Cuba executes ferry hijackers

[renata]

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030411/wl_nm/cuba_executions_dc_3



HAVANA (Reuters) - Cuba executed three hijackers on Friday who commandeered a Havana ferry last week in hopes of reaching the United States, the government said in a statement.

An official statement said the hijackers had been tried and convicted and their appeals rejected by the Supreme Court and Council of State. They were put to death on Friday morning.

The statement did not give the form of execution but Cuba generally uses a firing squad.

Four other hijackers were sentenced to life in prison, one to 30 years, and three women to prison terms ranging from two to five years, the government statement said.

The ferry, with 50 passengers aboard, was hijacked by a band of armed man on April 2, but ran out of fuel on the way, and was towed back to Cuba where the group was captured and hostages freed unharmed. Only one of the hijackers had a gun, while the rest were armed with knives.



Hijacking was April 2, execution April 11. I wonder what kind of legal representations these guys got.

I have no love of hijackers of any stripe, but this, along with recent arrests and hefty sentences of dissenters makes me really worried.


I wonder the the way US dealt with Iraq makes Castro nervous, and has him tighten the screws on his people. I also wonder whether the other potential US "targets" -North Korea, Syria, etc will seriously crack down on dissent. And, finally, I am sure we will soon see a UN resolution and massive street protests by human rights groups.

[Denise]

It would be nice if Castro would just die already.

[Mel]

Originally posted by renata
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/nm/20030411/wl_nm/cuba_executions_dc_3




Hijacking was April 2, execution April 11. I wonder what kind of legal representations these guys got.

I have no love of hijackers of any stripe, but this, along with recent arrests and hefty sentences of dissenters makes me really worried.


I wonder the the way US dealt with Iraq makes Castro nervous, and has him tighten the screws on his people. I also wonder whether the other potential US "targets" -North Korea, Syria, etc will seriously crack down on dissent. And, finally, I am sure we will soon see a UN resolution and massive street protests by human rights groups.

Maybe it's a clever ploy by Castro? Push the USA's buttons so the NEXT time a hijacked plane or boat enters this country we won't send them home too quickly?

[renata]

Originally posted by Denise
It would be nice if Castro would just die already.

I think he has a younger brother, as a desginated successor. Fidel is 77, and Raul is a spirited 75.

[Segnosaur]

I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.

[Mike B.]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.

Silly Segnosaur,

Don't you know Castro being anti-US makes him a folk-hero to leftists, and therefore everything he does is alright...


;)

[hgc]

Segnosaur:
I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.
Are you implying that Americans who oppose capital punishment as policy here would not oppose it in Cuba? Maybe people think it's more important to fight for the right thing here in our own country than focus on domestic policy in other countries. Who knows?

But the point is moot. This story just broke an hour ago. Why do you wonder why you haven't heard an outcry? Sounds like a rhetorical question on your part. And a false dilemma, or some damned fallacy.

[Mel]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.

Good question. It sure IS annoying when the world holds us to a higher standard.

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.

Answer:

A cop finds a drunk man in a parking lot late at night, searching the ground under the only street light in that parking lot. He asks what the guy is doing, and the drunk replies that he dropped his carkeys and is looking for them. Asked where he was when he dropped the keys, the drunk waves towards a car in the darkness. Asked why he's searching under the street light, he says that if the keys are actually over in the darkness, he'd never find them anyway.

[WildCat]

Originally posted by hgc

Are you implying that Americans who oppose capital punishment as policy here would not oppose it in Cuba? Maybe people think it's more important to fight for the right thing here in our own country than focus on domestic policy in other countries. Who knows?

But the point is moot. This story just broke an hour ago. Why do you wonder why you haven't heard an outcry? Sounds like a rhetorical question on your part. And a false dilemma, or some damned fallacy.
Don't hold your breath waiting for the "Free Mumia" crowd to get all worked up over this one. Castro's one of theirs.

Edited to add: I'm not saying everyone (or even more than a small number) opposed to capital punishment are of this crowd, but they seem to be the ones doing the demonstrating. I know from the experience here in Illinois how flawed the death penalty can be.

[hgc]

WildCat:

Don't hold your breath waiting for the "Free Mumia" crowd to get all worked up over this one. Castro's one of theirs.
That's a diversion. The "Free Mumia" crowd is not a fair representation of the anti-capital punishment crowd. My implied complaint to Segnosaur is the lack of outcry (besides him not waiting a decent interval) about this thing in Cuba has no bearing on the arguments against capital punishment. It's just more political posturing on his part.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by hgc

Are you implying that Americans who oppose capital punishment as policy here would not oppose it in Cuba? Maybe people think it's more important to fight for the right thing here in our own country than focus on domestic policy in other countries. Who knows?

Not necessarily just Americans... People in Europe like to point to capital punishment in America as 'barbaric'. (Many europeans on this board have that attitude too.)

[hgc]

Segnosaur:

Not necessarily just Americans... People in Europe like to point to capital punishment in America as 'barbaric'. (Many europeans on this board have that attitude too.)
So what? What matters about capital punishment in America is what we think. Do you think what they did in Cuba is barbaric? I bet you have an opinion. I know I think it stinks. But why would you think your opinion about it is any more relevant to Cubans than Euros' opinions about us is relevant to you?

[Cain]

I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.

Silliness. I oppose state sanctioned executions in any and every country that continue to maintain the barbaric practice. Does that mean death penalty opponents rush to post their views on the James Randi message board *every time* some government murders another one of its own citizens? I think not.

In terms of protest and the expression of dissent, there's a slight difference between foreign and domestic executions: (semi)-democratic societies concede some control to the citizen population. I'm a citizen of the U.S. and it's my responsibility as a human being who strives for basic decency to speak out against crimes committed by my government, which supposedly represents and acts in my interests. I'm not a citizen of Russia, so crimes in Chechnya do not capture my attention the same way as proportionate U.S. atrocities would (though those crimes should be highlighted and dealt with).

This is just a political cheap shot. Ask any anti-death penalty person residing in the U.S. if they approve of these recent murders. Ah, but it's always better to highlight some phantom hypocrisy than confront the issue in a more direct, honest manner.

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Not necessarily just Americans... People in Europe like to point to capital punishment in America as 'barbaric'. (Many europeans on this board have that attitude too.)

Ever wonder about those East German soldiers who shot people as they tried to escape over the wall? Why there were no demonstrations in West Europe?

[hgc]

And by the way, the pro-capital punishment crowd is always calling for faster, faster, faster executions, and for a wider variety of crimes. You guys should be very impressed by the way they do it in Cuba.

[hgc]

Supercharts:

Ever wonder about those East German soldiers who shot people as they tried to escape over the wall? Why there were no demonstrations in West Europe?
The level of ignorance displayed in this post is astounding. What kind of demonstration of western Europe's feelings can match the fact that they were glad to have the might of the American military protecting them against that kind of life for the duration of the cold war.

[Gregor]

Wait - People leaving Cuba?

Cuba is a socialist paradise. They have free health care, dammit.

It's what Berkeley CA would be if it had the chance. Who'd want to leave paradise? There must be something wrong, here.

Let's see Janeen (sp?) Garafalo, one of the knuckle-headed Baldwin clan, or Tim Robins protest about Cuba. Not likely.

[Tricky]

Cuba is a place where people are allowed no freedom of expression, the government controls every aspect of your life, questioning the government is forbidden, and crime is almost non-existant due to the severity of punishment. In short, it is John Ashcroft's dream world.

[Tony]

Originally posted by Tricky
Cuba is a place where people are allowed no freedom of expression, the government controls every aspect of your life, questioning the government is forbidden, and crime is almost non-existant due to the severity of punishment. In short, it is John Ashcroft's dream world.


http://www.rr-bb.com/images/smilies/tinfoil3.gif Your tinfoil hat is falling off.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by hgc

So what? What matters about capital punishment in America is what we think. Do you think what they did in Cuba is barbaric? I bet you have an opinion. I know I think it stinks. But why would you think your opinion about it is any more relevant to Cubans than Euros' opinions about us is relevant to you?

Hold on, wait a sec... I'm not trying to turn this into some sort of global debate on political influence.

I made an obervation (nothing more or nothing less)... That many of the same people that praise Cuba also condem the U.S. for its 'barbaric' practices. I'm not suggesting going to war, or droppng a MOAB on Havana or assasinating people with those opinions. It was an observation; hopefully if someone ever gets into a debate with someone who loves Cuba and Castro, but hates the US will remember this event.

My opinion about capital punishment does not matter in this case, since the inconsistency of opinions, not whether capital punishment is right or not.

Actually, I am Canadian, where we don't have capital punishment, so I have even less relevance than anyone in the US or Cuba. I do believe that capital punishment is a good idea, for crimes which warrant it (serial killers, as probably the best example) and for which their is ample proof that the person charged truly is guilty. I do not believe that this particular case (hijack, with no loss of life) warrants the death penalty in any country.

[hgc]

Segnosaur:

Hold on, wait a sec... I'm not trying to turn this into some sort of global debate on political influence.
You brought the Europeans into this thread, not me.

I made an obervation (nothing more or nothing less)... That many of the same people that praise Cuba also condem the U.S. for its 'barbaric' practices. I'm not suggesting going to war, or droppng a MOAB on Havana or assasinating people with those opinions. It was an observation; hopefully if someone ever gets into a debate with someone who loves Cuba and Castro, but hates the US will remember this event.
Well let me quote your "observation."
I wonder why there isn't the anti-capital punishment outcry in this case that you normally hear whenever capital punishment in the US is discussed.
It looks more like a rhetorical question creating a false dilemma that anti-cap.pun. people don't care about what happens to people in Cuba. I'm opposed to cap.pun. here in my country, and I also hate the oppression under which Cubans have lived for the last 40 years -- especially when it comes to swift summary trials and immediate executions. So there's your protest. You think anti-cap.pun. people like Cuba? Show me the evidence.
My opinion about capital punishment does not matter in this case, since the inconsistency of opinions, not whether capital punishment is right or not.

Actually, I am Canadian, where we don't have capital punishment, so I have even less relevance than anyone in the US or Cuba. I do believe that capital punishment is a good idea, for crimes which warrant it (serial killers, as probably the best example) and for which their is ample proof that the person charged truly is guilty. I do not believe that this particular case (hijack, with no loss of life) warrants the death penalty in any country.
I'm sorry I didn't notice in your profile that you're Canadian. I can just imagine what a Canadian execution would look like .. having one of those giant pancakes dropped on you from the CN tower? :D

[Tricky]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

I made an obervation (nothing more or nothing less)... That many of the same people that praise Cuba also condem the U.S. for its 'barbaric' practices. I'm not suggesting going to war, or droppng a MOAB on Havana or assasinating people with those opinions. It was an observation; hopefully if someone ever gets into a debate with someone who loves Cuba and Castro, but hates the US will remember this event.

Yeah, it's a pity you can't find any of those brainless liberals around here. Most of us insist on seeing all sides of an issue.:cool:

Cuba is a terrible, impoverished, repressive place to live. I cannot blame people for wanting to escape. Of course, all questions are not black and white. Cuba also has great education and pretty good medical care. In my opinion, that is not enough of a reason to "Love Cuba and Castro". I do, however, think that we should normalize relations with them. They are certainly not the only repressive government that we do business with. In fact, when you deal with repressive countries, they are allowed to see what freedom is like. It is a powerful message. (My personal opinion is that the reason Russian communism collapsed is so they could get Levi's.;))

If we hadn't cut off relations with Cuba in the sixties, they would probably be our 51st state by now. :D

[Bearguin]

Originally posted by hgc
I'm sorry I didn't notice in your profile that you're Canadian. I can just imagine what a Canadian execution would look like .. having one of those giant pancakes dropped on you from the CN tower? :D

???????????

Maybe death by back bacon, but what giant pancakes???

[hgc]

Gods Advocate:

???????????

Maybe death by back bacon, but what giant pancakes???
Thank you thank you thank you. Every time Canada is mentioned in the forums, I throw in a crack about giant pancakes, just to see if anyone is paying attention. It's about time we blew the lid off this sucker. And I mean man-hole lid. That's the approximate size and weight of a Canadian pancake. They're making such big pancakes, they're about to run out of quadrotriticale. They use more maple syrup yearly than the oil reserves of Iraq just to choke down their dose of pancakes.

Where's the pro-kill-Mumia crowd when it comes to Canadian giant pancake abuse?

[Bearguin]

Who are??

I have no idea what the cr@p you're talking about. Granted I love to soak pancakes in true Quebec maple syrup, my pancakes ar no bigger than any others I've seen.

Biggest food difference our countries have is we put flavour and alcohol in our beer ;)

[NoZed Avenger]

Originally posted by hgc
And by the way, the pro-capital punishment crowd is always calling for faster, faster, faster executions, and for a wider variety of crimes. You guys should be very impressed by the way they do it in Cuba.

Absolutely. Every person that believes 14 years of appeals is too long would just love to put all of the accused into a large bus and drive them off a cliff onto jagged rocks filled with baby seals within minutes of an arrest, with no chance for a trial. Watch - they'll deny it, but we all know the truth.


NA

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by hgc

You brought the Europeans into this thread, not me.

Yes, but only in response to a statement you made about people only protesting where they could have an influence (i.e. in their own country) and not protesting Cuban actions because, well, the protests would have no value.

I was just pointing out a large group of people who could not influence anything (the Europeans), who criticize the US but who often like Cuba.

Originally posted by hgc

It looks more like a rhetorical question creating a false dilemma that anti-cap.pun. people don't care about what happens to people in Cuba. I'm opposed to cap.pun. here in my country, and I also hate the oppression under which Cubans have lived for the last 40 years -- especially when it comes to swift summary trials and immediate executions. So there's your protest. You think anti-cap.pun. people like Cuba? Show me the evidence.

I'm sure there are plenty of people who share your views (hate both capital punishment, and hate Castro.) There may even be people who are for capital punishment, and are for Castro.

My observation/comments were directed at the people who have made many anti-US capital punishment statements, yet fail to criticize Cuba for the same actions (or worse). (They many not agree with what Cuba did, but they don't feel its important enough to make a point of it.)

Now, to try to go sort though postings to try to find Castro supporters who also criticize the death penalty would take more time than I have. I could see someone along the lines of AUP (whom I believe accused Bush of murdering people in Texas), or UCE, or Q-Source, who criticize the US regularly, but who also think Cuba is a nice country with plenty of human rights. (My apologies in advance to any of the 3 if they actually have criticized cap. punishment in Cuba, or agree with it applied in the US.)

Originally posted by hgc

I'm sorry I didn't notice in your profile that you're Canadian. I can just imagine what a Canadian execution would look like .. having one of those giant pancakes dropped on you from the CN tower? :D
That's ok. I'm a bit ashamed to be Canadian right now.

We used to use hanging back when we had capital punishment. Personally, I think they should be beaten with hockey sticks and then knawed to death by beavers.

[hgc]

Gods Advocate:
Who are??

I have no idea what the cr@p you're talking about. Granted I love to soak pancakes in true Quebec maple syrup, my pancakes ar no bigger than any others I've seen.

Biggest food difference our countries have is we put flavour and alcohol in our beer ;)
Well, the few times I've been to Canada, they must have hidden them under the mattresses. But there was a short-lived restaurant chain in NYC called The Royal Canadian Pancake House (or something like that -- I know it had "Canadian" in the title). They had these obscenely huge pancakes -- like if you order a plate of pancakes for yourself, and didn't know what to expect, you'd get this plate of 3 pancakes, each of which could feed a family of four. I AM NOT EXAGGERATING. I bet it's a Yukon thing. That's why you're not clued in.

[Khalid01]

Originally posted by Supercharts


Ever wonder about those East German soldiers who shot people as they tried to escape over the wall? Why there were no demonstrations in West Europe?
Oh, of course it was because those Eurotrash were a bunch of leftist oppression-lovers I mean there was only the entire soviet bloc on the other side of the wall! If someone just lifted a finger against a nuclear power, everyone would be happy! What I want to know is why those West-Germans were so happy to see the wall fall, they should have been devestated!

What would protesting have accomplished anyhow? At the most there might have been a mention of it in the UN, but that's probably all.
:rolleyes:

[Bearguin]

Originally posted by Segnosaur
That's ok. I'm a bit ashamed to be Canadian right now.

We used to use hanging back when we had capital punishment. Personally, I think they should be beaten with hockey sticks and then knawed to death by beavers.

Don't be ashamed to be Canadian, just be ashamed of our Government.

And on the death penalty, I'm still against it in principle. I just worry that David Milgaard and others would have been executed for crimes they did not commit and doubt there will ever be a 100% fool-proof system. I agree that some in Canada have deserved it, but the price (possibly executing an innocent) is too high for me.

I think we should force them to live in Northern Sasketchewan in a big compound where they fend for themselves.

[Segnosaur]

Originally posted by Gods Advocate


Don't be ashamed to be Canadian, just be ashamed of our Government.

Its too easy to say that.

But the fact is, if an election were held today, opinion polls Cretien would become Prime Minister again. (Yes, he would not get 50%+1 of the overall vote, but then again, a lot of Canadians would vote for parties like the Bloc). The more he screws up, the higher his popularity gets.

We Canadians (as a group) are either too stupid or too apathetic to know what is wrong with the government and be willing to fix it.

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Denise
It would be nice if Castro would just die already.

You are so sweet :rolleyes:

Following your reasoning, I think it would be a good idea to kill all poor people in order to get rid of poverty :rolleyes:

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Now, to try to go sort though postings to try to find Castro supporters who also criticize the death penalty would take more time than I have. I could see someone along the lines of AUP (whom I believe accused Bush of murdering people in Texas), or UCE, or Q-Source, who criticize the US regularly, but who also think Cuba is a nice country with plenty of human rights. (My apologies in advance to any of the 3 if they actually have criticized cap. punishment in Cuba, or agree with it applied in the US.)

So...Segnosaur, I see that now that you don't have any valid arguments to defend, you resort to lies...

Coming from you, I am not surprised at all.


That's ok. I'm a bit ashamed to be Canadian right now.


Edited to delete an offense. I don't want to bite that again.

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by renata


Hijacking was April 2, execution April 11. I wonder what kind of legal representations these guys got.



Probably the same as the detainees in Guantanamo Bay are getting.

[LW]

Originally posted by Segnosaur

Not necessarily just Americans... People in Europe like to point to capital punishment in America as 'barbaric'. (Many europeans on this board have that attitude too.)

I'm from Europe. I'm against the death penalty. You haven't seen me protesting this Cuban execution because as a rule I don't go around protesting against things.