The Picture.............

Here is a picture from the Associated Press.

Any comments? Or is "everything" on it?

http://www.eluniverso.com/core/eluniverso.asp?page=internacionales&id=14&tab=1

[Denise]

I don't read or speak Spanish. Can you tell me what the story is about?

The associated Press picture:

[Sanamas]

There's a star of David on Saddam's forehead, and there's a boot on him, which I think I read somewhere is something that's considered a sign of disrespect.

Originally posted by Denise
I don't read or speak Spanish. Can you tell me what the story is about?

Hi Denisse:

I didn't pretend to polemize about how can international press can interpretate the image posted.
Is just an international new.

The details: the head of the "famous" or "infamous" statue of Saddam, a mark of the star of David (jews) and a boot from a soldier (coalition ?).

I just want to know how this type of images can be interpretated in this forum.

Thanks,
S&S

[Richard G]

Um, Arabs hate Jews? Even free, liberated Arabs?

[Denise]

I want to know the who, where, when, why, what questions.

Originally posted by Richard G
Um, Arabs hate Jews? Even free, liberated Arabs?

Hi Richard:

What do you mean by "liberated"?

Those are already free liberated nations. Diferent cultures and religions , but I never heard they want to be "liberated ".

Liberated by whom or who?

Thanks,
S&S

Originally posted by Denise
I want to know the who, where, when, why, what questions.

Hi Denise:

About the picture:

Who?
The picture is from the associated press http://www.ap.org/

Where? The picture was shot in Iraq.

When? I saw it today in a local newspaper.

Why? because is related to the actual War.

What? Is the question I want you to solve , if you want.
You have the details now.

Thanks,
S&S

[Denise]

Originally posted by S&S


Hi Denise:

About the picture:

Who?
The picture is from the associated press http://www.ap.org/

Where? The picture was shot in Iraq.

When? I saw it today in a local newspaper.

Why? because is related to the actual War.

What? Is the question I want you to solve , if you want.
You have the details now.

Thanks,
S&S

Here is what I think about the picture. I think the statue might have been vandalized by an Arab who is angry at the United States and wants to show a connection to Israel to rile up the other Arabs. That is a possibility and one that I am leaning towards. Kind of like the desecration of the British war dead cemetary in France. Most French do not disparage the English for helping them in World War 2, and I doubt that most Iraqi's see a connection with the war and Israel. But you always have some who want to stir the pot so to speak.

[Mel]

OR......

It's possible that an Iraqi Jew was the one that left that 'message.'

[KelvinG]

To me that picture symbolizes how short and fragile our existence as human beings is, and how we must embrace each day with a spirit and energy that makes every moment worth living.

[kourama]

A combat boot on a human head.

Wasn't that O'Briens symbol for humanity in "1984"?

[hgc]

kourama:
A combat boot on a human head.

Wasn't that O'Briens symbol for humanity in "1984"?
"History is a boot stomping in a human face forever."

[Frank Newgent]

Quizas el artista cree que sea una diferencia pequeña entre Sharon y Hussein. Y tan dejó su bota donde se cayó para demonstrar una falta de respeto para el dos, guey...

Perdon mi Español.

[wayrad]

Looks like the boot was left by 1) an Iraqi who was unhappy with Saddam, 2) a non-Iraqi Arab who was unhappy with Saddam, 3) an American or British soldier who was familiar (as are we all by now from watching the news) with the use of shoes to signify contempt in the Arab world, and also was unhappy with Saddam, OR 4) a photographer who wanted an interestingly symbolic picture (no conclusion can be drawn about his feelings toward Saddam).

The star? Perhaps 1)an Iraqi who didn't like Jews OR Saddam, 2) a non-Iraqi Arab, etc; 3) A Jewish person who didn't like Saddam (quite unlikely that they would do anything so inflammatory, I should think), 4) An Iraqui who DID like Saddam and thought that the coalition was promoting Israeli interests; OR 5) the aforementioned photographer. Note that it need not have been the same person that left the shoe.

[Pyrrho]

The shoe on Saddam's head is an extreme insult among Arabs. When the Iraqi Information Minister said that Bush and Blair "should be hit with old shoes", he was speaking an insult. When Saddam's statue was pulled down, Iraqis threw shoes at it in a gesture of contempt.

The Star of David on Saddam's forehead is, of course, another form of insult.

References:

http://straitstimes.asia1.com.sg/iraqwar/story/0,4395,182577,00.html

ARABS consider showing the lowliest and dirtiest part of the body to be the worst offence imaginable.


Showing his contempt for Mr Saddam Hussein, an Iraqi uses a slipper to slap the face of the statue of the Iraqi leader in Baghdad. Pointing the sole at anyone is considered a big insult in the Middle East. -- AFP
Which is why in Baghdad on Wednesday, about 300 Iraqis were expressing their contempt for President Saddam Hussein in the most powerful way they could - by beating his statues and portraits with their shoes.

Pointing the sole of your foot at anyone is an insult in the Middle East. Throughout history, Arabs have shown contempt by pointing a dirty shoe at another person.

http://call.army.mil/products/newsltrs/90-7/chp8.htm

Handshaking/Sitting --Shake hands whenever meeting an Arab, and when leaving him. Never sit and expose the sole of one's shoes or bottoms of feet to an Arab. It is regarded as an insult.

Other sources:

http://www.google.com/search?q=shoes+arabs+insult&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8&safe=off&start=10&sa=N

...if you can avoid the numerous sources for a certain joke...

[wayrad]

This actually raises some interesting questions regarding art interpretation, i.e the relative value of the viewer's perceptions versus the artist's intentions. Without Saddam's face to make us think of the shoe in the context of Arab culture, a Westerner would likely consider it a symbol of conquest or subjugation. So if we had no knowledge whatsoever about the situation, we couldn't really interpret what is going on except in subjective terms. I'm not sure whether this is in fact what the original poster is asking us to do. It's certainly what my freshman art appreciation instructor expected, which is probably why I got a lousy grade (being much more interested in what the artist had in mind in the context of his culture, when actually I was supposed to say something like "The size of Jesus in relation to the Apostles in this icon increases my feelings of reverence and awe". Bleccch).

My english is not to good (neither my spanish spelling of "pubis"), so I must clarify(...) some terms:

When I wrote "picture" I meaned a photograph published by the Associated Press in almost all newspaper of the world.

"Picture" can be interpretated as a painted art work. It is not that case.

But I also know that photography is a kind of art work.

The messages on it can be interpretated in many subjectives ways. We have read some of them in this forum.

One of the multiple interpretations I heard (not necessarily my opinion) are that the 3 factors are closely connected , and have the power to destroy our beautiful world.

Thanks,
S&S

[wayrad]

Originally posted by S&S
My english is not to good (neither my spanish spelling of "pubis"), so I must clarify(...) some terms:

When I wrote "picture" I meaned a photograph published by the Associated Press in almost all newspaper of the world.

"Picture" can be interpretated as a painted art work. It is not that case.

But I also know that photography is a kind of art work.

The messages on it can be interpretated in many subjectives ways. We have read some of them in this forum.

One of the multiple interpretations I heard (not necessarily my opinion) are that the 3 factors are closely connected , and have the power to destroy our beautiful world.

Thanks,
S&S

If one is considering a photo as art, subjective interpretations are fine (although they aren't my cup of tea - at least getting graded on them isn't). But if one takes it as political commentary, does it not have meaning only in terms of the intention of the person who made the statement?

If a photo has an image of a political success , interpretaions of that political success are welcome , once is publisshed.

Is how ART works.

I am also an artist.

Thanks,
S&S

[Checkmite]

What does the photo say to you, Carlos?

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi
What does the photo say to you, Carlos?

Hi Joshua:

I will prefer your answer first.
I am the author of the opening post and clarified:"I just want to know how this type of images can be interpretated in this forum."

If you don't want to give an answer , for your specific reasons , you are free to do it.

Thanks,
S&S

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by Denise
I don't read or speak Spanish. Can you tell me what the story is about?

My Spanish is rusty as hell, but here is my weak attempt to interpret the caption under the photo:

"One star of David, symbol of Judaism <something-something> on the forehead of the statue of the president of Iraq, Saddam Hussein. The majority of Arabs condemn the politics of military repression of the Jewish State of Israel against the Palestinians."

[Checkmite]

Originally posted by S&amp;S


Hi Joshua:

I will prefer your answer first.
I am the author of the opening post and clarified:"I just want to know how this type of images can be interpretated in this forum."

If you don't want to give an answer , for your specific reasons , you are free to do it.

Thanks,
S&S

Well, many people have already given answers. What is yours?

I think it's also meant to show disrespect to both Saddam and Israel. Equating Saddam with Israel would be an ultimate insult to him, as much as he hated Israel. The boot, of course, symbolizes contempt for both of them.

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi


Well, many people have already given answers. What is yours?

I think it's also meant to show disrespect to both Saddam and Israel. Equating Saddam with Israel would be an ultimate insult to him, as much as he hated Israel. The boot, of course, symbolizes contempt for both of them.

Hi JK:

In your interpretation, the boot represents the coalition army?

Thanks,
S&S

[The Central Scrutinizer]

Originally posted by S&amp;S

I just want to know how this type of images can be interpretated in this forum.


It can be interpreted as a bust of Saddam with a star of David etched in his forehead and a boot on top of his head.

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


It can be interpreted as a bust of Saddam with a star of David etched in his forehead and a boot on top of his head.

Hi C.E. :

Wow, you have eyes! And are working.
hmmmm.

Thanks,
S&S

[Ben Shniper]

Originally posted by S&amp;S


Hi C.E. :

Wow, you have eyes! And are working.
hmmmm.

Thanks,
S&S

If it was a real instance of an existing statue in Iraq, then it most probably is this:

Saddam has been discreditted by saying that he was working at the behest of zionist entities, because his army was so easily defeated and he is nowhere to be found. Hence he made a deal with America or Israel to leave and not fight America's invasion (according to many Arab fantasies).

Hence the star of david on his head. Also, the boot to show additional disrespect.

This is an expression of Arab fantasy juxtapose with the cold harsh reality: Arabs had been living under a hated tyrant for 30 years who kept his rule by inflaming passions against the Arab "enemies" of Israel and America. As well as Iran and Kuwait. Oh, and the Soviet Union and Islamic fundamentalists from time to time.

All waved in front of the Arab audiences to justify harsh tyranny and excessive, counter-productive military spending that only weakened the economy and thus lessened Iraq's economic power, which is what allows a military to be funded in the first place.

Why spend all the public's money on a military whose real goal turned out to be keeping the thugs in power? Because of all the "enemies", including Kurds and Shiite "rebels" who Saddam was happy to massacre at will.

Now we should clearly see the result of the years of lies in the Arab press.

Suddenly someone who is famous for launching Scuds at Israel for practically no reason, is considderred a "Zionist agent", and treated with just that much disrespect as he treated his enemies with.

Or it's a boot on a guys head with a star on his face to arouse artistic relevance.

-Ben

[aerocontrols]

Originally posted by kourama
A combat boot on a human head.

I think this looks like the opposite.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by The Central Scrutinizer


It can be interpreted as a bust of Saddam with a star of David etched in his forehead and a boot on top of his head.

Strange... I was going to say something similar. Damn the skeptic in me! :D

edited to add:
Although I have to admit at first glance I thought the boot was a pigeon... such is the joy of astigmatism!

[wayrad]

Originally posted by BillyTK


edited to add:
Although I have to admit at first glance I thought the boot was a pigeon... such is the joy of astigmatism!

You too? :D

[Mel]

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi


I think it's also meant to show disrespect to both Saddam and Israel. Equating Saddam with Israel would be an ultimate insult to him, as much as he hated Israel. The boot, of course, symbolizes contempt for both of them.

I'd tend to agree with this popular opinion and so I was rather shocked to read this article in NEWSDAY: (Exiled Iraqi Jews Yearn To Go Home) (http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/world/ny-woexil113221403apr15.story)

Here is an excerpt:

Jews of Iraq trace their roots back about 2,600 years. And though their population has fluctuated, they were integrated and active in the Iraqi community up to World War II. Then Nazism and Arab nationalism coalesced with violent results, including anti-Zionist riots and the killing of 150 Iraqi Jews in 1941. An increasingly inhospitable atmosphere and the lure of a Jewish homeland in Israel prompted the exodus of 120,000 Jews in 1950-1951.

In 1991, 2,000 Jews were left in Iraq. Today there are 33, according to Ben-Porat, founder of the Babylonian Jewry Heritage Center, a museum here.

Baghdad's surviving Jews have been sustained, in part, by an unexpected benevolence from Hussein, who maintained several important religious sites and paid to restore Baghdad's Meir Tweg synagogue, the last one in Iraq. At least until contact with the capital was lost a week ago, the synagogue was sheltering residents and holding services.

Hussein's relationship to the Jews was indeed more complex than his anti-Israel pronouncements or 1991 missile strikes against Israel would suggest. It is widely recounted here that Hussein's mother wanted to abort him but Jewish neighbors in his hometown intervened and coached her to delivery. There also have been reports of discreet contacts between the Hussein regime and Israel over the years.

"He had, and he has, a very narrow corner in favor of the Jews because of the memory of his neighbors in Tikrit," said Mordechai Ben-Porat, 79, an Iraqi Jew who as an undercover Israeli agent helped orchestrate the exodus from Iraq. "Still, we know what Saddam Hussein has done and what he is all about." Iraqis don't envision a future in their former country. But still, the old men of Or Yehuda excitedly anticipate returning before they die. "I am a Jew," Paamon said. "But I was born in Iraq. I grew up there. My life was there."

Originally posted by Joshua Korosi



What is yours?




Is time to give My interpretation:

The 3 symbols together (now) : the army boot, the star of David and the head of Saddam.

Just one word : DEATH

I wish it could be peace.

Thanks,
S&S