Pentagon Creating Student Database

[Orwell]

The Defense Department began working yesterday with a private marketing firm to create a database of high school students ages 16 to 18 and all college students to help the military identify potential recruits in a time of dwindling enlistment in some branches. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/washpost/20050623/tc_washpost/pentagon_creating_student_database)

So, what do you think? Preliminaries for a draft, or just your typical run-of-the-mill creep of government into private lives?

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Orwell
The Defense Department began working yesterday with a private marketing firm to create a database of high school students ages 16 to 18 and all college students to help the military identify potential recruits in a time of dwindling enlistment in some branches. (http://news.yahoo.com/s/washpost/20050623/tc_washpost/pentagon_creating_student_database)

So, what do you think? Preliminaries for a draft, or just your typical run-of-the-mill creep of government into private lives?

Preliminariers for a draft? Huh? No, just the opposite I think.

The only thing that surprises me about this article is the lateness of it. The Defense Department has been direct-marketing to American youths for decades.

My oldest son (17) gets junk mail from the Marines, Army, Navy, Air Force and National Guard. I'd guess he gets about five or six peices a month on average. I pass them on to him unopened with the request that he pass them back to me if he has any questions.

[TragicMonkey]

I don't see why this is new or news. The military seemed to know when I was approaching 18: I kept getting reminders to sign up for Selective Service. I don't recall an undue amount of recruitment junk mail, although if it came it would have been buried under the brochures of desperation from lackluster colleges.

I assumed they got my name, address, and age from the DMV, or from my parents' tax forms.

eta: Although come to think of it, my school probably would have been in the easiest position to pass along a list of names and ages to a government agency.

[LostAngeles]

No kidding. They also get the information from the FAFSA.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by LostAngeles
No kidding. They also get the information from the FAFSA.

I thought you already had to have registered before you send in your FAFSA, or they'd not hand out the money? I dimly recall the space that gave options, "check here if you've registered", "check here if you're female", "check here if you're foreign" etc.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
eta: Although come to think of it, my school probably would have been in the easiest position to pass along a list of names and ages to a government agency.

I know our schools do. Are you in Hampton Roads (I've never asked but I notice you're in Virginia). We get junk mail from many sources that seem to know not only who our kids are but what courses they're taking as well. It's a bit disconcerting but not so much that I'm bothered to ask or complain about it.

Which brings me to another pet pieve: PTA fund raising for the purpose of raising funds to have a fund raising. I'm not a member. I do not like them. I think they are a waste of human flesh. I think they are counter-productive. I have opposed their every attempt to recruit me even when they use my kids to do so. I have 'defaced' fund-raising packages sent home with my sons' 'Thrusday-folders' with notes in thick red magic-marker saying 'No Thanks' on every page. But I digresssssssssss.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
I know our schools do. Are you in Hampton Roads (I've never asked but I notice you're in Virginia). We get junk mail from many sources that seem to know not only who our kids are but what courses they're taking as well. It's a bit disconcerting but not so much that I'm bothered to ask or complain about it.

Yep. Chesapeake now, but I graduated high school in Virginia Beach. I didn't get any mail suggesting they knew my courses, but that was eleven years ago, when computers weren't so insidiously pervasive, and the word "profile" didn't have sinister connotations.

Right now the only sinister profile of me that I'm aware of is from Amazon. I foolishly ordered my mother some of her crappy music for her birthday years ago, and still when I log in I get "Our Recommendations For You!" featuring CDs of The Brothers Four and Ryan's Fancy. You'd think their computers would figure out that it's completely impossible for someone to like both The Offspring and The Brothers Four.

[UserGoogol]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
I thought you already had to have registered before you send in your FAFSA, or they'd not hand out the money? I dimly recall the space that gave options, "check here if you've registered", "check here if you're female", "check here if you're foreign" etc.

That's right, but not everyone who fills out the FAFSA has turned eighteen yet. And of course, you only have to register for the draft when you're eligable to do so.

[Orwell]

Sorry, I'm Canadian, I don't know these things. And all the canadian army seems to do is put up a few kiosks in the subway...

Still, I can't help finding this creepy... If the Pentagon has been operating all these years without a central database for recruitment, why are they changing now? Ok, I know it could be because of their recruitment difficulties, but this seems excessive.
The system also gives the Pentagon the right, without notifying citizens, to share the data for numerous uses outside the military, including with law enforcement, state tax authorities and Congress.
Rob Lister, you say that this is just the opposite of being preliminaries for a draft. Why do you say this?

[Otther]

Rob Lister, you say that this is just the opposite of being preliminaries for a draft. Why do you say this? I dunno what he's thinking, but this is clear to me...

1) We probably already have a selective services database, what with all 18 year old males being required to register with them.

2)What would be the purpose of collecting GPAs and study areas in a draft database?

Considering both of those things, it makes more sense that this genuinely is a move to be more effective at recruiting.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by Otther
I dunno what he's thinking, but this is clear to me...

1) We probably already have a selective services database, what with all 18 year old males being required to register with them.

2)What would be the purpose of collecting GPAs and study areas in a draft database?

Considering both of those things, it makes more sense that this genuinely is a move to be more effective at recruiting.

Bravo.

The military markets for employees, just like any other organization that pays what they pay and expects back what they expect. They want the cream of the crop (of what they can afford). This is nothing new. The central database is not new either (Selective Service). The consultancy with marketing firms is certainly not new. Direct marketing is not new. The only new thing I can see is their (the marketing firms) ability to garner specific information regarding courses/training tracks. I'm assuming they are getting this information from school databases whom I know (from the junk mail we receive) provides it to those that ask (and pay?).

Other than that, there is nothing new, so far as I can see.

[DaChew]

If I worked at the Pentagon and I wanted to start a database of kids most suitable for a draft, I wouldn't bother with GPAs and class loads. I'd start with the highest scorers on Doom 3 and Resident Evil.

[Rob Lister]

Originally posted by DaChew
If I worked at the Pentagon and I wanted to start a database of kids most suitable for a draft, I wouldn't bother with GPAs and class loads. I'd start with the highest scorers on Doom 3 and Resident Evil.

Put on your Ironic Hat for a moment. They (the army specifically) had a program in place to do almost exactly that. I think it met with some [well-deserved?] criticism and they nixed it. Someone might have a link to the original articles and marketing. As I remember it, they were marketing games specifically tailored to teaching/evaluating various aspects of combat; everything from trench warfare to strategic planning. I'm old now and this happened like . . . last year or something :) , so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by UserGoogol
That's right, but not everyone who fills out the FAFSA has turned eighteen yet. And of course, you only have to register for the draft when you're eligable to do so.

Also, I believe that if you haven't registered yet, they can do it for you. Or at least they contact SS about it.

I spent several weeks trying to convince Selective Service that I was not a man. On the phone. After I sent them my I.D. I ended up offering to walk in and drop my pants. (Edit: I didn't. But the squirming was fun to hear.)

Bastards.

[Theodore Kurita]

Originally posted by Rob Lister
Put on your Ironic Hat for a moment. They (the army specifically) had a program in place to do almost exactly that. I think it met with some [well-deserved?] criticism and they nixed it. Someone might have a link to the original articles and marketing. As I remember it, they were marketing games specifically tailored to teaching/evaluating various aspects of combat; everything from trench warfare to strategic planning. I'm old now and this happened like . . . last year or something :) , so maybe I'm remembering incorrectly.

Yeah, it was called "America's Army" and it's stil alive:

http://www.americasarmy.com/

In fact, there are so many cheaters in the game now, the Army is threatening to sue individual cheaters in the game.

That, and I'm sick of all the junk mail from the army, navy, etc. I've been getting ever since I played that game 3 years ago.

[Yahweh]

Originally posted by LostAngeles
I spent several weeks trying to convince Selective Service that I was not a man. On the phone. After I sent them my I.D. I ended up offering to walk in and drop my pants. (Edit: I didn't. But the squirming was fun to hear.)
Just think how quickly you could have been through it all if you had just said "I kiss dudes".

[LostAngeles]

Originally posted by Yahweh
Just think how quickly you could have been through it all if you had just said "I kiss dudes".

Hey, if they start drafting women before my birthday, I'm using it as an excuse to pick up the cutie from my Anthro class.

"I kiss girls" will be just as good now.