Abu Abbas captured in Iraq

[renata]

Just heard that on the radio, no links yet.

I had no idea the bastard was hiding in Iraq. I knew Abu Nidal was there (died under strange circumstances about a year ago). For those of you who do not know, Abu Abbas was the leader of the group (Palestinian Liberation Front) that hijacked Achille Lauro cruise liner in mid-80s, with elderly passengers aboard and killed an elderly man by pushing him over the edge in his wheelchair. For a while he was sheltered by the PLO and operating in the territories. I think he was tried in absentia in Italy, but did not serve any time. How did he end up in Iraq?

[corplinx]

Originally posted by renata
Just heard that on the radio, no links yet.

I had no idea the bastard was hiding in Iraq. I knew Abu Nidal was there (died under strange circumstances about a year ago). For those of you who do not know, Abu Abbas was the leader of the group (Palestinian Liberation Front) that hijacked Achille Lauro cruise liner in mid-80s, with elderly passengers aboard and killed an elderly man by pushing him over the edge in his wheelchair. For a while he was sheltered by the PLO and operating in the territories. I think he was tried in absentia in Italy, but did not serve any time. How did he end up in Iraq?



Most people have forgotten the PLF/PLO reign of terror. Italy prevented us from capturing this man. I hope now he gets his just due.

[Mel]

Originally posted by renata
How did he end up in Iraq?

Why not Iraq? The PLO wants to cover as wide a range as possible.

[renata]

Originally posted by Mel


Why not Iraq? The PLO wants to cover as wide a range as possible.

It does not surprise me he was hiding in Iraq. I just did not know that he was, and was hoping someone did.

[Mel]

I'm sure Saddam was well aware A.A. was operating in his country but I doubt he sent out formal announcements to his enemies. lol

So we can only seem to find people if we don't "know" their whereabouts? OBL, Saddam.... both officially MIA.

Weird, ain't it? :confused: lol

[WildCat]

Originally posted by renata
I had no idea the bastard was hiding in Iraq.
This was one of Bush's reasons for going to war in the first place. (http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=0&aid=415090448_breakingnews_story)
President Bush mentioned Abbas in an October speech in which he outlined the United States' argument for removing Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power.
But of course the Bush-is-Hitler people just dismissed it as Nazi lies. :rolleyes:

[iain]

Cross-posted from the thread cleopatra started on the same topic

From what I can see, this is a pretty funny story (not the hijacking, but the "capture" which the Americans are trumpeting as a major success, presumably because they haven't achieved anything better).

Everyone has known that Abu Abbas was in Iraq for years so this is nothing new.

The Israeli government was so convinced that he had renounced terrorism that they let him visit Gaza several times in the late 90's (according to a BBC report I heard this morning).

This is pretty much what many people (including myself) said could happen : if the coalition fails to find its real WMDs and terrorists, it will create major victories from very minor things.

[Troll]

Italy wants him extradited. The PLO wants him released.

The mind boggles

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by WildCat

This was one of Bush's reasons for going to war in the first place. (http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=0&aid=415090448_breakingnews_story)

But of course the Bush-is-Hitler people just dismissed it as Nazi lies. :rolleyes:

Show me where it was said.

[Troll]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Show me where it was said.

You got the link in the quote in your post and you ask to see where it was said? Ever try reading? It's not a complicated thing really

[WildCat]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Show me where it was said.
I thought I just did...
Originally posted by iain

The Israeli government was so convinced that he had renounced terrorism that they let him visit Gaza several times in the late 90's (according to a BBC report I heard this morning).

This is pretty much what many people (including myself) said could happen : if the coalition fails to find its real WMDs and terrorists, it will create major victories from very minor things.
I doubt the family of Leon Klinghoffer considers him a minor terrorist. They didn't sign any deals, the Clinton admin. did. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2952473.stm) Bush is not bound by that.
Send him on a plane to Cairo, w/ a stopover in Rome of course. Not our fault, don't ya know, those pesky airline schedules.

[iain]

Originally posted by WildCat
I doubt the family of Leon Klinghoffer considers him a minor terrorist. They didn't sign any deals, the Clinton admin. did. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2952473.stm) I'm sure you are right, but then even they might consider a war in which over a thousand people died at a cost of over $100 billion is a high price to pay to bring him to justice.

[Troll]

Originally posted by iain
I'm sure you are right, but then even they might consider a war in which over a thousand people died at a cost of over $100 billion is a high price to pay to bring him to justice.

I'm sure they would if that was the sole cause or reason for the war. But as it's no more than a bonus effect I'd have to say it wasn't the reason for the war or the deaths of those in the war. Wouldn't you agree?

[ceo_esq]

Originally posted by Troll
Italy wants him extradited. The PLO wants him released.

The mind boggles
Didn't the Italians refuse to extradite him to the United States back in the 80s (after the U.S. Navy forced down an airplane he was traveling in), preferring to try him in Italy instead? I believe he was tried, convicted and deported from Italy instead of serving time, IIRC.

[iain]

Originally posted by Troll


I'm sure they would if that was the sole cause or reason for the war. But as it's no more than a bonus effect I'd have to say it wasn't the reason for the war or the deaths of those in the war. Wouldn't you agree? I agree. The reason for war was very clearly stated by both Bush and Blair : to protect the West from the threat that Iraq and its WMDs posed.

There were other justifications given immediately prior to the war which included capturing terrorists hiding in Iraq and freeing the Iraqi people from Saddam. It may well be that, even if it turns out Iraq did not pose a serious threat to the West, the achievement of these will be enough to justify the war.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by WildCat

I thought I just did...





Re: Abu Abbas captured in Iraq

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by renata
I had no idea the bastard was hiding in Iraq.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


This was one of Bush's reasons for going to war in the first place.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
President Bush mentioned Abbas in an October speech in which he outlined the United States' argument for removing Iraqi President Saddam Hussein from power.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


But of course the Bush-is-Hitler people just dismissed it as Nazi lies.



where?

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by WildCat

This was one of Bush's reasons for going to war in the first place. (http://start.earthlink.net/newsarticle?cat=0&aid=415090448_breakingnews_story)

But of course the Bush-is-Hitler people just dismissed it as Nazi lies. :rolleyes:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A34067-2003Apr15.html
Achille Lauro Planner Captured
Special Operations Troops Arrest Abbas in Baghdad
...
Abbas, 54, who had spent much of the 1980s and early 1990s living in Tunisia, Algeria and Libya, is believed to have moved to Iraq in 1994.
...

So let me see,

Spending of well over $100 billion,
trashing the US/UN relationship,
driving away countries that should be allies (e.g. France and Russia),
the killing of hundreds (possibly thousands), and
getting the USA involved in months, and perhaps years, of Iraq stewardship just to catch one person.

At the very least, this is not a very effective use of resources because it would only take about a score of such cases to completely bankrupt the USA and leave it greatly weakend

However, expending vast resources just to capture a few high-profile criminals would serve the interests of enemies of the USA (due to the latest Gulf War there are now more these than ever before) because it is unlikely that they will sit around quietly while we sort our financial problems.

Go figure!

[Mel]

Originally posted by Crossbow


Spending of well over $100 billion,
trashing the US/UN relationship,
driving away countries that should be allies (e.g. France and Russia),
the killing of hundreds (possibly thousands), and
getting the USA involved in months, and perhaps years, of Iraq stewardship just to catch one person.

At the very least, this is not a very effective use of resources because it would only take about a score of such cases to completely bankrupt the USA and leave it greatly weakend

However, expending vast resources just to capture a few high-profile criminals would serve the interests of enemies of the USA (due to the latest Gulf War there are now more these than ever before) because it is unlikely that they will sit around quietly while we sort our financial problems.



However much it takes to clean up terrorists and the corrupt countries where they enjoy freedom, it's probably a bargain compared to cleaning up AFTER a major terrorist attack on US soil.

US/UN relationship? The UN is a burden..... a very EXPENSIVE burden.

When is the last time France or Russia were our "allies?" Maybe during the Gulf War? But then again, Syria was also playing the part of ally then..... France, Russia & Syria.... who needs any of them?

To say we fought this war for ANY one reason is off the mark. The fact that there were so many good reasons to go into Iraq seems to be why Bush had trouble making a CLEAR and CONVINCING case to the international community. (And the fact that he's so arrogant and has no diplomatic skills didn't help either)

[Clancie]

And, for a different point of view....

...Abbas was allowed to return to the Gaza Strip by an Israeli Security Committee which concluded he had renounced violence.

GAZA — The Palestinian Authority demanded on Wednesday the United States free Palestinian guerrilla leader Abu Abbas, saying his detention by U.S. forces in Iraq violated a Middle East peace deal signed by Washington.

...Abbas was sentenced in absentia in Italy to life in prison for planning the hijacking. Although he was the target of a manhunt after the incident, Washington dropped a warrant for his arrest several years ago.

"The Palestinian-Israeli interim agreement signed on September 28, 1995 stated that members of the Palestine Liberation Organization must not be detained or tried for matters they committed before the Oslo peace accord of September 13, 1993,'' Erekat said (speaking for the Palestinian Authority).

``This interim agreement was signed on the U.S. side by President Clinton and his secretary of state, Warren Christopher,'' Erekat added.

...In 1998, the Israeli Supreme Court, citing the interim peace deals with the Palestinians, declared Abbas immune from prosecution in Israel over the ship's hijacking.

...Abbas was allowed to return to the Gaza Strip by an Israeli Security Committee which concluded he had renounced violence.


http://www.nytimes.com/reuters/international/international-iraq-abbas-palestinians.html

[Mel]

Originally posted by Clancy
And, for a different point of view....

[B]...Abbas was allowed to return to the Gaza Strip by an Israeli Security Committee which concluded he had renounced violence.

Boy, I sure hope they didn't allow him to return with the thoughts of hunting him down like a dirty dog and accidently putting a bullet through his head???

Nah!!!! They'd never do something like THAT. :D

[renata]

Originally posted by ceo_esq

Didn't the Italians refuse to extradite him to the United States back in the 80s (after the U.S. Navy forced down an airplane he was traveling in), preferring to try him in Italy instead? I believe he was tried, convicted and deported from Italy instead of serving time, IIRC.

I think when the hijackers were given over to Italian authorities, Italian magistrate refused to detain Abbas, because there was not enough evidence of his involvement. He was released, a few days later the charges were brought, but by then he disappeared. He was tried in absentia in italy, and sentenced to life in prison. Italy is currently seeking his extradition.

I also heard on NPR this morning that it was not just Abbas that was arrested, but several other operatives of the PLF. There were documents seized that suggested Abbas was involved in the recent violence, and may have facilited the payments from Saddam to suicide bombers. Of course, this is new info, and we will have to wait until it is verified. Will not surprise me, though.

[Mel]

Originally posted by renata


I also heard on NPR this morning that it was not just Abbas that was arrested, but several other operatives of the PLF. There were documents seized that suggested Abbas was involved in the recent violence, and may have facilited the payments from Saddam to suicide bombers. Of course, this is new info, and we will have to wait until it is verified. Will not surprise me, though.

I'm becoming more & more convinced that the Israelis WANTED him to return so they could take care of hiim.

The complete rehabilitation of terrorists that drown the disabled is..... I"m guessing...... around ZERO PERCENT.

[renata]

Originally posted by Clancy
And, for a different point of view....

[B]...Abbas was allowed to return to the Gaza Strip by an Israeli Security Committee which concluded he had renounced violence.

He still has to serve his life sentence in Italy, as it was not a party to the agreement. Do you think all murderers should go free if they are on the run and renounce violence in the meanwhile? Do you recall the case of Sara Olson? She was on the run for 25 years, and renounced violence. After she was caught, she was sentenced for 20 years for the bomb plot.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A39372-2003Apr16.html



AS SAYLIYA CAMP, Qatar - Italy said Wednesday that it would seek the extradition of captured Palestinian Abu Abbas, mastermind of the 1985 hijacking of an Italian cruise ship.

The Palestinian Authority demanded his release, saying his detention violated a 1995 Middle East peace deal.

But the United States, whose special forces seized Abbas in Baghdad Monday, said that deal concerned arrangements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

"It does not apply to the legal status of persons detained in a third country," a U.S. State Department official said.

Abbas, who is also known as Mohammed Abbas and is now in his mid-50s, spent much of the past 17 years in Baghdad.

In the hijacking of the Achille Lauro, guerrillas killed a disabled elderly American Jewish passenger, Leon Klinghoffer, shooting him and pushing his wheelchair over the side.

.....



In Rome, Justice Minister Roberto Castelli said Italy was anxious to put Abbas on trial. He said the Italian government had asked Egypt and Jordan in recent months for his extradition when Rome believed that he may have been in those countries.

.....

Abbas was not aboard the Achille Lauro, but Italian courts sentenced him in absentia to life in prison for planning the operation. After the hijacking ended at Port Said in Egypt, the four hijackers freed the passengers and managed to escape.

Days later, U.S. jet fighters intercepted an Egyptian plane carrying them and Abbas to freedom in Tunisia and forced it to land at a NATO air base at Sigonella, Sicily.

A tense standoff between U.S. troops and Italian police at the air base ensued. The four hijackers were arrested but then Prime Minister Bettino Craxi, a Socialist, let Abbas fly to Yugoslavia and freedom.

The United States was outraged by Craxi's decision and the episode sparked one of the worst crises between Rome and Washington since the end of World War Two.

In 1998, the Israeli Supreme Court, citing interim peace deals with the Palestinians, declared Abbas immune from prosecution in Israel over the ship's hijacking.

[VernorsRush]

Originally posted by WildCat
They didn't sign any deals, the Clinton admin. did. (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/2952473.stm) Bush is not bound by that Point of order here, are you saying that a currently serving administration is not bound by agreements signed by a previous administration?