left and right
after it was saved and moved to the main server?

It shouldn't matter whether it was moved to the server or not.

Long story short--use a table. http://www.jalfrezi.com

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by SpaceFluffer
Is it really? Well, I'm prepared to be shown the error of my ways, so please provide some hard evidence to back up your case.

Note: Incomprehensible gibberish and blurry photos are most definately not hard evidence.

You understand that Bigfoot is not proven by science to be an f&b animal. It is also not proven by science (nor me) to be
a supernatural being. On the other hand, if it were, I would not
bother being on this board, but would be in Stockholm getting the Nobel Prize. Right?

All I can do is show supernatural ACTIVITY such as tracks that disappear, and for you to believe, you need to be in the woods
with me and you ain't.

BUT on my website there are photos of such tracks
from Brian Smith's video.

Many of you will sluff this off and call me a liar.

(I tell no lies... Eagle Scout and USAF Academy cadet.)

Now if this is not enuff, and stills never are, I will not lose sleep if
you do not accept it. (as if I care...)

My respect is for field researchers who GO OUT and share and witness this stuff...

Brian Smith, Henry Franzoni, Shelly Binkley, Peter Guttilla,
StanGordon and others.

(but not anonymoist posters)

Many of you will live in denial, a place in Egypt.



;)

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Ripley -- Believe it or Not

this has influenced your life.

Admit it.

It has ruined you.

:D
I assure you, I have no idea what you're talking about.

If you're talking about your website, I choose 'Not', thank you very much.

[Red Siegfried]

Whiskey tango foxtrot?!?!?!??

Well, at least he started a new thread so the troll-zotting can remain contained.

When you think about it all footprint trails have to start and end somewhere. I suppose now every trail of footprints someone can't find the beginning or end of is proof that someone is phasing in and out of another dimension.

Somehow I find that your statement, whatever it is that you're trying to state (bigfoot is an alien abductee? he's an alien? he's from another dimension? he's a ghost of some sort? What is it you're trying to say here?) stretches the bounds of credibility, Mr. Beckford. I suggest you refrain from ingesting DMT before posting.

And driveby posts suggesting that people check out your website are a poor way to generate hits. I suggest spamming by email instead.

Have a nice day, good luck with ... all that.

[jmercer]

Mr. Beckjord - why, exactly, are you here? What has caused to you to inflict yourself upon us?

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
You understand that Bigfoot is not proven by science to be an f&b animal. It is also not proven by science (nor me) to be
a supernatural being.
It hasn't been proven to even exist by science.

All I can do is show supernatural ACTIVITY such as tracks that disappear, and for you to believe, you need to be in the woods with me and you ain't.
Show us a DNA sample, or better yet, a specimen. Then we'll believe that Bigfoot exists. From what you're showing us, however, there doesn't seem to be anything going on.

BUT on my website there are photos of such tracks from Brian Smith's video.
Very unimpressive photos that could be just about anything.

Many of you will sluff this off and call me a liar.
(I tell no lies... Eagle Scout and USAF Academy cadet.)


I won't. I suspect you're in the category of delusional.

Now if this is not enuff, and stills never are, I will not lose sleep if you do not accept it. (as if I care...)
Photos never are enough. DNA, specimens, or equally extraordinary evidence, please.

My respect is for field researchers who GO OUT and share and witness this stuff...

Brian Smith, Henry Franzoni, Shelly Binkley, Peter Guttilla,
StanGordon and others.

(but not anonymoist posters)
I also respect field researchers. Too bad I've never heard of a Bigfoot field researcher coming back with anything worthwhile. Like DNA or specimens.

[SpaceFluffer]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
All I can do is show supernatural ACTIVITY such as tracks that disappear, and for you to believe, you need to be in the woods
with me and you ain't.Sir, I would not be in the woods with you were everything else on fire.

Brian Smith, Henry Franzoni, Shelly Binkley, Peter Guttilla,
StanGordon and others.
(but not anonymoist posters)Yeah I hate those anonymoist posters.

Many of you will live in denial, a place in Egypt.Denial of non-existent evidence you mean? And as opposed to you, who seems to live in a sparkly dream world populated by magical elves and pixies?

[Starrman]

From Web-Site

SPIRIT PHOTOS OF NICOLE B. SIMPSON & RON GOLDMAN - they tell us OJ DID IT !

You should write for the 'Weekly World News'. You don't seriously believe this, do you?

[jmercer]

Originally posted by SpaceFluffer
Sir, I would not be in the woods with you were everything else on fire.

Yeah I hate those anonymoist posters.



Dammit, SF, that's the SECOND time you've made me crack up in the same thread!!

:dl:

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by jmercer
Mr. Beckjord - why, exactly, are you here? What has caused to you to inflict yourself upon us?

I am here to save you from the error(s) of your ways.

;)

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by jmercer
Dammit, SF, that's the SECOND time you've made me crack up in the same thread!!

:dl:

Youse do unnerstan a deliberate malaprop,

don't youse?

Or are skeptics too dense for puns?

[CurtC]

Mr. Beckjord -

Here's an HTML trick that you might not know about - the "blink" tag. You can use it anywhere on the page that you want to draw attention to a certain set of words. Put those words between "blink" an"/blink" tags. It's even more effective when it's used a lot on a page.

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
(I tell no lies... Eagle Scout and USAF Academy cadet.)When does schizophrenia usually strike - the early 20s?

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Starrman
From Web-Site



You should write for the 'Weekly World News'. You don't seriously believe this, do you?


Why should you doubt me? (Go see the books of ghost photos at
Gettysburgh civil war field.)

I don;t put lies on websites.

Besides, Nicole got her revenge...

OJ has lost his hair.

:p

WHEN DO I MEET SOME INTELLECTUAL SKEPTIX??? I'VE DEBATED THE MAJOR ONES OFF THE NET.

Most of you guys think name-calling is actual debate.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by CurtC
Mr. Beckjord -

Here's an HTML trick that you might not know about - the "blink" tag. You can use it anywhere on the page that you want to draw attention to a certain set of words. Put those words between "blink" an"/blink" tags. It's even more effective when it's used a lot on a page.

When does schizophrenia usually strike - the early 20s?


Thanks for html blink info.

Now, why is my signature website address not right?

Ought to be http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoottribephotos

but did did something wrong in html in the profile.

Hmmmm??? Please assist. :D

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by jmercer
Dammit, SF, that's the SECOND time you've made me crack up in the same thread!!

:dl:

As I had planned .....

after all, I am in Mensa.

EB:p

[Ladewig]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Youse do unnerstan a deliberate malaprop,


I want to make sure I understand your position. Correct me if I am wrong. You come to skeptic board to present a theory so revolutionary that it would irrevocably change science and the world as we know it and you decide the best way to do that is by deliberately misspelling words for humorous effect?

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by SpaceFluffer
Sir, I would not be in the woods with you were everything else on fire.

Yeah I hate those anonymoist posters.

Denial of non-existent evidence you mean? And as opposed to you, who seems to live in a sparkly dream world populated by magical elves and pixies? [/B]


Fluffer -- describes you well,

but there is another definition, used in the porn industry,

for a lady who , uh, "prepares" the male actor......

if you get my drift....

:p

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ladewig
I want to make sure I understand your position. Correct me if I am wrong. You come to skeptic board to present a theory so revolutionary that it would irrevocably change science and the world as we know it and you decide the best way to do that is by deliberately misspelling words for humorous effect?


You have to disguise the cod liver oil with sugar and cream...

GET IT?

Besides, lots of trivial folks here....

who play for the laffs.

COMPRENDO?;)

but credit for seeing this is a major, revolutionary idea. AND IT IS!

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Why should you doubt me? (Go see the books of ghost photos at Gettysburgh civil war field.)
I'm doubting you because you say fuzzy blobs that could be anything are proof of bigfoot. Give me DNA or a specimen.

I've seen a large number of "ghost" photos. They only feature dust, hairs, .jpeg compression artifacts, or nothing at all. Ask mayday about them. Maybe you can show me some of those photos you're talking about. I need a good laugh.

I don;t put lies on websites.
No one's accused you of lying (at least no one I've seen). I think you're just plain wrong.

WHEN DO I MEET SOME INTELLECTUAL SKEPTIX??? I'VE DEBATED THE MAJOR ONES OFF THE NET.

Most of you guys think name-calling is actual debate.
You're the one with the most ad hominems going on, and no evidence. You only have a handful of photos that you haven't even attempted to show aren't the result of pareidolia.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
I'm doubting you because you say fuzzy blobs that could be anything are proof of bigfoot. Give me DNA or a specimen.

I've seen a large number of "ghost" photos. They only feature dust, hairs, .jpeg compression artifacts, or nothing at all. Ask mayday about them. Maybe you can show me some of those photos you're talking about. I need a good laugh.


No one's accused you of lying (at least no one I've seen). I think you're just plain wrong.


You're the one with the most ad hominems going on, and no evidence. You only have a handful of photos that you haven't even attempted to show aren't the result of pareidolia.

nOW,NOW,NOW, where did I ever say the photos are proof of Bigfoot, ??? Where?
I presume you can read, so did you NOT read my disclaimers???? Tsk! I expect more from skeptix.
The photos are indicators that something alien or weird might exist in some form or another.And I never,never,never said this is proof. TSK,TSK! :D :o

Ad hominems? Count them.....all by others, I just reply and then people cry.

[Bronze Dog]

My apologies, then... So, what are you doing here?

[Mr. Skinny]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord

Now if this is not enuff, and stills never are, I will not lose sleep if
you do not accept it. (as if I care...)
If you already know stills are not enough, and never are, and you also don't care if we accept your evidence, why, exactly, have you come here?

Just curious.

Also, didn't someone admit that he faked that "famous" bigfoot video?

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Mr. Skinny
If you already know stills are not enough, and never are, and you also don't care if we accept your evidence, why, exactly, have you come here?

Just curious.

Also, didn't someone admit that he faked that "famous" bigfoot video?


1) so you believe any statement as long it implies a hoax.

2) you believe anything you read in the papers?

3) bonk!

4) I am here to fish for the 2% intelligent ones to bring to our side. MOST OF YOU DO NOT QUALIFY

BUT it is worth it.

Already have 6 favorable PMs --- complimenting me for having the guts to post here. The lions den, the BELLY OF THE BEAST.:p

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1) so you believe any statement as long it implies a hoax.
Nope. I don't believe the moon landings were hoaxed. It'd be a lot easier to go to the moon than to construct such a huge conspiracy.

2) you believe anything you read in the papers?
Yes. I believe a sizable piece of what's in there. I also disbelieve a sizable piece.

3) bonk!
Ow.

4) I am here to fish for the 2% intelligent ones to bring to our side. MOST OF YOU DO NOT QUALIFY
How do you intend to fish without bait? Skeptics respond to evidence. You've already admitted you don't have proof.

BUT it is worth it.

Already have 6 favorable PMs --- complimenting me for having the guts to post here. The lions den, the BELLY OF THE BEAST.:p
They're probably trolls. Trolls are only interested in supporting their closeminded ideological agenda. Skeptics are only interested in evidence.

[Mr. Skinny]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1) so you believe any statement as long it implies a hoax.
I asked a question. I didn't say I believed any statement whatsoever. What are you talking about?

2) you believe anything you read in the papers?
Believe what? What papers?

3) bonk!
If you say so.

4) I am here to fish for the 2% intelligent ones to bring to our side. MOST OF YOU DO NOT QUALIFY

BUT it is worth it.

Already have 6 favorable PMs --- complimenting me for having the guts to post here. The lions den, the BELLY OF THE BEAST.:p
You haven't been able to engage anyone here without coming across as a raving nutter so far.

If you want intelligent discussion, you have to start by offering topics to discuss in an intelligent way.

Would you like to start over and try again?

[Jeff Corey]

The raving nutters are getting even more insulting than Ineffectual Ian.
Dr. Mas calls us children, as does this nutter.
What's next? My breath is bated.

[Hitch]

Hey Erik, Bigfoot adbucted your links.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
My apologies, then... So, what are you doing here?

I am here to search for the very few, not you, intelligent
people.

Also to deflate this pompous LAL person, who really thinks she is

somebody

Also to inform you misguided skeptix.

And why are YOU here? For laffs....? So it seems....

eb

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Jeff Corey
The raving nutters are getting even more insulting than Ineffectual Ian.
Dr. Mas calls us children, as does this nutter.
What's next? My breath is bated.

Then hold that breath for 15 min.

:D

[erikbeckjord]

I JUST FIGURED IT OUT...you people know nothing about this topic.

Uh-oh.........:(

[The Odd Emperor]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I am here to save you from the error(s) of your ways.

;)

...and how is this working out?

[RayG]

Well bless my hole Erik, or should I say Cedrip, when did they let you out?

You wouldn't be pestering the folks here at the JREF Forum with your wild stories of riding in UFOs, seeing bigfoot in a bag of chips, taking ghost photos, or other such nonsense would you?

RayG

[RayG]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I am teaching basically Bigfoot 601...

Ok Teach, explain to us in full detail:

1. The process of shapeshifting.

2. What do you really think bigfoot is?

Feel free to call upon science to fill in the details.

RayG

ps. Who's Huston?

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I am here to search for the very few, not you, intelligent people.
How can you tell the difference, especially considering you've already admitted you don't have proof? I think you're just looking for closed minds who share your unfounded beliefs.

Also to deflate this pompous LAL person, who really thinks she is somebody
A rivalry between two people without evidence. Aside from the possibility of a few funny ad hominems, this should be quite boring.

Also to inform you misguided skeptix.
Then please do so. With evidence.

And why are YOU here? For laffs....? So it seems....
I'm on this forum for multiple reasons: To try and save people from their delusions by pointing out other possible explanations or the absence of good evidence. To learn about some scientific matters. The only place here I specifically go to for laughs is the humor forum. Laughs from the other portions of the forum are just a common side bonus.

Oh, and a friend wanted me to ask you: Why would bigfeet shapeshift so much? Seems like a big waste of energy.

Personally, I think that question is pointless because you haven't proven they exist.

I JUST FIGURED IT OUT...you people know nothing about this topic.
Of course not: We have yet to see evidence that bigfoot exists. Without that, there's no point in speculating.

[Ladewig]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I JUST FIGURED IT OUT...you people know nothing about this topic.

Uh-oh.........:(

You seem a bit upset. Let's back up and review why many posters here consider you to be a troll, a joke, or someone with an untreated illness.

Exhibit A) You title your thread "serious bigfoot" and then pepper your posts with deliberate spelling errors for humorous effect. Yet you get upset when other people make jokes. If you want a serious discussion, then you should stop making jokes. If you want to make jokes, then don't expect a serious discussion.

Exhibit B) You have a theory about Bigfoot that is so unusual that many other Bigfoot believers cannot accept it. You have been promoting this theory for many years and surely must have realized that the vast majority of people reject your ideas, yet you "JUST FIGURED IT OUT [that posters on this board] know nothing about the topic." Why did you come to a skeptic site and expect people to know about what you are putting forth?

Exhibit C) Your life on Mars (http://www.beckjord.com/lifeonmars/index.html) webpage shows photos from NASA's Mars mission. You see rocks that look like disembodied heads and conclude that these heads are actual intelligent beings. If these images were proof of life on Mars and (as you repeatedly claim) NASA is dedicated to hiding all evidence of life on Mars, why did they release the photos.

I could go on all through the alphabet, but I have other things to do.

If you want a serious discussion, then simply present the best evidence you have. If you read enough other threads in this forum, then you will see that the majority of posters here can understand and evaluate evidence in a professional manner. All that is required is that the evidence be presented in a professional manner.

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Serious question here.

You've mentioned going on many boards over the years, getting banned, being ridiculed. Now you're here and all you're getting is ridicule. Does this tell you something at all? Do you think that the entire world is wrong, and you are the only one who is right? Does that seem strange to you?

You say that LAL doesn't know what he/she is talking about, but here's the difference: LAL came to debate with skeptics. With facts. With proof. It was, for the most part, a civil debate.

If you think you're going to win over skeptics by posting 'Erik is here, it's a whole new ballgame', and declaring you're going to convert us all, you're mistaken.

We need PROOF. We need EVIDENCE. Do you have that? If not, then you have no hope of 'converting' anyone. Ever.

Personally, I am extremely interested in knowning how you came to the conclusion that Bigfoot is a shapeshifting alien. Please educate us.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine
Serious question here.

You've mentioned going on many boards over the years, getting banned, being ridiculed. Now you're here and all you're getting is ridicule. Does this tell you something at all? Do you think that the entire world is wrong, and you are the only one who is right? Does that seem strange to you?


To a crank, it only validates their beliefs.


You say that LAL doesn't know what he/she is talking about, but here's the difference: LAL came to debate with skeptics. With facts. With proof. It was, for the most part, a civil debate.


LAL is trying to argue from a valid, scientific standpoint. I give her oodles of credit for that.


If you think you're going to win over skeptics by posting 'Erik is here, it's a whole new ballgame', and declaring you're going to convert us all, you're mistaken.


Actually, I think he's just having fun with his ego.


We need PROOF. We need EVIDENCE. Do you have that? If not, then you have no hope of 'converting' anyone. Ever.


Wasn't he earlier saying that evidence and proof aren't possible, because of the whole shapeshifting alien thing?


Personally, I am extremely interested in knowning how you came to the conclusion that Bigfoot is a shapeshifting alien. Please educate us.

My guess is the answer to that has to do with three letters; specifically, the slightly rearranged initials of the Mormon church.

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by Cleon
Wasn't he earlier saying that evidence and proof aren't possible, because of the whole shapeshifting alien thing?
If so, we're about immunization against evidence. So, erik, is there any hypothetical evidence that could prove you wrong?

I know some things that would prove us skeptics wrong: DNA and specimens are the two that come to mind right away.

[H3LL]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I JUST FIGURED IT OUT...you people know nothing about this topic.

Not so.
I am resident in China and have similar hard evidence as yourself for our Yeti.

I'm keen to compare notes.

Fire away with your best stuff and we can see if we have a match.

Your call.

[UrsulaV]

Originally posted by Cleon

My guess is the answer to that has to do with three letters; specifically, the slightly rearranged initials of the Mormon church.

Damn, I did plenty of that in college and I never saw a shapeshifting alien Bigfoot. I feel cheated now.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Cleon
To a crank, it only validates their beliefs.
A while back you quoted bugs bunny (cracked me up). I can't find it but it seems fitting.

I get special enjoyment from Bigfoot owing to wild adventures from my youth (not involving bigfoot other than as comic aside) on the Trinity River in CA -- bigfoot central.

erikbeckjord, I would get a huge kick if there were such a thing as bigfoot. I hope you will post some some actual evidence (preferably evidence that passes the giggle test).

[Hitch]

Anjelica Huston?

[Cleon]

Originally posted by varwoche
A while back you quoted bugs bunny (cracked me up). I can't find it but it seems fitting.


I did? What did I say?



erikbeckjord, I would get a huge kick if there were such a thing as bigfoot. I hope you will post some some actual evidence (preferably evidence that passes the giggle test).

Hey, he's gotta work his way up to the giggle test. Right now he's not even passing the laughing-so-hard-the-guy-in-the-next-cubicle-wonders-what-I'm-smoking test.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by Cleon
I did? What did I say? Pls disregard my hallucination -- I'm just trying to get into the bigfoot mindspace.

[erikbeckjord]

HOW YOU GONNA FACE BIGFOOT IF YOU DON'T HAVE THE B*LLS TO POST YOUR FULL NAME?

AND

THE F&B BF IS SOOOOO 1900S....... THE INDIANS ARE RIGHT--- BF IS SPIRITUAL (BUT CAN MANIFEST NOW AND THEN AND LEAVE TRAX.)

AND

THE SKEPTIX ARE RIGHT -- THERE IS NO F&B BF. BUT THERE IS ANOTHER TYPE.

AND

GOT B*LLS? EMAIL ME RUDY@STEALTHACCESS.NET OR CALL 510-633-2526

No fear.

I'm here.

To set you straight,

Without any hate.

:D :p

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Cleon
I did? What did I say?




Hey, he's gotta work his way up to the giggle test. Right now he's not even passing the laughing-so-hard-the-guy-in-the-next-cubicle-wonders-what-I'm-smoking test.

Reply:we have no evidence acceptable to science. OK? But we have a 23 ft 16mm film, FWIW. Also blood and hair and a claim of DNA.

But this is not enuff. OK? And it is impossible to prove a supernatural thing. But we are trying. Now stop your stupid giggling. Get your a** out there and do some research,.

You want an attempt at proof? http://www.biggfoot.org

Now our best proof of superantural is

Hundreds of trax in snow that are unfakable due to stride, (59 in) and depth, and size, that simply start from nothing and end in one last step.

On video yet.
Brian Smith.


I also found this four times in snow, mud, grass over mud and more snow. It does happen.

This means:

BF either goes up in a helicopter (none ever seen nor heard) or it is supernatural.

Now quityour childiish sniggering, and get real, and assist us. Ditto you other kiddies.

:o

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by UrsulaV
Damn, I did plenty of that in college and I never saw a shapeshifting alien Bigfoot. I feel cheated now.

I don't do LSD.

But you need to get l**d.

Been awhile, right? Since the divorce?

:p

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by H3LL
Not so.
I am resident in China and have similar hard evidence as yourself for our Yeti.

I'm keen to compare notes.

Fire away with your best stuff and we can see if we have a match.

Your call.


reply: yes, hairs from the YE REN

Evidence of bf in a manifested state. Which is not full time.:D

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by The Odd Emperor
...and how is this working out?

reply: got ten pms of support, and one critical. (LAL) ;)

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
If so, we're about immunization against evidence. So, erik, is there any hypothetical evidence that could prove you wrong?

I know some things that would prove us skeptics wrong: DNA and specimens are the two that come to mind right away.

reply: I stand with the skeptics - there is NO animal Bigfoot (as such). But, there seems to be (they spoke to me) (yes) a spiritual kind that can manifest.

So far, the evidence of doing impossible things is standing up. And well. Critics are going nutz.

To avoid this evidence, they ban me and others from forums because THEY HAVE NO REPLY. Very Saddam/Hitler like. Free speech? What's that? :p :D :o

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by RayG
Ok Teach, explain to us in full detail:

1. The process of shapeshifting.

2. What do you really think bigfoot is?

Feel free to call upon science to fill in the details.

RayG

ps. Who's Huston?


OK, Houston. We non-Texans have problems with thet.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by RayG
Ok Teach, explain to us in full detail:

1. The process of shapeshifting.

2. What do you really think bigfoot is?

Feel free to call upon science to fill in the details.

RayG

ps. Who's Huston?

Reply: Info re this man who photomorphed my GF into a sex doll. http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html

:(

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ripley Twenty-Nine
Serious question here.

You've mentioned going on many boards over the years, getting banned, being ridiculed. Now you're here and all you're getting is ridicule. Does this tell you something at all? Do you think that the entire world is wrong, and you are the only one who is right? Does that seem strange to you?

You say that LAL doesn't know what he/she is talking about, but here's the difference: LAL came to debate with skeptics. With facts. With proof. It was, for the most part, a civil debate.

If you think you're going to win over skeptics by posting 'Erik is here, it's a whole new ballgame', and declaring you're going to convert us all, you're mistaken.

We need PROOF. We need EVIDENCE. Do you have that? If not, then you have no hope of 'converting' anyone. Ever.

Personally, I am extremely interested in knowning how you came to the conclusion that Bigfoot is a shapeshifting alien. Please educate us.


Nevere said we have hard evidence of a soft evidence thing. LAL is back in the 1900s. There is no animal BF. But there is a spiritual one that gets solid from time to time.

Convert? Never for most of you, who think in B&W, with no shades of gray. Buit maybe the rare 2% bright ones who think OUTSIDE THE BOX. Most of you are locked INTO THE BOX.

BF is seen to shapeshift in the frames of the Patterson Film. Face changes each twenty frames, or less. Has critters embedded in fur, thas also change.

url is at http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot and click on
PGfilmframesinseries which is at beckjord.com/bigfoot/pgfilmframesinseries.html because on this board, long website names seem to not get listed right, and show errors. Only for the sharp of eye and 1200 x 2400 monitor.

Also trax morph and also disappear. And they spoke to me (yes, gales of laughter... but they did)

[erikbeckjord]

She may have a good heart and try hard, but she is back in the 1900s re what BF really is. In fact, back in the 1950s.

She is a good case for the brainwashed type of person the BFRO puts out...She needs to read THE LOCALS by a former bfro member, Thom Powell. Also THE BIGFOOT FILES, BY PETER GUTTILLA, WHO IS SMARTER THAN ALL OF US. ;)

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Mr. Skinny
You haven't been able to engage anyone here without coming across as a raving nutter so far.

If you want intelligent discussion, you have to start by offering topics to discuss in an intelligent way.

Would you like to start over and try again?


All I see is childish comments by guys such as you. In this topic. So, I reply in terms you can understand. Now go tie your shoes, the school bus is coming. :p

[SezMe]

From erik's web site:

Philosophy -"the Meaning of Life" - the ultimate philosophy. How we came to be;where we are going. Here it is.

Hey, erik, you ever met lifegazer? Open a thread with him and I'll pay serious money for a front row seat.

[Jeff Corey]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
.... Also THE BIGFOOT FILES, BY PETER GUTTILLA, WHO IS SMARTER THAN ALL OF US...
Smarter than you, maybe.
Just like the average hunk of iron ore.

[Yeah_Right]

I'm not acting like a 13 year old but i just cannot resist this dog as a response to the supernatural bigfoot.

[Bronze Dog]

Here's a question I didn't get a response to, yet: Erik, is there any hypothetical evidence that could prove your hypothesis wrong?

[Hitch]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
Here's a question I didn't get a response to, yet: Erik, is there any hypothetical evidence that could prove your hypothesis wrong?

While you're at it, prove that Invisible Pink Unicorns do not exist.


Please don't feed the trolls.

[WildCat]

This is a true story:

When I was 12 or 13 years old, I usually went to sleep w/ the radio on. One night, I was having a bizarre, supernatural bigfoot dream. In the dream, I was skiing down a mountain, chasing after a bigfoot that could levitate and turn invisible. Naturally, I lost him. I got on the ski lift to try again, but half way up the bigfoot appeared and caused the cable on the ski lift to snap, As I was falling to certain death, he started screaming at me "How does it feel?" That's when I woke up, and the radio station was playing Dylan's Like A Rolling Stone.

I was going to post that on a weird dream thread a while back, but never did. But it seems so much more appropriate here! :D

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Yeah_Right
I'm not acting like a 13 year old but i just cannot resist this dog as a response to the supernatural bigfoot.


I love my dog, but he is not too bright..

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by WildCat
This is a true story:

When I was 12 or 13 years old, I usually went to sleep w/ the radio on. One night, I was having a bizarre, supernatural bigfoot dream. In the dream, I was skiing down a mountain, chasing after a bigfoot that could levitate and turn invisible. Naturally, I lost him. I got on the ski lift to try again, but half way up the bigfoot appeared and caused the cable on the ski lift to snap, As I was falling to certain death, he started screaming at me "How does it feel?" That's when I woke up, and the radio station was playing Dylan's Like A Rolling Stone.

I was going to post that on a weird dream thread a while back, but never did. But it seems so much more appropriate here! :D

Reply:in waking reality, Bigfoot has saved some campers and I talked to one of them, a woman who was 5 at that time.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Hitch
While you're at it, prove that Invisible Pink Unicorns do not exist.


Please don't feed the trolls.

will juvenile people please stop posting on this topic? Go watch cartoons on tv.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by jmercer
Mr. Beckjord - why, exactly, are you here? What has caused to you to inflict yourself upon us?


1_Because I cannot stand moronic thinking, 2) to rescue the intelligent 2%

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ipecac
So were you serious in the other thread when you said this:



If so, the popular reaction seems to be this:

:dl:

It was once popular to say the world was flat., that man would never fly, that we would never get to the moon. BONK!

BUT I SEE SOME DECENT AND INTELLIGENT PEOPLE ARE HERE, AND ARE COMING FORTH. BRAVOS!

;)

[TjW]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1_Because I cannot stand moronic thinking, 2) to rescue the intelligent 2%

Well, then, I think you ought to sit down.

[varwoche]

I sorta enjoy sincere, goofy incredulity like this, from the web site.. Beckjord
Note in the sequence above, the baby head, or baboon/critter head on upper left side of the adult head. How do you fake THAT????

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Reply:

what the majority (popular) thinks is flat-a** wrong.

I have 29 years in the field that show this.

Now, how about some mature, adult, reasoning?

Is this forum full of 13 year olds? If so, go back to your
X-Box games.

:o

But you never answered my question. Which was this:


So were you serious in the other thread when you said this:

yes, cameras may get good photos of a FUZZY BEING..

as shapeshifters, they may shift at 100,000/sec
and so appear fuzzy
to us

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Ipecac
But you never answered my question. Which was this:

REPLY: 100% SERIOUS.,

DID YOU THINK I AM BULLSH*TTING YOU PEOPLE>>???

FOR WHAT IN GOD'S GREEN EARTH MAKES YOU THINK

I AM NOT SERIOUS?:o

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by TjW
Well, then, I think you ought to sit down.

Content removed for breaching your Membership Agreement.

You have been suspended until the matter is reviewed by the Moderating Team.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
How can you tell the difference, especially considering you've already admitted you don't have proof? I think you're just looking for closed minds who share your unfounded beliefs.


A rivalry between two people without evidence. Aside from the possibility of a few funny ad hominems, this should be quite boring.


Then please do so. With evidence.


I'm on this forum for multiple reasons: To try and save people from their delusions by pointing out other possible explanations or the absence of good evidence. To learn about some scientific matters. The only place here I specifically go to for laughs is the humor forum. Laughs from the other portions of the forum are just a common side bonus.

Oh, and a friend wanted me to ask you: Why would bigfeet shapeshift so much? Seems like a big waste of energy.

Personally, I think that question is pointless because you haven't proven they exist.


Of course not: We have yet to see evidence that bigfoot exists. Without that, there's no point in speculating.

REPLY: TOTALLY MORONIC Q. \

Oh, and a friend wanted me to ask you: Why would bigfeet shapeshift so much? Seems like a big waste of energy.

====ARE ALL OF YOU THIS WAY?

BONK!

[SezMe]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
REPLY: 100% SERIOUS.,

DID YOU THINK I AM BULLSH*TTING YOU PEOPLE>>???

FOR WHAT IN GOD'S GREEN EARTH MAKES YOU THINK

I AM NOT SERIOUS?:o
Hmm, here are a few reasons, just for starters:

- ALL CAPS responses. Yelling does not imply validity.
- Multiple "?" does not imply validity.
- Lack of independently verifiable evidence.
- Argument from Authority ("I have been at this for X years").
- Lack of logical, rational, scientific evidence.
- Wacky web site with numerous unrelated claims that are, well, silly.
- Photos that are blurry, subject to interpretation, etc.
- Personal hubris ("rescue the intelligent 2%")

and on and on and on and on.

That, erik, is an example of what we here call "evidence". Got some?

[Yeah_Right]

Erik doesn't have evidence he's just like the other woos that want us to believe without question. It's either that or he's got nothing better to do than goof around on this message board.

[H3LL]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Evidence of bf in a manifested state. Which is not full time.:D

Hmm!

I'm curious about your estimations of time intervals while out-of-phase/manifested.

We had the Yeti clearly walk through a 10cm brick wall.

Curiously, it walked around temple buildings. One can only speculate that living with this creature for so long they may be familiar with its limitations and how long it can be out-of-phase before re-manifesting without slipping into temporal-transfer. The temple walls are noticably thicker and the monks are curiously tight-lipped when trying to get construction details.

As for evidence. We still have the wall. These so-called sceptics can stick that in their collective pipes and smoke it.

I'm assured that a latent field (possibly quantum) indicated that it may have left either hair or, with luck, part of a claw embedded within the wall, but the field faded fast.

The wall has been left intact. "Only a fool will destroy something to see how it works."

They just SO don't understand.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Yeah_Right
Erik doesn't have evidence he's just like the other woos that want us to believe without question. It's either that or he's got nothing better to do than goof around on this message board.

Exactly what are you doing here that is worth while? At least you got rid of that silly dog. All you skeptix destroy, but you never build. Never do research. :p

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by H3LL
Hmm!

I'm curious about your estimations of time intervals while out-of-phase/manifested.

We had the Yeti clearly walk through a 10cm brick wall.

Curiously, it walked around temple buildings. One can only speculate that living with this creature for so long they may be familiar with its limitations and how long it can be out-of-phase before re-manifesting without slipping into temporal-transfer. The temple walls are noticably thicker and the monks are curiously tight-lipped when trying to get construction details.

As for evidence. We still have the wall. These so-called sceptics can stick that in their collective pipes and smoke it.

I'm assured that a latent field (possibly quantum) indicated that it may have left either hair or, with luck, part of a claw embedded within the wall, but the field faded fast.

The wall has been left intact. "Only a fool will destroy something to see how it works."

They just SO don't understand.


Bigfoot never told me. Nor you.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Yeah_Right
Erik doesn't have evidence he's just like the other woos that want us to believe without question. It's either that or he's got nothing better to do than goof around on this message board.

Appearantly you skeptix are too dumb to see that I never claimed to have the final proof, at all, or ever.

You guys asleep???



BONK!

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by SezMe
Hmm, here are a few reasons, just for starters:

- ALL CAPS responses. Yelling does not imply validity.
- Multiple "?" does not imply validity.
- Lack of independently verifiable evidence.
- Argument from Authority ("I have been at this for X years").
- Lack of logical, rational, scientific evidence.
- Wacky web site with numerous unrelated claims that are, well, silly.
- Photos that are blurry, subject to interpretation, etc.
- Personal hubris ("rescue the intelligent 2%")

and on and on and on and on.

That, erik, is an example of what we here call "evidence". Got some?

rEPLY -- GO BACK AND READ ALL MY POSTS.

As for style, who cares? This is a trivial board.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by TjW
Well, then, I think you ought to sit down.

Trivial post. Trivial guy.

[erikbeckjord]

You guys do no research.
You jump to conclusions about what is claimed, or not.
You wallow in trivial discourse.
You have not read any of the relevant books.
You do not know the major or minor authors.
You do not contribute, except to try (badly) to tear down.
Some of you babble.
One person had a good idea -- brava... re sharp photos of a fuzzy
life form.
One person promotes out of date ideas..LAL (Lu-Woo)
None of you seem to know why you are here.

I'm not very impressed.

EB

[LAL]

If being interested in Sasquatches since 1968 makes me a newbie, I'm a newbie, but Beckjord is completely wrong on my gender. Odd, since I made it clear on the other thread, which he seems to have read. I'm as up-to-date as I can get, especially regarding incidents in April this year in two countries.

Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.

[Psiload]

Originally posted by SpaceFluffer
Sir, I would not be in the woods with you were everything else on fire. It sounds like this guy should have done likewise:

http://www.24hourscholar.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_6_23/ai_57533282

Looking for Mr. Goodape
Skeptical Inquirer, Nov, 1999 by Robert Sheaffer

Pretty funny. :D

And check this out:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/vile.html

Also: in air, to disable hijackers, as a LAST resort, open emergency door or emergency window a crack, if you can, try to be tied in with seat belt or other straps, and DECOMPRESS THE PLANE. Pilot will have to dive plane to get to lower altitude. In some cases, this may crash the plane, but this is better than dying by smashing into the Empire State Building and killing thousands.

Also: the Beckjord Blanket Blocking technique can enable you to fend off a knife with folded blanket while you and others hit hijackers with anything you can - fists, laptop, trays,bottles, your pulled-out belt with heavy buckle at end, even shaken champagne (in first class),etc.

Also: Muslims abhor pig meat. Do not laugh, but if you bring on canned Spam, which is pig meat, you can open it and throw bits at them, to force them back. You must chant: "Pig meat!" over and over. Some, not all, will recoil and back off.

:jaw:

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
REPLY: TOTALLY MORONIC Q. \

Oh, and a friend wanted me to ask you: Why would bigfeet shapeshift so much? Seems like a big waste of energy.

====ARE ALL OF YOU THIS WAY?

BONK!
Fallacy: Appeal to Ridicule (http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/appeal-to-ridicule.html)

[LTC8K6]

http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/bfufo.html

Oh! Now I get it! :D

[Ripley Twenty-Nine]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
You guys do no research.
You jump to conclusions about what is claimed, or not.
You wallow in trivial discourse.
You have not read any of the relevant books.
You do not know the major or minor authors.
You do not contribute, except to try (badly) to tear down.
Some of you babble.
One person had a good idea -- brava... re sharp photos of a fuzzy
life form.
One person promotes out of date ideas..LAL (Lu-Woo)
None of you seem to know why you are here.

I'm not very impressed.

EB
You seem amazed that noone believes that Bigfoot is a shapeshifting alien. You say you have no evidence to prove this besides blurry photos of treestumps and clouds.

Please, very simply, tell us, why should we believe this? "Because I said so" does not qualify as a reason.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by Psiload
And check this out:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/vile.html



Also: in air, to disable hijackers, as a LAST resort, open emergency door or emergency window a crack, if you can, try to be tied in with seat belt or other straps, and DECOMPRESS THE PLANE. Pilot will have to dive plane to get to lower altitude. In some cases, this may crash the plane, but this is better than dying by smashing into the Empire State Building and killing thousands.


1) It is impossible to open an emergency window or exit "a crack". Once the locking safeguards are removed, they are designed to open fully and immediately. Given the way these are constructed, it may not even be possible to open them while in flight - internal cabin pressure might make pulling the window or door inward impossible. Even if it were possible - depending on the height of the plane - the explosive decompression that follows may even result in loss of flight control. If the hijacker's intention is not to crash the plane, but to hold hostages and make demands, then these actions would put people on the ground in great danger unnecessarily.

2) The pilot (assuming he or she keeps control) will indeed have to dive the plane. Which is exactly what a hijacker would want if his intention was to crash the plane into a building anyway.

3) Unlike the Twin Trade Towers and other recent construction, a completely different support structure was used in the Empire State Building. The Trade Towers were designed to flex, and it was the external structure of the building that maintained it's integrity. The Empire State Building is designed to tolerate flexing, and the support structure is embedded inside the building, not on the outside. This results in a much more stable and resistant structure to outside impact.

In point of fact, on July 28, 1945 a B-25 bomber hit the 78th floor of the Empire State Building at approximately 200 - 250 miles per hour. The plane penetrated the building, and the damage - while signficant - did not render the structure unstable or in danger of collapse.

Here is a story (http://history1900s.about.com/library/misc/blempirecrash.htm) about the crash; and here is a rather famous picture (http://www.evesmag.com/empirestatecrash.htm) of the result.

Bear in mind that while modern jets are larger than B-25's and fly faster (and weigh more), they are composed of materials that are much more fragile than those used in the B-25. The B-25 bomber was built of more durable material (little or no plastic, fiberglass and no composite materials!) - the superstructure and wings were designed to take a great deal of punishment in a combat zone and remain intact.

At first, I considered Mr. Beckjord as either an amusing troll or a mildly deluded individual. Based on the kinds of dangerous advice he's apparently giving on things that he's obviously unqualified to deal with, I am no longer amused and consider him dangerously deluded.

[Cleon]

jmercer, keep in mind you're trying to debunk the words of a man who, by all appearances, doesn't seem to be on very good speaking terms with reality.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by jmercer
1) It is impossible to open an emergency window or exit "a crack". Once the locking safeguards are removed, they are designed to open fully and immediately. Given the way these are constructed, it may not even be possible to open them while in flight - internal cabin pressure might make pulling the window or door inward impossible. Even if it were possible - depending on the height of the plane - the explosive decompression that follows may even result in loss of flight control. If the hijacker's intention is not to crash the plane, but to hold hostages and make demands, then these actions would put people on the ground in great danger unnecessarily.

2) The pilot (assuming he or she keeps control) will indeed have to dive the plane. Which is exactly what a hijacker would want if his intention was to crash the plane into a building anyway.

3) Unlike the Twin Trade Towers and other recent construction, a completely different support structure was used in the Empire State Building. The Trade Towers were designed to flex, and it was the external structure of the building that maintained it's integrity. The Empire State Building is designed to tolerate flexing, and the support structure is embedded inside the building, not on the outside. This results in a much more stable and resistant structure to outside impact.

In point of fact, on July 28, 1945 a B-25 bomber hit the 78th floor of the Empire State Building at approximately 200 - 250 miles per hour. The plane penetrated the building, and the damage - while signficant - did not render the structure unstable or in danger of collapse.

Here is a story (http://history1900s.about.com/library/misc/blempirecrash.htm) about the crash; and here is a rather famous picture (http://www.evesmag.com/empirestatecrash.htm) of the result.

Bear in mind that while modern jets are larger than B-25's and fly faster (and weigh more), they are composed of materials that are much more fragile than those used in the B-25. The B-25 bomber was built of more durable material (little or no plastic, fiberglass and no composite materials!) - the superstructure and wings were designed to take a great deal of punishment in a combat zone and remain intact.

At first, I considered Mr. Beckjord as either an amusing troll or a mildly deluded individual. Based on the kinds of dangerous advice he's apparently giving on things that he's obviously unqualified to deal with, I am no longer amused and consider him dangerously deluded. My point is to find some way, making a hole with an emergency ax, or knife or breaker bar or something, to cause decompression.
Making the plane dive does not mean making it crash. BONK! In an extreme case, hmmm.... partially opening a removeable window, excape window, not a door, may help to decompress.. it is worth a try. If I recall, you loosen teh latch and pull it in, then, officially, you are supposed to turn it sideways and toss it out. By pulling a few inches in, you might decompress the plane and make thand make the hijackers go unconsious. The pilots have masks and can breathe., If the crash were to the Empire State Building, the losses may be 100s and not 1000s, BUT SO WHAT? You ***** would sit in your seats and do nothing and die. At least do what the flt 93 people did and die honorably. You guys are negative,negative, in a word, skeptix. Boring ones at that.

NATTERING NANNYGOATS OF NEGATIVITY

i AM OFFERING ATTEMPTS AT SOLUTIONS... YOU JUST SIT THERE AND BLEAT "NAY,NAY,NAY" NAAAAAAAAYYYY -- IT TAKES NO TALENT TO BE A CRITIC.

[Psiload]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
My point is to find some way, making a hole with an emergency ax, or knife or breaker bar or something, to cause decompression.
Making the plane dive does not mean making it crash. BONK! In an extreme case, hmmm.... partially opening a removeable window, excape window, not a door, may help to decompress.. it is worth a try. If I recall, you loosen teh latch and pull it in, then, officially, you are supposed to turn it sideways and toss it out. By pulling a few inches in, you might decompress the plane and make thand make the hijackers go unconsious. The pilots have masks and can breathe., If the crash were to the Empire State Building, the losses may be 100s and not 1000s, BUT SO WHAT? You ***** would sit in your seats and do nothing and die. At least do what the flt 93 people did and die honorably. You guys are negative,negative, in a word, skeptix. Boring ones at that.

NATTERING NANNYGOATS OF NEGATIVITY

i AM OFFERING ATTEMPTS AT SOLUTIONS... YOU JUST SIT THERE AND BLEAT "NAY,NAY,NAY" NAAAAAAAAYYYY -- IT TAKES NO TALENT TO BE A CRITIC. Emergency exits on commercial airplanes are specifically designed to not function while a plane is at altitude.

The reason for this is very simple. People like yourself.

Let's see... they won't let me on a plane these days with tweezers or a set of nail clippers, yet I'm supposed to grab my trusty ax and my pry bar to decompress the plane? Or I can use a knife? You mean like the butter knife they give me with my in-flight meal? Yeah... I'll breach the pressure hull of a 727 with a butter knife, that should do the trick in no time.

I guess I'll just have to take you on flights with me from now on... put that thick skull of yours to good use.

[LTC8K6]

The oxygen masks will deploy in the event of a decompression. Anyone who is awake and alert will not go unconscious. There will be no need to "crash dive" the plane dangerously unless there is a malfunction with the oxygen. A smooth descent will be made to a safe altitude.

Mythbusters has shown pretty conclusively that explosive decompression is largely a myth, anyway. They tried shooting a hole in a window, and blowing out a whole window.

Decompression resulted, but nothing spectacular and nothing big would have been sucked out. Both holes in the fuselage were too small and decompression was too slow to suck anything but paper out.

To get any real effect on a passenger, a large chunk of the fuselage had to be blown out, making a really big hole, like that flight where a big chunk of roof came off of the plane.

If you crack open the door, you won't get any explosive decompression, period. You'll just hear a lot of noise until the pressure equalizes.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
My point is to find some way, making a hole with an emergency ax, or knife or breaker bar or something, to cause decompression.
Making the plane dive does not mean making it crash. BONK! In an extreme case, hmmm.... partially opening a removeable window, excape window, not a door, may help to decompress.. it is worth a try. If I recall, you loosen teh latch and pull it in, then, officially, you are supposed to turn it sideways and toss it out. By pulling a few inches in, you might decompress the plane and make thand make the hijackers go unconsious. The pilots have masks and can breathe., If the crash were to the Empire State Building, the losses may be 100s and not 1000s, BUT SO WHAT? You ***** would sit in your seats and do nothing and die. At least do what the flt 93 people did and die honorably. You guys are negative,negative, in a word, skeptix. Boring ones at that.


Tell you what. You try to get an ax, knife or breaker bar onto a commercial airliner and tell me what happens. :D

I withdraw any concerns about explosive decompression based on LTC86's post - thanks LT. :)

Regarding what I would do, Mr. Beckjord - you have not the slightest idea of what I would do (or am capable of doing) in such a situation. Sitting in my seat like a sheep isn't among my choices, however.

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
NATTERING NANNYGOATS OF NEGATIVITY


Got a thing for hairy animals, do you? My goodness... Bigfoot had better sleep with one eye open!

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
i AM OFFERING ATTEMPTS AT SOLUTIONS... YOU JUST SIT THERE AND BLEAT "NAY,NAY,NAY" NAAAAAAAAYYYY -- IT TAKES NO TALENT TO BE A CRITIC. [/B]

You should be a fine critic, then. :D

[jmercer]

Originally posted by LTC8K6
The oxygen masks will deploy in the event of a decompression. Anyone who is awake and alert will not go unconscious. There will be no need to "crash dive" the plane dangerously unless there is a malfunction with the oxygen. A smooth descent will be made to a safe altitude.

Mythbusters has shown pretty conclusively that explosive decompression is largely a myth, anyway. They tried shooting a hole in a window, and blowing out a whole window.

Decompression resulted, but nothing spectacular and nothing big would have been sucked out. Both holes in the fuselage were too small and decompression was too slow to suck anything but paper out.

To get any real effect on a passenger, a large chunk of the fuselage had to be blown out, making a really big hole, like that flight where a big chunk of roof came off of the plane.

If you crack open the door, you won't get any explosive decompression, period. You'll just hear a lot of noise until the pressure equalizes.

Excellent post. The whole idea of opening up one of these in-flight seemed bizarre to me, so I was just going based on logic and memory of how I'd seen these things put together. Nice catch on the Mythbusters show - didn't know they'd done that...

[Beady]

Originally posted by LTC8K6
If you crack open the door, you won't get any explosive decompression, period. You'll just hear a lot of noise until the pressure equalizes.

On Soyuz 12(?) the decompress valve was accidentally opened during reentry. Decompression wasn't exactly instantaneous, but it still only took about 30 seconds. When the ground crew found the capsule there was virtually no physical indication of what happened; they even thought, at first, that the crew were asleep.

That occurred at roughly 100 miles altitude. I can't imagine that decompression at 1/10th that altitude would be worse.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by Beady
On Soyuz 12(?)

Soyuz 11. Not that it matters... a tragedy.

[misawafan]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord

i AM OFFERING ATTEMPTS AT SOLUTIONS... YOU JUST SIT THERE AND BLEAT "NAY,NAY,NAY" NAAAAAAAAYYYY -- IT TAKES NO TALENT TO BE A CRITIC. [/B]

I'll join in - just have a box with free guns/weapons for every passenger. See, I'm no bleater.

I'll give you this, your posts have certainly been eye-opening...

[LAL]

Originally posted by Mr. Skinny
If you already know stills are not enough, and never are, and you also don't care if we accept your evidence, why, exactly, have you come here?

Just curious.

Also, didn't someone admit that he faked that "famous" bigfoot video?

No. You may be thinking of Ray Wallace. He didn't fake anything important.

http://www.bigfootresearch.org/Bigfoot_ray%20wallace.htm

[LAL]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Reply:we have no evidence acceptable to science. OK? But we have a 23 ft 16mm film, FWIW. Also blood and hair and a claim of DNA.



Let me get this straight. You say there is blood and a claim of DNA but they are not flesh and blood beings.
Okaaaaaaaaaaaay.

[LAL]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I am here to search for the very few, not you, intelligent
people.

Also to deflate this pompous LAL person, who really thinks she is

somebody


I'm pompous? Oh, my sides.
I have no idea who would send you favorable PM's, but it certainly wasn't me. Do I have your permission to post some of your comments to me? Other posters might be interested to see what kind of PM's you send.

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
Well bless my hole Erik, or should I say Cedrip, when did they let you out?

You wouldn't be pestering the folks here at the JREF Forum with your wild stories of riding in UFOs, seeing bigfoot in a bag of chips, taking ghost photos, or other such nonsense would you?

RayG



:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Same RayG? Whew. I think I'll take a break.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by jmercer
3) Unlike the Twin Trade Towers and other recent construction, a completely different support structure was used in the Empire State Building. The Trade Towers were designed to flex, and it was the external structure of the building that maintained it's integrity. The Empire State Building is designed to tolerate flexing, and the support structure is embedded inside the building, not on the outside. This results in a much more stable and resistant structure to outside impact.

In point of fact, on July 28, 1945 a B-25 bomber hit the 78th floor of the Empire State Building at approximately 200 - 250 miles per hour. The plane penetrated the building, and the damage - while signficant - did not render the structure unstable or in danger of collapse.
A B-25 wouldn't have done much damage to the WTC either. The big difference between the B-25 and a jetliner (besides size and speed) is the amount and type of fuel used.
B-25: A few hundred gallons of gasoline.
767: Thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

It was the burning jet fuel that weakened the towers and caused the collapse. I doubt the Empire State Building would have fared much better.

[Morris Cod]

Errr...sorry,I seem to have stumbled upon the Muppet Show forum.

My mistake.

By the way which muppet was Eric? Was he the drummer? Or one of the old heckling guys from the balcony?

:D

[LAL]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
reply: got ten pms of support, and one critical. (LAL) ;)

Would you like me to post them? I replied to most of your ranting, demanding, insulting, veiled obscenity- filled posts. You sent me 12 PM's, I replied to 10.

Do you tell the truth about anything?

[RayG]

Originally posted by LAL
:biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:

Same RayG? Whew. I think I'll take a break.

Yup, dat be me. I couldn't resist the urge to roast Cedrip's nuts over an open fire. :D

I'm still waiting for his detailed explanation of shape-shifting. It should at least prove entertaining, cause I don't expect anything intelligent.

Take care LAL yer doing fine.

RayG

[RayG]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1_Because I cannot stand moronic thinking...

Then take DOWN yer moronic website Cedrip, that'll eliminate a whole truckload of moronic thinking in one fell swoop.

RayG

[LAL]

Originally posted by Morris Cod
Errr...sorry,I seem to have stumbled upon the Muppet Show forum.

My mistake.

By the way which muppet was Eric? Was he the drummer? Or one of the old heckling guys from the balcony?

:D

That's an insult to Muppets everywhere.

Here's this for those who didn't see it on the other thread:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/beckjord.html

[LAL]

I would have been much more critical of Beckjord's ideas in PM's, but I realized with the second PM he probably is seriously delusional and I'm trained to be non-judgmental when dealing with people who exhibit symptoms. However, he insists I'm the one who's bonkers, therefore I feel justified in saying his ideas are pure hooey.

Besides, I'm not on the clock.

[Mr. Skinny]

Originally posted by WildCat
A B-25 wouldn't have done much damage to the WTC either. The big difference between the B-25 and a jetliner (besides size and speed) is the amount and type of fuel used.
B-25: A few hundred gallons of gasoline.
767: Thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

It was the burning jet fuel that weakened the towers and caused the collapse. I doubt the Empire State Building would have fared much better.
WildCat,

I sort of agree and disagree at the same time with some of this.

I'm nitpicking somewhat. As I understand it, in the WTC incident, the jet fuel (JP-8?) all burned up within a minute or so (trying to recall the NOVA show here) but set everything else on fire, destroyed fire stops, etc., and also messed up the fireproofing material on the structural steel, allowing it to heat up to the point of failure.

The B-25 incident, if in fact it was using gasoline, would have been far more explosive (pound for pound) than a similar plane with jet fuel.

Ach......bottom line is, I'm not sure the two events are comparable.....different fuels, different structures, speeds, size, etc.

I'm just having a hard time trying to compare/contrast the two events.

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
Yup, dat be me. I couldn't resist the urge to roast Cedrip's nuts over an open fire. :D

I'm still waiting for his detailed explanation of shape-shifting. It should at least prove entertaining, cause I don't expect anything intelligent.

Take care LAL yer doing fine.

RayG

Ah, thank you.

I just got a PM from someone who tried to be civil to Chestnuts and got a rebuke for his trouble. Beckjord is so outrageous I got a couple of apologies from sceptics for thinking I'm a "woo".

He's good for something after all. ;)

[LAL]

Originally posted by LTC8K6
http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/bfufo.html

Oh! Now I get it! :D

Dang! If I had a big, smelly, hairy hominid in my UFO, I'd drop it off too.

[Hitch]

Originally posted by Morris Cod
Errr...sorry,I seem to have stumbled upon the Muppet Show forum.

My mistake.

By the way which muppet was Eric? Was he the drummer? Or one of the old heckling guys from the balcony?

:D

Mr. Beckjord is all about the science, so my guess would be Beaker. (He doesn't have enough class to be Dr. Bunson Honeydew.)

[Hitch]

Originally posted by LAL
Ah, thank you.

I just got a PM from someone who tried to be civil to Chestnuts and got a rebuke for his trouble. Beckjord is so outrageous I got a couple of apologies from sceptics for thinking I'm a "woo".

He's good for something after all. ;)

I still think you're a woo, but at least you're capable of rational discussion. ;)

[Yeah_Right]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Exactly what are you doing here that is worth while? At least you got rid of that silly dog. All you skeptix destroy, but you never build. Never do research. :p

Well I live in Southwestern Ontario Canada, hardly prime bigfoot country so doing field research is hardly feasible. As for reading and looking at pics, well that there is just anecdotal evidence.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by WildCat
A B-25 wouldn't have done much damage to the WTC either. The big difference between the B-25 and a jetliner (besides size and speed) is the amount and type of fuel used.
B-25: A few hundred gallons of gasoline.
767: Thousands of gallons of jet fuel.

It was the burning jet fuel that weakened the towers and caused the collapse. I doubt the Empire State Building would have fared much better.

Well... we'll never know, thank goodness. However, the structure of the Twins was that all the strength was in it's outer shell. Once that was weakened, it collapsed. The ESB, constructed with self-reinforcing internal girders can take a lot more punishment (fire and/or impact) before the structure would collapse.

Having the same kind of jet hit the ESB would probably make it a condemned building, but I seriously doubt it would have collapsed.

[Yeah_Right]

Almost forgot the silly dog, sorry.

:dl:

[H3LL]

Can someone explain why erik"I'm-so-crazy-I-should-have-a-disorder-named-after-me" beckjord randomly scatters BONK! in his posts?

I ask as it's the only mildly interesting aspect of any of his <strike>rantings</strike> posts.

My only guess is that he belongs to a group that are bonkers.



I'll get back later, as I have Yeti, Bigfoot, Meh-Teh, Rakshas and Sasquatch arguing with some guy in a dressing-gown and throwing letters painted on small stones all over the apartment. I think they arrived in some car that the guy mentioned.

[erikbeckjord]

Content removed, breach of Membership Agreement.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by H3LL
Can someone explain why erik"I'm-so-crazy-I-should-have-a-disorder-named-after-me" beckjord randomly scatters BONK! in his posts?

I ask as it's the only mildly interesting aspect of any of his <strike>rantings</strike> posts.

My only guess is that he belongs to a group that are bonkers.



I'll get back later, as I have Yeti, Bigfoot, Meh-Teh, Rakshas and Sasquatch arguing with some guy in a dressing-gown and throwing letters painted on small stones all over the apartment. I think they arrived in some car that the guy mentioned.

GO WATCH OLD THREE STOOGES MOVIES.....AND UNDERSTAND BONK IS ON YOU! IT MEANS YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

BONK!

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by jmercer
Well... we'll never know, thank goodness. However, the structure of the Twins was that all the strength was in it's outer shell. Once that was weakened, it collapsed. The ESB, constructed with self-reinforcing internal girders can take a lot more punishment (fire and/or impact) before the structure would collapse.

Having the same kind of jet hit the ESB would probably make it a condemned building, but I seriously doubt it would have collapsed.

yOU GUYS ALL MISS THE POINT -- IN A TERROR HIJACKING, IT IS BETTER TO WRECK THE PLANE AND DIE THAN TO LET THE TERRORISTS FLY INTO ANYTHING, ANY SIZE, ANYWHERE.BECAUSE YOU WILL BE DEAD THEN ANYWAY, BONK!

Where are the skeptix intellectuals??????? WHERE????????

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Hitch
Mr. Beckjord is all about the science, so my guess would be Beaker. (He doesn't have enough class to be Dr. Bunson Honeydew.)

too stupid to spell my name.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Psiload
It sounds like this guy should have done likewise:

http://www.24hourscholar.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_6_23/ai_57533282

Looking for Mr. Goodape
Skeptical Inquirer, Nov, 1999 by Robert Sheaffer

Pretty funny. :D

And check this out:

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/vile.html



:jaw:




Tossing pig meat at Muslims is a good technique in a terror jacking. Why do you question it? As I recall, GREAT RIOTS started in India when it was rumoured that pig grease was put on rifle cartridges for the Indian troops.... so I see you bonkers guys state some quiote form me, as if THAT MEANS IT IS BAD...when it is just good thinking. Next -- powdered pig spray like MACE to spray on terror muslims. Hey, put it in mortar shell for Iraq.. if it works, do it. To tell with religious respect.

[erikbeckjord]

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/vile.html

this guy is against EVERYBODY, and many have sued him and his isp.

Are you so stupid as to believe anything you see on the net?

"Ah geeze, I saw it ona website, so must be true........duh///"

[H3LL]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
GO WATCH OLD THREE STOOGES MOVIES.....AND UNDERSTAND BONK IS ON YOU! IT MEANS YOU ARE AN IDIOT.

BONK!

Why, thank you. Very informative, even though I already know I'm an idiot.

Bonk has other meanings where I come from. It's not so scary now.

I have seen very few Three Stooges movies, but I'm sure it must work well for you on international forums.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
yOU GUYS ALL MISS THE POINT -- IN A TERROR HIJACKING, IT IS BETTER TO WRECK THE PLANE AND DIE THAN TO LET THE TERRORISTS FLY INTO ANYTHING, ANY SIZE, ANYWHERE.BECAUSE YOU WILL BE DEAD THEN ANYWAY, BONK!

Where are the skeptix intellectuals??????? WHERE????????

The problem has always traditionally been that prior to 9/11, the airline's policies (as suggested by the FBI and other law-enforcement agencies) was to do what the terrorists WANT while the government tried to figure out a way to kill the terrorists without killing the passengers. This still holds true on the ground; but in the air there are now provisions for the military to shoot down hijacked airliners.

100-200 passengers on average in any given flight.

3-4 terrorists.

Unless you think terrorists are supermen, the odds are against them as long as enough people are willing to jump their a$$es. But no; you would prefer that they spend their time trying to crash the plane by attempting to open unopenable windows and doors - which wouldn't crash the plane anyway!.

And, of course, you apparently expect the terrorists to politely stand there and watch them attempt this sabotage instead of slashing that passenger to death, right?

Go get psychiatric help.

[LAL]

Well, well. Looks like Voldemort got suspended.
Yes, Virginia, there is a moderator.
Would anyone like to carry on without him?

[The Odd Emperor]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
http://www.ufowatchdog.com/vile.html

this guy is against EVERYBODY, and many have sued him and his isp.

Are you so stupid as to believe anything you see on the net?

"Ah geeze, I saw it ona website, so must be true........duh///"


The fellow that runs UFO Watchdog and I have corresponded once or twice. Although I’m not too sure about his particular style, he tends to do his homework and I haven’t found him to be a liar. The “many lawsuits� seems to be a *single* attempt by someone to sue UFO Watchdog for libel. It got thrown out.

http://www.ufowatchdog.com/mortonloses.html

[jmercer]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Tossing pig meat at Muslims is a good technique in a terror jacking. Why do you question it? As I recall, GREAT RIOTS started in India when it was rumoured that pig grease was put on rifle cartridges for the Indian troops.... so I see you bonkers guys state some quiote form me, as if THAT MEANS IT IS BAD...when it is just good thinking. Next -- powdered pig spray like MACE to spray on terror muslims. Hey, put it in mortar shell for Iraq.. if it works, do it. To tell with religious respect.

Oh, that's beautiful, Erik. Just fantastic. Let's just piss off all the innocent devout Muslims everywhere for the sake of annoying a few terrorists, shall we? Oh, and by the way... what are the passengers supposed to do? Scream "It's PORK!" as they throw it?

If I see a terrorist I'm going to toss something a lot more effective than dead pig meat at him.

Go get psychiatric help.

[jmercer]

Originally posted by LAL
Well, well. Looks like Voldemort got suspended.
Yes, Virginia, there is a moderator.
Would anyone like to carry on without him?

Awww... damn. When did that happen? I didn't notice it!

[The Odd Emperor]

Originally posted by LAL
Well, well. Looks like Voldemort got suspended.
Yes, Virginia, there is a moderator.
Would anyone like to carry on without him?


Good grief! I didn’t notice either.

[LAL]

Originally posted by jmercer
Awww... damn. When did that happen? I didn't notice it!

Must've been this morning. One of his posts was in clear violation of board standards.

Gosh, I'll miss him. :(

He PM'd me his phone number. I guess I could call him and apologize for being right. ;)

[Gr8wight]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
You understand that Bigfoot is not proven by science to be an f&b animal. It is also not proven by science (nor me) to be
a supernatural being. On the other hand, if it were, I would not
bother being on this board, but would be in Stockholm getting the Nobel Prize. Right?

All I can do is show supernatural ACTIVITY such as tracks that disappear, and for you to believe, you need to be in the woods
with me and you ain't.

BUT on my website there are photos of such tracks
from Brian Smith's video.

Many of you will sluff this off and call me a liar.

(I tell no lies... Eagle Scout and USAF Academy cadet.)

Now if this is not enuff, and stills never are, I will not lose sleep if
you do not accept it. (as if I care...)

My respect is for field researchers who GO OUT and share and witness this stuff...

Brian Smith, Henry Franzoni, Shelly Binkley, Peter Guttilla,
StanGordon and others.

(but not anonymoist posters)

Many of you will live in denial, a place in Egypt.



;)

Wow. That's a really long and drawn out way of saying, "I don't actually have any evidence."

[LAL]

Originally posted by Gr8wight
Wow. That's a really long and drawn out way of saying, "I don't actually have any evidence."

He says the beings spoke to him in his head. That should be proof enough for anybody. :rr:

I wonder if he's been tried on Resperdol?

[LAL]

Originally posted by H3LL
Why, thank you. Very informative, even though I already know I'm an idiot.

Bonk has other meanings where I come from. It's not so scary now.

I have seen very few Three Stooges movies, but I'm sure it must work well for you on international forums.


I get it! Beckjord's saying he's Moe. :hit:

[LAL]

Originally posted by H3LL
Can someone explain why erik"I'm-so-crazy-I-should-have-a-disorder-named-after-me" beckjord randomly scatters BONK! in his posts?

I ask as it's the only mildly interesting aspect of any of his <strike>rantings</strike> posts.

My only guess is that he belongs to a group that are bonkers.




:hit:

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Erik is here and it is a new ball game.




* Doubtful. New player, same old game.





I said this in 1995 on Henry Franzoni's IVBC list, and all hell broke loose. I introduced the paranormal/supernatural/tulpa/alien concept, and was immediately attacked most viciously
by all the non-researcher newbies there. (This has continued on most all boards ever since).


* What a surprise{NOT}When you offer incredible tripe without evidence it is usually met with attack by those who argue using facts instead of opinion.*








BUT we have tracks that end in snow and mud, for no good reason

and which also start from nowhere and this royally bugs
non-researcher newbies like LAL and his buddies on
bigfootforumsbuffoons-com.


* Tracks that start from "nowhere" do not exist in reality. Whether detectable is another question entirely. Tracks always begin and end in reality, not in imaginary places.*




Now they ban me there because I once cussed out someone who
cussed me out first, but also because i offer good, hard, reasoning and events and evidence that shows their F&B
idea is totally "so 1900s".



* I doubt that you were ousted for presenting hard evidence. The cursing seems a more likely candidate.*



Now, send your brickbats, bad logic, and so on to me here or
visit http://www.bigfoot.org and get the real truth, as far as we know it.

Also I am at rudy@stealthaccess.net



I also note that most posters lack the basic cojones to say
who they are


* Irrelevant to any argument. This is a ploy to pretend that if you say who you really are then perhaps you tell the truth about other things too. Illogical.*



unless this is in their profiles, and I doubt most are.

Iam -- Jon-Erik Beckjord, MBA, director, the Bigfoot Investigation Project and yes, I once thought like you do
but I encountered evidence, and I am no fool, that made me
change. 29 years at this. I am a "semi-expert" snce nobody except abductees is an actualy expert, but I did interview two of those. (Will be in my book).

* So called experts and semi-experts are most often self professed {on these boards that is} One who presents facts, evidence and logic need not dictate their character to others; it will come out through your posts. Anybody can pretend to be anyone on these boards but the proof is in the pudding as they say and your pudding stinks so far. Your claim to not being a fool will also be disclosed through your messages, not through your claims.*





So --- have at it -- I can take your very worst. And then convert you.


* The word "convert" inspires thoughts of religion. Is that what you espouse? Fanatacism and fundamentalist thoughts usually make one seem foolish. You cannot make anybody on these boards to change their outlooks by posting what you claim to be evidence without some corroboration from outside sources that people can look up for themselves. *



Erik

:D

[LAL]

Originally posted by Hitch
I still think you're a woo, but at least you're capable of rational discussion. ;)

Thanks for the correction.
You'll have to buy your own coffee, though.
I suggest you drop in over at BFF where the guys that really know their stuff hang out. There are some good sceptical arguments there. If nothing else, you might be able to pick up some new ammunition.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
;)

[LAL]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
Now they ban me there because I once cussed out someone who
cussed me out first, but also because i offer good, hard, reasoning and events and evidence that shows their F&B
idea is totally "so 1900s".



* I doubt that you were ousted for presenting hard evidence. The cursing seems a more likely candidate.*



Beckjord was banned permanently from BFF after a series of harrassing phone calls to a moderator (Paul). The link is further back in this thread.

He's been suspended here for cursing, and no one cursed him first.

If all "researchers" were like him I wouldn't touch this with somebody else's 10' pole.

I hope everyone will click on the link to Dr. Meldrum's Canadian TV interview I posted to see what a mild-mannered methodical scientist explaining the midtarsal bend looks like.

Meldrum's no "woo".

[Gr8wight]

Originally posted by LAL
He says the beings spoke to him in his head. That should be proof enough for anybody. :rr:


Hey, if it's good enough for the pope...

[Aussie Thinker]

Whew,

I start to feel like I need to do a course on psychology or mental illness.

If that guy wasn’t so demented it would almost have been funny.

I think the mods did the right thing and pulled the plug on the loon. While we love nothing better than banter with the moron it is just a waste of time !

[Beady]

Originally posted by Aussie Thinker
I think the mods did the right thing and pulled the plug on the loon. While we love nothing better than banter with the moron it is just a waste of time !

He was just suspended, not banned. However, there doesn't seem to be a notice, like there usually is, on how long the suspension will last.

Well, a lot of the loons never come back after a suspension,anyway.

[Diamond]

Originally posted by Beady
He was just suspended, not banned. However, there doesn't seem to be a notice, like there usually is, on how long the suspension will last.

Well, a lot of the loons never come back after a suspension,anyway.

Only five days, apparently.

Does anyone think Beckjord a) will mend his ways and b) is a good recommendation for the JREF?

[jmercer]

a) no.
b) yes, assuming you mean suspension vs. banning on the initial violation.

[Diamond]

Originally posted by jmercer
a) no.
b) yes, assuming you mean suspension vs. banning on the initial violation.

No, I meant: is conversing with Beckjord going to impress visitors to the JREF?

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by Gr8wight
Hey, if it's good enough for the pope...



And good enough for Son Of Sam...

[The Odd Emperor]

Originally posted by Diamond
Only five days, apparently.

Does anyone think Beckjord a) will mend his ways and b) is a good recommendation for the JREF?


Answer;

a) No.
b) The attitude and response he gets at JREF can be a good recommendation for the forum as a whole. If people can keep their heads about them and continue the discussion despite the noise level.

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Why should you doubt me? (Go see the books of ghost photos at
Gettysburgh civil war field.)

I don;t put lies on websites.

Besides, Nicole got her revenge...

OJ has lost his hair.

:p

WHEN DO I MEET SOME INTELLECTUAL SKEPTIX??? I'VE DEBATED THE MAJOR ONES OFF THE NET.


* Here I am. I have written and denied the idea that you or anybody else is a bigfoot expert as that would require knowledge of its anatomy, physiology, ecology, origins, ancestry, diet, classification, examination of both live and dead specimens, intense and sustained observation. etc. I doubt that you are evn an expert in the required fields to ever become a bigfoot expert even shoiuld there be found thousands of them. Are you an expert in ichthology. trichology, scatology, genetics, zoology, systematics, cladistics, phytobiogeography?Your claims are meaningless babble and it is the rest of us on this board who should be searching elsewhere for intelligent debate for you are not the one to give any.*



Most of you guys think name-calling is actual debate.

[Beady]

Originally posted by Gorillagator


Was there a point to quoting an entire post from earlier in the same thread, while adding absolutely nothing new?

Edited to add: Hmm, out of five total posts to date, this is at least the second time Gorillagator has done this, while a third post (all three in this thread) merely added a non-sensical reply to someone else's post. Sock puppet?

[LAL]

Originally posted by Beady
Was there a point to quoting an entire post from earlier in the same thread, while adding absolutely nothing new?

Nothing new? Did you note it was all bolded and stop without reading it?

I had trouble with the quote feature at first too. It's takes some getting used to, even with experience on this kind of board. Leave out one [/B] and that's all she wrote.



Edited to add: Hmm, out of five total posts to date, this is at least the second time Gorillagator has done this, while a third post (all three in this thread) merely added a non-sensical reply to someone else's post. Sock puppet?

What a lovely welcome to a new member! I think you'll find E.L. isn't what you're used to in the way of fresh meat. The guy knows his stuff.

[Beady]

Originally posted by LAL
I had trouble with the quote feature at first too. It's takes some getting used to, even with experience on this kind of board. Leave out one /B and that's all she wrote.

That's what the "Preview Reply" and "Edit" buttons are for.

What a lovely welcome to a new member! I think you'll find E.L. isn't what you're used to in the way of fresh meat. The guy knows his stuff.

Except how to use the quote feature.

And I'm not looking for "fresh meat." If you, yourself, had more experience, you'd realize that. I just expect a certain level of competence in someone who has made it this far.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Beady

And I'm not looking for "fresh meat." If you, yourself, had more experience, you'd realize that. I just expect a certain level of competence in someone who has made it this far.

I myself and E.L. have plenty of experience, just not on this board. He tends to have his own quoting style elsewhere, too, which is quite readable, if a little unconventional.

I don't know how many boards you've posted on, but coming onto a new one is always like walking into a pack of hyenas. One or more of the regulars can't wait to tear a "newbie" to shreds. On a couple of occasions other posters have come to my defense; that's always appreciated if no longer necessary.

Reminds me of school, somehow.

Do you have some position here that gives you the right to expect a "certain level of competence in someone who has made it this far"?

[LAL]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
And good enough for Son Of Sam...

And Andrea Yates............

[Beady]

Originally posted by LAL
Do you have some position here that gives you the right to expect a "certain level of competence in someone who has made it this far"?

No, and that's my point. Some things, you can reasonably expect that everyone in a given venue knows how to do. If you're on the freeway, the average person has a perfect right to expect that everyone he encounters knows how to drive.

BTW, as long as we're talking about "rights," please show me your authorization to speak in this EL's name? If he's as competent as you say, let him speak for himself.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Beady
No, and that's my point. Some things, you can reasonably expect that everyone in a given venue knows how to do. If you're on the freeway, the average person has a perfect right to expect that everyone he encounters knows how to drive.

BTW, as long as we're talking about "rights," please show me your authorization to speak in this EL's name? If he's as competent as you say, let him speak for himself.

He already has. Did you miss it?

[Beady]

Originally posted by LAL
He already has. Did you miss it?

OK, go ahead and have the last word. I'm done.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Beady
OK, go ahead and have the last word. I'm done.

Bye.

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by Beady
Was there a point to quoting an entire post from earlier in the same thread, while adding absolutely nothing new?

Edited to add: Hmm, out of five total posts to date, this is at least the second time Gorillagator has done this, while a third post (all three in this thread) merely added a non-sensical reply to someone else's post. Sock puppet?


* Writing about nonsensical replies, this last of yours beats all. There sure was a point to repeating my post; The lack of a response which I still have yet to read. when one doesn't recieve a proper answer to a set of questions and evades them like the plague then it only seems proper to corner the person by repeating the same questions again and again until some kind of honest answer appears. But I see that this isn't going to happen here. Instead a sorry critique of my post is the answer which means that you have no proper reply and thus evade the issue by whining about the content of my posts. BTW when will you add something to the forum? Sick puppet?*

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I am here to save you from the error(s) of your ways.

;)


* Well starting from a poor premise such as yours above will lead you to errors as you have surely demonstrated.*

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Reply:we have no evidence acceptable to science. OK? But we have a 23 ft 16mm film, FWIW. Also blood and hair and a claim of DNA.

But this is not enuff. OK? And it is impossible to prove a supernatural thing. But we are trying. Now stop your stupid giggling. Get your a** out there and do some research,.

You want an attempt at proof? http://www.biggfoot.org

Now our best proof of superantural is

Hundreds of trax in snow that are unfakable due to stride, (59 in) and depth, and size, that simply start from nothing and end in one last step.


* Allegedly. Tracks that start from nowhere and lead to nowhere are most likely in your head only.*


On video yet.
Brian Smith.


I also found this four times in snow, mud, grass over mud and more snow. It does happen.


* No it doesn't. Not in reality it doesn't.*



This means:

BF either goes up in a helicopter (none ever seen nor heard) or it is supernatural.



* You forgot a third possibilty; that you are fibbing. Or another possiblity is that you are hallucinating. A fifth possibility is that you misssed the start and end of the alleged tracks.*


Now quityour childiish sniggering, and get real, and assist us. Ditto you other kiddies.

:o

[LAL]

Eric's gone, one more round, Eric's gone..............:v:

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by LAL
Eric's gone, one more round, Eric's gone..............:v:

Reply: as a famous writer once said:

"Don't count your boobies until they are hatched".

[erikbeckjord]

For your forum, make any requirements you like. You can sub me to it, if you want to. eb1sas@yahoo.com, but send actual posts to rudy@stealthaccess.net -- cheers.

[erikbeckjord]

BRAVOS, HE SENT ME SOME INTERESTING EMAILS.

MADE ME SEE SOME FOLKS HERE ARE OK.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Gorillagator



RE MISSED END OF TRACKS.

COMMENT: NO, WE DID NOT.

Obviously, you think we are novices.

Not the case.

Fibbing? Have no time to waste on that. Stop insulting us.

Besides, it is now on video, and de camera, she do not lie, senor.

Brian Smith video. Tracks in snow.

El Erik

:D

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
* Writing about nonsensical replies, this last of yours beats all. There sure was a point to repeating my post; The lack of a response which I still have yet to read. when one doesn't recieve a proper answer to a set of questions and evades them like the plague then it only seems proper to corner the person by repeating the same questions again and again until some kind of honest answer appears. But I see that this isn't going to happen here. Instead a sorry critique of my post is the answer which means that you have no proper reply and thus evade the issue by whining about the content of my posts. BTW when will you add something to the forum? Sick puppet?*



reply: Brava Beady, the smartest on on this forum.

E

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
* Here I am. I have written and denied the idea that you or anybody else is a bigfoot expert as that would require knowledge of its anatomy, physiology, ecology, origins, ancestry, diet, classification, examination of both live and dead specimens, intense and sustained observation. etc. I doubt that you are evn an expert in the required fields to ever become a bigfoot expert even shoiuld there be found thousands of them. Are you an expert in ichthology. trichology, scatology, genetics, zoology, systematics, cladistics, phytobiogeography?Your claims are meaningless babble and it is the rest of us on this board who should be searching elsewhere for intelligent debate for you are not the one to give any.*


reply:

1) I find you an expert on nothing.

2) and yes, there are no total Bigfoot experts because we have no dead bigfoot to study and no live captive supernatural bfs to
study. so you are largely correct.

3) I am a semi-expert, insofar as i think I know some, maybe 1/2 the story, but never ALL OF IT.
4) RE EXPERTS ARE kidnappees.
5) aliens did take me, not bigfoot yet.
6) sad for you, the aliens brought me back, :-)

E





:p

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by The Odd Emperor
Answer;

a) No.
b) The attitude and response he gets at JREF can be a good recommendation for the forum as a whole. If people can keep their heads about them and continue the discussion despite the noise level.

reply:

OD -- this is not a discussion, this is a mosh pit.

e

[H3LL]

I think we're about ready now....

Old Fashioned Chocolate Pudding

4 Servings

2 c Milk
2 tb Butter
2 oz Unsweetened chocolate
2/3 c Sugar
1/3 c Flour
1/4 ts Salt
2 Egg yolks; beaten
1/2 ts Vanilla
Whipped cream; optional

In double boiler over hot, not boiling water, heat
milk, butter and chocolate until the chocolate
melts (it may appear curdled).

Combine sugar, flour and salt. Sprinkle over
chocolate; DO NOT STIR. Cover and cook on
medium-low for 20 minutes. Beat with a spoon until
smooth. Quickly add egg yolks; beating well. Cook
another 2 minutes. Remove from heat and stir in
vanilla. Serve with whipped cream, if desired.

Yum!

[LAL]

Originally posted by H3LL
I think we're about ready now....

Old Fashioned Chocolate Pudding

4 Servings

2 c Milk
2 tb Butter
2 oz Unsweetened chocolate
2/3 c Sugar
1/3 c Flour
1/4 ts Salt
2 Egg yolks; beaten
1/2 ts Vanilla
Whipped cream; optional

In double boiler over hot, not boiling water, heat
milk, butter and chocolate until the chocolate
melts (it may appear curdled).

Combine sugar, flour and salt. Sprinkle over
chocolate; DO NOT STIR. Cover and cook on
medium-low for 20 minutes. Beat with a spoon until
smooth. Quickly add egg yolks; beating well. Cook
another 2 minutes. Remove from heat and stir in
vanilla. Serve with whipped cream, if desired.

Yum!

Awesome! I think I'll try that while I'm deciding to filter or not to filter.

I retract the violin; I spoke too soon.

I want to see that wall.

[RayG]

Drunken Fruit Cake

Drunken Fruit
1 envelope yeast
1/4 cup warm water
1 cup sliced canned peaches
1 cup canned pineapple chunks
1 cup apricot halves, drained
3 cups granulated sugar
1/2 cup brandy
1 cup red maraschino cherries, with juice

Drain peaches and pineapple. Dissolve yeast in warm water. Place all ingredients in a loosely-sealed jar. Keep in a warm, preferably dark, spot. NEVER use a metal spoon in this fruit. Never let the fruit get under less than 3 cups. Every two weeks add 1 cup sugar and 1 cup drained fruit (if using maraschino cherries, use the juice also). You may substitute pear slices or mandarin orange slices.

This is good served over ice cream or pound cake, also.

Drunken Fruit Cake
3 cups granulated sugar
3 cups all-purpose flour
1 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon salt
3 eggs, beaten
3/4 cup vegetable oil
3 cups Drunken Fruit, drained
2 cups pecans, chopped
2 teaspoons vanilla extract
Confectioners' sugar

Cream sugar and eggs. Add oil and vanilla extract.

Preheat oven to 325 degrees F. Grease and flour a Bundt pan.

Sift dry ingredients together. Add to creamed mixture. Fold in Drunken Fruit and pecans. Bake for 1 hour and 20 minutes.

Cool at least 45 minutes before removing from pan. Invert pan and tap sharply.

Cool 15 minutes more. Dust with confectioners' sugar.

Best made while Supertramp's The Logical Song is playing in the background.

When I was young, it seemed that life was so wonderful,
a miracle, oh it was beautiful, magical.
And all the birds in the trees, well they'd be singing so happily,
joyfully, playfully watching me.
But then they send me away to teach me how to be sensible,
logical, responsible, practical.
And they showed me a world where I could be so dependable,
clinical, intellectual, cynical.

There are times when all the world's asleep,
the questions run too deep
for such a simple man.
Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned
I know it sounds absurd
but please tell me who I am.

Now watch what you say or they'll be calling you a radical,
liberal, fanatical, criminal.
Won't you sign up your name, we'd like to feel you're
acceptable, respecable, presentable, a vegtable!

At night, when all the world's asleep,
the questions run so deep
for such a simple man.
Won't you please, please tell me what we've learned
I know it sounds absurd
but please tell me who I am.

I've underlined and bolded the bits that apply to Mr. Beckjord. :D

RayG

[LAL]

"Chestnuts roasting on an open fire.........":v:

Need any matches, Ray?

[RayG]

Originally posted by LAL
"Chestnuts roasting on an open fire.........":v:

Need any matches, Ray?

:D

I've been roasting this turkey for YEARS.

RayG

[thaiboxerken]

I find it amusing that there are still idiots that believe that Bigfoot is anything other than a monster truck. This is especially true since the originator of the Bigfoot hoax admitted to how he did it. I have to wonder if Eric is an expert on unicorns as well.

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I find it amusing that there are still idiots that believe that Bigfoot is anything other than a monster truck. This is especially true since the originator of the Bigfoot hoax admitted to how he did it. I have to wonder if Eric is an expert on unicorns as well.

It is sad to see naive people who will believe ANY claim of a hoax, no matter how poorly substantiated it is. In fact, it is silly. eb

[erikbeckjord]

In the latest issue of the JSE he takes on Dr David Daegling of U FLA re his very bad book., and he points out correctly that the stock in trade of skeptics is not logic nor science by a tendancy to belittle and use ridicule instead. Sad.

No wonder my late buddy, Marcello Truzzi, dumped CSICOP
as useless debunkers. And he helped found CSICOP!

( yuck)

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by LAL
"Chestnuts roasting on an open fire.........":v:

Need any matches, Ray?

Gavel -- see http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by LAL
I myself and E.L. have plenty of experience, just not on this board. He tends to have his own quoting style elsewhere, too, which is quite readable, if a little unconventional.

I don't know how many boards you've posted on, but coming onto a new one is always like walking into a pack of hyenas. One or more of the regulars can't wait to tear a "newbie" to shreds. On a couple of occasions other posters have come to my defense; that's always appreciated if no longer necessary.

Reminds me of school, somehow.

Do you have some position here that gives you the right to expect a "certain level of competence in someone who has made it this far"? Only Beady has any competence here, and maybe Odd Emperor. But not LAL.

[RayG]

Just in case nobody noticed how deluded Mr. Beckjord really is:

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
Gavel -- see http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html

Awwww Cedrip....you still love me.

Of course, being Beckjork, his information is outdated, meaningless, or just downright WRONG!!! Kinda like the man himself.

Let's see... on that grovel.html page...he's woefully behind the times. I presently maintain NO webpages that pertain to him OR bf, nor have I for about four years now. NONE. Nil. Zip. Nada.

I've NEVER stated ANYWHERE that I'd like a baby bigfoot killed (or an adult one for that matter), but that's never stopped Cedrip from twisting things to suit his own agenda. For the record, I HAVE said that I don't think the mystery of bf will be solved unless a dead body is brought in, but I've never personally advocated killing one.

Cgocable hasn't been my ISP for about four years, so that email address hasn't been valid for a long time.

The address he lists is not only incorrect, I don't even live in Kingston anymore. (Cedrip has never been noted for catching on real quick though.) :D

His employment history is blatently incorrect, which isn't surprising since he knows very very little about me. He doesn't even know what I look like.

I WAS on his so-called bf list. What a joke!! He spent much more time denegrating others than he did discussing bf, but hey, he does that on his invision board too, so I guess the more things change, the more they stay the same. Instead of him answering any questions I had, he engaged in name-calling, temper tantrums, and finger-pointing. In short, the same behavior he exhibits here. :D

No email bombs were EVER sent by me and he knows it. I did RECEIVE enormous amounts of spam from Cedrip in the form of subscriptions to unwanted web materials. I initiated a formal complaint through my local police department and provided them with copies of all incoming materials, most of which included Cedrip's email address. (He's too stupid to realize his email address was showing up on them, but it didn't seem to deter him.)

He DID manage to get the Kingston Police to show up at my doorstep, on a false claim that I was maintaining pornographic material on the web. They apologized and I never saw them again, nor did I EVER see the RCMP. I DID get a call from Cedrip where he claimed to belong to the Royal Canadian Mountain Police!! Either he was too drunk or stupid to know he'd screwed up, or he really believed such an organization existed.

Hey, I DID suck off the research of John Green, after John gave me the go-ahead to create a website based on his definitive bigfoot book, Sasquatch: The Apes Among Us. I have the evidence in my possession to support that. (something Cedrip never seems to have -- evidence).

Hacking into his website??? Cedrip, yer a moron. The amount of information you know about the internet and computers is minimal at best. (His bloated, crayola-like, sad excuse for a website is a prime example.) To equate an ftp attempt to a hacking attack, is to equate reading a book from the library to stealing a book from the library. Or another analogy especially applicable to Cedrip would be, watching a movie at the movie theater vs attempting to sell bootlegged copies of copyrighted movies. Oh...I forgot...Cedrip was only 'trading' those movies...he just required a HUGE deposit!! (I've got the court documents to prove he was busted.)

Cedrip, I'm not sure why yer so infatuated with me. Have you run out of meds? You really need to seek some professional help.

RayG

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
RE MISSED END OF TRACKS.

COMMENT: NO, WE DID NOT.

Obviously, you think we are novices.



Obviously. If you are an expert in ichnology I'd like to see your proof. Animal tracks require the expertise of an ichnologists who needs to know engineering; that is how the tracks were made{what stride the animal was taking; i.e. running, jumping, walking , whether uphill or downhill, whether through deep snow or light snow, etc., etc.}, what substrate the animal tracks were made in { thus finding the weight of the creature}, the age of the tracks etc., the temperature at the time the tracks were laid down, etc.} Just show me your qualifications as an ichnologist and I'll be alot more willing to accept your bizarre guesses and odd opinions about other phenomena associated with this subject.




Not the case.

Fibbing? Have no time to waste on that. Stop insulting us.



So you say. And insult me in the process. I am unwilling to take the word of a stranger on the internet about his opinions about his suppossed experiences and interpretations of same.





Besides, it is now on video, and de camera, she do not lie, senor.


Video can be easily made to lie. That's a cinch even for a novice. Tracks in snow are the easist liars .
. Tracks in any substrate can be made to look as if they began anywhere and stopped anywhere. Also novices { non-ichnologists} are easily fooled by all tracks in all substrates.



Brian Smith video. Tracks in snow.

El Erik The Fake {?}

:D

[LAL]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I find it amusing that there are still idiots that believe that Bigfoot is anything other than a monster truck. This is especially true since the originator of the Bigfoot hoax admitted to how he did it.


Do you mean Ray Wallace or Bob Heironimus?

Neither originated any hoax and both have been thoroughly debunked.

I find it amusing there are still people who know so little about this they can make statements like yours above.


I have to wonder if Eric is an expert on unicorns as well.

Erik does not speak for serious researchers. He is, to put it mildly, a kook.

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
Just in case nobody noticed how deluded Mr. Beckjord really is:


Great post, Ray. I think I just saw Beckjord's credibility go flying out the door. No, my mistake. He didn't have any to begin with.........

[erikbeckjord]

Originally posted by Gorillagator


1) 90% of you have no cred. beause you are non-persons, No name, no address, no contact, no references. 2) Gavel is a sexual harasser and more info is on my site re him... http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html 3) You do not need a degree to follow tracks in snow. (I have two degrees, but these are not relevant). Babbling about needing a degree to follow tracks in snow or mud is just plain skeptic-idiocy.You really are in denial, aren;t you.? 4) remember, the food chain is this: MDs,PhDs, MAs, BAs,or BSes,with names,, then field researchers with names, then same with no names, then armchair researchers with names, then same with no names, then anonymous idiots in email and on forums. You know which you are. 5) If Lu-WOO WOO wants to relate to a sexual harasser, and mental patient on the loose, so much the worse for her. TSK!:p

[thaiboxerken]

Do you mean Ray Wallace or Bob Heironimus?

Neither originated any hoax and both have been thoroughly debunked.

Wallace. I doubt that the claim has been thoroughly debunked.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1) 90% of you have no cred. beause you are non-persons, No name, no address, no contact, no references. 2) Gavel is a sexual harasser and more info is on my site re him... http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html 3) You do not need a degree to follow tracks in snow. (I have two degrees, but these are not relevant). Babbling about needing a degree to follow tracks in snow or mud is just plain skeptic-idiocy.You really are in denial, aren;t you.? 4) remember, the food chain is this: MDs,PhDs, MAs, BAs,or BSes,with names,, then field researchers with names, then same with no names, then armchair researchers with names, then same with no names, then anonymous idiots in email and on forums. You know which you are. 5) If Lu-WOO WOO wants to relate to a sexual harasser, and mental patient on the loose, so much the worse for her. TSK!:p

Why is it that quite a lot of the major wackos have major issues as well?

[jmercer]

Originally posted by CFLarsen
Why is it that quite a lot of the major wackos have major issues as well?

Claus - isn't that a self-answering question?

[Hitch]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1) 90% of you have no cred. beause you are non-persons, No name, no address, no contact, no references. 2) Gavel is a sexual harasser and more info is on my site re him... http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html 3) You do not need a degree to follow tracks in snow. (I have two degrees, but these are not relevant). Babbling about needing a degree to follow tracks in snow or mud is just plain skeptic-idiocy.You really are in denial, aren;t you.? 4) remember, the food chain is this: MDs,PhDs, MAs, BAs,or BSes,with names,, then field researchers with names, then same with no names, then armchair researchers with names, then same with no names, then anonymous idiots in email and on forums. You know which you are. 5) If Lu-WOO WOO wants to relate to a sexual harasser, and mental patient on the loose, so much the worse for her. TSK!:p

What are you talking about? Who the hell are you?

[RayG]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
2) Gavel is a sexual harasser and more info is on my site re him... http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html :p

Cedrip, I've never sexually harassed yer inflatable girlfriend. :D

Yer blowing hot air from both ends again.

RayG

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by jmercer
Claus - isn't that a self-answering question?

Perhaps....

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
1) 90% of you have no cred. beause you are non-persons, No name, no address, no contact, no references. 2) Gavel is a sexual harasser and more info is on my site re him... http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/grovel.html 3) You do not need a degree to follow tracks in snow.


Nobody said such{ about degrees}. What was written was alluded to was that to interpret tracks in snow is an extremely difficult job, requiring expertise in several related fields. Degrees mean nothing in this context. But lack of knowledge leading to an errant interpretation is a serious mistake, compounded by one's preconcieved notions.I am in denial that you possess any useful info on Bigfoot.Babbling about another writer's supposed babbling sounds like an escape mechanism to me; once again you elude the questions most relevant to providing support for your extraordinary claims {which usually require extraordinary evidence, which you have yet t provide}.


(I have two degrees, but these are not relevant). Babbling about needing a degree to follow tracks in snow or mud


Which nobody has done until now with your post. I have a strong feeling {suddenly} that you couldn't interpret the meaning of your own tracks in the snow let alone a post written by most people in this forum. Get a grip on reality, before you slide into oblivion.

is just plain skeptic-idiocy.You really are in denial, aren;t you.? 4) remember, the food chain is this: MDs,PhDs, MAs, BAs,or BSes,with names,, then field researchers with names, then same with no names, then armchair researchers with names, then same with no names, then anonymous idiots in email and on forums. You know which you are. 5) If Lu-WOO WOO wants to relate to a sexual harasser, and mental patient on the loose, so much the worse for her.

I doubt she is related to you. An insult of that magnitude is certainly a TOS violation!


TSK!:p

[Dredred]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
I am here to save you from the error(s) of your ways.
;)

http://nemonet.nl/ba.jpg
I did some research and discovered the truth about Jon-Erik Beckjord (http://www.ufowatchdog.com/beckjord.html). He is in fact a shapeshifting alien. As the picture clearly shows, in the 1/100th second the picture was taken, part of him changed into an angry alien resting his head on his hand.
Beckjord is probably the one who dropped the bigfeet out of ufos (http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/bfufo.html). Why would he do that? Probably to save us from our erroneous skeptic ways, and convert us to Pareidoliism (http://skepdic.com/pareidol.html), a beautiful belief system which will liberate us from the truth forever. Or maybe his bigfoot-droppings are the first step in his plan for world domination. Or the first step in his plan to provide us all with convenient pets that change into a four-wheel drive truck (http://www.24hourscholar.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_6_23/ai_57533282) when we need one.

Niels

[LAL]

Originally posted by Dredred
http://nemonet.nl/ba.jpg
I did some research and discovered the truth about Jon-Erik Beckjord (http://www.ufowatchdog.com/beckjord.html). He is in fact a shapeshifting alien. As the picture clearly shows, in the 1/100th second the picture was taken, part of him changed into an angry alien resting his head on his hand.
Beckjord is probably the one who dropped the bigfeet out of ufos (http://www.beckjord.com/bigfoot/bfufo.html). Why would he do that? Probably to save us from our erroneous skeptic ways, and convert us to Pareidoliism (http://skepdic.com/pareidol.html), a beautiful belief system which will liberate us from the truth forever. Or maybe his bigfoot-droppings are the first step in his plan for world domination. Or the first step in his plan to provide us all with convenient pets that change into a four-wheel drive truck (http://www.24hourscholar.com/p/articles/mi_m2843/is_6_23/ai_57533282) when we need one.

Niels

Ah! That would explain why he's tried to sneak into BFF under different screennames. Invasion of the message-board snatchers!

[bruto]

Originally posted by jmercer
Oh, that's beautiful, Erik. Just fantastic. Let's just piss off all the innocent devout Muslims everywhere for the sake of annoying a few terrorists, shall we? Oh, and by the way... what are the passengers supposed to do? Scream "It's PORK!" as they throw it?

If I see a terrorist I'm going to toss something a lot more effective than dead pig meat at him.

Go get psychiatric help.

Maybe we could modify that old Archie Bunker gag about giving everybody a gun at the gate so they can unhijack a plane, and arm them all with pork-filled airguns instead. Of course this doesn't help much if the next hijackers are Cubans or Filipinos, but it would be relatively cheap, and at the end of each flight they could recycle the pork and put it in the meal trays for the next set of passengers.

[jmercer]

:D

Well, maybe we could arm the passengers with a variety of things... pork, "I Love Lucy" reruns, etc... and for those attacks by terrorist Quakers, perhaps copies of Playboy and Playgirl. ;)

[bruto]

I may have missed a few posts in this long and silly thread, but I'm curious now about the concept of "shape shifting aliens."

It's asserted that this shape shifting makes photography difficult, because they shift at a rate of 1/ 10,000 of a second. Is that continuous, or do they shift in intervals? I would have thought that anything either moving or flickering that fast would be imperceptible to the naked eye, and come out better on photographs if done right, which raises the question " how do the people who take those fuzzy pictures know where to aim the camera?" and why don't the bigfoot hunters use better equipment? A good camera with high speed film and a really powerful electronic flash should give better pictures, since the duration of the flash is pretty close to that of the bigfoot itself.

I'm trying (just this once, mind you) not to be silly or ridiculous here. Sasquatches have been "out there" for a long time according to the believers. They're said to be big and hairy, substantial enough to leave footprints, and visib le to at least the occasional naked eye, and if you ever got a clear photograph of one you'd be rich and famous for the rest of your life. Considering how many people seem to believe in sasquatches, and how many are out there looking for them, and how seriously they take this, I really would like to know why the people doing this research are so technically inept.

Let's assume for the moment that Bigfoot is real. I suggest that those who advocate him be disqualified not for credulousness but incompetence.

[varwoche]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
90% of you have no cred. beause you are non-persons, No name, no address, no contact, no references Close, but I'll still give you full credit. Let me explain:

You and I are the only actual humans posting to this forum. These other personnas are merely bots that I wrote. (Admitted, I'm not the world's greatest programmer.) The same is true throughout the internet -- there's only about 17 of us.

Later I'll explain where all the bigfeet went. (As a preface, think space aliens and large tweezers.)

[Hitch]

"I am not a number! I am a free man!"

[Bronze Dog]

Looks like I missed out on a lot of fun. Oh well. I got a lot of laughs catching up.

[aggle-rithm]

Originally posted by Hitch
"I am not a number! I am a free man!"

"Well, I'm a man, anyway."

[aggle-rithm]

Originally posted by erikbeckjord
RE MISSED END OF TRACKS.

COMMENT: NO, WE DID NOT.

Obviously, you think we are novices.

Not the case.

Fibbing? Have no time to waste on that. Stop insulting us.

Besides, it is now on video, and de camera, she do not lie, senor.

Brian Smith video. Tracks in snow.

El Erik

:D

Um... to whom are you speaking...?

{Backs away slowly}

[Dredred]

If he would upload the tracks-video to his website, i'm sure we could provide him with some more probable explanations than shapeshifting alien bigfoots shifting in and out of our dimension. For example:
http://skepdic.com/graphics/bigfoothoax.jpg
But i doubt he'll do that because he likes to believe all that sci fi stuff. It feels so good to believe. And it's a nice ego-boost when you believe you know the truth and the rest doesn't. But it's hard to keep believing all that when everyone else thinks you're an idiot. That's probably why he's here: to convince us he's not an idiot, so he can keep on believing.

[LAL]

Originally posted by bruto
Considering how many people seem to believe in sasquatches, and how many are out there looking for them, and how seriously they take this, I really would like to know why the people doing this research are so technically inept.

Let's assume for the moment that Bigfoot is real. I suggest that those who advocate him be disqualified not for credulousness but incompetence.

It's being worked on. One researcher has been monitoring a particular area for years. He has something inconclusive on film, with, perhaps, something better to come. He has a great deal of experience and expertise.

Considering there has never been a full scale scientific investigation, the effort has pretty much been up to amateurs working on their own time and money. The creatures are largely nocturnal, elusive and potentially very dangerous. They don't seem to follow any set pattern in their foraging and roam over a huge territory. Bryne estimated they can cover 25 miles in a night. Where would you set up the camera traps?

I don't know that anyone's been inept or incompetant (and much evidence has been gathered). "Unlucky" might be a better word.

Dr. Meldrum applied for a grant for field work on them in the Southern Rockies last year. Suppose he got it?

[LAL]

Originally posted by Dredred
If he would upload the tracks-video to his website, i'm sure we could provide him with some more probable explanations than shapeshifting alien bigfoots shifting in and out of our dimension. For example:
http://skepdic.com/graphics/bigfoothoax.jpg


Cute pic. Did you notice the carved feet don't match any known trackway and the toes don't move? No midtarsal bend, either. Dermal ridges? Sweat pores? Healed scars? Forget it.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by LAL
Cute pic. Did you notice the carved feet don't match any known trackway and the toes don't move? No midtarsal bend, either. Dermal ridges? Sweat pores? Healed scars? Forget it.

This pic probably doesn't show the best bigfootfeet ever made. But these are the ones that started the whole myth, according to http://skepdic.com/bigfoot.html.
You've got pics of bigfoot footprints showing sweat pores, healed scars etc.? Interesting. Please share. However, don't you think even that could be faked?

[RayG]

Has Erik even considered the amount of energy required for a creature of the supposed size of bigfoot to be able to change its entire cell structure at the molecular level?

I'm guessing after a single shape-shifting episode, his shape-shifting days would be over, permanently.

RayG

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by RayG
Has Erik even considered the amount of energy required for a creature of the supposed size of bigfoot to be able to change its entire cell structure at the molecular level?

I'm guessing after a single shape-shifting episode, his shape-shifting days would be over, permanently.

RayG
I asked him about that, but he essentially just laughed at me.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Dredred
This pic probably doesn't show the best bigfootfeet ever made. But these are the ones that started the whole myth, according to http://skepdic.com/bigfoot.html.

This?


"Ray had a friend carve him 16-inch-long feet that he could strap on and make prints with. Wallace owned a construction company that built logging roads at the time and he set the prints around one of his bulldozers in Humboldt County. Jerry Crew, a bulldozer operator, reported the prints and The Humboldt Times ran a front-page story about “Bigfoot.� The legend was born."

There were incidents long before Wallace, who couldn't be questioned about the exact location of the 1958 tracks (which he wouldn't have known) for the rather good reason he was dead when his family came out with this remarkable information. He was usually off getting new contracts for the company; that was his job.

Later, he had a lively souvenier business going with photos of his wife in a gorilla suit.

http://www.bigfootresearch.org/Bigfoot_ray%20wallace.htm

Tracks are still being found, of course.

http://www.bfro.net/news/wallace.asp#commentary

John Green was on to him for years:

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/wallace.html

Funny how the media made a big deal out of the Wallace family but somehow failed to report the rebuttals.


You've got pics of bigfoot footprints showing sweat pores, healed scars etc.? Interesting. Please share. However, don't you think even that could be faked?

Nope. Dr. White (the Dr. Tim White of Berkeley) thought the pores could be air bubbles, but experimentation showed they're circular while sweat pores are irregular in shape.

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/dermal.html

Thousands of tracks have been found in remote areas. Who would bother to fake sweat pores on prints that stand almost no chance of ever being seen?

There's a good arial view of the Powder Mountain tracks in Sasquatch/Bigfoot: The Search For North America's Incredible Creature by Don Hunter with René Dahinden. It gives a good idea of how remote and how many. They were at 4800' and ran for five miles. The snow looks absolutely pristine except for the tracks.


"Now, Bigfoot advocates are increasingly turning to forensic evidence to prove the existence of the giant creature.

Investigator Jimmy Chilcutt of the Conroe Police Department in Texas, who specializes in finger- and footprints, has analyzed the more than 150 casts of Bigfoot prints that Meldrum, the Idaho State professor, keeps in a laboratory.

Chilcutt says one footprint found in 1987 in Walla Walla in Washington State has convinced him that Bigfoot is real.

"The ridge flow pattern and the texture was completely different from anything I've ever seen," he said. "It certainly wasn't human, and of no known primate that I've examined. The print ridges flowed lengthwise along the foot, unlike human prints, which flow across. The texture of the ridges was about twice the thickness of a human, which indicated that this animal has a real thick skin."

Meldrum, meanwhile, says a 400-pound (180-kilogram) block of plaster known as the Skookum Cast provides further evidence of Bigfoot's existence. The cast was made in September 2000 from an impression of a large animal that had apparently lain down on its side to retrieve some fruit next to a mud hole in the Gifford Pinchot National Forest in Washington State.

Meldrum says the cast contains recognizable impressions of a forearm, a thigh, buttocks, an Achilles tendon and heel. "It's 40 to 50 percent bigger than a normal human," he said. "The anatomy doesn't jive with any known animal."

A few academics believe Meldrum could be right.

Renowned chimpanzee researcher Jane Goodall last year surprised an interviewer from National Public Radio when she said she was sure that large, undiscovered primates, such as the Yeti or Sasquatch, exist."

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2003/10/1023_031023_bigfoot_2.html

Chilcutt points out what he looks for on the scars on Sasquatch: Legend Meets Science, which was shown on the Discovery Channel and is available on tape and DVD.

He stakes his reputation on these animals being real, on camera.

You might want to check out the thread "Bigfoot Follies" on this forum. I posted myself silly over there.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by LAL
Cute pic. Did you notice the carved feet don't match any known trackway and the toes don't move? No midtarsal bend, either. Dermal ridges? Sweat pores? Healed scars? Forget it.

BTW, Lal, this was your reaction to my suggestion to Beckjord that he shares his video of bigfoot tracks in the snow, so that we can provide more probable explanations. Do you really think sweat pores or healed scars should be visible in tracks in the snow?

[Dredred]

Originally posted by LAL
Thousands of tracks have been found in remote areas. Who would bother to fake sweat pores on prints that stand almost no chance of ever being seen?

I agree that sounds a little far fetched. I'm not going to read a lot about this so i am not and will not be informed enough to agree or disagree with you. I can understand your fascination, but i don't share it. I think, if bigfeet are real, somebody will find (a dead) one one day, i'll just wait it out. I've only involved myself in this discussion because i AM fascinated by this Beckjord fellow. I've never encountered anyone so delusional, trying to convert others to his delusional world view. A few weeks ago i had an idea to write a story about a paranoid delusional bigfoot hunter, and now i've discovered Beckjord, who is exactly the kind of lunatic i had in mind. But his website provided me with insanity i could have never come up with myself.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Dredred
BTW, Lal, this was your reaction to my suggestion to Beckjord that he shares his video of bigfoot tracks in the snow, so that we can provide more probable explanations. Do you really think sweat pores or healed scars should be visible in tracks in the snow?

I caught the sarcasm, but the tracks Wallace was supposed to have faked weren't in snow. I don't consider Wallace's fake feet a more probable explanation for much of anything.

The Bossburg tracks were in snow. Want a video of those? How about a still of some from California this year?

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/JimKarl.htm

Somewhere there should be film of a double trackway from Skamania County, Washington, from 1969. Those tracks went for 7 miles and were followed by people I knew and a camera crew from the Columbian. I saw this in a theater in Portland and about fell out of my seat when I realized I was looking at Ed McClarny explaining the find in the movie. I asked him about it years later. He was a county commissioner by then.

There's a report in the BFRO database of five DNR workers seeing a pair of Sasquatches cross a meadow in Skamania County. I've often wondered if it could have been the same ones.

And Skookum Meadows (guess what a "Skookum" is) is in the Gifford Pinchot in Skamania County. The Skookum Cast came from there.

Caves on Mt. St. Helens, also in Skamania County, are known as Ape Caves. There's an Ape Canyon as well.

Skamania County passed the first legislation in this country regarding their protection (in an attempt to protect the hunters from each other).

Almost everyone I knew in Stevenson (who would talk about it) knew someone who'd seen one. I met someone from Stevenson at a conference in W.V. this year who told me the pharmacist, who was a bit sceptical of his uncle's sighting, saw one near Rock Creek with his daughter in the car. Rock Creek came quite near to where I lived on 80 forested acres northwest of town.

This has been exciting stuff to me for a very long time.

[LAL]

Originally posted by Dredred
I agree that sounds a little far fetched. I'm not going to read a lot about this so i am not and will not be informed enough to agree or disagree with you. I can understand your fascination, but i don't share it. I think, if bigfeet are real, somebody will find (a dead) one one day, i'll just wait it out. I've only involved myself in this discussion because i AM fascinated by this Beckjord fellow. I've never encountered anyone so delusional, trying to convert others to his delusional world view. A few weeks ago i had an idea to write a story about a paranoid delusional bigfoot hunter, and now i've discovered Beckjord, who is exactly the kind of lunatic i had in mind. But his website provided me with insanity i could have never come up with myself.


Just do a bio on Beckjord. There's no need to get fictional.

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
Has Erik even considered the amount of energy required for a creature of the supposed size of bigfoot to be able to change its entire cell structure at the molecular level?

I'm guessing after a single shape-shifting episode, his shape-shifting days would be over, permanently.

RayG

This shapeshifter will self-destruct in five minutes.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by LAL

http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/JimKarl.htm


This pic from your link:
http://www.bigfootencounters.com/images/Jims_track1.jpg

I don't find it very convincing. How do you know the footseps aren't that big beacause the surrounding snow melted? The snow was already melting, as the website states, and snow surrounding a footstep will melt faster because it's surrounded by less snow to keep it cool than snow not surrounding a footstep.
Also, 'Jim's boot imprints', were clearly more recent thus less melted, and you can see he took tiny baby steps, probably to make the steps in the other track appear bigger.

The tracks in Beckjord's video supposedly started and ended at places in the middle of nowhere, which is supposed to indicate that the bigfoot shifted in and out of this dimension. I'd like to see his video of this because it seems highly unlikely and there's probably a more logical explanation.

Thanks for your idea of writing Beckjard's bio. It's a great idea. I might just do that. But ofcourse, the advantage of fiction is you don't have to do that much research.

[RayG]

Originally posted by LAL

"The ridge flow pattern and the texture was completely different from anything I've ever seen," he said. "It certainly wasn't human, and of no known primate that I've examined. The print ridges flowed lengthwise along the foot, unlike human prints, which flow across. The texture of the ridges was about twice the thickness of a human, which indicated that this animal has a real thick skin."

Keep in mind dermal evidence http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=11363&st=0&hl= isn't as strong as once thought.

Meldrum, meanwhile, says a 400-pound (180-kilogram) block of plaster known as the Skookum Cast provides further evidence of Bigfoot's existence.

This is Meldrum's actual statement from the BFRO website:

http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/BODYCAST/ISU_press_rel_cast.asp

“While not definitively proving the existence of a species of North American ape, the cast constitutes significant and compelling new evidence that will hopefully stimulate further serious research and investigation into the presence of these primates in the Northwest mountains and elsewhere,�

A few academics believe Meldrum could be right.

He might also be wrong, as he was when he claimed the snow walker video ( http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/films/snowwalker.htm ), now generally regarded as a hoax, was compelling evidence.

Renowned chimpanzee researcher Jane Goodall last year surprised an interviewer from National Public Radio when she said she was sure that large, undiscovered primates, such as the Yeti or Sasquatch, exist."

But her wishes, desires, or beliefs do not make it so, that will require definitive evidence.

RayG

[RayG]

Originally posted by Dredred

Thanks for your idea of writing Beckjard's bio. It's a great idea. I might just do that.

Make sure you send Beckjord your name, address, and phone number. Be prepared for lots of crank calls and harassment at home and work. The occasional threatening letter too. :D

RayG

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
Keep in mind dermal evidence http://www.bigfootforums.com/index.php?showtopic=11363&st=0&hl= isn't as strong as once thought.


You noticed I posted on that thread, didn't you? I wanted clarification and got it.
The original Onion Mountain cast findings are on the Bellingham conference thread. Meldrum commended the work.

It's quite clear this refers to one cast and a copy at that. The artifact had to do with the substrate; it doesn't happen on all of them.

"I have found that under certain conditions cement casts can spontainously develop surface ridges that have a strong resemblance to what are being claimed as dermal ridges, at least on one cast known as the "Onion Mountain" cast made by John Green in August of 1967. Numerous pieces of evidence come together to suggest that the ridges seen on Green's Onion Mountain cast are ridge artifacts and not an accurate representation of dermal ridges pressed into the soil by a primate foot."

This does not mean all dermal ridges are casting artifacts.




This is Meldrum's actual statement from the BFRO website:

http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/BODYCAST/ISU_press_rel_cast.asp

[b]“While not definitively proving the existence of a species of North American ape, the cast constitutes significant and compelling new evidence that will hopefully stimulate further serious research and investigation into the presence of these primates in the Northwest mountains and elsewhere,�


The language of science is cautious. New evidence could show it was Erik Beckjord in an ape butt.


He might also be wrong, as he was when he claimed the snow walker video ( http://www.n2.net/prey/bigfoot/films/snowwalker.htm ), now generally regarded as a hoax, was compelling evidence.


Meldrum exposed that hoax.

" "The Snow Walker Footage
AVI clip (2.97MB)
Perhaps the most elaborate hoax footage ever produced, it was created by an independent production company developing a TV program called "Paranormal Borderline" for UPN (Paramount).

The footage was greatly debated after its release, but was eventually debunked by the BFRO's Dr. Jeff Meldrum.

There are some interesting aspects to this footage. It was too expensive to create a convincing, intricate costume, so the hoaxers compensated in two ways, both of which provided clues that eventually unravelled the hoax.

The shots are brief, blurry, and distant, thus precluding any detailed images of the figure and eliminating the need for an intricate costume. The lack of image quality is cleverly distracted by the context of the footage.
The hoaxers went to extraordinary lengths to make the footage appear to be part of a vacation video of a European couple mountaineering in the Himalayas. In reality it was staged somewhere near Mammoth Mountain, California.
These compensations led to some obvious questions. With the figure crossing an open snow field likely in view for at least a minute, even the most amateur videographer would have shot more tape, and likely would have zoomed in all the way for the better part of the tape. Why then were there only a few seconds of shakey wide-angle shots when the figure was at it closest point?

The context of the footage raised immediate questions about the identify of the European couple. UPN would only say that an American man provided the footage, that he wanted people to see it, but that he wouldn't speak to any investigators or answer any questions about the European couple. This was suspiciously similar to the "alien autopsy" video scenario, where the shadowy source of the footage refused to come forward to authenticate it in any way. In the case of the Snow Walker footage, the producers of Paranormal Borderline acted suspiciously by steering the investigation away from the source.

Dr. Meldrum, who at first tentatively suggested the footage might be authentic, became increasingly suspicious of the dodgey behavior of the show's producers as he tried to investigate the matter further. He pursued it with UPN for over a year. Eventually, after Paranormal Borderline was cancelled, the producers finally outright admitted the hoax, and explained how it was done.

In spite of all this, they did manage to eek out one more profitable use out of the footage when it was used in the Fox TV special "World's Greatest Hoaxes"."

http://www.bfro.net/REF/bfmedia.asp

But her wishes, desires, or beliefs do not make it so, that will require definitive evidence.

RayG
Since I was accused of "name-dropping" and unsubstantiated quotes so many times on the other thread, I thought I would take the opportunity to show that even a national pop-sci mag said Jane Goodall said exactly what she said.

I'm sure everyone considers NG credible and has forgotten the "archaeoraptor" incident.

[bruto]

Originally posted by LAL
It's being worked on. One researcher has been monitoring a particular area for years. He has something inconclusive on film, with, perhaps, something better to come. He has a great deal of experience and expertise.

Considering there has never been a full scale scientific investigation, the effort has pretty much been up to amateurs working on their own time and money. The creatures are largely nocturnal, elusive and potentially very dangerous. They don't seem to follow any set pattern in their foraging and roam over a huge territory. Bryne estimated they can cover 25 miles in a night. Where would you set up the camera traps?

I don't know that anyone's been inept or incompetant (and much evidence has been gathered). "Unlucky" might be a better word.

Dr. Meldrum applied for a grant for field work on them in the Southern Rockies last year. Suppose he got it?

Sorry, I still think that if there are sasquatches out there and nobody has managed to get a decent picture, a clear footprint cast that a real scientist won't laugh at, a body, a bone, a piece of fur that can be forensically examined, etc. etc. then they're not doing a very good job. We all know that if a really decent piece of evidence were to appear, scientists, skeptics, and everyone else would welcome it. If I were a serious seeker of sasquatches and the people doing the hunting couldn't do any better than they have so far, and kept coming up with dog-ate-my-homework level excuses and quack theories about shapeshifting aliens to explain why they went out in the woods with a crappy camera and didn't use it right, I wouldn't give them a grant either!

I'd really like to find out that these guys are real, but given the level of the evidence there aren't a lot of reasonable choices left: either they aren't there or they aren't being well sought.

[LAL]

Originally posted by bruto
Sorry, I still think that if there are sasquatches out there and nobody has managed to get a decent picture, a clear footprint cast that a real scientist won't laugh at, a body, a bone, a piece of fur that can be forensically examined, etc. etc. then they're not doing a very good job. We all know that if a really decent piece of evidence were to appear, scientists, skeptics, and everyone else would welcome it. If I were a serious seeker of sasquatches and the people doing the hunting couldn't do any better than they have so far, and kept coming up with dog-ate-my-homework level excuses and quack theories about shapeshifting aliens to explain why they went out in the woods with a crappy camera and didn't use it right, I wouldn't give them a grant either!

I'd really like to find out that these guys are real, but given the level of the evidence there aren't a lot of reasonable choices left: either they aren't there or they aren't being well sought.

I think you might want to do a little research on just how much work has been done on this. There are many "clear" casts and some "real" scientists have not laughed at them. 25 hair samples have been identified as "unknown animal" or "unknown primate". I wouldn't be so opinionated prior to checking it out, if I were you.
Dahinden lost his marriage and family in his efforts on this. Others have been ridiculed and had their pretty darn conclusive evidence dismissed, sometimes by other researchers.

Some recommended reading and viewing (except for the part of Thom Powell's book Erik Beckjord endorses):

http://www.bfro.net/merch/catalog3.asp

Especially read Dr. Krantz, who was a "real" scientist. Remember him from the fight over Kennewick Man?
Here's a sample:

"Increasing body size has an interesting effect on the strength of anatomical structures. The pulling power of muscles and the breaking strength of tendons and ligaments are directly proportional to their cross-sectional areas. Yet their weight, like that of the whole body, increases with volume. Cross-sectional areas increase with the square of a linear dimension, while weight increases with the cube. Thus if a man were doubled in height, keeping all proportions the same, his muscles and supporting tissues would be four times as strong, but his weight would become eight times greater. In relation to the weight he would have to maneuver, his strength would be cut in half. Some changes in body design, especially in lever lengths, would be desirable for such an enlarged man to move about like other people. The large size indicated for sasquatch poses the same kind of problem.

The first peculiarity in these giant footprints is that they are quite flat. The instep or longitudinal arch of the foot is not there. In man this arch is maintained by ligaments and by the muscular pull on tendons. Given 500 pounds or more of body weight, these structures would not have sufficient increased strength and the arch would have to flatten. While adult sasquatch prints are flat, a number of supposed young ones show some arching. It is an interesting question whether the feet flatten with maturity just because of the weight, or if there are genetic mechanisms which would lead to a flat foot regardless of usage. If a number of people were making fake bigfoot prints, it might be expected that many of them would not have thought about this characteristic and would have included arches comparable to their own. None of the evidence I have examined shows a normal human arch."

http://www.rfthomas.clara.net/papers/anatomy.html

Beckjord does not qualify as a reseacher except in his own deluded mind. No respectable researcher will have anything to do with him. He's permanently banned from BFF. All he does is disrupt the board.

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
Make sure you send Beckjord your name, address, and phone number. Be prepared for lots of crank calls and harassment at home and work. The occasional threatening letter too. :D

RayG

Is that all?

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG


This is Meldrum's actual statement from the BFRO website:

http://www.bfro.net/NEWS/BODYCAST/ISU_press_rel_cast.asp


This seems to be the original story:

http://www.worldnewsstand.net/today/specialreport/12-5.htm

Gawd! Student drawing?

Have you seen LMS? He's less tentative there, and Dr. Daris Swindler is very clear in his statement.

[RayG]

Originally posted by LAL

It's quite clear this refers to one cast and a copy at that. The artifact had to do with the substrate; it doesn't happen on all of them.

I wasn't trying to imply otherwise, just pointing out that claims of dermal ridges in casts might not actually BE dermal ridges. The original poster himself stated:

" Very few Sasquatch footprint casts contain features that are considered to be dermal ridges."

To already start with a small number of casts, and then to point out the possibility of contamination (for lack of a better word) depending on the methods and materials used, does not bode well for the authenticity of casts with dermal ridges.

This does not mean all dermal ridges are casting artifacts.

No, but investigators should be aware that a possible problem exists.

Meldrum exposed that hoax.

I don't deny that, however, he started out by calling the footage "compelling". Does that mean I'm suggesting the Skookum cast is a hoax? Not at all, but Meldrum is only human, and humans have been known to make mistakes. Is it possible that the print was made by a sasquatch? I guess so, but I don't see any convincing evidence to confirm that hypothesis.

Dr. Meldrum, who at first tentatively suggested the footage might be authentic...

The TV show I just recently watched had Meldrum himself looking at the footage and calling it "compelling". He has used the same word to describe the Skookum cast.

Since I was accused of "name-dropping" and unsubstantiated quotes so many times on the other thread, I thought I would take the opportunity to show that even a national pop-sci mag said Jane Goodall said exactly what she said.

Which again, seems to be 'name-dropping', or at the very least an appeal to authority.

RayG

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by LAL
Ah! That would explain why he's tried to sneak into BFF under different screennames. Invasion of the message-board snatchers!



Or perhaps he is writing a prequel to the series if movies about "Predator" Not exactly a shape-shifter per se, but a creature who can vanish and rematerialize before one's very eyes. This procedure is also relevant to his posts.

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by LAL
Cute pic. Did you notice the carved feet don't match any known trackway and the toes don't move? No midtarsal bend, either. Dermal ridges? Sweat pores? Healed scars? Forget it.


Not only that LAL, but fake prints are easily differentiated from a real animals tracks by an expert ichnologist, because fake tracks generally are stomped into the snow and leave an uplifted ridge around the track's perimeter, whereas normal walking or even running do not. Besides how is this dude going to make steps five feet apart unless he is more than seven to eight feet tall?

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
Not only that LAL, but fake prints are easily differentiated from a real animals tracks by an expert ichnologist, because fake tracks generally are stomped into the snow and leave an uplifted ridge around the track's perimeter, whereas normal walking or even running do not. Besides how is this dude going to make steps five feet apart unless he is more than seven to eight feet tall?


Also the man needs to carry a couple of hundred pounds on his back to fool an expert in foot prints no matter the substrate they might be left in. Tracks of a seven or eight hundred pound critter are tough to fake by a two hundred pound man

[aggle-rithm]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
Also the man needs to carry a couple of hundred pounds on his back to fool an expert in foot prints no matter the substrate they might be left in.

Not if the expert is sufficiently credulous.

[Gorillagator]

Originally posted by aggle-rithm
Not if the expert is sufficiently credulous.


Isn't that an oxymoronic phrase? <g>

[Ashles]

Originally posted by Gorillagator
Isn't that an oxymoronic phrase? <g>
Not necessarily - you could be an expert in self delusion and believing anything exciting just for the sake of it.
That could be your real talent in life.

*waves at erikbeckjord*

[I'll_buy_that]

first, let me state that I love reading this thread. I find it really really amusing. I hate to see it end; where is Erik lately?

LAL, I thought you were one voice of reason here until your post
on page 5...

Do you mean Ray Wallace or Bob Heironimus?

Neither originated any hoax and both have been thoroughly debunked.

I find it amusing there are still people who know so little about this they can make statements like yours above.


then the one on page 6...

Originally posted by LAL
It's being worked on. One researcher has been monitoring a particular area for years. He has something inconclusive on film, with, perhaps, something better to come. He has a great deal of experience and expertise.

Considering there has never been a full scale scientific investigation, the effort has pretty much been up to amateurs working on their own time and money. The creatures are largely nocturnal, elusive and potentially very dangerous. They don't seem to follow any set pattern in their foraging and roam over a huge territory. Bryne estimated they can cover 25 miles in a night. Where would you set up the camera traps?

I don't know that anyone's been inept or incompetant (and much evidence has been gathered). "Unlucky" might be a better word.

Dr. Meldrum applied for a grant for field work on them in the Southern Rockies last year. Suppose he got it?


do you know why people haven't heard the debunking of Wallace? it is because most reasonable people do not beieve in bigfoot, yeti, sasquatch, yoda, or the Easter Bunny. They wouldn't spend time finding out about Wallace's claim or his debunking.

Keep up the good work LAL and Erik, I like a good read

:D

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by I'll_buy_that
first, let me state that I love reading this thread. I find it really really amusing. I hate to see it end; where is Erik lately?
He was suspended (again), last I heard. They're debating whether or not to upgrade that to banning.

[I'll_buy_that]

Oh, that would be disappointing. I like good fodder :)

by the way, how could I have been so skeptical when there are good clear photos of yeti....

http://www.bfro.net/LMS/images/munns_clear.jpg

[aggle-rithm]

Originally posted by I'll_buy_that
Oh, that would be disappointing. I like good fodder :)

by the way, how could I have been so skeptical when there are good clear photos of yeti....

http://www.bfro.net/LMS/images/munns_clear.jpg

Wow... can they whip up a "life-size" statue of the Tooth Fairy?

I always wondered if she was normal sized, or like Tinkerbell.

[Bronze Dog]

Originally posted by aggle-rithm
Wow... can they whip up a "life-size" statue of the Tooth Fairy?

I always wondered if she was normal sized, or like Tinkerbell.
Clearly she's quite small. Otherwise, she'd be easy to photograph and wouldn't show up as rods or orbs.

[LAL]

Originally posted by RayG
I wasn't trying to imply otherwise, just pointing out that claims of dermal ridges in casts might not actually BE dermal ridges. The original poster himself stated:

" Very few Sasquatch footprint casts contain features that are considered to be dermal ridges."

To already start with a small number of casts, and then to point out the possibility of contamination (for lack of a better word) depending on the methods and materials used, does not bode well for the authenticity of casts with dermal ridges.


Somehow, I think Chilcutt would have been alert to this possibility. He went in as a sceptic.

He tried to duplicate ridges and failed. He was very thorough.





No, but investigators should be aware that a possible problem exists.


Meldrum is, and it said on the conference thread they were going to inform Chilcutt.



I don't deny that, however, he started out by calling the footage "compelling".


I didn't see the show. Was it the one NG did? I suspect he's more careful now. Note my sig line. I e-mailed him about being shown in front of a Snow Walker still, and, modest guy that he is, he didn't even mention who exposed the hoax in his reply.




Does that mean I'm suggesting the Skookum cast is a hoax? Not at all, but Meldrum is only human, and humans have been known to make mistakes. Is it possible that the print was made by a sasquatch? I guess so, but I don't see any convincing evidence to confirm that hypothesis.


One way that conclusion was reached was by ruling out other possibilities, including imprints of several animals combining to appear to be an imprint of a hominid. Did you see LMS? Swindler and Sarmiento were quite clearly convinced.






The TV show I just recently watched had Meldrum himself looking at the footage and calling it "compelling". He has used the same word to describe the Skookum cast.




What show was that on? Did they also say he exposed the hoax or were they trying to insinuate it's all a hoax and paint Meldrum as a gullible fool?




Which again, seems to be 'name-dropping', or at the very least an appeal to authority.

RayG

Check the other thread. I even posted information on what qualifies as appeal to authority.
I named several people, including Dr. Swindler, who is a giant in his field, with good credentials in primatology who are taking this seriously.

"2003 International Bigfoot Symposium Keynote Address
By John Green

Most of you will have noticed that I am not Jane Goodall, and you may well be wondering why I have been asked to fill her spot at this symposium. Well, you are missing the obvious. We have the same initials.

That Dr. Goodall has been unable to keep her commitment to speak here is most unfortunate. Her presence might well have focused the attention of the media on the fact, which they have so far largely succeeded in ignoring, that scientists of world-wide reputation are starting to take a serious look at the evidence that humans are not the only bipedal primates on Earth.

That, in my opinion, is the current development that holds the greatest promise for the future of Bigfoot/sasquatch investigation...

It is by no means just Jane Goodall.

In recent years I have had considerable contact with:

George Schaller, director of science for the Wildlife Conservation Society
Esteban Sarmiento, primate specialist at the American Museum of Natural History
Russel Mittermeier, president of Conservation International and chairman of the world-wide Primate Specialist Group
Daris Swindler, author of the atlas of comparative anatomy of man and chimpanzee.
All but Dr. Mittermeier have spent time examining the Skookum cast.

All of them are on our side.

They have all stated, all but one of them publicly, that the evidence already accumulated establishes the case for full scientific participation in getting to the bottom of this matter. Dr. Mittermeier told me that he has long considered taking up the hunt himself--and he told Jeff Meldrum that he would not fear being criticized for doing so, because he and his team have already discovered several other unknown primates.

Dr. Swindler, whom I have known for more than 30 years, has appeared in documentaries on this subject in the past as the obligatory skeptical scientist. Now, after careful examination of the best heel print in the Skookum cast, he has expressed the conviction that it is the heel print of a large unknown primate - and he would be here with us today if his health permitted.

With this high-profile support, and with the increasing number of less eminent but fully-qualified zoologists and physical anthropologists who are already participating at their own expense, the time may well be near when scientific institutions with resources and funding will join us in our search."

http://www.bigfootproject.org/articles/green_keynote.html

One of the posters on the Bigfoot Follies thread seemed to be claiming that scientists taking this seriously have lost all credibility and are "woos" . Another seemed more interested in accusing me of "name dropping" than in checking out what they actually had to say.

[LAL]

Originally posted by aggle-rithm
Wow... can they whip up a "life-size" statue of the Tooth Fairy?



Is she known from several jawbones and a thousand teeth?

[LAL]

Originally posted by I'll_buy_that
first, let me state that I love reading this thread. I find it really really amusing. I hate to see it end; where is Erik lately?

LAL, I thought you were one voice of reason here until your post
on page 5...



then the one on page 6...


What do you find wrong with those posts?



do you know why people haven't heard the debunking of Wallace? it is because most reasonable people do not beieve in bigfoot, yeti, sasquatch, yoda, or the Easter Bunny. They wouldn't spend time finding out about Wallace's claim or his debunking.

Keep up the good work LAL and Erik, I like a good read

:D

I thought it was because it wasn't on the six o'clock news. One has to have at least some interest in the subject to look for rebuttals. It probably took me twenty minutes to find one on the Internet after the Wallace story broke.

The reasonable people I know are willing to accept Sasquatches may exist and that they just don't know enough about it. I've had quite a few requests for more information.

The only person in real life I haven't been able to sway on this is a Fundamentalist Christian who believes in Noah's Ark, but even he had some moments of "There may be something to this" after seeing LMS on the Discovery Channel. Now he's back to scoffing at me for believing in a "fairy tale". 'Scuse me.......$$#@$$%^&**^%$$ fairy tale..

Many people are just not aware there have been many thousands of tracks found in this country and Canada, not just a few in California. (Incidently, Wallace complained he was losing money on the job in 1958 because workmen were leaving because the of the track events.) They've never heard of the Skookum Cast, or seen comparison photos of the Patterson creature and Bob Hieronimus in a Morris suit. Many have never seen the PGF, let alone any of the others. They don't know there are well over 3500 documented reports. They tend to get a very skewed view from the media.

The Weekly World News doesn't help matters any.