Creating pdf files

[SezMe]

I am the editor of a newsletter that I create in WordPerfect (Version 11) and then "publish to pdf." This functionality is not working too well and I am looking for alternatives and would appreciate any comments you might have.

The first alternative that I tried was Adobe's own on-line conversion tool. I tried one issue of my newsletter with it and it worked fine and created a small file. By small, I mean about 20(!) times smaller than the one WordPerfect created. Of course, one problem with this site is that it costs $$$$.

I next looked at several pdf conversion tools, and didn't find any particular problems but the file sizes were only about half the size of the WordPerfect-generated files. Since the newsletter is posted on-line, file size is an important consideration.

So I finally looked at PageMaker itself. It is quite expensive (US$500) and is reputed to have a very steep learning curve. Do you have any experience with PageMaker? Is it hard to learn?

Are there alternatives to PageMaker? If so, what are the advantages and disadvantages.

Do you have experience with any conversion tools that create small pdf files?

...and any other comments are welcome.... thanks.

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by SezMe
Do you have experience with any conversion tools that create small pdf files?


You might try OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/), an open-source office suite that handles exporting to PDF. There's also Scribus (http://www.scribus.org.uk/), an open-source DTP program wich can export to PDF.

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Leif Roar
You might try OpenOffice (http://www.openoffice.org/), an open-source office suite that handles exporting to PDF. There's also Scribus (http://www.scribus.org.uk/), an open-source DTP program wich can export to PDF.
Thanks, Leif, but I am dubious about using any "export" tool. I suspect these tools are just printer drivers supplied by Adobe and can be incorporated into any word processor. If this is true, there is no advantage to the programs you cite. I would have to learn them but then would be subject to the same export limitations. Unless you know that these word processors have some inherent advantage over WordPerfect or any other such tool in regard to the "export to pdf" capability.

[Donks]

I'm not sure if you have tried this (from your printer driver comment I gues you might have), but here goes anyway. You could do a print to file with a postscript printer (you don't need to have the printer, just the drivers) then convert the ps to pdf using any free online conversion tool (such as this one (http://www.ps2pdf.com/convert/convert.htm) ), or download Ghostscrpt or somesuch.

[Zep]

I use Ghostscript with GSview as the front end. Works very well, but with a few limitations, the most obvious of which are the lack of HTTP links (they just get shown as links, no more), and no real ability to create bookmarks or similar. It is also a multi-step process to create PDF's. It's a very basic tool, but is small, efficient, and works neatly, but best of all it's FREE.

PM me if you want details.

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by SezMe
Thanks, Leif, but I am dubious about using any "export" tool. I suspect these tools are just printer drivers supplied by Adobe and can be incorporated into any word processor.

I believe the PDF functionality in OpenOffice is native to the application, but I could be wrong. Anyway, OpenOffice can import WordPerfect files, so it would be easy to check if it answers your needs.

[Zep]

SezMe, the Ghostscript tool as recommended by Donks and myself will actually convert any Windows printed output, not just WP stuff. You can use your favourite WP package or indeed any wizzo app you like, and still have the printed output converted to PDF. I have converted Powerpoints, spreadsheets, Visio pages, Photoshop images, etc, etc, not just WP (in my case, Word).

[Kevin_Lowe]

If you have access to an Apple computer, any OSX application can export directly to pdf via the Print menu.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

SezMe said:
I am the editor of a newsletter that I create in WordPerfect (Version 11) and then "publish to pdf." This functionality is not working too well and I am looking for alternatives and would appreciate any comments you might have.
What do you mean by "not working too well"? Is it just that the PDF files are large, or are there other problems?

Apropos to what Donks said, have you tried generating PostScript and then directly distilling it with Acrobat Distiller?

You might look into Framemaker. I wouldn't use Word or WordPerfect to produce anything larger than a letter.

~~ Paul

[Beanbag]

I use a free utility called CutePDF to generate PDF files. It installs as a windows printer and print to it using the print function from whatever application you're running. So far, it's worked for every Windows application I've tried.

The good news is that it's free, and it doesn't add any watermarks or advertisements to your PDF file.

You can find it here: http://www.cutepdf.com/products/CutePDF/writer.asp

You have to install a copy of Ghostscript to make it work, but you get it with the download.

Beanbag

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
What do you mean by "not working too well"? Is it just that the PDF files are large, or are there other problems?

Apropos to what Donks said, have you tried generating PostScript and then directly distilling it with Acrobat Distiller?

You might look into Framemaker. I wouldn't use Word or WordPerfect to produce anything larger than a letter.

~~ Paul
Yeah, that was a big vague ... on purpose. I cannot define a specific problem. Usually it is that pagination in the source document and the converted pdf is different.

But not always. The problem last month that finally convinced me to look for alternatives was totally different than others I've had. The newsletter is 8 pages, the bottom half of the last page being the place where the address label goes. After the newsletter is finished, I run it through a mail merge and end up with file containing ~150 copies of the newsletter. I then converted this to pdf. The result: every other copy had a blank page 7!!

No I have not tried the PostScript approach. Why do you think that might produce a better result? And why Framemaker instead of Pagemaker?

Thanks for the ideas, Paul.

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Kevin_Lowe
If you have access to an Apple computer, any OSX application can export directly to pdf via the Print menu.
I do have access to an Apple through a friend and, in fact, tried that route over the weekend. I sent her a 2 page press release in Word format which she converted to pdf. It reverses the pages, putting page 2 first!! Ugh. I'm not inclined to pursue this avenue any further.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

SezMe said:
Yeah, that was a big vague ... on purpose. I cannot define a specific problem. Usually it is that pagination in the source document and the converted pdf is different.
Ah, well that's because What You See Is What You Get (WYSIWYG) is a lie.

Anyhoo, if you print the document and it looks right, then you should be able to print it to a PostScript printer in "print to file" mode to capture the PostScript. I would think that converting the PostScript to a PDF (with any tool you like) would give you the correct results.

Framemaker seems to be pretty good. You could also try Quark or InDesign. I don't use any of these products myself, so I have no strong recommendation.

~~ Paul

[epepke]

Originally posted by SezMe
I do have access to an Apple through a friend and, in fact, tried that route over the weekend. I sent her a 2 page press release in Word format which she converted to pdf. It reverses the pages, putting page 2 first!! Ugh. I'm not inclined to pursue this avenue any further.

This is almost certainly due to a setting to print the pages in reverse order, which most people do with physical printers, because they like to pick up a stack of pages that come out of the printer face-up.

But I guess clicking a single check box is just too hard, if it's on a Mac. Icky icky poo, icky poo poo icky.

[SezMe]

A quickie update.

Apparently the idea of printing to a PostScript printer works ... depending on how you define "works." (No, I do not work for Clinton).

It did handle the "missing Page 7" problem I mentioned earlier but OH, MY GAWD, the file size would choke a hippo! Since, as I mentioned, this newsletter is posted online for download, file size is relevant so I don't think that PostScript printing is going to be a good solution.

I am now looking at two alternatives. First, Zep is going to send me his proposed solution - thanks, Zep - and I will give it a try.

Second, I am going to give NitroPDF (http://www.nitropdf.com) a look-see. Maybe it is a poor-man's Pagemaker/Framemaker. It has a 30-day free trial.

For this month (which I am working on right now when I am not diddling my time away here) I will probably try CutePDf.

Thanks a lot for the help so far.

[Donks]

Originally posted by SezMe

It did handle the "missing Page 7" problem I mentioned earlier but OH, MY GAWD, the file size would choke a hippo! Since, as I mentioned, this newsletter is posted online for download, file size is relevant so I don't think that PostScript printing is going to be a good solution.
I'm unsure if you then converted the ps file to pdf, because that will reduce the filesize.

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Donks
I'm unsure if you then converted the ps file to pdf, because that will reduce the filesize.
It did, but not below the original source file size. And certainly not below the file size generated by my (however flawed) "publish to pdf" file size.

IOW (at this stage) "publishing to pdf" from WordPerfect creates large files that have flaws. OTOH, printing to ps then converting to pdf creates (apparently) correct files that are so large as to be useless.

Sigh.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

SezMe, stop making us pull out your teeth. :D

How large are the raw images in the document?

How large is the resulting PDF file?


~~ Paul

[SezMe]

In a typical newsletter there are probably 5-6 images. Most are around 400K, a few might be up to a Meg.

The whole newsletter ranges in size from ~1.5 Megs to over 12 Megs. After I run the mail merge, the file is over 500 Megs.

I didn't keep all the test files, but here (from memory) are the results of playing around with one issue which was almost exactly 2 Megs.

Convert using Adobe's online tool: 440K
Using WordPerfect's export: ~ 3 Megs
Print to ps then convert: ~4 Megs
Using CutPDF and other such freeware: ~1 Meg to over ~5 Megs

Best I can do for right now - I gotta go take care of a toothache. :)

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Mail merge? You mean you're replicating the newsletter for each recipient? Why?

How large is the PostScript file that you export from WordPerfect?

With a reasonable distiller program you should be able to control the level of compression that is applied to the images.

I just distilled a 136-meg PostScript file with Acrobat Distiller and the result is 36 megs. That is with no lossy compression at all.

~~ Paul

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Mail merge? You mean you're replicating the newsletter for each recipient? Why?
Because I don't know any other way to do individual addressing. It does seem very duplicative. Do you know of a better method?

How large is the PostScript file that you export from WordPerfect?
I don't know ... I didn't keep it.

I don't know anything about Acrobat distiller. When I finish here, I'll go take a look.

[Donks]

Originally posted by SezMe
Because I don't know any other way to do individual addressing. It does seem very duplicative. Do you know of a better method?
If you're only using this to send the newsletters individually, you can use BCC isntead. Put your email address in the To field, and the whole list of recipients in the BCC field. They won't see who else gets the newsletter. If you are doing it for the personalized touch of a form letter then I can't help :p

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Yes, tell us why you're duplicating it. Is this thing emailed or printed? Are you merging just a name and address, or more information?

~~ Paul

[SezMe]

It gets distributed three ways:

1. A single, addressless and slightly modified version goes up on the organizations web site (http://SantaBarbaraHumanists.org). We have an e-mail list who get notified when the newsletter is available each month.

2. A single, addressless but unmodified version is sent as an e-mail attachment for those who have signed up for that option.

3. The mail merge copies are sent via snail mail. I use a query in an Access database to generate the raw merge data then use WordPerfects ODBC interface to pull that data into a lengthy WordPerfect script that formats the data. Basically, Paul, it is just address information but processing the names is a bit complicated because we have both single and joint members and their names appear differently on the label.

I put this file on a CD and take it to Kinko's for printing, collating and folding.

All three types of delivery involve conversion of three different files to pdf.

Including all three types of distribution, we probably generate about 150 copies per month, 12 months of the year. If there is a better, easier way to do this, I am all ears. I'd sure like to simplify the process myself but I don't know how...except that I am trying to get more and more people to convert from snail mail to electronic distribution.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Why don't you let Kinko's address them, too? Then you wouldn't have to do the merge and replicate the document. Just give them a csv file with the address info.

~~ Paul

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Why don't you let Kinko's address them, too? Then you wouldn't have to do the merge and replicate the document. Just give them a csv file with the address info.

~~ Paul
Great minds run in the same gutter, Paul. I asked them about doing something like this quite a while ago. First I got a blank stare then some mumbling about "we don't do that." So I asked for the manager who said they could do it but it would have to be sent offsite for offset printing which would a) cause an additional delay of 3-4 days and b) would entail a significant cost.

But thanks for reminding me. I think I'll go back and try going higher up the food chain to see if there isn't a better answer.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Offset printing? Okay, now I'm still confused. Are you merging information into the document itself, or just onto a cover letter and/or envelope? If the latter, that's trivial and any reasonable print shop ought to be able to do it.

~~ Paul

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
Offset printing? Okay, now I'm still confused. Are you merging information into the document itself, or just onto a cover letter and/or envelope? If the latter, that's trivial and any reasonable print shop ought to be able to do it.

~~ Paul
The individual labels go right onto the document. That way, we avoid the painful process of stuffing envelopes. Your're right, if it were separate - like an envelope, it would be duck soup and I'd probably do that part on my printer at home.

[Leif Roar]

Originally posted by SezMe
The individual labels go right onto the document. That way, we avoid the painful process of stuffing envelopes. Your're right, if it were separate - like an envelope, it would be duck soup and I'd probably do that part on my printer at home.

A silly question, perhaps, but why don't you just print the labels separately onto address label stickers and then just glue them on to the documents?

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Leif Roar
A silly question, perhaps, but why don't you just print the labels separately onto address label stickers and then just glue them on to the documents?
Not silly at all. That is, in fact, what we do now. But when I became editor, I was looking for ways to streamline the production process and eliminating the labels was one obvious candidate.

Given all the hassles, manual labeling may be the final solution that we adopt. But, being somewhat of a techie, I'd like to find a more satisfying, "high-tech" solution. In fact, this is partly what motivated me to post here in the search for such a solution.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

SezMe said:
The individual labels go right onto the document. That way, we avoid the painful process of stuffing envelopes. Your're right, if it were separate - like an envelope, it would be duck soup and I'd probably do that part on my printer at home.
So the document is mailed without any envelope? Does it arrive intact? How is the document bound?

You could probably send a separate cover page document to the printer, along with the address data, and they could merge print the cover page, slap it at the front of the document (now needing only one copy), and mail it.

~~ Paul

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
So the document is mailed without any envelope? Does it arrive intact? How is the document bound?

You could probably send a separate cover page document to the printer, along with the address data, and they could merge print the cover page, slap it at the front of the document (now needing only one copy), and mail it.

~~ Paul
It is folded to be 1/2 of regular (American) paper (8-1/2" x11"), sealed shut with a tiny label, stamped and mailed. I suppose we get one or two a year that get shredded in the postal machines and come back undelivered.

Your other idea has merit Paul ... damn good idea. I'll first have to verify that the additional page does not push the weight of the whole enchilada over the regular 37 cent weight limit. I'll let you know.

[balrog666]

Pagemaker is expensive and doesn't work very well.

CutePDF is cheap and works reliably. And you can download a trial version of CutePDF to check it out.

[scribble]

If you are simply merging data in, printing them off, and mailing them... why make it a PDF at all? Your printer doesn't care, I assure you, and PDF was never created to be "small" or "lightweight". Or easy to edit.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Sure PDFs were designed to be small, at least relative to PostScript files. However, their primary wonderfulness is the embedded fonts.

~~ Paul

[SezMe]

Originally posted by scribble
If you are simply merging data in, printing them off, and mailing them... why make it a PDF at all?
The job is too big for my printer - literally. It gets printed on 11x17 paper which my little HP laserjet 1200 does not handle.
It is printed double-sided, which my printer does not handle. Finally, a complete print run is roughly 300 pages, which would take a loooong time. I use pdf because that is the format my local print shop requires.

[SezMe]

...an update for those who are interested.

I adopted Paul's idea of putting the labels on a separate, 8-1/2x11 sheet used as a "wrapper" for the newsletter itself. This, with some other modifications, worked like a charm this month. Thank you very much for the solid idea, Paul.

This approach allows me to generate only one version of the newsletter, keeps all file sizes to less than 2 Megs, and simplified the production process.

We settled on a hybrid approach to creating the pdfs. First, I use the "publish to pdf" feature of WordPerfect to generate the preliminary pdf. I then ship it off to our webmaster who runs it through a tool called NitroPDF that shrinks the file and fixes some bugs. This final pdf is what is posted for electronic distribution. I can use the "preliminary" version for the print shop since size does not matter.

Thanks again, Paul and Zep and others who contributed. Big help. While the process is not perfect now, it is vastly improved over my previous approach.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

So is your print shop merging the cover sheets, or do you give them a file full of merged pages?

~~ Paul

[Zep]

Not a problem - many hands make light work.

And with a bit of try-it-and-see, you should even be able to leave out the webmaster step, and go straight to finished PDF yourself. I've given you a starter-kit, and there's been lots of suggestions for more professional products.

Now all you need to do is write that Great American Novel... :)

[SezMe]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
So is your print shop merging the cover sheets, or do you give them a file full of merged pages?

~~ Paul
The latter. The form file is just a little graphic for the return address and, of course, the script that generates the addresses themselves. The merge itself, for about 125 people, takes less than a second and the "published pdf" version is less than 2 Megs since it is so simple.

Next month I will be trying Zep's tools and maybe I can simplify the process even more. After that, I'll find a new editor and the process (for me) will have been simplified out of existence. :D

[FreeChile]

Originally posted by SezMe
Thanks, Leif, but I am dubious about using any "export" tool. I suspect these tools are just printer drivers supplied by Adobe and can be incorporated into any word processor. If this is true, there is no advantage to the programs you cite. I would have to learn them but then would be subject to the same export limitations. Unless you know that these word processors have some inherent advantage over WordPerfect or any other such tool in regard to the "export to pdf" capability. Doesn't Acrobat Distiller come with Acrobat Reader, for free. If so you should be able to print anything to it from any Windows App. So you may try using MS Word or some other word processor.
You could even drop LIS (PostScript) files into Distiller and convert those to PDF.

Try other sites that specialize on PDF. They may be of additional information.

PDF Zone (http://www.pdfzone.com)
Planet PDF (http://www.planetpdf.com)
Active PDF (http://www.activepdf.com)

[FreeChile]

Originally posted by SezMe
The latter. The form file is just a little graphic for the return address and, of course, the script that generates the addresses themselves. The merge itself, for about 125 people, takes less than a second and the "published pdf" version is less than 2 Megs since it is so simple.

Next month I will be trying Zep's tools and maybe I can simplify the process even more. After that, I'll find a new editor and the process (for me) will have been simplified out of existence. :D Another possibility is to have another document that simply contains the label information in the right place and have Kinkos reuse the already printed newsletter page where that information goes. This could be done prior to collating. This way you only need one newsletter in your PDF and not the many merged ones. Kinkos would simply be photocopying it, letting them dry, and printing a document of labels over the copies. The labels can be in any WordPerfect format.

However, they may not want to run the pages of pre-printed documents throught their equipment.

[reefpip]

The correct Adobe program for producing PDF files from Wordperfect is Adobe Acrobat, not Adobe Pagemaker. It costs $300 and it is as easy/fast to make PDF files with it as it is to print files. Adobe Pagemaker will make PDF files, but you should only buy that if you want a more powerful program to use to produce your newsletters (and Pagemaker is VERY powerful).

I don't think you can get Distiller for free, but you can produce PDF files without it using the ghostscript group of programs and using a postscript driver (your computer probably comes with one. Just use the apple laserwriter II driver and print to file).


By the way, I myself did buy Adobe Acrobat a while back (I bought the Adobe Publishing collection, actually). Adobe Acrobat is a nice product to have.


And yes, this technique for exporting is basically just using a special print driver. If one considers exactly what a PDF file is and what it is for, this should not come as a surprise.