Eat This One Apologists

[Johnny Pneumatic]

This Bible flaw was discovered by me. Not even the Skeptic's Annotated Bible has an entry on it, top that!

Here it is:

Rev. 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

There aren't slaves anymore, at least not legal slaves(sure there's illegal sex-slaves in Thailand). Chariots are hardly common-place transportation any longer either.

[crimresearch]

Can't speak to chariots, or Biblical inaccuracies, but you are not up to speed on the widespread slavery in the world today, both legal, and illegal.


Didn't somebody in the Bible say something about 'These you will have with you always'?

http://www.infoplease.com/spot/slavery1.html

http://www.iabolish.com/

http://www.freetheslaves.net/

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/hp/content/moderndayslavery

http://www.antislavery.org/homepage/antislavery/modern.htm

[Johnny Pneumatic]

Those links you gave are about slavery that's illegal. Murder and rape are illegal, they happen though. You want to give some proof about official legal slavery(not hidden because it's criminal in said country) in a UN nation?

[LW]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
There aren't slaves anymore, at least not legal slaves(sure there's illegal sex-slaves in Thailand). Chariots are hardly common-place transportation any longer either.

Simple answer: when the end times come, slavery and chariots are again in vogue.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
Those links you gave are about slavery that's illegal. Murder and rape are illegal, they happen though. You want to give some proof about official legal slavery(not hidden because it's criminal in said country) in a UN nation?

More research might lead to a different conclusion.

When a government condones slavery, that effectively makes it legal, no matter what may be written on an unused statute. Legal, as in, the systems acts to make sure that victims have no legal recourse.

"Slavery has been a way of life in Mauritanian for many centuries "There are tens of thousands of Black slaves who remain the property of their master, subject entirely to his will, working long hours for no remuneration, with no access to education and no freedom to marry or to associate freely with other blacks." says Africa Watch. "They escape servitude not by exercising their "legal" rights, but mainly through escape."

For those who are skeptical and find this hard to believe, it is important to do the math. This slave trade predates the 1400's and continued until ". . .July 5, 1980, [when] the government of President Mohamed Khouna Ould Haidallah passed a decree abolishing slavery for the third time in Mauritania's history" states Africa Watch. "The abolition was essentially a public-relations exercise prompted by external considerations. It was never intended as a well thought out policy aimed at eradicating the age-old practice of slavery."...."
http://members.aol.com/casmasalc/demographics.html

"..."Even in cold weather I had to wear thin dresses ... I was forced by the boss to serve international soldiers and police officers ... I have never had a chance of running away and leaving that miserable life, because I was observed every moment by a woman."
UNMIK's initial response in the period from 1999 to 2000 appears to have been to try to control prostitution - which is illegal in Kosovo - rather than addressing the issue of trafficking. This was done predominantly through raids by UNMIK Police and KFOR on premises where trafficked women were believed to work. UNMIK police also arrested women for immigration or documentation offences at borders and within Kosovo. However, the traffickers themselves were rarely targeted.
...Very few trafficked women in Kosovo are able to gain access to justice, including the right to seek redress through the criminal justice system. To date, no trafficked woman has been able to obtain reparations for the damage she has suffered as a result of abuses of their human rights."
http://www.amnestyusa.org/news/document.do?id=1391B6E5EE9C8A9780256E7E0041EE72

"The bigger problem, as Rockwell acknowledged, is that the country has developed a reputation as the brothel of Europe, with cheap flights fueling sex tourism. Traffickers see a great business opportunity in the Czech Republic. And if prosecutors and judges do not start to take the issue seriously, the Czech Republic could become even more of a trafficker's heaven, Tier 1 rating or not."
http://www.praguepost.com/P03/2004/Art/0624/opinpv.php

But enough derailing with unpleasant toopics...back to Jebus, by all means.

[ernon]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
Those links you gave are about slavery that's illegal. Murder and rape are illegal, they happen though. You want to give some proof about official legal slavery(not hidden because it's criminal in said country) in a UN nation?

Would you say that the maltreatment and severe restrictions on women in some Middle Eastern countries qualifies as slavery? I don't see much difference and wonder why the women of the world aren't rising up against this abomination.

Ernon

[triadboy]

Originally posted by LW
Simple answer: when the end times come, slavery and chariots are again in vogue.

I'm going to have my slave drive my chariot.

(sigh) Good times.

[DarkMagician]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
Those links you gave are about slavery that's illegal. Murder and rape are illegal, they happen though. You want to give some proof about official legal slavery(not hidden because it's criminal in said country) in a UN nation? Um... Wal Mart?

[Abdul Alhazred]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
Rev. 18:13

Revelation, eh? Doesn't that mean it's a complex metaphor for something else entirely? :D

[c4ts]

You see, "chariot" is a metaphor for "cars," and "slave" is a metaphor for personal computers. Anything to make it appear up to date.

[Zep]

Originally posted by triadboy
I'm going to have my slave drive my chariot.

(sigh) Good times. I'm going to have my slaves CARRY my chariot! And the horses.

Anything less would be un-something or other.

[c4ts]

But aren't we forgetting the spiritual message of Revelations?

Freedom is slavery! Ignorance is strength! Yay!




Oh wait, that was 1984. Well, certain fundies can't tell the difference anyway.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Zep
I'm going to have my slaves CARRY my chariot! And the horses.

Anything less would be un-something or other.

Ha! I'm much more civilized than you, for my chariot is carried by slaves mounted on horses which are in turn standing on horses carried by more slaves, in a giant acrobatic arrangement. The benefit of this method of transport is that not only is it tres elegant, but also I can charge people money to see me travel around as a circus parade. I spend the money to bleach the horses, then dye them back to their original colors. That's called "style".

[Phideaux]

Originally posted by triadboy
I'm going to have my slave drive my chariot.

(sigh) Good times.

I will settle for nothing less than a FLAMING chariot like the one God drove across the sky in the Old Testament.

Maybe I can have my slaves paint flames on the sides of the chariot at least.

I wonder why God didn't pick a Hummer to drive across the sky?

[Yahweh]

Iron chariots for me.

[richardm]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
Chariots are hardly common-place transportation any longer either.

They will be when the oil runs out. The Amish know this, and have kept a repository of horsey knowledge with which they will rise up and take over the world.

Those buggies won't look so olde-time and cute when they've got rotating knives attached to the hubs.

[AWPrime]

Originally posted by c4ts
But aren't we forgetting the spiritual message of Revelations?

Freedom is slavery! Ignorance is strength! Yay!

Oh wait, that was 1984. Well, certain fundies can't tell the difference anyway.

True

[Iacchus]

Originally posted by SkepticJ
This Bible flaw was discovered by me. Not even the Skeptic's Annotated Bible has an entry on it, top that!

Here it is:

Rev. 18:13 And cinnamon, and odours, and ointments, and frankincense, and wine, and oil, and fine flour, and wheat, and beasts, and sheep, and horses, and chariots, and slaves, and souls of men.

There aren't slaves anymore, at least not legal slaves(sure there's illegal sex-slaves in Thailand). Chariots are hardly common-place transportation any longer either. It's of my understanding that this verse is in reference to the decline of the Roman Catholic Church, which began several hundred years ago. And yes, at that time, slavery was still wide spread.

[L7Cz]

Originally posted by richardm
They will be when the oil runs out. The Amish know this, and have kept a repository of horsey knowledge with which they will rise up and take over the world.

Those buggies won't look so olde-time and cute when they've got rotating knives attached to the hubs. Do the knives rotate when the hubs don't? Or are they really stationary knives that rotate with the hubs, when the hubs are rotating?

[ReFLeX]

Originally posted by Yahweh
Iron chariots for me. *gasp* Yahweh will be infallible.

...Wait...

[stamenflicker]

skepticj,

There aren't slaves anymore, at least not legal slaves(sure there's illegal sex-slaves in Thailand). Chariots are hardly common-place transportation any longer either.

A few things here. First of all, the verse is totally out of context. Back up to verse 11 and see the context:

And the merchants of the earth weep and mourn over her, because no one buys their cargoes any more--

Verses 12 and 13 and depictions of the cargo that is no longer bought from Babylon: slaves and chariots being two of them. So there's a real "no dice" here based on the context.

But even if the context were different, it's crucial to understand that there numerous different sects or denominations of Christianity which interpret Revelation differently. Some say its already happened, others say it was a drama enacted out as entertainment, others say it is a metaphor, and yes, some hang on every literal word.

I suppose it is this latter group to which you strive to unseat. Well, that is easy enough. The literalist stands no chance in reasonable debate of denying the contradictions of scripture, at least in the realm of facts. But just because something isn't factual doesn't mean it isn't true. This point has been covered before. Reason is the voice of truth, imagination is the voice of meaning. Reason and imagination combined give rise to the things we cherish most about humanity.

Flick

[RandFan]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
Reason is the voice of truth, imagination is the voice of meaning. Reason and imagination combined give rise to the things we cherish most about humanity.

Flick I like it. Original?

[stamenflicker]

I like it. Original?

I doubt it. I read so much I probably saw something like it somewhere and quoted it differently. But it could be original, I don't know for sure.

Flick