Dubious Data Awards - 2002

[Supercharts]

Every now and then I check out STATS. This is a great site for taking apart news articles that misuse statistics.

Here are this years awards:
http://www.stats.org/statswork/awards.html

[hammegk]

A least none of the 469,000 pretend to be atheists! :D

[BillyJoe]

:confused:

[rwald]

And we know that the 469,000 African-American students in college aren't atheists because...

[BillyJoe]

.....hammegk says so.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by rwald
And we know that the 469,000 African-American students in college aren't atheists because...

... who knows how many posters here have said so and provided studies showing jail inmates are not atheists.

How quickly some forget. ;)

Originally posted by hammegk


... who knows how many posters here have said so and provided studies showing jail inmates are not atheists.

How quickly some forget. ;)

Let's see... "somebody here made this kind of error before, therefore I can do the same." What a premise for reason! What a tool for rational discourse!

Cheers,

[hammegk]

See how effective your teachings methods are?

Jeers, gk

[rwald]

So, because the college-aged African-Americans who are in jail aren't atheists, neither are the college-aged African-Americans who are in college...

Generally, starting with a faulty premise and continuing with faulty logic is not conducive to producing a convincing result.

[hammegk]

Darned if I know. None of the atheists here have posted any studies on the atheistness of Afro college students.

Do you have some data?

[rwald]

No. I would agree that we don't have any data on the number of atheist African-American college students.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are no atheist African-American college students. After all, if we have no data, we can't make any conclusions.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by rwald

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are no atheist African-American college students. After all, if we have no data, we can't make any conclusions.


Oh, OK. You just typed this for the hell of it ...

"So, because the college-aged African-Americans who are in jail aren't atheists, neither are the college-aged African-Americans who are in college..."

No problem here. ;)

[rwald]

I made that argument as an example of a logically flawed argument. You may note that my next sentence pointed out two of these fatal flaws, namely 1. that it was based on a faulty premise (there's no data that no prison inmates are atheists), and 2. that data about prison inmates has no correlation to data about college students. In the future, I guess I'll need to explicitly point out when I'm giving an example of a flawed argument, since you clearly can't recognize one on your own.

[hammegk]

(there's no data that no prison inmates are atheists)[/B][/QUOTE]

OK, I concede.

" A least none of the 469,000 pretend to be atheists! " must be revised, viz., "An unknown number of the 469,000 may be atheists."

Happy now?

BTW, why do you think your statement is correct? Have you actually looked for such data? I'd like to see a study showing the number of atheists in jails, but again, I've been assured here in JREF that "prison inmates are not atheists".


PS. Please offer your logic & advice in the "Is This The Aim" thread in R&P. ;)

[Fade]

Don't listen to them hammy, I believe in you!

[rwald]

So there may exist data discussing atheism in jails. Since I don't have this data, for me it's as good as non-existant. I'm not going to scour the web searching for data on atheism in jails; if you want to prove me wrong, all you need to do is produce a study about this.

I believe the null hypothesis, namely that no data exists. Do you have evidence to disprove this?

[hammegk]

Originally posted by rwald
No. I would agree that we don't have any data on the number of atheist African-American college students.

However, I wouldn't go so far as to say that there are no atheist African-American college students. After all, if we have no data, we can't make any conclusions.

Interesting. We don't have any data on existence of god either.

Atheists draw a conclusion at 100% confidence in that fact. And you think I use faulty logic, huh? :rolleyes:

[rwald]

The whole atheist/agnostic argument has been made elsewhere. But I'll restate it, anyway. Here are the three possible opinions:

(Some people say weak atheist/strong atheist to make this distinction; others say atheist/agnostic. I've included both titles.)

Theist: I believe that there is a God.
Strong Atheist/Atheist: I believe that there is no God.
Weak Atheist/Agnostic: I have no evidence either way, and therefore cannot believe either opinion.

Personally, I'm an agnostic. I've seen no evidence to suggest that God exists, and some evidence that should exist if God were to exist doesn't. But that is far from conclusive, so I can't make any absolute conclusions about God either way.

I'll admit, anyone who says they are 100% certain that God doesn't exist is using faulty logic. But that may not include everyone you think it does.

[BillyJoe]

rwald,

The term "agnostic" doesn't apply specifically to God. "Agnostic" means "unknowable" and can apply to any subject. Being agnostic about God means that you believe that the existence or non-existence of God is intrinsically unknowable not just that there is no evidence at the present time.

I think the word you're looking for is "nontheist".

regards,
BillyJoe

[RichardR]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
rwald,

The term "agnostic" doesn't apply specifically to God. "Agnostic" means "unknowable" and can apply to any subject. Being agnostic about God means that you believe that the existence or non-existence of God is intrinsically unknowable not just that there is no evidence at the present time.

I think the word you're looking for is "nontheist".

Dictionary.com defines agnostic as: (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=agnostic)

1a. One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God.

1b. One who is skeptical about the existence of God but does not profess true atheism.

2. One who is doubtful or noncommittal about something.



:)

[xouper]

bump

[BillyJoe]

Richard,

I'm agnostic about dictionary definitions. ;)

BillyJoe
(Sorry for the long delay in responding :D )

[jj]

Originally posted by hammegk


Interesting. We don't have any data on existence of god either.

Atheists draw a conclusion at 100% confidence in that fact. And you think I use faulty logic, huh? :rolleyes:

Once again, please do not falsely state the claims and positions of atheists. I conclude that there is no god, based on the lack of evidence and lack of need. Should evidence or need arise, the position is provisional. Your claim of 100% confidence is a sinful lie, sir, and you should abase yourself before your chosen throne and repent.

[hammegk]

Originally posted by jj


I conclude that there is no god, based on the lack of evidence and lack of need. Should evidence or need arise, the position is provisional.
Goody, that makes you an agnostic.


Your claim of 100% confidence is a sinful lie, sir, and you should abase yourself before your chosen throne and repent.
What makes you think you might actually be an "atheist"?

[Fade]

Originally posted by BillyJoe
Richard,

I'm agnostic about dictionary definitions. ;)

BillyJoe
(Sorry for the long delay in responding :D )

Only took ya 12 months!

[jj]

Originally posted by hammegk

Goody, that makes you an agnostic.


An agnostic makes no conclusion. I make a conclusion. Ergo, I am not an agnostic.

What makes you think you might actually be an "atheist"?
The fact that I am.

[hammegk]

Sounds like you're almost positive. :)

[Johnny Pneumatic]

hammegk, there are atheists in prison; just not many.
We are so moral.

[BillyJoe]

Fade,

Originally posted by Fade
Only took ya 12 months! Oh well, my puzzle on the Puzzle Forum remained unsolved for almost as long until Nova got it on the rebound. :)

(But then he missed the whole point of it as a reference to the original puzzle he himself posted :D )

BillyJoe
(You win some, you lose some)