'Love is a Fallacy' - short story.

[Kiless]

I found Max Shulman's story online - the link asks (well, it asked me) if I wanted to download the Korean translation that is included and if you say 'no' it'll give you the English version and some higgledy-piggledy that is possibly the Korean translation....

Anyway, I dug it up when I wanted to refer in another post about 'poisoning the well' fallacy and I've used it for a few years in my Philosophy class. Enjoy it if you haven't read it before! :)

http://eepel.snu.ac.kr/~wjlee/pds.htm

[Hawk one]

I wasn't asked anything, and the only thing at the bottom was question marks. Oh well.

Nevertheless, a truly inspiring story.. Or perhaps truly depressing. I'm not sure yet. Thanks for digging it up. ;)

[clarsct]

See? You hook the girl first, then corrupt her!

Man, you'd think if he was that brilliant, he'd have known that!

*sigh*

[69dodge]

Now, how did I know it was that story?

I read it a long time ago; I don't remember where. I had totally forgotten about it. I didn't remember the author or title. But somehow, just from reading the posts in this thread, I knew it was that story. Weird.

Anyway, great story. Thanks for reminding me of it.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Kiless
I found Max Shulman's story online - the link asks (well, it asked me) if I wanted to download the Korean translation that is included and if you say 'no' it'll give you the English version and some higgledy-piggledy that is possibly the Korean translation....
That's not higgledy-piggledy; it's Hangul, the written language of Korea, and the most rational written system in the world. (You can learn it in a day.)
Shikoro, chu se yo. (Please shut up.)

[Kiless]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
That's not higgledy-piggledy; it's Hangul, the written language of Korea, and the most rational written system in the world. (You can learn it in a day.)
Shikoro, chu se yo. (Please shut up.)

Well, if you choose not to click the download... LIKE I WROTE, IF YOU CLICK 'NO'..... THEN it comes out as higgledy-piggledy.

Geeze!

Did you READ the story or did you just want to whine?

강타는, �것� 닫았다! :D

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Kiless
Did you READ the story or did you just want to whine?
I want you to learn Korean.

[Kiless]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
I want you to learn Korean.

And I want you to comprehend English! :)

You willing to pay me to learn? ;) Because, quite frankly, I have better things to do than read whining about fictional insults against other people's languages....

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Kiless
And I want you to comprehend English! :)
I comprehend English better than you do, colonial!
Originally posted by Kiless

You willing to pay me to learn? ;)
And what could YOU possibly teach ME?
Originally posted by Kiless
Because, quite frankly, I have better things to do than read whining about fictional insults against other people's languages....
So you do consider Koreans to be outside your sphere of comprehension...?!

[Kiless]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
I comprehend English better than you do, colonial!

Sigh... whatever...... :rolleyes:

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
And what could YOU possibly teach ME?

Basic reading comprehension - I hate repeating myself, but here it is AGAIN:

Originally posted by Kiless
....if I wanted to download the Korean translation that is included and if you say 'no' it'll give you the English version and some higgledy-piggledy that is possibly the Korean translation....

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
So you do consider Koreans to be outside your sphere of comprehension...?!

I'm insulted by that. Don't you dare assume such a slanderous notion.

I teach Koreans. I consider them to be fine people. But then, as a whole, I like many cultures. I don't discriminate.

You, on the other hand, appear to be a waste of time. Last time I faced this, I hit the ignore button.... I shall do so again.


Edited for a pesky errant bold font.... the things I do for people who can't seem to 'translate' ;)

[Czarzy]

- interrupting this fist-fight to interject that the story is greatly appreciated, Kiless, and thus your linkage to it - now let the carnage continue ....

[Kimpatsu]

Bloody colonial. Let him come to Japan.
:hit: :bricks: :jedi: :uk: :p :D

[SezMe]

Since it is impossible to derail this thread more than what has already happened, I would note that thread deterioration into silly pissing contests seems to be more common. Here, the todo with jj in the RoadToad picture thread, the endless Mycroft/AUP dance, etc., etc.

What's up? Have charity, good humor, the assumption of good will, etc. been declared off-limits in the Skeptical Community?

[Kiless]

Originally posted by SezMe
Since it is impossible to derail this thread more than what has already happened, I would note that thread deterioration into silly pissing contests seems to be more common. Here, the todo with jj in the RoadToad picture thread, the endless Mycroft/AUP dance, etc., etc.

What's up? Have charity, good humor, the assumption of good will, etc. been declared off-limits in the Skeptical Community?

No.

I made a decision recently that if someone just wants to be silly, abusive, aggressive or insulting towards me, that I'd give them a statement that says 'I will put you on ignore' and leave it like that. No need to go into the previous two times, but in both situations I should have followed my first instincts and put them on ignore rather than drawing it out with PMs, online posts, etc.

So, rather than doing a drawn-out 'pissing match', I'll just remove myself from any argument and state clearly that I have them on ignore.

I don't know if anyone else has a similar attitude, but I think it's a healthier one than what happened to me before, where I got distressed enough to take a short leave of absence. I came here originally because of critical thinking - I intend to stay for that.

And to improve my limerick skills, that's a bonus.

Quite willing to see anyone else's comments, sure. If they're about the story because as far as I can see, everything else is out of the picture. :)

Shall I tell you about the Year 10 Philosophy programme that I designed which used the story? :)

[Kimpatsu]

There once was an otaku called Kiless
Who said in his posts he couldn't care less.
He ignored all who wrote
About how he'd be smote
And the humour didn't impress.
:p

[Kiless]

Here you go:
Term Four - Philosophy elective, Year 10

It was only for one term - we had one term where we could create our own programme based upon what students thought they'd like to study and this is a basic overview. Quite willing to email it out (a word document, rather large!) to anyone who wants to adapt it.

English Outcomes that will be addressed in this course:
•Demonstrate knowledge of some of the major philosophers of the Western European tradition.
•Demonstrate knowledge of some main concepts in philosophy, including definitions of key concepts
•Identify assumptions that underpin theories, arguments and positions in selected writings and the media, and in everyday life
•Thing write and speak clearly and recognize clarity of thought in the work of others
•Use reasoned arguments to support your views
•Identify and articulate counter arguments to your own positions
•Ask questions to clarify problems further
•Extract central ideas and arguments from print and non–print sources (you will be applying philosophical thinking to your viewing of the feature film The Matrix and to your reading of feature articles/ news articles, short stories, etc).

Here are some outcomes that relate more to over-arching educational outcomes about values and attitudes. I hope, that apart from demonstrating the skills and knowledge above, that you will also be able to:

•Demonstrate openness and intellectual humility by approaching discussions involving a conflict of views in a spirit of inquiry
•Recognize that there are alternative approaches to apprehending ‘truth’ and ‘reality’
•Demonstrate increasing awareness of the complexity of many issues and of the necessity of examining issues from many different perspectives.

General overview:
- Philosophical Questioning - introduction.
- Communities of Inquiry - Matthew Lipman, 'Lisa'.
- Background to Greek Philosophy - first assignment task, create a general overview of an allocated philosopher and a short talk on their importance and relevance.
- Reasoning and Logic - 'Love is a Fallacy', argument worksheet – Deductive reasoning, Logical Statements and Venn Diagrams.
- How Are We To Live?
- When should we call things “good�?
- Right and Wrong.
- Rights and Obligations - short story 'Babycakes' by Neil Gaiman
- Privileges and Duties.
- Do Women and Men Think Differently about Ethics? Short story 'The Knife' - Phillip Cam.
- Free will and determinism - 'The Matrix'.

And yes, it was a bit of a squish getting them all in there! :( Hoping that some of it will be of use in the new Post Compulsory course in 2007.

[Kimpatsu]

Just how DID you manage to cram all that in?

[clarsct]

Originally posted by Kimpatsu
Bloody colonial. Let him come to Japan.
:hit: :bricks: :jedi: :uk: :p :D


HIM?!

:dl:


Kiless, shoot him.


You don't have a link to this, do you?
'Babycakes' by Neil Gaiman


I LOVE Neil Gaiman, as an author. Never read any of his comics.

That's a comprehensive course. Once again I feel the US slipping behind the educational standards of the rest of the world.

Can I send my children to Australia to be educated? I promise a generous salary.......

[Kimpatsu]

Neil Gaiman is great. So is Alan Moore. All hail the greats!

[Kiless]

Originally posted by clarsct
HIM?!

:dl:


Kiless, shoot him.


No comment.

Originally posted by clarsct
You don't have a link to this, do you?
'Babycakes' by Neil Gaiman


I LOVE Neil Gaiman, as an author. Never read any of his comics.

HERETIC!!!! BURN!!!

.... oh, alright, but if I can't find a link online, I'll PM you the story - but I strongly suggest instead, that you buy either this (note, you can use the search feature on this and actually read the whole thing online..... ;) ) (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0060934700/qid=1123929690/sr=8-16/ref=sr_8_xs_ap_i1_xgl14/002-5874575-3342444?v=glance&s=books&n=507846) or better yet, this - can't find it on Amazon, my hardcover is rather old, perhaps it's out of print... (http://www.av.qnet.com/~raven/avreview.html).

READ MORE!! :)

Originally posted by clarsct
That's a comprehensive course. Once again I feel the US slipping behind the educational standards of the rest of the world.

Can I send my children to Australia to be educated? I promise a generous salary.......

Eh, this is the devising of one person (me) and we don't run it anymore. Google 'outcomes education, Western Australia' and you'll see what we're facing. It was on the front page of today's paper that the Principals are rebelling... for all I know, my system will collapse into a massive heap over the next two years.... optimistic, ain't I? :rolleyes:

[cue Derail queen] - oooooh! This looks good!!! :) [/derail] (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00061QJAI/qid=1123929690/sr=8-7/ref=pd_bbs_7/002-5874575-3342444?v=glance&s=dvd&n=507846)

[Kimpatsu]

Kiless, whose Miracleman did you think was better? Moore's or Gaiman's?

[Kiless]

Oh, I felt guilty for plugging Gaiman's work but not Phillip Cam's - so here's a list of his books from his site at UNSW.

http://philosophy.arts.unsw.edu.au/staff/academic_staff/p_cam/p_cam.htm#Publications

I'd strongly recommend it; they are (sigh, I admit this is always a factor for teachers...) smaller / easier posted / cheaper / than the original works of Matthew Lipman and Anne M Sharp (who I actually got to meet in the workshop held for Philosophy in Schools! Probably her last trip to Australia, a fantastic thinker and so well travelled) although if you can get a hold of Harry Stottlemeier's Discovery, especially the teacher's guide, do so....

.... and I am slightly biased as Cam is an Australian. :)

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Kiless .... and I am slightly biased as Cam is an Australian. :) [/B]
...'Nuff said... :p :D
PS: You still haven't answered my question: Gaiman or Moore?

[tim]

Erm, Kimpatsu? There's something you should note about Kiless. Apart from the fact she's a bloody colonial.
Yep, that's right, she.
:D :D :D

[tim]

Oh, and Kiless? Thanks for the link. The story is excellent!

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by tim
Erm, Kimpatsu? There's something you should note about Kiless. Apart from the fact she's a bloody colonial.
Yep, that's right, she.
:D :D :D
It's rare to meet a female otaku, Tim.
Even a colonial... :p :D

[Kiless]

No worries Tim. Whilst you're at it... tell the rude fellow who can't read that I have him on ignore... and will continue to do so.

[Kimpatsu]

Originally posted by Kiless
No worries Tim. Whilst you're at it... tell the rude fellow who can't read that I have him on ignore... and will continue to do so.
Ah, an otaku who can't take a joke; definitely an otaku.

[Kiless]

http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?postid=1871018012#post1871018012

All intelligent contributions / reactions to this story and what I've done with it should go to my new thread. Mind - this is the education forum. Not the humour forum. My new thread is here. (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=61394)

[Dogdoctor]

I very much enjoyed reading the story. It reminds me of a fable or something, you know a story with a moral. I have never studied logic .....Ok so it's obvious..... but the author missed another logical point. Who wants a girlfriend who chooses boyfriends because they have a raccoon coat? I assume not the male character in the story. Don't know much about logic but do know a little about love.