Lebanon shows mercy to Palestinian-Arabs

[Mycroft]

Abbas also thanked the Lebanese government for the recent easing of labor restrictions for Palestinians born in Lebanon. A decree issued last month by Lebanon's labor minister relaxed rules denying Palestinian refugees living in the country since the creation of Israel the right to work in most jobs, allowing them to work in a range of private-sector jobs.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1120876249044

Burried as a footnote in this article, barely reported at all in western media, you would think ending such a restriction after more tha 20 years would get more attention.

Congratulations, you now have the right to hold a job.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Mycroft
Burried as a footnote in this article, barely reported at all in western media, you would think ending such a restriction after more tha 20 years would get more attention. Since people have been harping on about this for more than twenty years, it is no surprise that this has quickly been brought to my attention.

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Since people have been harping on about this for more than twenty years, it is no surprise that this has quickly been brought to my attention.

I don't understand your meaning.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Mycroft
I don't understand your meaning. Well, you could try comparing your post with mine, and, since you're American, you could try finding out the meaning of the word "sarcasm".

[Elind]

Originally posted by Mycroft
I don't understand your meaning.

Ignore him. He's just learned the word Sarcasm and is trying to put in a sentence.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Elind
Ignore him. He's just learned the word Sarcasm and is trying to put in a sentence. I have in fact just learned that Mycroft behaves as if he doesn't even have the concept "sarcasm" and was directing him to the definition of the word. As you would notice if you read my posts.

The word "duh" springs to mind.

* sigh *

[Elind]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
I have in fact just learned that Mycroft behaves as if he doesn't even have the concept "sarcasm" and was directing him to the definition of the word. As you would notice if you read my posts.

The word "duh" springs to mind.

* sigh *

I was giving you an example of a meaningful sarcastic sentence, as you seemed to need help.

Duhh

:p

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
I have in fact just learned that Mycroft behaves as if he doesn't even have the concept "sarcasm" and was directing him to the definition of the word. As you would notice if you read my posts.

The word "duh" springs to mind.

* sigh *

I understand sarcasm, I just don't see how it relates to your post. I'm not trying to be rude or argumentative, I just can't tell from your post what ideas you're trying to express.

[Manny]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Since people have been harping on about this for more than twenty years, it is no surprise that this has quickly been brought to my attention. Well, it's true that it hasn't received 20 years of close media attention, if that's what you're getting at. But many observers of the plight of the Palestinians have been observing for that time that the host countries of the refugees have refused to take any action which might alleviate their suffering if it had the slightest possibility of causing them to believe they had a "right" to remain in those host countries. And now comes the least country-like country of all, newly freed from Syrian domination and finally offering an opportunity for the refugees to get a job.

It's not the biggest story in the area. It doesn't compare to what would have happened if Arafat had accepted the deal brokered by Clinton and offered to him by Barak, for example. But yeah, it's actually pretty big news and good news at that. Kudos to Lebanon for extending this olive branch (heh). I don't know that it will be paradigm-shifting, but it's a nice move in the right direction and I agree with Mycroft that it deserved more play than it got.

[Dr Adequate]

Jeesh. Translated for those who don't speak irony, my points were (1) I have heard for ages about the inhumane treatment of Palestinian refugees by the surrounding states and how it exacerbates the crisis. So have you. This has not been hushed up in any way by the "western media". (2) Your post seems to imply that the people who hadn't heard about the solution (in the case of Lebanon) hadn't been told of it because the "western media" wants to hide that there's been a solution because they want to hide that there's been a problem which needed solution. This is an unnecessarily complicated conspiracy theory.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by Elind
I was giving you an example of a meaningful sarcastic sentence, as you seemed to need help. It is not sufficient to be untruthful. For actual sarcasm, an element of humour is required.

[Manny]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Jeesh. Translated for those who don't speak irony, my points were (1) I have heard for ages about the inhumane treatment of Palestinian refugees by the surrounding states and how it exacerbates the crisis. So have you. This has not been hushed up in any way by the "western media". (2) Your post seems to imply that the people who hadn't heard about the solution (in the case of Lebanon) hadn't been told of it because the "western media" wants to hide that there's been a solution because they want to hide that there's been a problem which needed solution. This is an unnecessarily complicated conspiracy theory. Huh. At least one error on my part and perhaps two.

I read your comment as sarcastic in a different direction -- I read it as opining that this was not a big deal historically, or at least that no one had made a big deal out of it whether it deserved to be or not. So I apologize for that. I also read Mycroft's comment as simply expressing disappointment that such a big change didn't get more play. A lot of us believe that good news doesn't get the play it deserves not so much out of bias (which we also may feel may or may not exist, each of us having a different opinion) but because bad news is easier to report than good news -- if it bleeds it leads and all that. I'll withhold that apology until I find out whether I was wrong twice or just once. :)

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by manny
I also read Mycroft's comment as simply expressing disappointment that such a big change didn't get more play. I thought Mycroft himself was attempting a primitive form of sarcasm, based on my recollection of how he usually thinks.

I guess it's now down to Mycroft to say what he was trying to imply with his post.

* bangs head on desk until it hurts *

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
I thought Mycroft himself was attempting a primitive form of sarcasm, based on my recollection of how he usually thinks.

I guess it's now down to Mycroft to say what he was trying to imply with his post.

* bangs head on desk until it hurts *

I meant it just the way I said it. It's good news that didn't get the play it deserved.

Was the media covering it up? No, but the media does seem to ignore the Palestinian-Arabs unless there is drama with the Israelis. Their relationship with other states gets very little attention.

[Elind]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
It is not sufficient to be untruthful. For actual sarcasm, an element of humour is required.

Do you mean in your version or mine? I thought mine was a teeny little bitsy bit funny.



:p

[CBL4]

Where is the 20 years coming from? I thought the refugee camps had been going on for over 50.

I have always been puzzled by the reporting that the refugee camps get. Palestinians haved lived in refugee camps in Arab states for over 50 years but (Jordan excepted) have been denied basic rights such as citizenship, property and jobs. But rarely is this mentioned and if it is always seems to be more an attack on Israel rather than Lebanon, Syria and Saudi Arabia.

By now, the vast majority of "Palestinian" refugees have never seen Palestine or Israel. I would not be surprise if the majority are 2nd generation Lebanese, Syrians, etc. They are people who have been denied basic rights by various Arab tyrants in the nations they were born in. (I guess I should rephrase that to be even fewer rights than the typical oppressed Arab.)

I am fairly sure that this decades long imprisonment is unique to the Arab world. But it is all Israel's fault.

CBL

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by CBL4
By now, the vast majority of "Palestinian" refugees have never seen Palestine or Israel.

Funny you should mention that.

In the last three months I've had as customers two Palestinian-American families who have never been to "Palestine." One would think this unlikely as I live and work in the midwest United States, and the Arab community here is not large.

One guy, born in Kuwait, worked for ten years in Saudi Arabia before comming to the States and becomming a citizen. The other family both the husband and wife were born in Qatar to fathers born in the Gaza Strip and emmigrated to the States, becomming citizens.

By no reasonable standard would anyone consider these people "Palestinian" except that due to where their grandfathers were when Israel declared its independence, the Arab world won't let them be anything else.

[Elind]

Originally posted by Mycroft
By no reasonable standard would anyone consider these people "Palestinian" except that due to where their grandfathers were when Israel declared its independence, the Arab world won't let them be anything else.

True enough, except that they then have no choice except to call themselves Palestinian, except those that came to the West and now call themselves American or British.

They also used to be the "middle class" in Kuwait and had free reign in that country while occupied by Iraq, since it took Arafat 30 seconds to support the invasion. I'm not sure how many have been allowed back since, but not many were welcome after that war.

However, some that I know, perhaps many, did risk their lives to travel in and out of Kuwait during the occupation with information useful to the US, since they had freedom of travel at that time.

Let's also not forget that some call themselves Israeli, and have had the right to live and work there for generations.

[Elind]

I read this, feeling sad. I don't diminish any of the Palestinian stories that contain hardship, but let us not forget that religion is guilty of atrocities everywhere.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/nationworld/world/ktla-fg-srebrenica11jul11-lat,0,6083722.story?coll=ktla-news-1

[Mycroft]

Originally posted by Elind
True enough, except that they then have no choice except to call themselves Palestinian, except those that came to the West and now call themselves American or British.

They also used to be the "middle class" in Kuwait and had free reign in that country while occupied by Iraq, since it took Arafat 30 seconds to support the invasion. I'm not sure how many have been allowed back since, but not many were welcome after that war.

Yes. My friend left Kuwait because he was kicked out after that war.

Originally posted by Elind
However, some that I know, perhaps many, did risk their lives to travel in and out of Kuwait during the occupation with information useful to the US, since they had freedom of travel at that time.

I didn't know that, but it makes sense. It's a crazy world.

Originally posted by Elind
Let's also not forget that some call themselves Israeli, and have had the right to live and work there for generations.

Those get forgotten first of all.

Originally posted by Elind
I read this, feeling sad. I don't diminish any of the Palestinian stories that contain hardship, but let us not forget that religion is guilty of atrocities everywhere.

http://ktla.trb.com/news/nationworld/world/ktla-fg-srebrenica11jul11-lat,0,6083722.story?coll=ktla-news-1

Today is the tenth aniversary of that, isn't it?