If you dial '112' on a mobile you will get emergency services, even in a tunnel

[Ashles]

An e-mail has been circulating that basically says:

If you travel to work on the tube please note the following information:

If your mobile phone has no signal (if you are in a tunnel) you can dial 112 and it will divert to a satellite signal and this puts you through to the 999 Call Centre.

All phone companies have signed up and as it is a satellite service it also gives them a trace to you if you do not know where you are.

Please forward to people you know.
A work colleague phoned her service provider T-Mobile and apparently they confirmed this.

However I phoned my network provider Orange, and, after some initial confusion (and talking to a supervisor) they said they could not at this time confirm that - because they said that if you have no reception there's no way to connect you as the phone isn't in communication with anything.

I wouldn't have thought this was possible in the first place - surely if your phone is out of contact it's out of contact, full stop.

Anyone know anything further about this?

[Diogenes]

Originally posted by Ashles
An e-mail has been circulating that basically says:


A work colleague phoned her service provider T-Mobile and apparently they confirmed this[/b].

However I phoned my network provider Orange, and, after some initial confusion (and talking to a supervisor) they said they could not at this time confirm that - because they said that if you have no reception there's no way to connect you as the phone isn't in communication with anything.

I wouldn't have thought this was possible in the first place - surely if your phone is out of contact it's out of contact, full stop.

Anyone know anything further about this? [/B] " I wouldn't have thought this was possible in the first place - surely if your phone is out of contact it's out of contact, full stop.
"

Says it all...

As far as I know, satellite signals will not even penetrate the roof of an automobile ..

[Ashles]

Article on the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4724101.stm) about it.

I think my co-worker must have been misinformed.

[Dragon]

Yup, this is BS - if your mobile can't connect to the network it can't connect to the emergency operator.

112 is the usual emergency no. for the rest of Europe. If you dial 112 in the UK it has exactly the same effect as 999.

[MRC_Hans]

You can always dial emergency on a cellphone even if iti s a paycard phone and you have no time left and you can do it without knoowing the password to the phone. BUT it must be able to connect to the net (and the battery must not be dead, BTW ;)).

So, if you have no connection, you have no connection.

There is an out, though: Sattelites are out in tunnels, but it is technically possible to provide repeater services in tunnels, and these may be made so they will only make limited connections, for instance emergency services.

Whether such repeaters exist, I have no idea.

Hans

[Ipecac]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans

There is an out, though: Sattelites are out in tunnels, but it is technically possible to provide repeater services in tunnels, and these may be made so they will only make limited connections, for instance emergency services.

Whether such repeaters exist, I have no idea.

Hans

The Washington DC Metro is set up for Verizon service. You can use your Verizon cell phones anywhere in the tunnels.

[Brown]

Here's a link to snopes (http://www.snopes.com/science/mobile.asp).

[Bronze Dog]

Note to self: If I suddenly end up on the other side of the Atlantic, dial 112 instead of 911.

Oh, and Diogenes is right about satellite signals: They can't penetrate a car roof. My dad kept his GPS on the dashboard until he got a windshield- (Oh, wait. Windscreen. Forgot where I was.) mounted antenna.

[TheBoyPaj]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
Note to self: If I suddenly end up on the other side of the Atlantic, dial 112 instead of 911.

Oh, that's not very charitable. At least give a chance before calling for help.

[Hawk one]

Slight derail: For some reason, we actually have 3 emergency numbers in Norway:

110 for fire
112 for the cops
113 for ambulance.

No, I don't know why we still haven't changed to simply one emergency number. I suppose it's some sort of memory test to see if people can remember which is which during a crisis.

[sami_sdata]

Cellphones, both US and Europe don's connect to satellites. Geosynched satellite would have over 1/4 second of delay.
From what I read after the subway bombings cellphones in the London tunnels can be switched to "emergency only mode". This allows them to call the emergency number but nothing else. They can not receive calls either. This was done to keep phones from being used to trigger bombs and to conserve the limited bandwidth in the tunnels for emergency services. Several train loads of commuters all calling to tell their family they are ok can make it difficult for emergency calls to connect out. All of this depends on the cellphones involved being up to connect to a cell. If you have no signal you can't connect even to emergency services.

[Ririon]

Darwinism hard at work in Norway...

Anyway, you CAN dial 112 even if you have no signal, provided that the reason you don't have a signal is that your phone is blocked from all available networks.

Say you are in a tunnel, and the only company that has transmitters inside the tunnel is your service provider's main rival. Then you can't call your mother, but you can still call 112 (or 110 or 911 or whatever.)

Edited for political correctness

[sami_sdata]

You will only be able to connect to the competitor if they use the same technology. Not sure if the UK has multiple types of cellphones but the US does. If it is compatible then you phone will show signal. It might show "roaming" or "unknown provider" but it will show signal.

[Ririon]

"Your mileage may vary", I guess.

[Mojo]

Originally posted by MRC_Hans
There is an out, though: Sattelites are out in tunnels, but it is technically possible to provide repeater services in tunnels, and these may be made so they will only make limited connections, for instance emergency services.

Whether such repeaters exist, I have no idea.Even if this were done, there still wouldn't be direct contact with the satellite, so presumably the only location information available would be the location of the repeater network.

...as it is a satellite service it also gives them a trace to you if you do not know where you are.

[Kaydens]

This could be related to something that used to happen a while ago. Back in the earlier days of Mobile phones in the UK you could often find yourself in an area that only had coverage from one or 2 operators. If yours wasn't one of them your phone would typically say "Emergency Calls Only" or something similar. The basic deal was (and as far as I know still is) that when you dial an emergency number e.g. 999 your phone will immediately connect via any network it can. All operators agree to carry emergency calls no matter what the originating operator. In Europe we have no problems like the Verizon issue. all phones work the same way AFAIK.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by sami_sdata
From what I read after the subway bombings cellphones in the London tunnels can be switched to "emergency only mode". This allows them to call the emergency number but nothing else. They can not receive calls either. This was done to keep phones from being used to trigger bombs and to conserve the limited bandwidth in the tunnels for emergency services.You read a false report. The authorities considered doing this, but decided against it. The difficulties people had in connecting were simply due to the overloaded network.

Also, when mobile phones have been used to trigger bombs (as in Madrid), this has had nothing to do with the capacity of the phones to receive a signal. The phones are used simply as timers, like the old-fashioned alarm clock wired to the bomb. When the phone timer goes off, it triggers the bomb. Thus, preventing mobile phones from receiving signals would do nothing at all to stop bombs going off. (And since there is no signal in most of the London Underground, relying on such a signal would be a particularly brain-dead way of trying to trigger an explosion.)

Rolfe.

[skepHick]

Satellite signal does not penetrate a tunnel, as evidenced by the GPS example.

I previously worked in the wireless engineering field. I never had occassion to try to provide service in a tunnel (no tunnels in Florida, USA). Assuming wireless technologies all work on the same basic premise, a repeater might work, but it does not connect you to a satellite, it merely takes signal from one "donor" site in your provider's system and essentially relays it to another. This would prove difficult in a tunnel situation, as you need direct "line of sight" between the repeater and the two sites. If there is coverage available in a tunnel, most likely it is because the service provider has placed an "in-building" system to specifically cover said tunnel.

Long [boring] story short, no coverage means that you can dial 112 or 911 or anything else you like, but you won't get through.

[brodski]

a couple of months before the recent bombing, I was told by a friend of mine who works for the underground (ok, I admit it's not the most authoritive of sources) that LU was considering allowing network providers to establish transmitters in LU stations, which would both raise revenue and allow passengers (and staff) to use their mobiles on the trains.
I believe that the initial thinking was against the idea, due to passenger annoyance at people loudly using mobiles on public transport. I wonder if they are now reconsidering this as an option?

[Zamzara]

But surely because each network provider has varying coverage in different areas there is more to this?

If you have an Orange phone (for example) and have no signal because Orange cover in the areas is non-existant, and you then dial 112, it WILL work IF another network provider provides coverage in that area, because 112 overrides the normal subscrtiber restrictions and uses any available network. 112 will work even if no SIM card is inserted, as long as SOME network is available.

[sami_sdata]

As long as some compatible signal exists. If I took my Cingular phone from the US into the UK I doubt it would work even for 112. Here in the US there are several competing technologies being used for cellphone service. Not all phones are compatible with all service areas. Driving from DC to home, about 60 miles, I hit several areas where my phone shows no signal. Most of that is just a matter of not enough cellphone towers but not all. As I found out making the drive with my brother in law. His phone uses PCS mine is GSM. There were areas where one of us had signal and not the other. Sometimes we both did and showed a differenet carrier. If I go to visit my parents, one state and 300 miles away my phone is useless. The only carrier that provides service there is not compatible with my phone. They do make phones that support multiple standards. I just don't drive outside my area enough to make it worth my while.

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by BronzeDog
Note to self: If I suddenly end up on the other side of the Atlantic, dial 112 instead of 911. I read recently that American media is so pervasive in Britain that a lot of British kids think that 911 is the emergency number in Britain rather than 999 (or 112, which I'd not heard about).

Maybe we should make 911 an option too.

[truk]

Originally posted by sami_sdata
If I took my Cingular phone from the US into the UK I doubt it would work even for 112...(snip)...my brother in law. His phone uses PCS mine is GSM.I think GSM is widely used in Europe. Therefore, I expect your Cingular phone would work for 112/999 in the UK unless the UK's networks would not accept emergency calls from USA based handsets.

Recently I purchased a magazine I have never seen before from a local grocery store, the Spring 2005 issue of the Cell Phone Handbook, packed with information about cell phones. It includes world maps showing countries covered by various major wireless carriers. The world map on pages 046-047 of the magazine shows Cingular as usable in most of Europe's countries (including the UK) if you activate international roaming on your account. I don't know if (I doubt) you need to activate international roaming to use the UK's 112/999 emergency service.

The magazine also indicates T-Mobile (GSM) and Verizon Wireless (CDMA/GSM with the appropriate handset) will work in most of Europe while Nextel (iDEN) and Sprint PCS (CDMA) will not work in most of Europe.


[Editied to change my discussion of 112/999 to refer to "the UK" instead of "Europe" since I don't know which European countries do/do not offer 112/999 emergency service.]

[sami_sdata]

Thanks for the info. I'll have to read up on it a bit. I've got no first hand info on wireless outside the U.S. I give my older cellphones to my father. He won't pay for service but I like him to keep one charge and with him when he goes off alone on hunting trips. So many cell towers end up on top of the mountains that he usually has signal. As long as 911/#77 works he can at least call for help. #77 calls straight to the state police.