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Rolfe
22nd July 2005, 10:48 AM
Randi did a neat job showing up the technical fakery in those two blood films. However, the same general effect could easily be produced without any need for electronic fakery.

When you make a blood film, the result will vary a lot depending on technique. The aim is to get a monolayer of cells, with no or little overlap, but still to have the cells quite close together. The trick is to get the size of the drop of blood and the speed of the spreading just right so as to achieve this, and the right size and speed will vary between samples. In particular, anaemic samples with relatively few red cells will need a bigger drop.

If you get it wrong and make much too thick a smear, the result will look much like the first of the two pictures. Except it will be more realistic (the cells won't show that "chaining" appearance), and there will be no electronic fakery to spot. If the smear is a bit too thin, it will look more like the second one (though actually, the second one is quite a good film). Indeed, you can often find a decent area on the edge of a smear which is actually much too thick for most of its surface, so you could quite easily get the two different effects just by photographing two areas of the same film.

So, bad marks to the fakers for using electronic methods when they could just have fudged it the old-fashioned way.

But even more of a jaw-dropper is the idea that it would be a good thing if your red cells were wide apart so that they can carry "nutrients" and oxygen more effectively.

News flash, quacks.

First, red cells don't carry nutrients, they only carry oxygen. That's all.

Second, the oxygen carrying capacity is directly related to the amount of haemoglobin you have in your blood.

Now, each red cell has a finite amount of haemoglobin in it. (The MCH, about 30pg per cell in man.) So if you want to carry oxygen more effectively, you need, guess what? More red cells. Not fewer.

I would have thought that everybody knows that you need to have a sufficient concentration of haemoglobin in your blood. "Low blood count" is a well-understood problem, even by non-medical people. Because of the way haemoglobin is carried in the blood, in little 30pg packets called red cells, low haemoglobin equals "low blood count" equals low red cell count equals fewer red cells which will therefore be further apart.

We specialists refer to this conditions as ANAEMIA.

These fakers are actually telling you how being anaemic must be good for you, at least in their bizarro looking-glass land of alternative haematology.

Rolfe.

Rolfe
30th July 2005, 04:01 AM
I saw the comment on this by the dotor, in the following Commentary.

It's true, the earlier blood film does have the appearance of rouleaux. I was quite persuaded by what Randi said about the superimposed images, but in some ways the rouleaux explanation is more likely. It's just the question of blood cells "moving". In a normal blood film, they are dried to the microscope slide, and don't move. However, I don't know enough about this quacky "live blood analysis" to be sure that they aren't using a technique which would allow the cells to move. If they aren't moving, yes, these are rouleaux.

Either way, the earlier slide can be explained either as image manipulation, or as a thick blood film showing rouleaux formation. The second slide is much better made. They could be two slides made from the same blood sample, or you could even get a decent area near the edge of a slide that was too thick for most of its area, and get both images from the same slide. It's all about technique and nothing to do with any alteration in the blood.

And the bottom line is still, if your red cells are further apart, this doesn't mean that they have more room to "be themselves" - it means you are anaemic!

Rolfe.

Zep
30th July 2005, 04:16 AM
I happen to appreciate your great technical input on this, Rolfe, but in stepping back and viewing it from a slightly broader viewpoint, I think it is obvious to any educated person that this is all a pile of stinky balderdash right from the get-go. But the problem is not these educated people.

It is the people who do NOT have the mental wherewithal to appreciate that a problem in the science actually EXISTS here. They have simply being bamboozled by "gee-whizz" stuff that sounds scientific. And, of course, they are getting sold a pup, and their hard-earned is quickly transplanted to the thieves' pockets before the marks are wised up. And if you shut this one down, no doubt they will move on to another one, equally appalling, and still just as profitable.

So it actually doesn't matter if Randi's explanation is correct or yours - it's merely of acadamic interest and does not affect the "outcome". Clearly the eradication of ongoing pseudo-science scams like this is MORE SCIENCE EDUCATION, including critical thinking as a mandatory component.

Rolfe
30th July 2005, 08:12 AM
Tell you what, though. Yesterday I was complaining of a headache, and one of my haematology technicians said why didn't I try acupuncture. My reply elicited the usual, don't be so closed-minded. After remarking that her brain was obviously about to fall out, I told her about the blood films.

Obviously, she didn't need to have it explained to her, the fallacy was self-evident. She collapsed laughing. I then pointed out that there were plenty people who didn't have her knowledge of haematology who swallowed that BS, hook, like sinker and rowboat. Of course, so wouldn't fall for it because she had the knowledge to spot the fallacies.

I then postulated that if she understood physiology in as much detail, she'd see why the claims of acupuncture were just about as silly as the blood film stuff. So don't swallow any sort of BS in the name of open-mindedness if you don't actually understand what you're defending.

It worked.

Rolfe.

Dogdoctor
11th August 2005, 04:02 PM
Just a small point but the pictures in question I believe are of whole blood in wet mount and not a dried smear. There are however numerous ways that the effects could have been achieved without camera trickery such as diluting out the sample or using the same blood but photographing it before it has sat for a while and had a chance to form rouleaux or using plastic coverslips on one and glass on another. It doesn't make sense that they used photographic trickery since there are many easier and less detectable methods of achieving the desired results. And regardless of that their interpretation of the difference is nonsense.

BillyJoe
12th August 2005, 03:10 AM
What's wrong with cats?

Dogdoctor
12th August 2005, 11:20 AM
Originally posted by BillyJoe
What's wrong with cats?

If you asking me about my user name, cats are fine but they often heal in spite of anything veterinarians do and that is not so with dogs . Actually dog doctor is a local slang for 'vet'.

BillyJoe
13th August 2005, 02:06 AM
Dogdoctor,

I guessed you were a vet, but wondered why only dogs and not cats. At the very least they should be thoroughly neutered. ;)

As an aside...
There is a group of vets in Sydney, who noticed that most of their cat patients were owned by homosexuals and they were all well paying customers. Perhaps they spend on their cat what heterosexuals spend on their children. Anyway, they decided to set up a cat-only clinic, so they came down to Melbourne to check out which suburb had the highest concentration of homosexuals. Apparently that suburb is South Yarra, and a fairly well to do area to boot. They plan to build their cat-only clinic there.

Thought you might like to know.

BillyJoe