Testing abroad

[Garron]

I want to know if the JREF is able to test people who profess to have a paranormal power outside of the USA?

I myself am interested in takeing the test but I live the the UK. I have emailed in about this issue but to no avail. The JREF does not reply.

I really need to take the test. If I pass it then I'll have a very exiting future ahead.
If I fail then I can accept that these 'powers' I think I have are simply just a delusion. I shall then seek profesional help for my mental illness. Then I can move on and try to build a future for myself, though a considerably less exciting one. Either way I have to take the test!
I'm on the brink of suicide with the frustration of not knowing if these powers are real or if I'm simply a nutter. I have done tests of my own to try to validate the powers I think are real. But testing yourself is simply not good enough. It's possible I have arrived at the results (which have all been positive) only because I want the results to come out that way, further intothe delusion. However I have done tests with a friend and she says it is real. She does not lie (not much! not about something like this) but it is still not good enough.

I need you Randi! Test me dammit!

Yours sevearly frustrated

Garron

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Garron,

I am sure the test can be taken by anybody, although it would probably be necessary for you to travel to the US to go it.

Can I make a suggestion, though? Test yourself first. Test yourself under conditions where you can be sure that your on subjective biases will not skew the results. Doing so would likely save you both a considerable amount of money and embarrassment.

If you are not sure how to do this, simply describe what you think it is you are capable of doing, and I will try to come up with a simple test that you can do on your own, or possibly with some friends, that should unambiguously reveal whether your power is real or not.

Dr. Stupid

[Garron]

Okay well the 'powers' are kind of a buch of things combined. Some of them are hard to control and indeed even unwanted.

Every time I explain them to someone I think to myself "this sounds ludacris, they will think I'm insane". But hear goes anyway...

In cronological order ('as I have discoved the powers):

1. To sexual stimulate a woman just by focusing on her. ( It's Something like fantasising about her, but whilst actaully strongly projecting my 'aura' (for want of a better word) onto her. Instead of keeping the fantasy in my head it project my hand moving, touching ect.) I tested it on my X girlfriend. She was 200miles away. She said please don't do it again cause she is with a new guy. She said it felt powerfull, something she had never felt before. She also said she felt very horney and needed a vibrator to release the tension! (she'll kill me if she finds out I posted this on the net, thank god for anonmnity). I have also test it on numerous other girls. Years back when I was at school. Also on the bus, train, at work more recently. Mostly I get some reaction, the girl will often cross her legs, or open them wider (posibly just coincidence) and some will start to tap thier legs. One or two girls have been very receptive, thier pupils dialated, lips engorged with blood, and a look about the face that could only be described as 'orgasmic'. Sounds like rubbish I know! As if I'm just looking for attention. But that is not the case.

2. People can hear my thoughts and I can trancemit thoughts to them, but it's not easy to control and is sometimes unwanted. I don't want to go into detail because this is the most disturbing for me. I don't want people to hear my every though! I am aware that 'thinking people can hear your thoughts' is a syptom of schitzophrenia. I havent really tested this one. It seems to occur at home or at work. Many things have happend that start to make me think it is real, but that may just be part of the delusion. I have not plucked up the courage to ask someone who I think I have been mentaly comunicating with if it's real. Because if I am wrong I will be very embarased. But I realise I have to ask them. It's the only way to bring closure to the situation.

3. I can 'create plesure' or a general sence of well being, sometimes quite extream, like an endorfin release, or even the use of the drug MDMA (Extasy) in other people, even a whole group at a time. It takes concious effort and concentration to do this one. I tried it in a club on a few occasions. As I was doing it, the guy behind me put his hand on my back as a friendly excited gesture as if to say "yeah this is great!". i did not know that guy. Then later in the same club as I left the bathroom a guy said as I passed, "you made me feel beautiful" or something to that effect. I did not know him either. I was not on any drugs (except 2 drinks), nor have I been for the past 2 years. I have very briefly experimented with drugs in the past.

I may well have imagined all the girls at school, on busses at work, being stimulated and or hearing thoughts. I may also have imagined the guy who said "make me feel beautifull".
But I have no logical critical exclusion or explantion for my X girlfriend saying the powers are real (she is a christian and not at all into paranormal things). I also have no explanation for the guy who put his hand on my back with such a belated, thankfull expresion on his face.

Just for intereste's sake, if I do win the challenge, then with the money and the publicity I will open up an educational institution to try to find and train other who may have genuine abilities. Cold readers not accepted, they are obviously money making fraudsters and should be exposed for what they are, and then shot in pubilc (even tortured) as a waring to others. Just as all criminals should be treated. The only way to stop people commiting crimes is if you instil the fear of death or torture in the potential crimal.

By the way thanx for your reply Dr. (not so) Stupid

Garron

[Stimpson J. Cat]

Garron,

1. To sexual stimulate a woman just by focusing on her. ( It's Something like fantasising about her, but whilst actaully strongly projecting my 'aura' (for want of a better word) onto her. Instead of keeping the fantasy in my head it project my hand moving, touching ect.) I tested it on my X girlfriend. She was 200miles away. She said please don't do it again cause she is with a new guy. She said it felt powerfull, something she had never felt before. She also said she felt very horney and needed a vibrator to release the tension! (she'll kill me if she finds out I posted this on the net, thank god for anonmnity). I have also test it on numerous other girls. Years back when I was at school. Also on the bus, train, at work more recently. Mostly I get some reaction, the girl will often cross her legs, or open them wider (posibly just coincidence) and some will start to tap thier legs. One or two girls have been very receptive, thier pupils dialated, lips engorged with blood, and a look about the face that could only be described as 'orgasmic'. Sounds like rubbish I know! As if I'm just looking for attention. But that is not the case.

I assume from what you have said, that the girls does not need to be present? This power is easily tested. First, you will ave to explain this "talent" of your to several girls, and get them to agree to the test. Then you have them each go wait in a room, and you try to use your "power" on one of them, from a separate room, where they can't see you. Afterwards, ask them each if they felt an effect.

If none of them say yes, then your power obviously did not work.

If several of them say they felt something, then this means that a sort of "placebo effect" is in action. They are expecting to experience something, and so some of them misinterpret their own horny thoughts as influence from you. If this is the case, do several trials, each time targeting a random girl, and see if there is any correlation (in the statistical sense).

As an added control, I suggest you pick which girl to target at random (roll some dice or something). That way, you won't inadvertently select the girl that seems, when you explain it to her, to be the most credulous, and therefore more likely to "imagine it".

2. People can hear my thoughts and I can trancemit thoughts to them, but it's not easy to control and is sometimes unwanted. I don't want to go into detail because this is the most disturbing for me. I don't want people to hear my every though! I am aware that 'thinking people can hear your thoughts' is a syptom of schitzophrenia. I havent really tested this one. It seems to occur at home or at work. Many things have happend that start to make me think it is real, but that may just be part of the delusion. I have not plucked up the courage to ask someone who I think I have been mentaly comunicating with if it's real. Because if I am wrong I will be very embarased. But I realise I have to ask them. It's the only way to bring closure to the situation.

This is easily tested. Get a deck of cards, and have someone sit across from you. Shuffle the deck, and the begin looking at cards, one at a time. Each time, mentally verbalize the suit of the card. Then have the other person guess it. A good control would be to make sure they can't see your face. Do a few hundred cards, and then check the results to see if they scored significantly better than a 25% success rate.

3. I can 'create plesure' or a general sence of well being, sometimes quite extream, like an endorfin release, or even the use of the drug MDMA (Extasy) in other people, even a whole group at a time. It takes concious effort and concentration to do this one. I tried it in a club on a few occasions. As I was doing it, the guy behind me put his hand on my back as a friendly excited gesture as if to say "yeah this is great!". i did not know that guy. Then later in the same club as I left the bathroom a guy said as I passed, "you made me feel beautiful" or something to that effect. I did not know him either. I was not on any drugs (except 2 drinks), nor have I been for the past 2 years. I have very briefly experimented with drugs in the past.

The test for this would be similar to that of the (1). Get a few people together, and run several trials. For half of the trials, don't try to do it. For the other half, attempt to use your power. Each time, have them record whether they felt anything or not. Then check for statistical correlation. As a control, they should not be able to see you when you are doing it. Also, they should record whether they felt anything or not before seeing you.

Just for intereste's sake, if I do win the challenge, then with the money and the publicity I will open up an educational institution to try to find and train other who may have genuine abilities. Cold readers not accepted, they are obviously money making fraudsters and should be exposed for what they are, and then shot in pubilc (even tortured) as a waring to others. Just as all criminals should be treated. The only way to stop people commiting crimes is if you instil the fear of death or torture in the potential crimal.

Well, if power number (1) turns out to be real, I would like to be the first to sign up for your training. :D

Dr. Stupid

[Garron]

Good tests. I will try to organise them. It's going to be a little difficult to organise. Most of my friends are quite skeptical. :rolleyes:

As for stimulating girls without physical contact, I've only once tried it when the girl was not present (on my X). Most of my atempts were on the girl in the desk infront of me. In most cases she could not see me and there was aproximatly 2-4 meters distance between us. Sometimes I would not notice any effect at all. In those cases I asumed that either the girl was simply too busy in her mind (during an exam), not relaxed enough (or too stressed) or I was not putting in right effort. Basicaly the same reasons a girl would not respond to normal sexual advances.

The problem now is how do you ask the girls to agree to the test? "Hey baby, can i psychicaly shag you? Can a telepathicaly thouch you? Wanna mentaly mate?". I mean even the most open minded (and open leged) girls would be unlikely to take me seriously and I'd probly get a laugh from most girls, not to mention a slap or two! :mad:

Now that I think about it, all of the examples I have mentioned could easily be explained as coincidence or delusion. But it's definatly still worth testing. Wish me luck!

[Questioninggeller]

Read the Challenge Application carefully it states:

QUOTE from http://www.randi.org/research/challenge.html

6)" All expenses such as transportation, accommodation, materials, assistants, and/or all other costs for any persons or procedures incurred in pursuit of the reward, are the sole responsibility of the applicant. Neither the JREF nor JR will bear any of the costs."

[Garron]

Yes i am well aware of this...
Hence the the importance of enquiring if the JREF has employee's and vacilities situated outside the USA. This could greatly reduce the tranceport cost.

I recall an article I read on this site that mentioned JREF employee's abroad. I don't remember the exact article but it was in relation to some famous "cold reader" or dowser who was afraid to take the challenge and gave the excuse that thier skedual was too hectic. J Randi replied that they have numourous people all over the world, therefore the excuse was invalid.
My reason for asking the question is to be sure that testing abroad is actauly posible.

I'm still awaiting a reply for J Randi if testing in UK is possible

[thatguywhojuggles]

If you are ever in the Bristol area, I would gladly help test you.

[The Fool]

I know how you feel Garron, while drinking Tequila in a hot-tub full of supermodels I can communicate with dead people....That Bastard Randi simply refuses to set up the test.

I would suggest saving yourself some time by forgetting the Jref challenge and move directly to the professional help.

[Garron]

Your responce was so typical and predictable.

I don't mean that as a personal attack.

Put it this way, hypotheticaly, if I were to see a post like the one I wrote, I would not believe a word of it. It would be obviously aparent that the person posting claims of making women wet without touching is just some horny, delusional, atention needing looser.

I can see where you are coming from and therefore your responce is of no surprise.

While I was writing my claims I was thinking that someone would be bound to post someting just like you did.

Since the first post I have done some basic tests of myself. They are not at all rigid enough but they all come out positive. I tested on my ex girl friend again, without telling her I would be atempting it on her. The next day she sent me a message saying to leave her alone. She was quite pissed of. She went on to say it's sad and her new partner thinks the same, I should get a life and stop projecting my thoughts.

Well maybe she's just a looney too! Maybe she's just interpreting some feelings as my influence.

Put it this way, I am skeptical of myself. However, since I keep on seeing things which seem to confirm the "powers" I'm forced to deal with it one of two way, either it's real and I must do something constructive with these powers. Or it's not real and I'm simply in a heavily delusional state of mind.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Garron
Your responce was so typical and predictable.

I knew you would say that.





Put it this way, hypotheticaly, if I were to see a post like the one I wrote, I would not believe a word of it. It would be obviously aparent that the person posting claims of making women wet without touching is just some horny, delusional, atention needing looser.


correct.


Since the first post I have done some basic tests of myself. They are not at all rigid enough but they all come out positive. I tested on my ex girl friend again, without telling her I would be atempting it on her. The next day she sent me a message saying to leave her alone. She was quite pissed of. She went on to say it's sad and her new partner thinks the same, I should get a life and stop projecting my thoughts.


Hmmmm, I'm reluctant to call you a liar... maybe your ex also believes you have this power and thinks you are doing it to her....

Well maybe she's just a looney too! Maybe she's just interpreting some feelings as my influence.


agreed.

Put it this way, I am skeptical of myself. However, since I keep on seeing things which seem to confirm the "powers" I'm forced to deal with it one of two way, either it's real and I must do something constructive with these powers. Or it's not real and I'm simply in a heavily delusional state of mind.

I would say the second option is the most likely. Maybe you'd like to test it and attempt to "psychic shag" me? Or, If you are not that way inclined please feel free to "psychic shag" my wife. I'll ask her tomorrow and see if you are a good "psychic shag"

you are an idiot, get help.

[LillyThePink]

I'm also spotting troll.... the spelling mistakes are not those of a person who cannot spell, but rather one who is attempting to appear less educated than they are.

Ho hum.

[Garron]

I'm asuming you mean I'm a troll? Well if so then I'm a pretty crap troll. If I really wanted atention, like all trolls do, then I'd have bothered to insult De_Bunk back. But really what would the point be? What was the point in De_bunk firsts being sarcastic with intent to poke fun at me? It seems maybe De_Bunk himself is looking for attention.

As for my spelling, I really don't have the time to bother about mis-spelling words. - Well actaully I do have the time, too much time, but that is besides the point. I'm not posting to get atention.

The first reply I got from stimpy is all I needed. The tests he suggested make sence, although I'm not sure how I'm going to go about organising them. Who the f**k is going to oblige (let alone belive) that the test will be of any point? My friends will think I'm nuts. The only person I told is my sister and she 'knows' that I'm just imagining it. For me, I understand how unrealistic it seems, that's when I think it must be a delusion. But there have been one or two incidents that just seem to real. Thats why I feel the need to test it. To be sure. To put and end, or to make a beggining.

It's typical of so many threds that someone tries to make it personal and they go completly off the point. It always becomes a silly circle of trying to personaly attack the person as opposed to attacking thier arguments. In this case there is no argument. I just said I think I have powers but maybe I'm imagining it and this is a cause of (fairly) great stress in my life. I'm not putting forward any opinions or theories. So then there is nothing to argue.

De_Bunk, you really are a bit s**t. Where the f**k do you come off calling me an idiot? When the f**k did I insult you (besides the previous sentence)? What do you hold against me? Sad grumpy old drunk. Dammit! - look at what I'm saying I'm getting all riled up and it's pointless. It's what you want innit? De_Bunk it really seems to me that you share a lot in common with a typical troll.

I've already got all the info I need:
1. Testing abroad IS possible
2. Some tests I can do on myself BEFORE I try Randi's challenge.

Thats it! Therefore there really is no point in visiting this thred again.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Garron
De_Bunk, you really are a bit s**t. Where the f**k do you come off calling me an idiot? When the f**k did I insult you (besides the previous sentence)? What do you hold against me? Sad grumpy old drunk. Dammit! - look at what I'm saying I'm getting all riled up and it's pointless. It's what you want innit? De_Bunk it really seems to me that you share a lot in common with a typical troll.


I Think it was me that called you an Idiot, on this thread at least. I've got no doubt that others have probably done the same....

"where the f**k do you come off calling me an idiot"?

let me count the ways......I used the word "Idiot" because it was less offensive that "F**king Idiot". See, I was thinking about your feelings......
Now Go away please....game over.

[Sanamas]

Are there some other threads where Garron posted something that would justify this level of hostility? Sure, he may be crazy or a fraud, but from everything I've read in this thread, there's no reason to start the insult contest just yet.

[Purple Tentacle]

quote - "Sure, he may be crazy or a fraud, but from everything I've read in this thread, there's no reason to start the insult contest just yet."

agreed, please try to be 'skeptical', which means saying "ok show me the proof" and don't be closed minded by saying "you are an idiot, get help"

its as stupid to totally reject anyones claims straight up as it is to believe in it straight up.

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Purple Tentacle
its as stupid to totally reject anyones claims straight up as it is to believe in it straight up.

Ok Tentacle, My particular power is that when I am Drinking Tequila in a Hot tub full of Supermodels I can talk to dead people.

Now....How much time and effort do you wish to put into helping me test this?

Garron was simply Trolling, you will probably not see or hear from them again on this thread. They arrive, post some crap and vanish.

Garron is off starting other threads having (apparently) forgotten all about having mystical power over women.....

[The Fool]

Garron PM'd me the following....

Grow up. I mean really. You telling me to go away, but then why the hell do you bother coming onto my thread? Just to insult me? Do you have nothing better to do?
I'm NOT offend neither are my feelings hurt (*sob* *sob* ) but I just wonder why you bother to be so negative. Does it get you hard? Does it excite you, yeah baby! You want me to pycily shag you and your wife? Well how am I to do that if I don't know where the hell you live and I've never met you? Don't worry, I'm not saying I want to know where you live. Even if I did I wouldn't care. Neither would I care to 'do' you...

Whaadeva



I MEAN REALLY! Sheeeesh!


10-11-2002 09:52 PM


So....Garron, If you did know me do you still think you could do it?? Or are you starting to regret ever making this claim? You could always register a new ID and just quietly forget it.... Unfortunately, whenever I see the name "Garron" I just cannot stop laughing....

[Garron]

Just answer one thing. Why are you so interested in me now? Are you secretly jelous of me in some weird sort of way? Come on. I mean really boy, this is patheticaly childish.

Yeah well I've definatly figuered out that you are looking for some sort of atention. You find someone who is easy to mock, then you fire away with some low-wit insults. You love the idea that other people think you are relly cleaver for insulting someone. Before even really making an atempt to understand the other persons views/claim. - regardless of how obviously stupid they might seem (remember Genius is limited but stupidity is not, so if you can understand someone stupid, or how they got to that state WITHOUT just saying, ah you are a stupid idiot your genius will be linked to stupidity and therefore will be unlimited!) Try expand a little, use some big difficult words, then people will think you are even more cool, wanker.

De_Bunk you are clearly insecure and get some pathetic kick out of having a go at me. Geee, it's really F**KING hard to insult someone who spills thier guts about some weird thoughs they are having, knowing fullwell that most people will think he's mad, he even thinks he's going mad himself (sometimes). Thats really hard De_Bunk how do you come up with your insults? You are so cool man.

I come on here and just laid down what I was really feeling and thinking. I could not confide with anyone in person because the embarisment would be a lot harder to deal with that it is on-line. Anonmnity is one of the great things of the internet.

They you come along and just start insulting me. F**k off and die you stupid little f**k.

Onto ignore you go...

BTW, I probly could 'do' your wife, I don't do guys, so I don't even know if it would work (all this asuming that it is real and not a delusion). But I would not want to do your wife. Anything that lets you touch it in such ways must be even more vile that yourself *sound of skin crawling*

[Garron]

Where the hell is this thred going? It's going the way far too may threds do. It's becomeing personal and just a silly match of slinging insults (yes I'm admiting sillyness on my own behalf).

This is not, I'm sure, what Randi intended the Forum to be. Actaully I recall he made an anouncment to that effect.



Once again I have already got the information I came for:

1. Testing abroad is possible.
2. Some tests I can perform for myself
(Thanx Stimpy, thanx for listening and not just insulting me, which is obviously a no brainer. )

[The Fool]

Garron.....I'm not de_bunk.... Are you ok? you seem to be loosing it. Are you off your medication?

[Garron]

:confused: :eek: :o :( :rolleyes: :mad:
(schitzo, woo woo!)

Er me? No I'm fine!

That really was absent minded of me. I've also had bad flu for the past week for which I've been taking fairly powerfull medication. That might be the explanation. Err. that or I am just f****** loosing it :confused:
I think I had De_Bunk on the brain cause I had just read the whole thread "An Ode To De_Bunk".

Okay you got me there The Fool, now I'm the fool.

But you still haven't given any explanation as to why you even bother posting on this thread.

My guess is you'll answer something like "So I can watch you make a fool of yourself, it amuses me".

[Garron]

Garron is off starting other threads having (apparently) forgotten all about having mystical power over women.....

I'm a bit daft I didn't even notice this post the first time round, else I would have said something.

The Fool you are focusing way to much on the whole woman thing. Forget about it. I was aware right from the start that it would seem that I just want to get some sexy women to test. But remember all equipment and or helpers and whatnot must be supplied by the person claiming the power, so that wouldn't get me any where. Also in any proper testing conditions I would not be able to see and certainly not touch the women so where is the fun in that?

You really haven't read anything very well and have just focused on a few phrases that get you all excited. Namely those mentioning anything about women. Perhaps you have some issuse there?

As for me posting else where, how do you correlate that with me forgeting the claims of powers? I am sort of in the process of doing my own test before I take this matter any further. I am rather busy just trying to survive in london on my own at the moment (being only 20 with no qualification) so I dont have a lot of time to do this. If my own tests fail then I'll obviously forget the whole thing. Untill then...

I've been trying my powers (or going further into delusion, whatever the case may be) in a different way. Instead of on woman for pleasure, i tried something on a few men sitting in front of me in the bus. I focused on thier neck to make them itchy. They have all scrated the back of thier necks about 10 seconds into my focusing. Could be a complete conincidence. But the important point is I can substitute this power in place of stimulating women cause that seems to cause too much flap.

why am I wasting my time posting here....?

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Garron
.... snip
why am I wasting my time posting here....? [/B]

Well, If you have no need for a million dollars, then I would agree, you are waisting your time.


If you could use a million, you could go ahead and follow Dr. Stupid's advice.


It really should not be a problem, (I'm sure someone on this board could help) to find someone locally, who would be willing to help you with a prelimenary test, and fund your trip to the U.S., if you were willing to share the prize.

What you may find as ironic, is that the most ardent skeptic, is more likely to help you in your sincere efforts than any woo woo you can find.

After all, I would challenge you to find any practicing 'PSY' type, who will give you a million dollars to demonstrate your abilities.

[Nova Land]

Hi! I was away when this thread started, but have been enjoying reading it, especially the posts from Stimpson the Cat. (But I guess that's to be expected; cats are by nature intelligent and worth paying attention to.)

I don't think there was any need for The Fool to insult you (nor any real need for you to insult him back; I'm glad you realized this on your own and called the exchange of insults off.). It was very pleasing to see Sanamas and Purple Tentacle weigh in on the side of civility. I hope I and others can follow their example in future cases.

The ability you believe you may have does indeed sound strange, but I remember reading about something very similar in a novel some years back. I think it was one of Trevanian's books from the 1980s; he wrote some novels with "Sanction" in the titles (Eiger Sanction, Loo Sanction, possibly others), one of which was made into a movie with Clint Eastwood if I recall correctly. Anyway, in the book I read the hero and his lover play a game with each other where they sit across the room from each other and try to stimulate the other to orgasm purely psychically; whoever comes first, loses. It's not great literature but they're entertaining, and I thought you might enjoy reading them.

[Just in case what I'm recalling is not from Trevanian, does anyone else recall the book I'm referring to?]

Good luck in your efforts to test yourself! I hope you will continue to post to let those of us who have been reading this thread know of your progress.

[Elind]

Originally posted by Garron
I want to know if the JREF is able to test people who profess to have a paranormal power outside of the USA?

I myself am interested in takeing the test but I live the the UK. I have emailed in about this issue but to no avail. The JREF does not reply.

I really need to take the test. If I pass it then I'll have a very exiting future ahead.
If I fail then I can accept that these 'powers' I think I have are simply just a delusion. I shall then seek profesional help for my mental illness. Then I can move on and try to build a future for myself, though a considerably less exciting one. Either way I have to take the test!
I'm on the brink of suicide with the frustration of not knowing if these powers are real or if I'm simply a nutter. I have done tests of my own to try to validate the powers I think are real. But testing yourself is simply not good enough. It's possible I have arrived at the results (which have all been positive) only because I want the results to come out that way, further intothe delusion. However I have done tests with a friend and she says it is real. She does not lie (not much! not about something like this) but it is still not good enough.

I need you Randi! Test me dammit!

Yours sevearly frustrated

Garron

TROLL:eek:

[Garron]

Nova Land, thanx for the civility :). Actaully when ever I come to check this post for reply (who knows why i still do:confused: ) I always expect the worst thinking that they'll all be insults or acusations of being a troll.

Thanx also for the suggested reading material. I'll check it out some time.

If I can suggest a couple of books that I think everyone should read, although it has nothing at all to do with the topic
(and no, I do not stand to gain ANYTHING be it finanicail or other wise from the sales of either of these books, so don't even start to accuse me of that, OKAY? :mad: ). I just like these books so much and feel that between them (even though they are unrelated) they offer a way to change the mess the world is in, if only the whole world would read them...

1 Buddhism plain and simple - Steve Hagen

2 They F*** You Up - James Oliver

The first is pretty much self explanitory. It's short, to the point and leaves all the bells and whistels and other crap that any 2500 year old 'religeon' is bound to acumulate. Try to not think of it as Buddhism or a religeon but rather as a philosophy and moral structure that actauly works.

The second is written by a succsefull child phycologist (he's done a couple of documentary TV series). It's about how the treatment you recieve in first 6 years of life is crucial in determining the person you become as an adult. As oppsed to the common belief that genes play the main roll. If genes were responsible then there would be no point in ever trying to reabilitate f*cked up people or trying to improove yourself. Obiviously this is not the case. He also frequently challenges the argument that schitzophrenia (which I may be suffering from if it turns out these powers are not real) is not purely genetic. Genes play a role but it is the way you are treated age 0-6 the can 'activate' the desise.

I don't know if "They F*** You Up" will be available in the US though...? It should be.

Anyway, for those of you who just wanna say, "TROLL!" save it for someone who is going to protest that they are not a troll. That way you can get into a big flap together and have a nice big tiff online and feel good when it looks like you are winning! Yay!
As with me you can't win, cause I refuse to play...

[Nova Land]

Originally posted by Garron

1 Buddhism plain and simple - Steve Hagen

2 They F*** You Up - James Oliver
Thanks for the book suggestions; both sound interesting, and I'll keep an eye out for them.

I'm interested in learning more about Buddhism, especially Vipassana meditation, so the first is especially of interest. I'm very fond of plain and simple!

Here's 2 books that you might enjoy:

1. The Tale of the Reed Pipe: Teachings of the Sufis by Massud Farzan; and

2. The Way of the Sufi, by Idries Shah.

Both are collections of anecdotes (as well as some poetry and quotations in the latter book). To give you the flavor, here's a quick example from Tale of the Reed Pipe:

THE HUNGRY SERMON

A Fool, with no money to buy his next meal, became a priest. One day he climbed the pulpit and asked the congregation if they had any questions on religious matters.

"Where is the Prophet at present?" someone asked.

The Fool regretted having invited questions, but he had to give an answer and give it soon. "In Heaven," he said.

"Which level," the questioner wanted to know.

"The fifth level," the priest said without a pause.

"How can he obtain food for eating there?"

The Fool couldn't take it any more. "I have been in your town for over a month and you never wanted to know whether and how I got food to eat. And now you are worrying about the dProphet's dinner in Heaven! You people should be ashamed of your callous and heathen-like ways."

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Garron
I've been trying my powers (or going further into delusion, whatever the case may be) in a different way. Instead of on woman for pleasure, i tried something on a few men sitting in front of me in the bus. I focused on thier neck to make them itchy. They have all scrated the back of thier necks about 10 seconds into my focusing. Could be a complete conincidence. But the important point is I can substitute this power in place of stimulating women cause that seems to cause too much flap.

why am I wasting my time posting here....?

Bingo!! you are going to be a millionaire! Unless you are lying.......

[Nova Land]

Say, Fool, as long as you're here could you confirm or deny if the story about you posted above ("The Hungry Sermon") is true? I don't recall your having mentioned being a priest before, but I'm still relatively new here and haven't read all your posts.

I was thinking the last line would make a cute signature (although I don't know if I really want a signature) but I'd hate to use it if it isn't really true.

Hmm. Let me try it out and see how it looks...

----------
"You people should be ashamed of your callous and heathen-like ways." -- The Fool

[The Fool]

well, that is not me in the story...If you keep that sig people might attribute it to me. If thats the case, I'd better state it so that it can be attributed to me....so here goes.

You people should be ashamed of your callous and heathen-like ways.

There you go, you can quote me now.

[Nova Land]

Garron has been absent from the forum for a while. Now that he's back, I thought I'd bump this old thread forward in hopes of getting an update on whether he was able to test the abilities he believed he possessed and, if so, what the results of these tests were.

[Garron]

I havent done any testing on myself yet. :( But the 'symptoms' still persist much to my grief - but sometimes awe, and indeed meglomania.

The thing is I'm simply just too afraid to ask anyone. However I constantly 'project' thoughts to people I beilve who can hear me, and I tell them that if they can hear me, if this is real then please come tell me. but think about it, if you heard some voice in your head that said:

"hey look I'm a phycic but I'm not sure if maybe I'm not and I'm actaully just insane. So I need your help. I need to do a simple card test with you. There is $25000 US in it for you! You see there is this challenge run by this Guy called James Randi, its on his site www.randi.org and no it's not a porn site. Anyway if I can proove I have a power then I get $1,000,000! I'll give you 25,000 of that, that works out to aprox. 17,000 pounds sterling! Thats more than most people make it a year. Come on! You gotta help me"

That exert is very similar to what I 'tell' most people. But when I think about it, if I herd those voices in my head I would be as reluctant to tell anyone about it as I am to tell people that I AM the voice (so to speak). Except in the almost compleatly anonymous medium of the internet. What I really need is a bunch of wacko woo-woo 'belivers' who will find nothing strange with my request of the test. unfortunatly all the people I know are not that way inclined.

Stangly enough, the most common things I do with this 'power' is to insult people or tell them very personal things, sometimes even made up personal things things. The people I insult psycicly are usually people I like, I think I just do that in the hope it will shock them into aproching me (asuming it is real).

I can't tell you how any times something has happed that has been kind of like proof to me that it is real. There have been so many instances (I've lost count), mostly when I sober, where people react or say something or do something that fits perfectly with this fantasy/reality of me being psycic (yeah my spelling sux). However here are few of the examples that really stood out in my memory.

(this is cronological)

1. (I had just 'discovered' my powers) People in flat upstairs from me talking (to me?) directly concearing things I was saying (mentaly). I was intentionaly saying these things to them. I often put my toung between my teeth and gently bite it to be absolutly sure I'm not speaking. (crazy huh?). I went as far as to organise to meet with them the next day, they were as excited about it as I was, but then I ask them if they were white or black (amoungst many other questions) and for some reason I couldn't help repeatedly saying the word 'n*gg*r' over and over again. But I'm not racist! Though I had a somewhat racist family upbringing, I presonaly think racism is stupid. They wern't impressed with this and called the meeting off. Needless to say I didn't go meet with them the next day. All the time they were above me and so the voices were muffled, only ocasionaly did they go to the window to talk, which i asked them to do repeatedly. I realise that it is possible I did hear them speaking but I manipulated them in my mind to fit into my (fantasy?) when in reality they may have been talking about something compleatly different.

2. I was in a club. Was dancing, had very little to drink. No drugs. I was feeling somewhat in a trance like state. Then i focused on what I called 'raising the level' i.e. power number 3, to create pleasure. I remember people acting differently the harder I concentred (although to be more acturate it's more like the LESS I concentrated, much like meditation). Then suddenly a guy put his hand put his hand on my back (kind of patted my back) I turned round and he didn't say anything but he was dancing and gesturing very obviously as if to say 'yeah man!'. Now I must stress that this was odd behavoir considering
A) the type of club, this was chilled out, highish class
B) i didn't know him
C) i was not doing anything that would illict such behavoir from him Eg, i was not dancing much so it would not suffice to explain it that he was simply gesturing to say 'cool dancing'. I was barely moving cause I was meditating (sort of).

3. This to me is the most convincing. I was at work. Went to the supervisor, as we do every time for him to assign you to a specific project. He told me what to do and then (jokingly) told me not to talk to anyone, and mentioned a few people in specific. The people he mentioned were people I used the 'power' on regularly. I must stress that in this job we are suposed to keep quite and if we talk the supervisors are quick to tell us to stop. Only on one such occasion had they told me to stop talking and this was when I was using the old fasion method of comunication, the mouth. After this incident I was really thinking about aproching this guy. But alas, me being as shy as I am I made excuses to myself and just left it alone.

I can't help but wonder will most people must think A)I'm nuts and want to mock me like the Fool? B)Will they remaine benigne and wait for further proof before making a decicion? C)Will they concluded that it is simply explainable as a metal problem causing me to halucinate in ways that fit in with this fantasy? It's probly something like A)30% B)10% C)60% of people. Hmmm i could do a poll. i should inculde a 4th catagory D)We beilve you, come join our woo-woo cult, and a 5th E) You are the son of satan! the power of Christ compells you!

[In case you noticed and were wondering I have to have a sence of humor about this other wise i truly would loose my mind!]

I really need someone who is not a woo-woo (they can't be trusted) and who is open mided yet reasonably sceptical and is not a previous aquaintance of mine to help me with this test. Of corse it would be much simpler (yet harder) if I just aproched one or more of the people if belive to have psycicly communicated with.

help! :confused:

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Garron



help! :confused:

Have you, urrrhh... ummmmm... considered counseling of some type?



On the other hand, in lieu of controlled testing, why don't you explore the ability of getting people to hand over
the currency in their pocketbooks?

This is what all professional psychics do. However, all of them are not quite so direct about it.

If you insist on a controlled environment, you might reconsider my earlier suggestion..

"It really should not be a problem, (I'm sure someone on this board could help) to find someone locally, who would be willing to help you with a prelimenary test, and fund your trip to the U.S., if you were willing to share the prize."

[glee]

Originally posted by Garron
I havent done any testing on myself yet. :( But the 'symptoms' still persist much to my grief - but sometimes awe, and indeed meglomania.


Hi Garron.
I must apologise for some posters, who may have been rude or aggressive.
We do get some startling claims on this board, and perhaps people are too quick to assume you're not serious.
Testing will help.

Originally posted by Garron
The thing is I'm simply just too afraid to ask anyone. However I constantly 'project' thoughts to people I beilve who can hear me, and I tell them that if they can hear me, if this is real then please come tell me. but think about it, if you heard some voice in your head that said:

"hey look I'm a phycic but I'm not sure if maybe I'm not and I'm actaully just insane. So I need your help. I need to do a simple card test with you. There is $25000 US in it for you! You see there is this challenge run by this Guy called James Randi, its on his site www.randi.org and no it's not a porn site. Anyway if I can proove I have a power then I get $1,000,000! I'll give you 25,000 of that, that works out to aprox. 17,000 pounds sterling! Thats more than most people make it a year. Come on! You gotta help me"


Her's some advice on testing yourself (it's similar to Stimpson J. Cat's):
Firstly you need to decide exactly what you can do.
Then, OK, 'arousing people' is perhaps awkward to test.
But saying you can mentally create an itch is not.
Use the precautions Stimpson outlined - you are trying to remove the possibility that you are cheating (accidentally or otherwise), and also the chance that people are co-operating with you (deliberately or otherwise).

Originally posted by Garron
That exert is very similar to what I 'tell' most people. But when I think about it, if I herd those voices in my head I would be as reluctant to tell anyone about it as I am to tell people that I AM the voice (so to speak). Except in the almost compleatly anonymous medium of the internet. What I really need is a bunch of wacko woo-woo 'belivers' who will find nothing strange with my request of the test. unfortunatly all the people I know are not that way inclined.


As someone said, you won't benefit from a woowoo who doesn't believe in scientific testing. You need a scientific type.
That's why the itching thing is probably best - it can be tested.

Originally posted by Garron
Stangly enough, the most common things I do with this 'power' is to insult people or tell them very personal things, sometimes even made up personal things things. The people I insult psycicly are usually people I like, I think I just do that in the hope it will shock them into aproching me (asuming it is real).


I'm sorry, this is silly.
Insulting people, or saying private personal things causes a negative reaction. If you say someone is a liar, they will be annoyed whether they are a liar or not.
You do not want to shock people to get their co-operation anyway. Get them interested by being polite and honest.

Originally posted by Garron
I can't tell you how any times something has happed that has been kind of like proof to me that it is real. There have been so many instances (I've lost count), mostly when I sober, where people react or say something or do something that fits perfectly with this fantasy/reality of me being psycic (yeah my spelling sux). However here are few of the examples that really stood out in my memory.


Alas, anecdotal evidence relying only on memory is not as reliable as a scientific observed test.
Here are some alternative explanations:

Originally posted by Garron
1. (I had just 'discovered' my powers) People in flat upstairs from me talking (to me?) directly concearing things I was saying (mentaly). I was intentionaly saying these things to them. I often put my toung between my teeth and gently bite it to be absolutly sure I'm not speaking. (crazy huh?). I went as far as to organise to meet with them the next day, they were as excited about it as I was, but then I ask them if they were white or black (amoungst many other questions) and for some reason I couldn't help repeatedly saying the word 'n*gg*r' over and over again. But I'm not racist! Though I had a somewhat racist family upbringing, I presonaly think racism is stupid. They wern't impressed with this and called the meeting off. Needless to say I didn't go meet with them the next day. All the time they were above me and so the voices were muffled, only ocasionaly did they go to the window to talk, which i asked them to do repeatedly. I realise that it is possible I did hear them speaking but I manipulated them in my mind to fit into my (fantasy?) when in reality they may have been talking about something compleatly different.


As you point out, you could have heard them.
Because you foolishly insulted them, you have no proof you heard correctly anyway.
Incidentally, if I found myself using endless racist remarks, I would seek help.

Originally posted by Garron
2. I was in a club. Was dancing, had very little to drink. No drugs. I was feeling somewhat in a trance like state. Then i focused on what I called 'raising the level' i.e. power number 3, to create pleasure. I remember people acting differently the harder I concentred (although to be more acturate it's more like the LESS I concentrated, much like meditation). Then suddenly a guy put his hand put his hand on my back (kind of patted my back) I turned round and he didn't say anything but he was dancing and gesturing very obviously as if to say 'yeah man!'. Now I must stress that this was odd behavoir considering
A) the type of club, this was chilled out, highish class
B) i didn't know him
C) i was not doing anything that would illict such behavoir from him Eg, i was not dancing much so it would not suffice to explain it that he was simply gesturing to say 'cool dancing'. I was barely moving cause I was meditating (sort of).


1. He may have been on drugs.
2. You interpreted a gesture - how do you know you got it right?
3. What do you mean by people 'acting differently'? If you were meditating in a club, anyone might stare at you (why's he not dancing? what's he on?).

Originally posted by Garron
3. This to me is the most convincing. I was at work. Went to the supervisor, as we do every time for him to assign you to a specific project. He told me what to do and then (jokingly) told me not to talk to anyone, and mentioned a few people in specific. The people he mentioned were people I used the 'power' on regularly. I must stress that in this job we are suposed to keep quite and if we talk the supervisors are quick to tell us to stop. Only on one such occasion had they told me to stop talking and this was when I was using the old fasion method of comunication, the mouth. After this incident I was really thinking about aproching this guy. But alas, me being as shy as I am I made excuses to myself and just left it alone.


What is the power here?
Your superviser tells you to obey company policy, and it somehow means you are psychic?
I can't see how you think this example is convincing.

Originally posted by Garron
I can't help but wonder will most people must think A)I'm nuts and want to mock me like the Fool? B)Will they remaine benigne and wait for further proof before making a decicion? C)Will they concluded that it is simply explainable as a metal problem causing me to halucinate in ways that fit in with this fantasy? It's probly something like A)30% B)10% C)60% of people. Hmmm i could do a poll. i should inculde a 4th catagory D)We beilve you, come join our woo-woo cult, and a 5th E) You are the son of satan! the power of Christ compells you!


B) (but check your spelling!)

[Garron]

Originally posted by Diogenes


Have you, urrrhh... ummmmm... considered counseling of some type?



On the other hand, in lieu of controlled testing, why don't you explore the ability of getting people to hand over
the currency in their pocketbooks?

This is what all professional psychics do. However, all of them are not quite so direct about it.

If you insist on a controlled environment, you might reconsider my earlier suggestion..



Actaully I forgot about your idea I'll look into it as soon as I get back to UK.

[Garron]

I'm sorry, this is silly.
Insulting people, or saying private personal things causes a negative reaction. If you say someone is a liar, they will be annoyed whether they are a liar or not.
You do not want to shock people to get their co-operation anyway. Get them interested by being polite and honest.

yes I'm well aware that it is silly. I think i failed to convey a certain important point. I'm kind of sort of loosing my mind here. I don't know how to explain it exactly but the best I can do is to compare it to tourettes syndrome (probly spelt wrong). What I mean is that it's not entirly under my control. It's a sort of compulsive disorder kind of thing.

There really is only so much that words can convey so it is frustrating for me to post like this. It's easier for me to say you (or anyone else) are wrong about a particular issue but it's probly got more to do with the limits of comunication.

The incident in the club was actaully just one moment in the whole night which happened to stand out in my memory. I'm also well aware that it's purely anecdotal evidence and therefore not usefull to me. I think i just needed to get it out. To talk about it helps. I guess you could say, some of the people i talk to on the net are my group therapy sessions (in a sence). I have tried real therapy, but i stoped the therapy almost 2 years BEFORE this thing started. I only went to a couple of sessions anyway. I tried therapy cause of manic depresion and suicide. Not a day goes by that I dont think of suicide. I've attempted a few time, and once i did it seriously, it very nearly worked. I hung myself with a belt. i woke up on the floor, with the most utterly awfull feeling, I think all my organs had been starved of oxygen and, god i can't describe how awfull it was. But in comparison, when you first hang, you feel youself slipping out of conciousness, it's rather nice. It feels so peacfull and warm and painless (but the constriction around your neck is not nice, so i got drunk and could not feel it much). While I'm writing this I'm seriously considering not actaully posing it, but then again why not? nothing bad will come of it. it does feel better to talk about things. I'm ramberling. Back to the point of therapy. it doesn't help. I think there are maybe a few good therapists out there but it's too hard to find them and they are too expensive.


What is the power here?
Your superviser tells you to obey company policy, and it somehow means you are psychic?
I can't see how you think this example is convincing.

Well I think I must not have explained correctly. It's not important anyway.

Only thing is to do the test.

Oh well

Are was still talking about testing abroad?

What about testing the men?

[sadluxation]

If you seriously want to take the preliminary test(s). You should contact Nick Pullar, who does this stuff in London.
You can either email or call him.
The details can be found here. (http://www.skeptic.org.uk/pub)
He is currently testing claims from people on Kilroy last month.

Good Luck and don't forget to tell us how it went. For quality control feedback, not so we can laugh at you.

[Nick_Pullar]

I have PM'ed Garron, and asked him if he would like me to arrange some testing for him.

I will let you all know how it goes!

Nick Pullar
www.skeptic.org.uk/pub

Welcome to the board Nick!

[max]

Garron
It does sound as though your seratonin level is f....d I think you should visit your GP first and tell him/her what you are experiencing. I don't know what drug you have tried in the past but cocaine f..ks up the seratonin level on the very first use of it. This can never correct itsself. It is rather like putting sugar into a glass of water...i.e. how does the water ever make itself clear again. There is hope, however, in anti depressants and your GP will know which ones to prescribe. drugs can also make a person paranoid on all sorts of subjects
It sounds as though you are hooking onto a belief that you have pshycic powers when in fact you are probably quite ill at present and moving into a depression.
It's not that I disbelieve your claims because I have experienced the paranormal too but one has to explore all avenues before coming to one particular conclusion.
Another point is this....you say other people are receiving your thoughts, well, that surely makes them psychic too, doesn't it? rather than pointing to your abilities. How can they pick up your vibes and thoughts if they don't have special powers.
And it surely can't just be all your circle of friends/acquaintences that have them

[Garron]

My seratonin levels definatly are a bit messed. However I think cocain acts on Dopamien not on seratonin. Extasy is the one that works on seratonin. Extasy (as far as i know) tells the brain to make an abnormaly large amount of seratonin. This damages the brains ability to produce seratonin, and damages much more I'm sure. Most Anti-depresants (Prozac) are all seratonin re-uptake inhibitors. Cocain is, esentialy, a dopamine re-uptake inhibitor. With long term use of either coke or prozac your brains eventualy stops making the associated neurotrasmiter. I think anti-depresants are trouble.

I have been to a shrink or two and tried an anti-depresant or 3. Mostly they seemed to make things worse, or help in a very superficial way (it's kind of like taking a few pills to cure the syptoms of a cold, but yourstill sick, the pills provide temporary relief but are by no means a long term solution). It's just my opinion, but I think drugs should largly be avoided in phcological treatment.

you are probably quite ill at present and moving into a depression.
I've been depressed for much longer that I have had this phycic thing.

you say other people are receiving your thoughts, well, that surely makes them psychic too, doesn't it?
Your quite right. And to take that point further, if every one can receive thought, then surly every one could also send them, if they only knew how. That is why I said right at the begining of this thread, that if this 'power' turns out to be real and it is prooved beyond doubt, I would dedicate a lot of my time to teaching others how to use thier ability. I've givin this idea a lot of thought. Such as what the advantages and the impact to human society would be if having phycic abilities becames as common place and as acceptable as say, owning a cell phone.

[glee]

Originally posted by Garron
... And to take that point further, if every one can receive thought, then surly every one could also send them, if they only knew how. That is why I said right at the begining of this thread, that if this 'power' turns out to be real and it is prooved beyond doubt, I would dedicate a lot of my time to teaching others how to use thier ability. I've givin this idea a lot of thought. Such as what the advantages and the impact to human society would be if having phycic abilities becames as common place and as acceptable as say, owning a cell phone.

I don't want to be too negative, but I would urge you to be very cautious about your chance of success.

Technology like e-mail and cell phones is based on proven scientific theories.
Once the breakthrough is made, then suddenly everyone takes it for granted. But there was plenty of scientific evidence and testing beforehand.

Note that no psychic power has ever been successfully demonstrated, let alone taught.

[Garron]

Yes this is all true and I know well that my chanes are slim.

You forget that I am not outright claiming that I have these powers. Nor am I asuming that anyone else may have them, or that it can be taught. I do however, at present, have a fairly stong belive that such things may be possible. I have had many experiences which have seeded a stong belife in this power. Sometimes I absolutly belive it is real. Other times I am quite skeptical of myself and try to find 'rational' explanations for these many events that have lead me down this path.

With the cell phone comparision I was really just presenting a 'what if' situation. What if the world was round? What if people can fly? Of corse these two example, are quit different to wide spred use of phycic powers. Still I am interested in how such a thing would affect the world, if even purely for the fantsty of it (maybe I'll write a movie script incorporating the idea, as I have written other scripts before).

As realalisticly (spell?) as you can, could you give ideas on how you might think the world would be differnt 10-20 years from now if a phycic is tested an confirmed tommorrow?

- I think it would change industry, religeon and many other facets of moden life.
industry: cell phones would become more or less obsolete. Religeon: this phycic person my be regarded as a meshiah by some, the anti-christ by others

[SFB]

Originally posted by Garron
As realalisticly (spell?) as you can, could you give ideas on how you might think the world would be differnt 10-20 years from now if a phycic is tested an confirmed tommorrow?


Psychics are "tested" on this forum quite frequently. I highly recommend you read the Paranormal section, or better yet, read the archived Swift articles.

Don't you think decades of testing and failures is at all telling???

[Garron]

Originally posted by SFB


Psychics are "tested" on this forum quite frequently. I highly recommend you read the Paranormal section, or better yet, read the archived Swift articles.

Don't you think decades of testing and failures is at all [I]telling[/U]???

Um yes indeed! It is very much telling. You've convinced me! I'm not a phycic! Whooopp dee doo. Dont take this as sacasim, cause it's not really.
DO you not read what is written? Have I not got the point across that I think very carfully about all the implication of all this &h!t before I talk about it. Maybe I failed to get the point across. Maybe I ommited certain bit of information which would have clearly illustrated this point. In that case it is a failure of my communication skills.
Or maybe you just like pointing out to me what I already know. Is that it? Dammit, I know EXACTLY how rediculous this claim is (remotly stimulating woman, making people itch, taking without speaking, making people 'rush' with pleasure WTF!). Do you not understand how this ties in with my metal instability, of which I am well aware?

I'm a bit pissed off that you quoted my question about what the world would be like. You seemed to misunderstand the reason for me asking that question. It was a "WHAT IF" question. Lets forget now, for a minute, that I have made this claim. Lets even forget all those that have been tested and failed. Humor me please, and try to imagine what the world would be like with the existance of phycic colleges that actaully can make you phycic! This is simply a request for peoples ideas, fantasty idea, FICTION! If you dont have any ideas then just..... dont....say ...anything!

[SFB]

Originally posted by Garron


Um yes indeed! It is very much telling. You've convinced me! I'm not a phycic! Whooopp dee doo. Dont take this as sacasim, cause it's not really.
DO you not read what is written? Have I not got the point across that I think very carfully about all the implication of all this &h!t before I talk about it. Maybe I failed to get the point across. Maybe I ommited certain bit of information which would have clearly illustrated this point. In that case it is a failure of my communication skills.
Or maybe you just like pointing out to me what I already know. Is that it? Dammit, I know EXACTLY how rediculous this claim is (remotly stimulating woman, making people itch, taking without speaking, making people 'rush' with pleasure WTF!). Do you not understand how this ties in with my metal instability, of which I am well aware?

I'm a bit pissed off that you quoted my question about what the world would be like. You seemed to misunderstand the reason for me asking that question. It was a "WHAT IF" question. Lets forget now, for a minute, that I have made this claim. Lets even forget all those that have been tested and failed. Humor me please, and try to imagine what the world would be like with the existance of phycic colleges that actaully can make you phycic! This is simply a request for peoples ideas, fantasty idea, FICTION! If you dont have any ideas then just..... dont....say ...anything!

I'll type what I want, thanks.

OK, you are adamant psychics don't have a leg to stand on. Why do you then go on to say "what if..."? Just seems a bit inconsistent. If you consider the failures, why do you then suppose a possibility there is something to it?

[glee]

Originally posted by Garron
...I am not outright claiming that I have these powers. Nor am I asuming that anyone else may have them, or that it can be taught. I do however, at present, have a fairly stong belive that such things may be possible. I have had many experiences which have seeded a stong belife in this power. Sometimes I absolutly belive it is real. Other times I am quite skeptical of myself and try to find 'rational' explanations for these many events that have lead me down this path.


Why do you have a strong belief in psychic powers?
People have been looking for them for centuries, without success.

Originally posted by Garron
With the cell phone comparision I was really just presenting a 'what if' situation. What if the world was round? What if people can fly? Of corse these two example, are quit different to wide spred use of phycic powers. Still I am interested in how such a thing would affect the world, if even purely for the fantsty of it (maybe I'll write a movie script incorporating the idea, as I have written other scripts before).


Well hard science fiction has been around for over a century exploring just such possibilities.
Of course the writers tend to listen to scientists and sometimes make astounding predictions (Arthur Clarke's geostationary satellite comes to mind.)
No author inspired by psychic powers has ever predicted anything.

Originally posted by Garron
As realalisticly (spell?) as you can, could you give ideas on how you might think the world would be differnt 10-20 years from now if a phycic is tested an confirmed tommorrow?

- I think it would change industry, religeon and many other facets of moden life.
industry: cell phones would become more or less obsolete. Religeon: this phycic person my be regarded as a meshiah by some, the anti-christ by others

You don't say what the power is, but I'll assume telepathy.
Once a 'psychic power' is established as real, it becomes part of science.
It would be taught in schools, businesses would give courses in advanced telepathy and the Government would offer jobs to the best practitioners.
I don't see what a telepath has to do with religion (unless you mean that people are gullible?).

[Nova Land]

Originally posted by Garron
What if the world was round? What if people can fly? Of course these two example, are quite different to wide spread use of psychic powers. Still I am interested in how such a thing would affect the world, if even purely for the fantasy of it...
Interesting question! (I'd have responded sooner, but have been tied up with other things this week and not able to spend much time here.)

Comic books (of which I am quite fond) speculate on this often. But most comics about people with psychic powers are mainly concerned with setting up conflicts between super-powered people, so they often overlook or downplay some of the differences the reality of such abilities would make on individuals and on society.

One of my favorite comics about a person with psychic powers (to digress) was Brain Boy. It only lasted 6 issues, alas. Neither the hero nor the opponents he fought wore costumes (which may be one reason it didn't last long) and it was a fairly realistic series (apart from time machines, intelligent dinosaurs, telepathic dictators, and microscopic aliens, not to mention a hero who can read minds and levitate himself.)

Comic book telepaths are largely able to control their abilities. They can send messages just like talking on a telephone, and can receive messages that others send. This is very convenient -- a much more convenient form of telepathy than the form Buffy (the Vampire Slayer) came down with in season 3's episode "Earshot". She had little or no control over the ability, and picked up thoughts from anyone near her. This constant noise was driving her crazy, and having their thoughts exposed made her friends not want to be close to her. (Great episode, by the way. If you don't already watch Buffy, give it a try.)

If telepathy is simple a way of transmitting words, the effects on individuals and society would seem much less than if it is a way of transmitting thoughts. One can lie with words pretty easily, but perhaps not so easily with thoughts.

Much of civilization is built on polite fictions. How comfortable would it be to know the true feelings of one's lover, one's family, one's friends and colleagues? In non-telepathic society, polite people refrain from saying certain things out loud. But it's not so easy to refrain from thinking things out loud. Our notions of what's polite and what's rude would have to undergo dramatic revision.

Politics? What good is carefully-crafted spin if people can read your mind and know what you're really thinking? Politicians might choose to give speeches only via television (assuming people need to be physically present in order to read minds) but then any politician who refused to come out in public would be assumed to be lying.

Would telepathic shields, to enable people to have privacy, be possible? As soon as actual telepaths existed and were discovered, scientists would begin working to understand how telepathy worked. Once it was understood how it worked, it might be possible to find ways to prevent it from working. Considering how inconvenient the existence of telepathy would be, this might be a fairly high priority.

But even if ways to thwart telepathy were found, could the toothpaste be put back into the tube? You're telepathic, and your lover begins wearing a telepathic shield -- that allows you not to get upset when your lover has a stray thought about how you've put on weight, or how cute that other person is, but what other secrets are they keeping from you?

Would telepaths seek each other out, rather than associating with non-telepaths? That might be even more uncomfortable. Until dramatically different ways of relating to other people emerged (in which it was okay for people to have embarrassing thoughts about each other) telepaths would probably be socially maladjusted.

A science fiction novel you might enjoy is Dying Inside by Robert Silverberg. While many science fiction stories about telepathy are (like comic books) more interested in telepathy as a super-power, this novel is about the effect of telepathy on an individual who has such an ability. It's a sad story, though, so you might want to wash it down with some more upbeat fantasies.

[Garron]

Why do you have a strong belief in psychic powers? People have been looking for centuries without sucess

Well first I would say read the whole thread. Otherwise, hmmm, well there is simply a limit to human communication. For me to explain why i belive in phycic powers, you would have to be present in me. In other words you would have to be me. You would have to see what i see, think what I have thought, and maybe even done what I did. (in my halucinations, or perception of reality?)

For those of you who have read the whole of this thread, I would like to make this clear. The experiences I have had which have lead me to belive I am phycic have been so numerous and natural by nature that I find it very difficult to beilve that they were halucinations. I find it very difficult to descibe these situation of which I speak, in words. Such is the limitaion of linguistic communication.

To put it another way. I have had some encouters which really didn't make much sence. They were so out of line with normality that I would have to say they were either halucinations (very unlikly due to thier complexity, and my sobriety), incorrect interpretations (very likely, but I dont want to admit that) or I'm phycic :D!

if anyone has direct contact with james randi could you ask him if "black pudding and cottage pie" (I think that was it) means anything to him. I dont envy James's job.

I was thinking about how so many threads get clutered up with junk. I'd just like to say this. Don't attack someone who claims a certain power (or poses thier philophy) just for the sake of making a good attack. That's just hot air, puffing up your ego, belitteling someone and such. All your attacks will do is encourage trolls. You complain about trolls but you give them reason to come back.
If you have a problem with the ideas represented by someones post, you should look into what they were thinking, try to get into thier mind, understand where they were going wrong, and then explain to them where they were wrong, if you can't do this, then just ignore them. Both of these options invove effort (humor them, or ignore them). Any other option will Very likely give unwanted results.

[SFB]

Originally posted by Garron


Well first I would say read the whole thread. Otherwise, hmmm, well there is simply a limit to human communication. For me to explain why i belive in phycic powers, you would have to be present in me. In other words you would have to be me. You would have to see what i see, think what I have thought, and maybe even done what I did. (in my halucinations, or perception of reality?)

For those of you who have read the whole of this thread, I would like to make this clear. The experiences I have had which have lead me to belive I am phycic have been so numerous and natural by nature that I find it very difficult to beilve that they were halucinations. I find it very difficult to descibe these situation of which I speak, in words. Such is the limitaion of linguistic communication.

To put it another way. I have had some encouters which really didn't make much sence. They were so out of line with normality that I would have to say they were either halucinations (very unlikly due to thier complexity, and my sobriety), incorrect interpretations (very likely, but I dont want to admit that) or I'm phycic :D!

if anyone has direct contact with james randi could you ask him if "black pudding and cottage pie" (I think that was it) means anything to him. I dont envy James's job.

I was thinking about how so many threads get clutered up with junk. I'd just like to say this. Don't attack someone who claims a certain power (or poses thier philophy) just for the sake of making a good attack. That's just hot air, puffing up your ego, belitteling someone and such. All your attacks will do is encourage trolls. You complain about trolls but you give them reason to come back.
If you have a problem with the ideas represented by someones post, you should look into what they were thinking, try to get into thier mind, understand where they were going wrong, and then explain to them where they were wrong, if you can't do this, then just ignore them. Both of these options invove effort (humor them, or ignore them). Any other option will Very likely give unwanted results.

At what point in this consideration of your experiences then, does one consider you a loon? I am serious here, and ask you to describe your state of mind, and the extent to which one should tolerate this.

You, if anyone, attacked me! You are free to post here, I am free to respond.

The history of psychics (in the broadest sense) supports one conclusion, and history of mankind supports that conclusion, convince me otherwise as you have not done.

I have read this entire thread. Are you familiar with the Swift articles? Are you of sane mind? Have you visited the Paranormal threads?

Glee posted, and you quoted: "Why do you have a strong belief in psychic powers? People have been looking for centuries without sucess"

If you read your thread you'll see your answers to Glee not answered.

You make no sense, provide no evidence, and wonder whether you have psychic powers.

That is, as of yet, not worthy of consideration, because you challenge, on the grounds of anecdotal evidence, and nothing else. Yes, please make a challenge with Randi. It may cost you, so go ahead and use that as an excuse.

Have you made any effort to apply for the reward? You have to get yourself to Florida - but surely you can afford it, with the MILLION you'll have.

Bank on a psychologist or travel to Florida is my recommendation.

[glee]

Originally posted by glee
Why do you have a strong belief in psychic powers? People have been looking for centuries without success.


Originally posted by Garron
Well first I would say read the whole thread. Otherwise, hmmm, well there is simply a limit to human communication. For me to explain why i belive in phycic powers, you would have to be present in me. In other words you would have to be me. You would have to see what i see, think what I have thought, and maybe even done what I did. (in my halucinations, or perception of reality?)

For those of you who have read the whole of this thread, I would like to make this clear. The experiences I have had which have lead me to belive I am phycic have been so numerous and natural by nature that I find it very difficult to beilve that they were halucinations. I find it very difficult to descibe these situation of which I speak, in words. Such is the limitaion of linguistic communication.

To put it another way. I have had some encouters which really didn't make much sence. They were so out of line with normality that I would have to say they were either halucinations (very unlikly due to thier complexity, and my sobriety), incorrect interpretations (very likely, but I dont want to admit that) or I'm phycic :D!...


So your entire case rests on some personal anecdotal experiences. No scientific proof at all.
I'm not trying to upset you, but there are thousands of people who claim to have been abducted by aliens.
Millions of people believe in astrology.
There's no corroborating evidence for either of these beliefs either - so I ask you again why you think it's not far more likely that you are mistaken, misunderstanding behaviour (or possibly even hallucinating)?

Originally posted by Garron
If you have a problem with the ideas represented by someones post, you should look into what they were thinking, try to get into thier mind, understand where they were going wrong, and then explain to them where they were wrong, if you can't do this, then just ignore them. Both of these options invove effort (humor them, or ignore them). Any other option will Very likely give unwanted results.

I've read the thread, and posted politely on it.
I'm accepting that you have had some experiences that you found hard to believe using current scientific knowledge.
I did indeed give a normal explanation of some of your experiences, but you didn't seem to accept it.

You posted yourself that you have some difficulties in your life. I hope you sort them out. But you must see that saying "I didn't explain correctly" or "I was so rude to potential witnesses that they wouldn't even discuss my evidence" is not very convincing.
Neither is saying "what if?" - which scientists do all the time. (However they go on to do scientific observations, tests and publish testable hypotheses, which lead to scientific advances.)

[sadluxation]

Just a small note to say that if anyone would like to partake in the JREF prize in the U.K. I can find some people (one being Nick P) who would be willing to do the preliminary testing.

You can PM me, and the info will be sent to the testing fairy.

[psiphi]

Garron:

In case you didn't receive my PM please email me. I have two of the same abilities and am going through the same self doubt of sanity.

Please reply, we could help each other.

Regards,:)

[psiphi]

Dear Garron:

I can appreciate your frustration and self-doubt. I have been dealing with exactly the same psychic experiences for seven years. I thought I was losing my mind, too, but I'm not. It is all too real.

I would very much like to correspond with you. You can email me at Waldo_psi1@ yahoo.com.

I look forward to hearing from you.

Best regards, :)