This is why

[Ceinwyn]

I admit, I was wishy-washy at first. Then I read this (http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20030410.uwent0410/BNStory?query=Margaret+Wente).

Also, it's come to light that the US troops found 600 or so Kuwaitis in a prison, languishing since the last gulf war. That's 12 years ago.

I now have no problem at all with the actions of the United States. None at all.

[subgenius]

Having "no problem" with the action should not be a blank check nor a reason to forget history, i.e. what we did/did not do that led to all of this. And no, I'm not saying it was all, or even mostly our fault, but what can we do better the next time. Like finishing the job the first time, and not arming madmen in the first place.

[EvilYeti]

Originally posted by subgenius
Having "no problem" with the action should not be a blank check nor a reason to forget history, i.e. what we did/did not do that led to all of this. And no, I'm not saying it was all, or even mostly our fault, but what can we do better the next time. Like finishing the job the first time, and not arming madmen in the first place.

Hindsight is always 20/20 man.

We would have finished the job the first time, but the U.N. did not authorize us to remove Saddam from power, only kick him out of Kuwait.

I never understood the argument that since we once supported Saddam we are therefore responsible for all his future actions. Have any of your friends ever done something wrong, or illegal? Is that your fault? Should the families of criminals be locked up as well for supporting them as children?

I agree with you on the whole "arming nutballs" thing and have been hoping that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" policies of the past will go the way of the dodo bird. I wish the current administration would address this at some point.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by EvilYeti


Hindsight is always 20/20 man.

We would have finished the job the first time, but the U.N. did not authorize us to remove Saddam from power, only kick him out of Kuwait.

I never understood the argument that since we once supported Saddam we are therefore responsible for all his future actions. Have any of your friends ever done something wrong, or illegal? Is that your fault? Should the families of criminals be locked up as well for supporting them as children?

I agree with you on the whole "arming nutballs" thing and have been hoping that the "enemy of my enemy is my friend" policies of the past will go the way of the dodo bird. I wish the current administration would address this at some point.

aiding and abetting is a criminal act.

At least the US could apologize for the acts that are clearly wrong. The first War, the confusion and poor thinking in US foreign policy were shown when they encouraged a rising against Saddam that resulted in a massacre when the urging was suddenly switched off.

[subgenius]

".....but the U.N. did not authorize us to remove Saddam from power, only kick him out of Kuwait. "

Actually I have never understood this. Number one once they start shooting at your people, torching wells, and lobbing scuds at a third party all bets are off on the basis of change of circumstance. Two, the U.N. didn't authorize any of what we're doing this time, and that didn't stop us.
As to the parts that you agree with me on, I gotta admire the wisdom of anyone who agrees with me.:D

[Questioninggeller]

Originally posted by subgenius
and not arming madmen in the first place.

Good Point, but I think the U.S. is doing this again.

[Reginald]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


aiding and abetting is a criminal act.



Are you saying that by selling arms to Iraq the US were aiding and abetting?

If thats the case you sure do want to see a lot of people in jail....

Sellers of Guns, knives, blunt objects, sharp objects, jemmies, crow-bars, lock-picks, cars, paper, pens, PCs, flashlights, gloves, masks and hats, box cutters, imitation firearms, ladders, ropes, glass cutters, house bricks, overcoats, solvents, mobile phones...an on and on.

All of these, once sold could and have been used in crimes. You advocate the sellers of these being criminalised I take it?

[crackmonkey]

Encouraging the uprising and then abandoning the Shi'ites to the tender mercies of the Iraqi police was shameful. An absolute disgrace. Was there ever a formal investigation into the affair?

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Reginald


Are you saying that by selling arms to Iraq the US were aiding and abetting?

If thats the case you sure do want to see a lot of people in jail....

Sellers of Guns, knives, blunt objects, sharp objects, jemmies, crow-bars, lock-picks, cars, paper, pens, PCs, flashlights, gloves, masks and hats, box cutters, imitation firearms, ladders, ropes, glass cutters, house bricks, overcoats, solvents, mobile phones...an on and on.

All of these, once sold could and have been used in crimes. You advocate the sellers of these being criminalised I take it?
If you sell them to known madmen who obviously intend to use them criminally. You do see the distinction? You're not that simple minded, right?

[corplinx]

Originally posted by subgenius

If you sell them to known madmen who obviously intend to use them criminally.

I thought Saddam was one of those people who the older he got, the worse he got. Around 1978/9 (the beginning of US support) he was known as a hard fisted ruler but I am not sure he was a known madman also.

Was it after the Iran border war loss that he really lost it? If you recall, his use of chemical/biological agents didn't really start until it was clear he was going to lose.

Also, his purges and tortures. Were they common before the loss? Also, it seems Shiite and Kurd uprisings sent him into his final stage as the worst of all. Torturing children, disfiguring suspected dissidents.

Was he always as bad? Was he and was it just not known to the west? Was he and was it just that the west didnt care as long as he was attacking Iran?

[Reginald]

Originally posted by subgenius

You're not that simple minded, right?

Nope, I dont think I am, also I dont feel the need to resort to the above either!

Alas madmen dont often carry a sign saying "I'm a madman I plan on doing X Y Z" when they walk in a shop.

[subgenius]

Originally posted by Reginald


Nope, I dont think I am, also I dont feel the need to resort to the above either!

Alas madmen dont often carry a sign saying "I'm a madman I plan on doing X Y Z" when they walk in a shop.
Apologies for the harshness.:(
(edited for spelling....and to think I won a spelling bee in the fifth grade)