New Book by Tammy Bruce

[Jedi Knight]

This is a chunk of Chapter 1 of Tammy Bruce's new book, "The Death of Right and Wrong: Exposing the Left's Assault on Our Culture and Values"

As quoted by Tammy Bruce: "The Left Elite has worked for years to brainwash us into a sort of values lobotomy. We are not to judge those who kill, if the guilty are people of color or women; we are to excuse those who destroy lives as victims of a racist, sexist, and homophobic world, or now, on the global scale, the unfair and oppressive “multinational corporate” world; we are to blame the innocent and lionize the guilty.

And if you dare to say you don’t believe injustice to be justice, then, as I demonstrated in The New Thought Police, you will be dismissed as sexist, racist, or homophobic. We have been led behind the Looking Glass, where everything is the opposite of what it should be.

How does the Left Elite indoctrinate decent, thoughtful people into accepting, as an example, that some killers are victims and deserve to be set free? Keep in mind, I speak of the Elite not necessarily as a cabal, but as a group of people who share certain basic assumptions, a certain world view. One now-accomplished goal is the brainwashing of society into believing that because of the color of their skin, or their gender, or their sexual preference, some in our “multicultural society” can never be understood by others, making judgment and punishment inappropriate. The corollaries are that traditional concepts of personal responsibility are outdated, and that expecting others to behave with dignity, and expecting society to recognize the concepts of right and wrong, is contrary to the ideal of liberty. Every idea, every act, has the same value--none is more worthy than another. Of course, this effort has to start with convincing you that the standards by which you were raised were wrong. Your ideas about religion, family, and sex are wrong, perhaps even harmful…

How best to change Americans’ fundamental values? How best to indoctrinate you into a culture that grows sicker and more corrupt by the minute? As I will discuss in more detail in the chapters that follow, the Left Elite uses every medium at its disposal--television, film, music, and art; politics and the justice system; higher education and the news media. One of its most important tools is constant special-interest-group rhetoric.

Keep in mind, the leftism I’m describing has nothing to do with the classical liberalism on which our country was founded--the political philosophy based on individual freedom. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The Left has had to restrict individual freedom of thought and deed in order to destroy the concept of judgment and undermine notions of right and wrong that have been held nearly universally for millennia. This is the result of the wrong people getting control of our culture at a time when we were vulnerable. It’s that simple and that scary. It also can be reversed without having to diminish the benefits of liberty that flow naturally from our system and our hearts.

The Legacy of the Left

I’m an odd bird on today’s Left--I actually believe that we can embrace individual liberty while also applying some standard of dignity to the way we lead our lives. As a gay woman, I live a life made possible by the tolerance of the average American.

The efforts of activists in the 1960s to bring about an environment that would be safer for homosexual adults, and generally freer for all those who are minorities in our society, have been generally recognized as a good thing. Now, on the contrary, I see the Left demonizing the very idea of decency in their determination to lobotomize Americans into a foggy silence about anything cultural. In truth, being gay and living with decency and dignity are not exclusive concepts. But the Left has dirtied those words to such a degree that when I’ve used them in conversation they have elicited the same reaction as if I had suddenly uttered the word ******. Friends have urged me not even to use the word morality because it was too “loaded.” All the more reason to dust it off!

You don’t, after all, need to be steeped in religious fundamentalism to realize things have gone terribly wrong. I personally refuse to be silent when a movement I’ve worked for, believing it was meant to expand tolerance and increase liberty, devolves into an effort to eliminate all value-based concepts.

For example, as a gay woman, I expect tolerance. But I understand that tolerance is not “acceptance” or “buy-in.” I don’t expect other women to run out and become lesbians just because they tolerate me, or even if they like me or admire the stands I have taken. A fundamentalist Christian may think my lifestyle is wrong, but it’s not by fundamentalist Christians that I have been attacked and demonized over the last seven years.

A good example of the difference between today’s Right and today’s Left can be seen in their reaction to murder. People on the Right, no matter how strongly opposed to abortion they are, nearly all recognize that anti-abortion activists who kill doctors are wrong. Contrast that with the Left’s lionization of black men who kill whites, and especially white police officers.

The noble effort in the 1960s to encourage individuality apparently had no braking mechanism. It continued to a point where self-gratification became the goal, at the expense of values that could co-exist with and even enhance our new-found sense of our individuality and sexual self-awareness. Faith, family, fidelity, truth, and honor all became casualties of America’s Cultural Elite. Tolerance, once a genuine American ideal, has become a code word for moral relativism and all its side-effects. Once it was realized that the American people were willing to accept diversity and even some challenge to the status quo, the Left’s goal changed from extending the boundaries of what was considered right, to having no boundaries at all. Moral relativism became the order of the day--a view that moral standards are entirely grounded in social custom, varying from culture to culture, moment to moment, circumstance to circumstance...

The death of right and wrong …may be more easily seen by taking a look at the core of our culture--the art world. The disintegration of our culture, and the conditioning of people into accepting it in silence, begins with legitimizing the depraved. This requires a trip to San Francisco…."--endquote.

Wow, that is powerful stuff, and almost sounds like the observations that I make about the radical left. I am pleased that I am not the only one who sees what is going wrong inside our country and beyond.

Jedi Knight

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
This is a chunk of Chapter 1 of Tammy Bruce's new book, "The Death of Right and Wrong: Exposing the Left's Assault on Our Culture and Values"

As quoted by Tammy Bruce: "The Left Elite has worked for years to brainwash us into a sort of values lobotomy. We are not to judge those who kill, if the guilty are people of color or women; we are to excuse those who destroy lives as victims of a racist, sexist, and homophobic world, or now, on the global scale, the unfair and oppressive “multinational corporate” world; we are to blame the innocent and lionize the guilty.

And if you dare to say you don’t believe injustice to be justice, then, as I demonstrated in The New Thought Police, you will be dismissed as sexist, racist, or homophobic. We have been led behind the Looking Glass, where everything is the opposite of what it should be.

How does the Left Elite indoctrinate decent, thoughtful people into accepting, as an example, that some killers are victims and deserve to be set free? Keep in mind, I speak of the Elite not necessarily as a cabal, but as a group of people who share certain basic assumptions, a certain world view. One now-accomplished goal is the brainwashing of society into believing that because of the color of their skin, or their gender, or their sexual preference, some in our “multicultural society” can never be understood by others, making judgment and punishment inappropriate. The corollaries are that traditional concepts of personal responsibility are outdated, and that expecting others to behave with dignity, and expecting society to recognize the concepts of right and wrong, is contrary to the ideal of liberty. Every idea, every act, has the same value--none is more worthy than another. Of course, this effort has to start with convincing you that the standards by which you were raised were wrong. Your ideas about religion, family, and sex are wrong, perhaps even harmful…

How best to change Americans’ fundamental values? How best to indoctrinate you into a culture that grows sicker and more corrupt by the minute? As I will discuss in more detail in the chapters that follow, the Left Elite uses every medium at its disposal--television, film, music, and art; politics and the justice system; higher education and the news media. One of its most important tools is constant special-interest-group rhetoric.

Keep in mind, the leftism I’m describing has nothing to do with the classical liberalism on which our country was founded--the political philosophy based on individual freedom. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The Left has had to restrict individual freedom of thought and deed in order to destroy the concept of judgment and undermine notions of right and wrong that have been held nearly universally for millennia. This is the result of the wrong people getting control of our culture at a time when we were vulnerable. It’s that simple and that scary. It also can be reversed without having to diminish the benefits of liberty that flow naturally from our system and our hearts.

The Legacy of the Left

I’m an odd bird on today’s Left--I actually believe that we can embrace individual liberty while also applying some standard of dignity to the way we lead our lives. As a gay woman, I live a life made possible by the tolerance of the average American.

The efforts of activists in the 1960s to bring about an environment that would be safer for homosexual adults, and generally freer for all those who are minorities in our society, have been generally recognized as a good thing. Now, on the contrary, I see the Left demonizing the very idea of decency in their determination to lobotomize Americans into a foggy silence about anything cultural. In truth, being gay and living with decency and dignity are not exclusive concepts. But the Left has dirtied those words to such a degree that when I’ve used them in conversation they have elicited the same reaction as if I had suddenly uttered the word ******. Friends have urged me not even to use the word morality because it was too “loaded.” All the more reason to dust it off!

You don’t, after all, need to be steeped in religious fundamentalism to realize things have gone terribly wrong. I personally refuse to be silent when a movement I’ve worked for, believing it was meant to expand tolerance and increase liberty, devolves into an effort to eliminate all value-based concepts.

For example, as a gay woman, I expect tolerance. But I understand that tolerance is not “acceptance” or “buy-in.” I don’t expect other women to run out and become lesbians just because they tolerate me, or even if they like me or admire the stands I have taken. A fundamentalist Christian may think my lifestyle is wrong, but it’s not by fundamentalist Christians that I have been attacked and demonized over the last seven years.

A good example of the difference between today’s Right and today’s Left can be seen in their reaction to murder. People on the Right, no matter how strongly opposed to abortion they are, nearly all recognize that anti-abortion activists who kill doctors are wrong. Contrast that with the Left’s lionization of black men who kill whites, and especially white police officers.

The noble effort in the 1960s to encourage individuality apparently had no braking mechanism. It continued to a point where self-gratification became the goal, at the expense of values that could co-exist with and even enhance our new-found sense of our individuality and sexual self-awareness. Faith, family, fidelity, truth, and honor all became casualties of America’s Cultural Elite. Tolerance, once a genuine American ideal, has become a code word for moral relativism and all its side-effects. Once it was realized that the American people were willing to accept diversity and even some challenge to the status quo, the Left’s goal changed from extending the boundaries of what was considered right, to having no boundaries at all. Moral relativism became the order of the day--a view that moral standards are entirely grounded in social custom, varying from culture to culture, moment to moment, circumstance to circumstance...

The death of right and wrong …may be more easily seen by taking a look at the core of our culture--the art world. The disintegration of our culture, and the conditioning of people into accepting it in silence, begins with legitimizing the depraved. This requires a trip to San Francisco…."--endquote.

Wow, that is powerful stuff, and almost sounds like the observations that I make about the radical left. I am pleased that I am not the only one who sees what is going wrong inside our country and beyond.

Jedi Knight

BS

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Q-Source


BS

It is awesome writing by an awesome conservative, Q. What parts do you disagree with?

JK

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Q-Source


BS

An astute analysis, deconstruction and rebuttal!!!

:rolleyes:

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


It is awesome writing by an awesome conservative, Q. What parts do you disagree with?

JK

I would answer your question, but you asked me not to talk to you again... :cool:

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


An astute analysis, deconstruction and rebuttal!!!

:rolleyes:

Q's response is typical. She can't say why she disagrees because that just opens the door for more debate. No, rather she will just say "BS", and hope the leftist legions will pile on and support her without providing further information (you know, groupthink, a critical left-wing condition of solidarity to untruths).

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Q-Source


I would answer your question, but you asked me not to talk to you again... :cool:

Then why did you bother posting in my thread? One keystroke made in my thread is replying to me. Or was your "BS" reply simply a hasty definition of everything you believe innerly?

JK

[Q-Source]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Q's response is typical. She can't say why she disagrees because that just opens the door for more debate. No, rather she will just say "BS", and hope the leftist legions will pile on and support her without providing further information (you know, groupthink, a critical left-wing condition of solidarity to untruths).




Oh, no.

You know I LOVE to debate

I have tried to have rational and adult debates with you sometimes, but it is rather strange that you ALWAYS abandon or ignore my posts when we start discussing topics seriously, especially in those threads about Feminism.

I have records of all them...

Q

BTW, This is a JREF's message board. Starting a thread does not imply that it belongs to you or that I cannot post on them just because you asked me not to talk to you again. :rolleyes:

ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH red fonts have mercy on my dyslexia please now I am suffering bad jumpy words:(

[Thanz]

Who exactly is this radical Left that is celebrating cop killers, etc? I realize this is just an introduction to her book, but some concrete examples would be nice. I just don't see the death of right and wrong - you have a conservative president who has definite notions of right and wrong.

Really, the "Left" as described here seems just as shadowy as any conspiracy theory about some "military-industrial complex" who really run our lives.

The problem is not the "Left" - it is the death of personal responsibility in general. I don't think that this can all be laid at the feet of the "Left". Turn on the tv any day and on any talk show people are whining about their lives, seeking attention, but not actually doing anything about the situations they create. I don't think it is a right or left issue.

[Crossbow]

So far there are two people who abscribe to the JK view of American Politics.

Well, that is at least one person more than those who abscribe to JK views of physics and cosmology.

In any event, JK needs to understand the Forum rules regarding ownership; the threads he starts are not his personal property.

The JREF is a privately owned and operated organization.
-As a result, it must manage the forum for the greater benefit of the JREF. Any and all decisions made by the forum Administrator may be appealed first to Linda and then (if desired) to Mr. Randi. In all cases, they shall have the final and complete say on any forum management issue.

[Denise]

Originally posted by Biker Babe
ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH red fonts have mercy on my dyslexia please now I am suffering bad jumpy words:(

If you have a problem with red fonts, you can highlight it to read it.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Q-Source



Oh, no.

You know I LOVE to debate

I have tried to have rational and adult debates with you sometimes, but it is rather strange that you ALWAYS abandon or ignore my posts when we start discussing topics seriously, especially in those threads about Feminism.

I have records of all them...

Q

BTW, This is a JREF's message board. Starting a thread does not imply that it belongs to you or that I cannot post on them just because you asked me not to talk to you again. :rolleyes:

I have annihilated every leftist idea you ever came up with Q. So tell me, what is wrong with Tammy's accurate intro in her new book?

You know, if Tammy wasn't a homosexual, I would ask her out to a date. I like how that chick thinks.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Crossbow
So far there are two people who abscribe to the JK view of American Politics.

Well, that is at least one person more than those who abscribe to JK views of physics and cosmology.

In any event, JK needs to understand the Forum rules regarding ownership; the threads he starts are not his personal property.

The JREF is a privately owned and operated organization.
-As a result, it must manage the forum for the greater benefit of the JREF. Any and all decisions made by the forum Administrator may be appealed first to Linda and then (if desired) to Mr. Randi. In all cases, they shall have the final and complete say on any forum management issue.

Yes, yes, I can feel your anger...you are slowly falling towards the dark side.

JK

[Supercharts]

http://www.tammybruce.com/

"Tammy Bruce is an openly gay, pro-choice, gun owning, pro-death penalty, voted-for-President Reagan progressive feminist."

[rikzilla]

Great article JK,

Thanks for sharing. It seems to go right to the heart of the debate I had with Vic over on the "where's the chemical weapons" thread.

The world according to the left seems like a valueless place in which no foreign policy decision, no matter how well thought out, can be taken because we get our morality through our culture...and therefore our decisions can never be "right" according to any culture not our own. If this were our guiding principle then a foreign policy paralysis would be the only possible result. IMHO, just what the organizers behind WWP and ANSWER are angling for. :(

-z

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Great article JK,

Thanks for sharing. It seems to go right to the heart of the debate I had with Vic over on the "where's the chemical weapons" thread.

The world according to the left seems like a valueless place in which no foreign policy decision, no matter how well thought out, can be taken because we get our morality through our culture...and therefore our decisions can never be "right" according to any culture not our own. If this were our guiding principle then a foreign policy paralysis would be the only possible result. IMHO, just what the organizers behind WWP and ANSWER are angling for. :(

-z

I had to quote Tammy's new book because there is a movement on in this forum by leftists to say that my "views" are solely my own and not shared by others. As you can see, not only does Tammy share my views, she writes about them to make money.

Hmmm....imagine a political text by Jedi lol.

JK

[Suddenly]

Jedi,

If you do requests, could you explain just what this "left" is that you decry? Not just what they do, but who they are. It seems to me at this point that you use the word simply to define things you do not like, as a synonymn for "jerk" or something of that nature.

Despite the dramatic and combative way you express yourself I do have sort of a feel for what you are trying to express, and I am not completely unsympathetic. You remind me of one of my old Political Science professors. You just have an unfortunate habit of slipping into sensationalistic absurdity (i.e. no such thing as an battered woman), and that has damaged your credibility. Just calm down, and quit using the word "left" as an unexplained slur, and you may be able to spend more time on the rational basis of your views than in a flame match with those that are at this point simply hostile to anything you have to say.

I was impressed by your post in the editorial thread regarding multicuturalism and the middle east. I don't necessarily agree with all of it, but those that responded with garbage definately lost some respect from me (not that they would care).

Don't let the bastards get you down.

[NightG1]

Originally posted by Thanz
Who exactly is this radical Left that is celebrating cop killers, etc?
I want to know about this "values lobotomy" thingy. That might come in handy sometimes.

[corplinx]

She has unfortunately fallen into blaming a very large group "the left" and painting them all into the same positions.

Not every left-leaning persons supports cop-killers of course. If you did a survey, my guess is you would find most people have no sympathy for a black man who kills a white cop.

Unless her book has good statistics showing that the occasional radical liberal has significantly altered public viewpoint about such things, then her arguements have no basis except her own "perception of how things are".

[RandFan]

I am a huge Tammy Bruce fan. I would not label her a conservative. Tammy supported the civil rights movement of the 60s and as head of the Los Angeles chapter of NOW she fought hard for womens rights. Like Camille Paglia Tammy noticed that the womens movement had moved beyond what she thought it should be and had embraced victomology and had become militant and intolerant of certain view points.

I think her book makes some very significant points. I don't think she would embrace a number of Jedi's views of women. BTJMO.

[Smalso]

I think her book makes some very significant points. I don't think she would embrace a number of Jedi's views of women. BTJMO.

There are a great many conservative writers who would not agree with JK's views on a lot of things.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Suddenly
Jedi,

If you do requests, could you explain just what this "left" is that you decry? Not just what they do, but who they are. It seems to me at this point that you use the word simply to define things you do not like, as a synonymn for "jerk" or something of that nature.

No, I do not use the word "leftist" as I would "jerk" or "moron". "Jerk" or "moron" are terms that I use sometimes to define uneducated responses to my posts. "Leftist" is a term I use to respond to folks with 1/2 an education that have a sinister edge.The "left" is a mass of anti-freedom proposed as "enlightenment". If you want me to go into an introduction about the left in my vision of it I can but it will take a bit to type it out. Keep in mind that I won't have the time to name all the leftist groups even though I have most of them nailed because the list is so long that it would take months to go through it all.

But I can give you a general proposal of what I see if you want to read it.

JK

[Smalso]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


No, I do not use the word "leftist" as I would "jerk" or "moron". "Jerk" or "moron" are terms that I use sometimes to define uneducated responses to my posts. "Leftist" is a term I use to respond to folks with 1/2 an education that have a sinister edge.The "left" is a mass of anti-freedom proposed as "enlightenment". If you want me to go into an introduction about the left in my vision of it I can but it will take a bit to type it out. Keep in mind that I won't have the time to name all the leftist groups even though I have most of them nailed because the list is so long that it would take months to go through it all.

But I can give you a general proposal of what I see if you want to read it.

JK

Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable. And extremely dangerous.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Smalso


Unbelievable. Simply unbelievable. And extremely dangerous.

Yes, I am glad you agree leftism is extremely dangerous for the nation-state. For once I agree with you.

JK

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
The "left" is a mass of anti-freedom proposed as "enlightenment".
Could you possibly be more vague? I mean, if you really tried?

[The Fool]

A 4 day break for easter and the leftists have made it rain...:(

I just had to fork out $355 because the leftists cracked my exhaust manifold.....damn them all to hell.

[Smalso]

I'm certain it was the matriarchal totalitarianism controled leftist commie atheists that caused all that green pollen to fall on my brown car. Now I gotta wash it again.

Bastards!

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Smalso
I'm certain it was the matriarchal totalitarianism controled leftist commie atheists that caused all that green pollen to fall on my brown car. Now I gotta wash it again.

Bastards! Bastards! ROTFLMAO :D

[Crossbow]

It must be leftists that keep taking the cat food I leave out for my cats.

I fill their bowl, and by the time I get home from work, the bowl is is almost empty, and the cats are still hungry.

Curses!

[Supercharts]

JK -
Any particular authors and/or books that you recommend reading that formed a basis for your world view?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Supercharts
JK -
Any particular authors and/or books that you recommend reading that formed a basis for your world view?

There are many of them. My library is quite extensive as I have researched the evils of leftism for some time. What component of leftist perversion do you want to cover first? Historical, economic, war-crimes, etc?

Start reading The Black Book of Communism. If you want, I can e-mail you a list of my 100+ most important books exposing leftist evil if you would like.

JK

[Supercharts]

Long ago I read The Great Terror by Robert Conquest. The BPL listed over 20 copies in the index yet there was only one to be found. Looked at other libraries - if they listed it they couldn't find it. Odd, eh?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


There are many of them. My library is quite extensive as I have researched the evils of leftism for some time. What component of leftist perversion do you want to cover first? Historical, economic, war-crimes, etc?

Start reading The Black Book of Communism. If you want, I can e-mail you a list of my 100+ most important books exposing leftist evil if you would like.

JK
JK.
Any advice on how i can get them from under my bed? All the noise thay make all night plotting the downfall of freedom.....It makes it really hard to sleep.:p

[Baker]

I haven’t read many of Tammy Bruce’s work I see I need to start doing so she makes many fine points.
From jk’s quote she made in here book.

[peptoabysmal]

Nice article. It expresses much of how I feel too. I was a "liberal democrat" for ... well a lot of years :D. I was one even before the painful Vietnam days. Some people refer to that time as our second civil war.

Well, I'm not one anymore. This last year I've been embarrassed to say I was even a Democrat, let alone liberal. I have seen nothing from the left, which I was formerly a part of, except for traitorous and reprehensible behavior. Now they are a bunch of, well, “elitists” is really a good term for them, who presume to be so enlightened as to tell the rest of us how we should think, feel, act, eat, drink and talk. It is not free thinking anymore, it is social fascism.

If your first thought is to reply to this with a smug "Who are *they*?", I hate to tell you this, you are one of them.
:eek:

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Nice article. It expresses much of how I feel too. I was a "liberal democrat" for ... well a lot of years :D. I was one even before the painful Vietnam days. Some people refer to that time as our second civil war.

Well, I'm not one anymore. This last year I've been embarrassed to say I was even a Democrat, let alone liberal. I have seen nothing from the left, which I was formerly a part of, except for traitorous and reprehensible behavior. Now they are a bunch of, well, “elitists” is really a good term for them, who presume to be so enlightened as to tell the rest of us how we should think, feel, act, eat, drink and talk. It is not free thinking anymore, it is social fascism.

If your first thought is to reply to this with a smug "Who are *they*?", I hate to tell you this, you are one of them.
:eek:

Social fascism. A very interesting term. Mind if I add that to my genius term arsenal?

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Supercharts
Long ago I read The Great Terror by Robert Conquest. The BPL listed over 20 copies in the index yet there was only one to be found. Looked at other libraries - if they listed it they couldn't find it. Odd, eh?

What happens is that librarians and other leftist henchmen scour bookshelves in libraries to remove "hostile" books. Hostile naturally being those works overtly critical of leftism.

Other methods are taking the book out of the library and not returning it. All across the USA this is a very big problem. The library institution suffers from the nearly the same level of leftist influence that universities do. It is a war to control thought, or as pepto so brilliantly mentioned, social fascism.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by The Fool

JK.
Any advice on how i can get them from under my bed? All the noise thay make all night plotting the downfall of freedom.....It makes it really hard to sleep.:p

6 or 7 starving pit bulls works pretty good, I would imagine.

JK

[The Fool]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


What happens is that librarians and other leftist henchmen scour bookshelves in libraries to remove "hostile" books. Hostile naturally being those works overtly critical of leftism.

Other methods are taking the book out of the library and not returning it. All across the USA this is a very big problem. The library institution suffers from the nearly the same level of leftist influence that universities do. It is a war to control thought, or as pepto so brilliantly mentioned, social fascism.

JK
Is it not possible the people who read this sort of conspiracy theory stuff are just not good at returning library books?.....nope? another conspiracy theory of leftist librarians is probably more likely? sheesh...why not "aliens abduct library books" now thats more like it!:)

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Thanz
Who exactly is this radical Left that is celebrating cop killers, etc? I realize this is just an introduction to her book, but some concrete examples would be nice. I just don't see the death of right and wrong - you have a conservative president who has definite notions of right and wrong.

Really, the "Left" as described here seems just as shadowy as any conspiracy theory about some "military-industrial complex" who really run our lives.

The problem is not the "Left" - it is the death of personal responsibility in general. I don't think that this can all be laid at the feet of the "Left". Turn on the tv any day and on any talk show people are whining about their lives, seeking attention, but not actually doing anything about the situations they create. I don't think it is a right or left issue.

I do it all the time. In fact, we have a club, and we meet everytime a cop is killed or a WTC brought down. It has a huge membership, with an active fund raising committee. Would you like a raffle ticket for a tray of meat?

[The Fool]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


I do it all the time. In fact, we have a club, and we meet everytime a cop is killed or a WTC brought down. It has a huge membership, with an active fund raising committee. Would you like a raffle ticket for a tray of meat?

Shhhhhh comrade they will discover our secrets!!!

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
Nice article. It expresses much of how I feel too. I was a "liberal democrat" for ... well a lot of years :D. I was one even before the painful Vietnam days. Some people refer to that time as our second civil war.

Well, I'm not one anymore. This last year I've been embarrassed to say I was even a Democrat, let alone liberal. I have seen nothing from the left, which I was formerly a part of, except for traitorous and reprehensible behavior. Now they are a bunch of, well, “elitists” is really a good term for them, who presume to be so enlightened as to tell the rest of us how we should think, feel, act, eat, drink and talk. It is not free thinking anymore, it is social fascism.

If your first thought is to reply to this with a smug "Who are *they*?", I hate to tell you this, you are one of them.
:eek:

Yeah, well I was once a part of the conservative, god loving right. I am ashamed to admit it, but I once prayed that god would see a conservative politician elected so we could smash those commies in 'Nam. But now I have seen the light!

[a_unique_person]

What can you say about Tammy Bruce, except she has read all the right wing columnists and listened to the Rush Limburgers, and she seems to have it down pat.

[dmarker]

I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

Who are the Left Elite? And all the other "Elites" that conservatives refer to?

For ten years I've heard references to this Elite or that Elite but I've never seen anyone named as one of the _______ Elite. Who comprises the memberships to these groups? Or is the various Elites actually one group?

I see that Bruce refers to the Elites as people who share the same mindset, not an organized group or a cabal. But if these people are working to destroy US values, aren't they organized?

Who has actually come out and said that a murderer should be excused solely on his/her gender and ethnic group?

Name one defendent or convicted that the Elites (whoever they are) want to free on the basis of their gender or ethnicity. Now there are some anti-death penalty folks who don't want to see anybody killed, however they don't think those guys should be walking the streets either. If a group wants to free someone accused/convicted of a crime they usually cite innocence of that crime as a reason to free the accused/convicted.

I'll have more questions later.


Originally posted by Jedi Knight
This is a chunk of Chapter 1 of Tammy Bruce's new book, "The Death of Right and Wrong: Exposing the Left's Assault on Our Culture and Values"

As quoted by Tammy Bruce: "The Left Elite has worked for years to brainwash us into a sort of values lobotomy. We are not to judge those who kill, if the guilty are people of color or women; we are to excuse those who destroy lives as victims of a racist, sexist, and homophobic world, or now, on the global scale, the unfair and oppressive “multinational corporate” world; we are to blame the innocent and lionize the guilty.

And if you dare to say you don’t believe injustice to be justice, then, as I demonstrated in The New Thought Police, you will be dismissed as sexist, racist, or homophobic. We have been led behind the Looking Glass, where everything is the opposite of what it should be.

How does the Left Elite indoctrinate decent, thoughtful people into accepting, as an example, that some killers are victims and deserve to be set free? Keep in mind, I speak of the Elite not necessarily as a cabal, but as a group of people who share certain basic assumptions, a certain world view. One now-accomplished goal is the brainwashing of society into believing that because of the color of their skin, or their gender, or their sexual preference, some in our “multicultural society” can never be understood by others, making judgment and punishment inappropriate. The corollaries are that traditional concepts of personal responsibility are outdated, and that expecting others to behave with dignity, and expecting society to recognize the concepts of right and wrong, is contrary to the ideal of liberty. Every idea, every act, has the same value--none is more worthy than another. Of course, this effort has to start with convincing you that the standards by which you were raised were wrong. Your ideas about religion, family, and sex are wrong, perhaps even harmful…

How best to change Americans’ fundamental values? How best to indoctrinate you into a culture that grows sicker and more corrupt by the minute? As I will discuss in more detail in the chapters that follow, the Left Elite uses every medium at its disposal--television, film, music, and art; politics and the justice system; higher education and the news media. One of its most important tools is constant special-interest-group rhetoric.

Keep in mind, the leftism I’m describing has nothing to do with the classical liberalism on which our country was founded--the political philosophy based on individual freedom. In fact, it’s quite the opposite. The Left has had to restrict individual freedom of thought and deed in order to destroy the concept of judgment and undermine notions of right and wrong that have been held nearly universally for millennia. This is the result of the wrong people getting control of our culture at a time when we were vulnerable. It’s that simple and that scary. It also can be reversed without having to diminish the benefits of liberty that flow naturally from our system and our hearts.

The Legacy of the Left

I’m an odd bird on today’s Left--I actually believe that we can embrace individual liberty while also applying some standard of dignity to the way we lead our lives. As a gay woman, I live a life made possible by the tolerance of the average American.

The efforts of activists in the 1960s to bring about an environment that would be safer for homosexual adults, and generally freer for all those who are minorities in our society, have been generally recognized as a good thing. Now, on the contrary, I see the Left demonizing the very idea of decency in their determination to lobotomize Americans into a foggy silence about anything cultural. In truth, being gay and living with decency and dignity are not exclusive concepts. But the Left has dirtied those words to such a degree that when I’ve used them in conversation they have elicited the same reaction as if I had suddenly uttered the word ******. Friends have urged me not even to use the word morality because it was too “loaded.” All the more reason to dust it off!

You don’t, after all, need to be steeped in religious fundamentalism to realize things have gone terribly wrong. I personally refuse to be silent when a movement I’ve worked for, believing it was meant to expand tolerance and increase liberty, devolves into an effort to eliminate all value-based concepts.

For example, as a gay woman, I expect tolerance. But I understand that tolerance is not “acceptance” or “buy-in.” I don’t expect other women to run out and become lesbians just because they tolerate me, or even if they like me or admire the stands I have taken. A fundamentalist Christian may think my lifestyle is wrong, but it’s not by fundamentalist Christians that I have been attacked and demonized over the last seven years.

A good example of the difference between today’s Right and today’s Left can be seen in their reaction to murder. People on the Right, no matter how strongly opposed to abortion they are, nearly all recognize that anti-abortion activists who kill doctors are wrong. Contrast that with the Left’s lionization of black men who kill whites, and especially white police officers.

The noble effort in the 1960s to encourage individuality apparently had no braking mechanism. It continued to a point where self-gratification became the goal, at the expense of values that could co-exist with and even enhance our new-found sense of our individuality and sexual self-awareness. Faith, family, fidelity, truth, and honor all became casualties of America’s Cultural Elite. Tolerance, once a genuine American ideal, has become a code word for moral relativism and all its side-effects. Once it was realized that the American people were willing to accept diversity and even some challenge to the status quo, the Left’s goal changed from extending the boundaries of what was considered right, to having no boundaries at all. Moral relativism became the order of the day--a view that moral standards are entirely grounded in social custom, varying from culture to culture, moment to moment, circumstance to circumstance...

The death of right and wrong …may be more easily seen by taking a look at the core of our culture--the art world. The disintegration of our culture, and the conditioning of people into accepting it in silence, begins with legitimizing the depraved. This requires a trip to San Francisco…."--endquote.

Wow, that is powerful stuff, and almost sounds like the observations that I make about the radical left. I am pleased that I am not the only one who sees what is going wrong inside our country and beyond.

Jedi Knight

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

Who are the Left Elite? And all the other "Elites" that conservatives refer to?


I was going to respond with: "just open your eyes", but here are a few of the leftist elite:

1) The National Education Association (NEA) -- Sole purpose to remove conservative thought (democratic thought) from the public school system, to put all communities in the US in a leftist stranglehold over education processes, and provide US students with overt brainwashing that they should have "lower expectations" from the leftist-defined "America", unless the students are part of some leftist-defined "victim class" (women, minorities, commies, ect). Students are also taught the primary goal of not achieving in public school in order to dumb them down.

2) ACLU -- Promoted as the "watchdog of freedom", the ACLU is a leftist Marxist organization bent on purging all religious thought and idolatry from the United States, protect radical leftist ideology in an air of self-defined "vicitimization" using US courts to bully Americans into submission and the dismantling of the US Constitution by changing the meaning of the sovereign document. One classic example is when the ACLU sued the US government to release the names of terrorists that were held by the US Justice Department, and yet at the same time sued the government to keep the names of sexual predators of children a "secret" from the communities they preyed in.

3) PETA -- Animals have more rights than humans. Human life is secondary and "humanity" antiquated.

4) Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and all other "greens" groups -- Ecoterrorists of the radical left that use "environmental" issues as the modus operandi of their leftist agenda. Corporations and capitalism in general can be attacked if there is an "environmental" connection made to them, no matter how marginal the enviro impact.

5) Radical homosexual groups -- There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, unless it calls for terrorizing heterosexuals and the indoctrination of children.

6) NOW -- The premiere radical leftist matriarchal feminazi organization operating under the guise of "propelling women" in the nation-state.

7) A.N.S.W.E.R. -- Communist organization that seeks to dismantle the United States in the same method that Yugoslavia was dismantled--leftist, anti-capitalist marches to crush the economy. The group uses useful idiots in leftist cities like San Francisco and college students to achieve these ends. Their recent exploits were propelled by the war in Iraq since it gave them an excuse to become "anti-war" and thus self-legitimize their communist gatherings on US streets in mass, while their true intentions were to destroy the country by any means necessary. This group also includes the WWP (World Worker's Party--another commie group).

8) The NAACP -- Leftist organization that perpetuates racial Marxism where non-blacks have become the "everlasting" and "infinite" foe that must be "crushed". At the same time, the black victimization is pushed onto blacks in America by the NAACP so blacks forever think of themselves as victims and in need of protection from "benevolent government" forever. Naturally this "protection" comes from a handful of other self-appointed, non-governmental "black leaders".

9) All major US and global media.

These are just some of the many, many leftist groups operating in the United States today. Clearer now?

JK

[Smalso]

Jedi, you left one out:

10) Any person or organization whose political, social or religious ideology is not in total agreement with those of Jedi Knight.

[Baker]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
What can you say about Tammy Bruce, except she has read all the right wing columnists and listened to the Rush Limburgers, and she seems to have it down pat.

You seem to think that you have it down pat despite the fact that you have never read the book!

[Baker]

Originally posted by Smalso
Jedi, you left one out:

10) Any person or organization whose political, social or religious ideology is not in total agreement with those of Jedi Knight.

In all fairness that could fit the description of at least 50% of the poster here.

[Smalso]

Originally posted by Baker


In all fairness that could fit the description of at least 50% of the poster here.

Yup. In all fairness.

edit: But Jedi is special.

Originally posted by a_unique_person


I do it all the time. In fact, we have a club, and we meet everytime a cop is killed or a WTC brought down. It has a huge membership, with an active fund raising committee. Would you like a raffle ticket for a tray of meat? http://www.mumia2000.org/banne.gif

[RandFan]

Originally posted by dmarker
I have a few questions I'd like to ask.

Who are the Left Elite? And all the other "Elites" that conservatives refer to? Barbra Striesand. She urged people to use less energy. She lives in a very large house and her guest house is larger than the average home and she uses far more energy than the average American but she does not see herself as an "average" American so why should she conserve energy?

Her website has a list of tips that tell you how to live an "environmentally clean" life (like air dry your clothes), but she refuses to do that herself. Her publicist says that "her lifestyle won't accommodate such things.

Ted Danson was one of these "elites". He soberly predicted in 1990 that the world only had ten years left because our oceans were on the verge of dying. My math isn't too good lately but it is a bit better than his.

FWIW, a little poison for the well.
Ted Danson, the former star of the Cheers television show, was once a skeptic. Now Danson says that he is convinced that everyone will someday have a hotline to dead loved ones in his or her lifetime. Danson urges cynics not to be afraid of crossing over.

Ed Asner and Mike Farrel regardless of all of the evidence of his guilt (http://www.danielfaulkner.com/) they have aggressively tried to get a new trial Mumia Abu Jamal.

Bill O'Reilly tried to get Sean Penn to appear on his show to back up his views. Penn said he would only agree to do it for money.

Woody Harrelson claims that our War on Terror is a racist war.

So, let me see if I understand, since the people that attacked us were mid-Eastern we shouldn't do anything to people from the mid-East for fear of having racist motivations????

Who has actually come out and said that a murderer should be excused solely on his/her gender and ethnic group?

Name one defendant or convicted that the Elites (whoever they are) want to free on the basis of their gender or ethnicity. Now there are some anti-death penalty folks who don't want to see anybody killed, however they don't think those guys should be walking the streets either. If a group wants to free someone accused/convicted of a crime they usually cite innocence of that crime as a reason to free the accused/convicted. Not in the case of Mumia.

Convicted: Mumia Abu Jamal

Elites in support: Ed Asner, Will Farell, etc.

This case has drawn national and international attention and the support of well known celebrities who work to "Free Mumia." Supporters claim he is a black revolutionary held as a political prisoner.


Each myth created by Jamal's supporters is intended to appeal to an unknowing listener's sense of fair play and justice, while at the same time evoking a response of outrage and hatred against the allegedly racist, corrupt and unjust legal system. And yes, of course their are lots of loonies on the right including right wing "elites".

[Smalso]

RandFan: And yes, of course their are lots of loonies on the right including right wing "elites".

Care to name a few?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Smalso
RandFan:

Care to name a few? Good question, I can't think of any right now. I'm too busy keeping track of the left wing nuts.

I'm going to have to defer to someone else.

FWIW, we do have Dan Quale, he is not an "elite" but he has a colorful way of spelling potato.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I was going to respond with: "just open your eyes", but here are a few of the leftist elite:

1) The National Education Association (NEA) -- Sole purpose to remove conservative thought (democratic thought) from the public school system, to put all communities in the US in a leftist stranglehold over education processes, and provide US students with overt brainwashing that they should have "lower expectations" from the leftist-defined "America", unless the students are part of some leftist-defined "victim class" (women, minorities, commies, ect). Students are also taught the primary goal of not achieving in public school in order to dumb them down.

2) ACLU -- Promoted as the "watchdog of freedom", the ACLU is a leftist Marxist organization bent on purging all religious thought and idolatry from the United States, protect radical leftist ideology in an air of self-defined "vicitimization" using US courts to bully Americans into submission and the dismantling of the US Constitution by changing the meaning of the sovereign document. One classic example is when the ACLU sued the US government to release the names of terrorists that were held by the US Justice Department, and yet at the same time sued the government to keep the names of sexual predators of children a "secret" from the communities they preyed in.

3) PETA -- Animals have more rights than humans. Human life is secondary and "humanity" antiquated.

4) Earth Liberation Front (ELF) and all other "greens" groups -- Ecoterrorists of the radical left that use "environmental" issues as the modus operandi of their leftist agenda. Corporations and capitalism in general can be attacked if there is an "environmental" connection made to them, no matter how marginal the enviro impact.

5) Radical homosexual groups -- There is nothing wrong with homosexuality, unless it calls for terrorizing heterosexuals and the indoctrination of children.

6) NOW -- The premiere radical leftist matriarchal feminazi organization operating under the guise of "propelling women" in the nation-state.

7) A.N.S.W.E.R. -- Communist organization that seeks to dismantle the United States in the same method that Yugoslavia was dismantled--leftist, anti-capitalist marches to crush the economy. The group uses useful idiots in leftist cities like San Francisco and college students to achieve these ends. Their recent exploits were propelled by the war in Iraq since it gave them an excuse to become "anti-war" and thus self-legitimize their communist gatherings on US streets in mass, while their true intentions were to destroy the country by any means necessary. This group also includes the WWP (World Worker's Party--another commie group).

8) The NAACP -- Leftist organization that perpetuates racial Marxism where non-blacks have become the "everlasting" and "infinite" foe that must be "crushed". At the same time, the black victimization is pushed onto blacks in America by the NAACP so blacks forever think of themselves as victims and in need of protection from "benevolent government" forever. Naturally this "protection" comes from a handful of other self-appointed, non-governmental "black leaders".

9) All major US and global media.

These are just some of the many, many leftist groups operating in the United States today. Clearer now?

JK

No, this just begs more questions.

How is the NEA removing conservative thought from schools? Are you saying that the teachers expect more from female and minority students than white male students? The ultimate decisions on textbooks and course content reside with local school boards, as demonstrated by the Xtian right, how does the NEA get around this?

The ACLU also sued to allow Neo-Nazis to march in a mainly Jewish neighborhood, Skokie, Illinois. They've also sued so that the Ku Klux Klan could march in various cities. Why shouldn't the American people know who is being held for terrorism? As for sex offenders, these names are not secret from the police and never have been, the problem of releasing names to the public is vigilante action against people who have already been punished for the crime as much as the law allows. What about longer sentences for sex offenders instead?

Do you have evidence that PETA claims that animals have more rights than humans?

How are the Earth Liberation Front and other green organizations ecoterrorists? Do they bomb buildings? Shoot executives like snipers? Can't they present their evidence like any other citizen?

How do homosexuals indoctrinate children? How do homosexuals terrorize hetrosexuals? Do they use bombings, shooting et?

I'm not surprised that you use "feminazi", even though the Nazis themselves weren't feminist. How is "equal pay for equal work" undermining our country?

How do protest marches crush the economy? Isn't Freedom of Assembly guaranteed in our Constitution? Didn't the former Soviet Union and present China suppress this freedom violently? Shouldn't we be better than those countries and allow people to express opinions no matter how midguided and silly?

Who are the leaders of the NAACP? Sorry, I'm not up on this.

Even Fox network, Bush's cheerleaders in this war? Is Rush Limbaugh part of the Leftist elite because he is part of the major media?

From your list it sounds like the Leftist are a pretty big chunk of the country. Are you saying that our country should suppress all these people?

[Smalso]

FWIW, we do have Dan Quale, he is not an "elite" but he has a colorful way of spelling potato.

Indeed a barren resource.

[DavidJames]

"From your list it sounds like the Leftist are a pretty big chunk of the country"

Does anyone remember the Mad Magazine parody (from a long time ago) of the of the "Super Patriot". I believe the main quote was something like "Loves America will hating 99% of the people in it"

[Shane Costello]

originally posted by dmarker:
How are the Earth Liberation Front and other green organizations ecoterrorists? Do they bomb buildings? Shoot executives like snipers? Can't they present their evidence like any other citizen?

Whatever about presenting their own evidence, green fascists do their utmost to prevent theopposing side of the argument present theirs (www.economist.com/World/europe/displayStory.cfm?Story_id=1291180)

"That is hardly surprising, given the climate. “Fieldwork in the UK is difficult now,” says David Evans, head of research and technology at Syngenta. “Our trials are largely conducted outside the UK. We have had damage on our UK site. We had a stand of transgenic trees, which we were engineering to make them easier to pulp, so you could use fewer chemicals in the process. It was a four-year project. They were debarked. It had a disastrous effect on morale. There were tears.”

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.

How is the NEA removing conservative thought from schools? Are you saying that the teachers expect more from female and minority students than white male students? The ultimate decisions on textbooks and course content reside with local school boards, as demonstrated by the Xtian right, how does the NEA get around this?

I am pleased you asked this question. Local school boards are laughably impotent and the only "hiring" done by the local school board to appease the "town" constituency is that of superintendent. Once the superintendant is hired (usually always a leftist in every community), that superintendent then begins to force out all conservatives from teaching positions. It is a mirror image of what is going on in American universities, the last bastion of the perversionist left. Check out Horowitz's facts about the conservative plight on American Universities. I can link it if you want to, but for now I want to focus on how the NEA works in unison with their CEO's (school superintendants) to bring left-wing solidarity to public schools across the country. They have it down to a science.

Here is how the game works. School Superintendants are usually always Ph.D's unless there is a personnel shortage in a particular geographical region, where the Ph.D candidate usually has a Ph.D in "education" or a discipline where the Ph.D candidate is effectively screened at the university administering the indoctrination program for the candidiate. It all begins at the university level. The candidate in the Ph.D program is checked for leftist allegiance long before they are given the nod for their doctorate. I have studied this extensively and am tempted to write a book on it. It is sort of a parallel to how the military does it. Out of all the commissioned officers that ever serve in the military, less than one percent will ever make the rank of general. The one percent that does is solidly aligned with the agenda of the military institution and works as a CEO of the military.

That is how Ph.D's in the American school systems work. What the NEA does is plant these folks at the community level and then uses them as institutional tools to advance leftist culture nationally. You mentioned that the school board does "all the hiring". That is not untrue per se, but is a half-truth. The school board is generally filled with folks that have no education or no knowledge of the process, so a slick superintendant can have their way with them easily. In my community this was hilariously the case for as long as I can remember.

What the school board does in all communities is loudly advocate for the school superintendent when the hiring is needed. It generally appears in the newspapers, the salary is debated so that the community actually is led to believe they have a say in the matter, and then when the hiring is done the school board tells "the people" that they are part of the "process", when in actuality they are not, because regardless of the indoctrinated school superintendant, the outcome will always be the same under the direction of the leftist-nationalist NEA agenda.

You see, the greatest deception put forth on Americans is that very fact. You always hear the ultimate half-truth that Americans and their public education systems are "local" systems guided by the "states", but that is a complete falsehood. The NEA is a national organization with uniform national policy objectives in indoctrinating children. They are a very powerful leftist political lobby.

So the "hiring" thing can be played off as a "local" activity, but if you send a communist in to do the hiring in every community, do non-communists get hired? The "school board" will mandate the superintendent a budget for positions to be filled, but the school board does not hire/fire unless it becomes a situation whereby the community can be publicly "embarassed" by a hiring and the school board is thrust into a situation where they have to publicly assert "leadership" (which is always a lack thereof). Any "firing" that is done in public schools is done by the superintendent and the NEA (the union), not the school board.

If you walked into a US corporation and saw all whites in there working and no one else, that would raise some eyebrows, right? Sure it would. There would be no "diversity" and "multiculturalism", right? That is where the deception comes in. Americans are trained by the public school system to hyperactively be aware of diversity only if it is related to skin color.

Real diversity (the diversity of thought and ideas) is lost to Americans. That is why conservatives are being purged not only from the American university system, but the public school system, and no one is held accountable for it. The reasons are simple, as I explained above, but a conservative is not "welcome" teaching at the university and the public school. You may find a handful that have slipped through due to their own cleverness, but the ratio of conservatives to leftists in the public school system and the university will always be at least 9:1.

Not to stray off-topic, but let me give you an example of how powerful the NEA is and why the myth of local control over the public school system is just that--a myth. When the NEA wants a new school in a certain community, the "idea" is thrown out there to the local tax-payers. Now the idea may be something as insignificant as "we need more classrooms for smaller class-size", or it may be something as major as "we need a swimming pool like the community that is our neighbor to the north has for their children". Whatever the reason it all means the same thing in the end. When the NEA says a new school needs to go in some place, the community either "gets it" (the "people" agree completely), or other actions are taken. One of the most effective methods is getting the old school to lose its accreditation. Nothing lights the fire under the asses of local community tax-payers faster or builds momentum for a new school than one that is threatened to lose accreditation. Sally Soccer Mom wants her high-school kids to go to college, and Sally knows if her high school loses its accreditation that Sally's kid won't do as well as the kid whose school was accredited.

So the local community is then coerced to pay for a new school costing $50 - 100 million. Is that "local" control? No way. Like the hiring of non-conservatives in all facets of education, when the NEA waves its stick around, "the people" jump.

This particular debate has extensive depth to it so if you would like to discuss it in further detail or other topics, feel free to start them. But that is a sample of how the education game is played and how "local" is "never local".

The ACLU also sued to allow Neo-Nazis to march in a mainly Jewish neighborhood, Skokie, Illinois. They've also sued so that the Ku Klux Klan could march in various cities. Why shouldn't the American people know who is being held for terrorism? As for sex offenders, these names are not secret from the police and never have been, the problem of releasing names to the public is vigilante action against people who have already been punished for the crime as much as the law allows. What about longer sentences for sex offenders instead?

The ACLU will throw a lawyer at a some Nazi group to help them just to give the the ACLU an air of legitimacy. Anyone can "march" in this country for a "cause". The ACLU can do cases like that all day and not get hurt by them because those cases are no-brainers. Any idiot lawyer can walk into a court and prove a group has a right to march--the US Constitution already spells it out. What you are basically saying, which is pretty laughable, is that the ACLU is "centered" ideologically because they went to court to help some marginal Nazi group get rights they already had under the constitution. Pretty funny spin.

The terrorists that the ACLU sued to get the names of didn't want to be found out, as the criminal child-sex predators don't want to be found out. The US Justice Department gave all those terrorists that were held in confinement free access to telephones with numbers to call newspapers, etc. None of them wanted that. None of them made the "call", yet the ACLU by suing the government tried to make everyone think that these people were held "against their will" in total isolation and against the norms of due process. All those terrorists had telephones and open communications access.

At the same time, the ACLU sued to keep the names of criminal predators of children a "secret", the opposite to what they wanted with the terrorists. The family living next to a sexual predator doesn't willingly want to. It is hard for familes to "leave town" when they own a home in a community. It is also not the family's fault for the criminal child-predator to be out of prison anyway. That is the fault of apologist leftism and special interest groups who don't see criminal predators of children as that much of a threat in the community. The law-abiding do not have a say in how long a criminal sex predator of children has in jail and they never will. What they can do is find out where these predators live so they can keep their kids 1,000,000,000 miles away from them. They have that right. If leftists aren't willing to incarcerate these people, that isn't the law-abiding citizen's fault. Also, knowing where in the community these people live isn't "lynching" them or being a "vigilante". If vigilantism was a problem, there would not be any sex-predators of children alive, would there?

Do you have evidence that PETA claims that animals have more rights than humans?

There are too many to list but the most recent is PETA's laughable use of propaganda comparing the processing of animals into food a "holocaust". PETA was comparing the natural processing of animals to food with the Jewish Holocaust. That is unbelievably outrageous and openly shows that PETA believes that animals are of the same level if not superior to humans, a very dangerous mindset in reality, and of course, leftist.

How are the Earth Liberation Front and other green organizations ecoterrorists? Do they bomb buildings? Shoot executives like snipers? Can't they present their evidence like any other citizen?

But they burn buildings down and destroy property so much that the FBI has listed ELF as the top domestic terrorist threat in the United States. Do I need to link it?

How do homosexuals indoctrinate children? How do homosexuals terrorize hetrosexuals? Do they use bombings, shooting et?

Homosexual groups indoctrinate children so that children can be candidates for homosexual recruitment. For example, in a textbook that I acquired of a 3rd grade music class, the textbook instructs the teacher to allow and encourage male children to dance together so that they will be less hostile to such circumstances they may encounter in society. That is pretty laughable. Plus, pro-homosexual groups are prevelant at public schools giving "sex-ed" classes of all types to children. There are countless news articles on this as well. Since homosexuality is only an issue with less than 4% of the national population, why are 100% of the children in the public school system being indoctrinated into its training?

I'm not surprised that you use "feminazi", even though the Nazis themselves weren't feminist. How is "equal pay for equal work" undermining our country?

Women are paid equally. You are quoting a feminist myth. The term "feminazi" illustrates matriarchal totalitarianism, where the totalitarianism is fascist like the Nazis. It fits really well.

How do protest marches crush the economy? Isn't Freedom of Assembly guaranteed in our Constitution? Didn't the former Soviet Union and present China suppress this freedom violently? Shouldn't we be better than those countries and allow people to express opinions no matter how midguided and silly?

Duh, by stopping commerce.

Who are the leaders of the NAACP? Sorry, I'm not up on this.

Use a search engine and look it up. I am not going to do the easy things for you. Don't be lazy.

Even Fox network, Bush's cheerleaders in this war? Is Rush Limbaugh part of the Leftist elite because he is part of the major media?

Oh, so conservatives have two of ten thousand media outlets going and that is balance? Not.

From your list it sounds like the Leftist are a pretty big chunk of the country. Are you saying that our country should suppress all these people?

No, leftism always seeks to empower the few while terrorizing the many. Only a small group of folks in comparison to the populations they represent have true power in leftism. Read "The Black Book of Communism" for further details.

JK

[davefoc]

With all due respect to JK, from my perspective the Tammy Bruce (whom I like) article paints with too broad a brush and covers too many non-specific issues to be the topic of a thread.

None the less, some of it resonated with me as it apparently did LukeT who brought up Mumia, a stone cold killer that for some on the left have decided is unjustly in prison. While terms like left and right are ambiguous and I always hesitate to use them, it does seem that for whatever reason it is left leaning folks that end up taking up the cause of some of the most heinous criminals. I guess because their logic goes something like, he's anti-establishment, I'm anti-establishment, we must be on the same side.

Mumia, is a perfect example of this. The evidence against him is very strong as put forth in the following web site:
http://www.danielfaulkner.com/
and discussed in this editorial:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment050900b.html

And yet some on the left have decided to fight for this guy with a strategy based on a concious misrepresentation of facts.

Of course the unfairness of all of this is that a lot of people that consider themselves leftwing are embarrassed by Mumia's defenders and don't like the fact the political philosophy that they subscribe to has some leadership that engages in this sort of thing.

The same goes for the right though. I consider myself to be on the right but I don't agree with a lot of what is done and advocated by rightwing leadership. So maybe broad brush attacks against the left or the right like the one that started this thread are inherently unfair and serve better to rally the faithful than as a basis for discussion.

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by davefoc
Of course the unfairness of all of this is that a lot of people that consider themselves leftwing are embarrassed by Mumia's defenders and don't like the fact the political philosophy that they subscribe to has some leadership that engages in this sort of thing.

The same goes for the right though. I consider myself to be on the right but I don't agree with a lot of what is done and advocated by rightwing leadership. So maybe broad brush attacks against the left or the right like the one that started this thread are inherently unfair and serve better to rally the faithful than as a basis for discussion.
Thank you. Well said.

[Theodore Kurita]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


There are many of them. My library is quite extensive as I have researched the evils of leftism for some time. What component of leftist perversion do you want to cover first? Historical, economic, war-crimes, etc?

Start reading The Black Book of Communism. If you want, I can e-mail you a list of my 100+ most important books exposing leftist evil if you would like.

JK

I see you have been smoking crack again JK.


Anyways...


Fact: Communism does not work very well.

Fiction: True Communism was established in Russia.

Fact: True Communism has never existed, because, the elitists *cough* Stalin *cough* refused to give up their power and hand it to the people.



So what if I am a liberal person. The translation is f**k off until you give any form of concrete evidence that socialism can not work.


Socialism is a liberal form of Government.


All basic human needs are covered by it.

Countries that are good examples of this:

Finland
Sweden
Labour Party in Britain (Tony Blair)

If you really want to know what a socialist (like me) belives, check the website out:

http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/socialism21/



Now, who said we were racist biggots again.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by davefoc
With all due respect to JK, from my perspective the Tammy Bruce (whom I like) article paints with too broad a brush and covers too many non-specific issues to be the topic of a thread.

None the less, some of it resonated with me as it apparently did LukeT who brought up Mumia, a stone cold killer that for some on the left have decided is unjustly in prison. While terms like left and right are ambiguous and I always hesitate to use them, it does seem that for whatever reason it is left leaning folks that end up taking up the cause of some of the most heinous criminals. I guess because their logic goes something like, he's anti-establishment, I'm anti-establishment, we must be on the same side.

Mumia, is a perfect example of this. The evidence against him is very strong as put forth in the following web site:
http://www.danielfaulkner.com/
and discussed in this editorial:
http://www.nationalreview.com/comment/comment050900b.html

And yet some on the left have decided to fight for this guy with a strategy based on a concious misrepresentation of facts.

Of course the unfairness of all of this is that a lot of people that consider themselves leftwing are embarrassed by Mumia's defenders and don't like the fact the political philosophy that they subscribe to has some leadership that engages in this sort of thing.

The same goes for the right though. I consider myself to be on the right but I don't agree with a lot of what is done and advocated by rightwing leadership. So maybe broad brush attacks against the left or the right like the one that started this thread are inherently unfair and serve better to rally the faithful than as a basis for discussion.

You are just trying to confuse the topic for those that are not versed in its importance. Tammy Bruce was a member of the leftist elite for decades. She is merely talking about the very institution that she worked hard inside of. But then Tammy had an "awakening" of sorts and saw the despotism in the left and she walked away from it. You have to give her credit.

Also, the quote I used from her book is just the beginning. Read the book. There is no broad brush in her writing--it is very specific.

JK

[clk]

Originally posted by ((^-_-^))


So what if I am a liberal person.

Trying to pass yourself off as a liberal now, huh? Just as you tried to make everyone believe you were a medical student, or a hacker, or had a Masters in astronomy, or.....

[Supercharts]

Originally posted by clk


Trying to pass yourself off as a liberal now, huh? Just as you tried to make everyone believe you were a medical student, or a hacker, or had a Masters in astronomy, or.....
He's a child. Have pity.
:D

[dmarker]

This is getting too long so I'm going to split things up.


Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.

How is the NEA removing conservative thought from schools? Are you saying that the teachers expect more from female and minority students than white male students? The ultimate decisions on textbooks and course content reside with local school boards, as demonstrated by the Xtian right, how does the NEA get around this?

I am pleased you asked this question. Local school boards are laughably impotent and the only "hiring" done by the local school board to appease the "town" constituency is that of superintendent. Once the superintendant is hired (usually always a leftist in every community), that superintendent then begins to force out all conservatives from teaching positions. It is a mirror image of what is going on in American universities, the last bastion of the perversionist left. Check out Horowitz's facts about the conservative plight on American Universities. I can link it if you want to, but for now I want to focus on how the NEA works in unison with their CEO's (school superintendants) to bring left-wing solidarity to public schools across the country. They have it down to a science.

Here is how the game works. School Superintendants are usually always Ph.D's unless there is a personnel shortage in a particular geographical region, where the Ph.D candidate usually has a Ph.D in "education" or a discipline where the Ph.D candidate is effectively screened at the university administering the indoctrination program for the candidiate. It all begins at the university level. The candidate in the Ph.D program is checked for leftist allegiance long before they are given the nod for their doctorate. I have studied this extensively and am tempted to write a book on it. It is sort of a parallel to how the military does it. Out of all the commissioned officers that ever serve in the military, less than one percent will ever make the rank of general. The one percent that does is solidly aligned with the agenda of the military institution and works as a CEO of the military.

That is how Ph.D's in the American school systems work. What the NEA does is plant these folks at the community level and then uses them as institutional tools to advance leftist culture nationally. You mentioned that the school board does "all the hiring". That is not untrue per se, but is a half-truth. The school board is generally filled with folks that have no education or no knowledge of the process, so a slick superintendant can have their way with them easily. In my community this was hilariously the case for as long as I can remember.

What the school board does in all communities is loudly advocate for the school superintendent when the hiring is needed. It generally appears in the newspapers, the salary is debated so that the community actually is led to believe they have a say in the matter, and then when the hiring is done the school board tells "the people" that they are part of the "process", when in actuality they are not, because regardless of the indoctrinated school superintendant, the outcome will always be the same under the direction of the leftist-nationalist NEA agenda.

You see, the greatest deception put forth on Americans is that very fact. You always hear the ultimate half-truth that Americans and their public education systems are "local" systems guided by the "states", but that is a complete falsehood. The NEA is a national organization with uniform national policy objectives in indoctrinating children. They are a very powerful leftist political lobby.

So the "hiring" thing can be played off as a "local" activity, but if you send a communist in to do the hiring in every community, do non-communists get hired? The "school board" will mandate the superintendent a budget for positions to be filled, but the school board does not hire/fire unless it becomes a situation whereby the community can be publicly "embarassed" by a hiring and the school board is thrust into a situation where they have to publicly assert "leadership" (which is always a lack thereof). Any "firing" that is done in public schools is done by the superintendent and the NEA (the union), not the school board.

If you walked into a US corporation and saw all whites in there working and no one else, that would raise some eyebrows, right? Sure it would. There would be no "diversity" and "multiculturalism", right? That is where the deception comes in. Americans are trained by the public school system to hyperactively be aware of diversity only if it is related to skin color.

Real diversity (the diversity of thought and ideas) is lost to Americans. That is why conservatives are being purged not only from the American university system, but the public school system, and no one is held accountable for it. The reasons are simple, as I explained above, but a conservative is not "welcome" teaching at the university and the public school. You may find a handful that have slipped through due to their own cleverness, but the ratio of conservatives to leftists in the public school system and the university will always be at least 9:1.

Not to stray off-topic, but let me give you an example of how powerful the NEA is and why the myth of local control over the public school system is just that--a myth. When the NEA wants a new school in a certain community, the "idea" is thrown out there to the local tax-payers. Now the idea may be something as insignificant as "we need more classrooms for smaller class-size", or it may be something as major as "we need a swimming pool like the community that is our neighbor to the north has for their children". Whatever the reason it all means the same thing in the end. When the NEA says a new school needs to go in some place, the community either "gets it" (the "people" agree completely), or other actions are taken. One of the most effective methods is getting the old school to lose its accreditation. Nothing lights the fire under the asses of local community tax-payers faster or builds momentum for a new school than one that is threatened to lose accreditation. Sally Soccer Mom wants her high-school kids to go to college, and Sally knows if her high school loses its accreditation that Sally's kid won't do as well as the kid whose school was accredited.

So the local community is then coerced to pay for a new school costing $50 - 100 million. Is that "local" control? No way. Like the hiring of non-conservatives in all facets of education, when the NEA waves its stick around, "the people" jump.

This particular debate has extensive depth to it so if you would like to discuss it in further detail or other topics, feel free to start them. But that is a sample of how the education game is played and how "local" is "never local".


JK

I never mentioned hiring. I just pointed out that text books and course content is controlled on the local level. If this is not so then why have members of the Religious Right taken over school boards after they lost the evolution battle in appelate courts? Why do they want to join such impotent groups unless school boards are not so impotent after all?

How does the NEA get the accreditation board to pull the accreditation? Name a few schools that have had this done and back it up with a few newspaper articles.

How do you define a conservative teacher? A leftist teacher?

[dmarker]

Part Two


Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.


The ACLU also sued to allow Neo-Nazis to march in a mainly Jewish neighborhood, Skokie, Illinois. They've also sued so that the Ku Klux Klan could march in various cities. Why shouldn't the American people know who is being held for terrorism? As for sex offenders, these names are not secret from the police and never have been, the problem of releasing names to the public is vigilante action against people who have already been punished for the crime as much as the law allows. What about longer sentences for sex offenders instead?

The ACLU will throw a lawyer at a some Nazi group to help them just to give the the ACLU an air of legitimacy. Anyone can "march" in this country for a "cause". The ACLU can do cases like that all day and not get hurt by them because those cases are no-brainers. Any idiot lawyer can walk into a court and prove a group has a right to march--the US Constitution already spells it out. What you are basically saying, which is pretty laughable, is that the ACLU is "centered" ideologically because they went to court to help some marginal Nazi group get rights they already had under the constitution. Pretty funny spin.

The terrorists that the ACLU sued to get the names of didn't want to be found out, as the criminal child-sex predators don't want to be found out. The US Justice Department gave all those terrorists that were held in confinement free access to telephones with numbers to call newspapers, etc. None of them wanted that. None of them made the "call", yet the ACLU by suing the government tried to make everyone think that these people were held "against their will" in total isolation and against the norms of due process. All those terrorists had telephones and open communications access.

At the same time, the ACLU sued to keep the names of criminal predators of children a "secret", the opposite to what they wanted with the terrorists. The family living next to a sexual predator doesn't willingly want to. It is hard for familes to "leave town" when they own a home in a community. It is also not the family's fault for the criminal child-predator to be out of prison anyway. That is the fault of apologist leftism and special interest groups who don't see criminal predators of children as that much of a threat in the community. The law-abiding do not have a say in how long a criminal sex predator of children has in jail and they never will. What they can do is find out where these predators live so they can keep their kids 1,000,000,000 miles away from them. They have that right. If leftists aren't willing to incarcerate these people, that isn't the law-abiding citizen's fault. Also, knowing where in the community these people live isn't "lynching" them or being a "vigilante". If vigilantism was a problem, there would not be any sex-predators of children alive, would there?


JK

But aren't those marches crushing the economy of those neighborhoods?

And the ACLU stepped in to ensure that the local governments obeyed the Constitution. They fought several legal battles and now the Neo-Nazis and Klan can march freely wherever they wish. Isn't this the opposite of promoting a leftist agenda?

As for the terrorist suspects, how do you know that our government actually gave them the right to call out? Because they said so? Even the framers of the Constitution didn't trust the Government, and you expect everyone else to?

And here we come to child molesters. Frankly, I'm all for much longer sentences for child molesting. Plus, I'm for chemical castration or even surgical castration for those who are repeat offenders with plenty of evidence against them. Maybe even the death penalty for those who are incorrigible after these steps are taken. However the law of the land sets up certain punishments and notifying local police of their whereabouts will have to do until we can toughen up those sentences.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.

Do you have evidence that PETA claims that animals have more rights than humans?

There are too many to list but the most recent is PETA's laughable use of propaganda comparing the processing of animals into food a "holocaust". PETA was comparing the natural processing of animals to food with the Jewish Holocaust. That is unbelievably outrageous and openly shows that PETA believes that animals are of the same level if not superior to humans, a very dangerous mindset in reality, and of course, leftist.

How are the Earth Liberation Front and other green organizations ecoterrorists? Do they bomb buildings? Shoot executives like snipers? Can't they present their evidence like any other citizen?

But they burn buildings down and destroy property so much that the FBI has listed ELF as the top domestic terrorist threat in the United States. Do I need to link it?


JK

Shock tactics by a fringe group. And there's no way to call factory farming natural. The natural way is to hunt your food down and kill it or to bait a hook and pull it out of the water with a net.

I can kind of see PETA's point in which we should really think about where are food comes from. And PETA probably will be paying for that little shocker for a while yet. I don't think PETA really makes an impact, if they really do then how?

Yes, you do need to link it because the official FBI site doesn't list ELF as a threat. Unless they are also members of the Freeman and other militia groups. Or maybe they are also bombing abortion clinics. That's all I see about domestic terrorists.

Please only link to official government sites.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
This is getting too long so I'm going to split things up.




I never mentioned hiring. I just pointed out that text books and course content is controlled on the local level. If this is not so then why have members of the Religious Right taken over school boards after they lost the evolution battle in appelate courts? Why do they want to join such impotent groups unless school boards are not so impotent after all?

How does the NEA get the accreditation board to pull the accreditation? Name a few schools that have had this done and back it up with a few newspaper articles.

How do you define a conservative teacher? A leftist teacher?

Of course you didn't mention hiring. Hiring is the key to leftist control--to making the public schools "leftist". They couldn't make them leftist unless they hire leftist minions to run them, right?

The school boards don't matter. School boards allocate slots to hire new teachers, but have nothing to do with the leftist system that absorbs them into the public schools system. Tell you what you need to do--start attending your local school board meetings and take a close look at that and then find a conservative teacher somewhere (good luck trying to find one) who can explain it to you in more detail. My discussion was for someone with slightly more experience than you are demonstrating.

JK

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by a_unique_person


Yeah, well I was once a part of the conservative, god loving right. I am ashamed to admit it, but I once prayed that god would see a conservative politician elected so we could smash those commies in 'Nam. But now I have seen the light!

Just for the record, I'm an atheist conservative. Both parties will show up in church when the cameras are on.

You don't mention why you made the switch. Did this light you saw blind you?

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


Shock tactics by a fringe group. And there's no way to call factory farming natural. The natural way is to hunt your food down and kill it or to bait a hook and pull it out of the water with a net.

I can kind of see PETA's point in which we should really think about where are food comes from. And PETA probably will be paying for that little shocker for a while yet. I don't think PETA really makes an impact, if they really do then how?

Yes, you do need to link it because the official FBI site doesn't list ELF as a threat. Unless they are also members of the Freeman and other militia groups. Or maybe they are also bombing abortion clinics. That's all I see about domestic terrorists.

Please only link to official government sites.

You aren't qualified for this discussion and have provided no new information. Even worse, you limit yourself by saying the only "domestic" problems with extremism is by the guy who blew up the abortion clinics. He was one guy. I am talking about an extremist group with millions of members that have formed a sub-nation in America. Not to insult you or anything, but I don't have the time to teach you the things you need to know before you start discussing advanced extremism in this thread.

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.

How do homosexuals indoctrinate children? How do homosexuals terrorize hetrosexuals? Do they use bombings, shooting et?

Homosexual groups indoctrinate children so that children can be candidates for homosexual recruitment. For example, in a textbook that I acquired of a 3rd grade music class, the textbook instructs the teacher to allow and encourage male children to dance together so that they will be less hostile to such circumstances they may encounter in society. That is pretty laughable. Plus, pro-homosexual groups are prevelant at public schools giving "sex-ed" classes of all types to children. There are countless news articles on this as well. Since homosexuality is only an issue with less than 4% of the national population, why are 100% of the children in the public school system being indoctrinated into its training?


JK

The textbook's name, author, and number so I may look it up?

Which pro-homosexual groups are prevelant at public schools giving sex-ed? Where are these news articles?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by dmarker
But aren't those marches crushing the economy of those neighborhoods?

And the ACLU stepped in to ensure that the local governments obeyed the Constitution. They fought several legal battles and now the Neo-Nazis and Klan can march freely wherever they wish. Isn't this the opposite of promoting a leftist agenda?

As for the terrorist suspects, how do you know that our government actually gave them the right to call out? Because they said so? Even the framers of the Constitution didn't trust the Government, and you expect everyone else to?

And here we come to child molesters. Frankly, I'm all for much longer sentences for child molesting. Plus, I'm for chemical castration or even surgical castration for those who are repeat offenders with plenty of evidence against them. Maybe even the death penalty for those who are incorrigible after these steps are taken. However the law of the land sets up certain punishments and notifying local police of their whereabouts will have to do until we can toughen up those sentences. dmarker,

With all due respect your logic has one single fatal flaw. In can be sumed up in two words, "Jedi Knight." Though my politics are somewhat different than yours I still must cheer you on and offer you my sincere best wishes in your discussions with JK.

In all fairness many have had enjoyed their comunications with JK. I have grown to like the guy and it is probably unfair of me to harp on him so much. Still his refusal to respond in what I think is a meaningful way can be quite frustrating.

Good luck and I look forward to his responses to you.

FWIW, I never mentioned hiring. I just pointed out that text books and course content is controlled on the local level. If this is not so then why have members of the Religious Right taken over school boards after they lost the evolution battle in appelate courts? Why do they want to join such impotent groups unless school boards are not so impotent after all? good argument, good question.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.


I'm not surprised that you use "feminazi", even though the Nazis themselves weren't feminist. How is "equal pay for equal work" undermining our country?

Women are paid equally. You are quoting a feminist myth. The term "feminazi" illustrates matriarchal totalitarianism, where the totalitarianism is fascist like the Nazis. It fits really well.


JK

But not always, NOW promoted that concept so it is true presently.

And what is matriarchal totalitarianism?

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You aren't qualified for this discussion and have provided no new information. Even worse, you limit yourself by saying the only "domestic" problems with extremism is by the guy who blew up the abortion clinics. He was one guy. I am talking about an extremist group with millions of members that have formed a sub-nation in America. Not to insult you or anything, but I don't have the time to teach you the things you need to know before you start discussing advanced extremism in this thread.

JK

The link, sweetie, you said that you could link to it. Put up or shut up.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
Yes, you do need to link it because the official FBI site doesn't list ELF as a threat.

You obviously didn't look hard enough. The FBI lists ELF as the premier domestic terrorist organization in the United States. Some of that attention was derailed because of 9/11 and the Islamic problem, but the information is there.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


The link, sweetie, you said that you could link to it. Put up or shut up.

Oh, so now you went from "there are no extremists" in America except for "abortion clinic bombers", to "put up or shut up". Panties in a knot now, huh.

JK

[RandFan]

Originally posted by RandFan
Still his refusal to respond in what I think is a meaningful way can be quite frustrating. Originally posted by Jedi Knight
You aren't qualified for this discussion and have provided no new information. QED

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
And what is matriarchal totalitarianism?

Matriarchal Totalitarianism is a term I created to describe the current political conditions in the United States.

lol.

Do we need to go through this again with another 50 pages? I take it you are new to this political forum.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by RandFan
QED

Randfan, when a leftist denies leftist extremism exists in America, what else can be said? lol. Come on, you know I bend over backwards for folks who have the slightest clue about politics, but I dismiss those in denial. It is like trying to make a "Christian" into a "Muslim", and like Mr. Randi says it isn't worth the energy.

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Originally posted by dmarker
No, this just begs more questions.

I like questions.


How do protest marches crush the economy? Isn't Freedom of Assembly guaranteed in our Constitution? Didn't the former Soviet Union and present China suppress this freedom violently? Shouldn't we be better than those countries and allow people to express opinions no matter how midguided and silly?

Duh, by stopping commerce.

Who are the leaders of the NAACP? Sorry, I'm not up on this.

Use a search engine and look it up. I am not going to do the easy things for you. Don't be lazy.

Even Fox network, Bush's cheerleaders in this war? Is Rush Limbaugh part of the Leftist elite because he is part of the major media?

Oh, so conservatives have two of ten thousand media outlets going and that is balance? Not.

From your list it sounds like the Leftist are a pretty big chunk of the country. Are you saying that our country should suppress all these people?

No, leftism always seeks to empower the few while terrorizing the many. Only a small group of folks in comparison to the populations they represent have true power in leftism. Read "The Black Book of Communism" for further details.

JK

I'll condense this. First, has any march closed down a business? Is commerce so important that we have to deny everybody their right to assemble peacefully?

I did look up the leaders of the NAACP, pretty stable people by the looks of them. They have backgrounds in finance, law, and academics for the most part.

Oh, please! Only two! Fox is huge between movies and three national cable channels. Limbaugh is broadcast throughout the country as is G. Gordon Liddy. Name one truly liberal TV or radio show that is national. Not the Bill Maher libertarian stuff, liberal!

But you haven't proved anything have you?

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Matriarchal Totalitarianism is a term I created to describe the current political conditions in the United States.

lol.

Do we need to go through this again with another 50 pages? I take it you are new to this political forum.

JK

Ok, great then you can give me the definition other than "when chicks do something I don't like".

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh, so now you went from "there are no extremists" in America except for "abortion clinic bombers", to "put up or shut up". Panties in a knot now, huh.

JK

You stated that ELF was the number one domestic terrorism priority for the FBI. However the FBI doesn't mention ELF at all. I just want the link that you promised.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by RandFan
dmarker,

With all due respect your logic has one single fatal flaw. In can be sumed up in two words, "Jedi Knight." Though my politics are somewhat different than yours I still must cheer you on and offer you my sincere best wishes in your discussions with JK.

In all fairness many have had enjoyed their comunications with JK. I have grown to like the guy and it is probably unfair of me to harp on him so much. Still his refusal to respond in what I think is a meaningful way can be quite frustrating.

Good luck and I look forward to his responses to you.

FWIW, good argument, good question.

He doesn't get it. He is saying that coursework is approved at the local level after I just got done explaining to him that the "local level" is the leftists hired at the public school. Who do you think is pulling in the leftist indoctrination of public school children? Where did the leftist doping up of kids on Ritalin and all the other psycho-drugs come from? It came from leftist organization taken from the Soviet Union.

Check out how boys in schools are drugged and the controversy over that. The former Soviet Union used to drug people that had problems conforming to the communist system. That is what is happening now in American public schools.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


You stated that ELF was the number one domestic terrorism priority for the FBI. However the FBI doesn't mention ELF at all. I just want the link that you promised.

You need to learn how to use a search engine.

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Of course you didn't mention hiring. Hiring is the key to leftist control--to making the public schools "leftist". They couldn't make them leftist unless they hire leftist minions to run them, right?

The school boards don't matter. School boards allocate slots to hire new teachers, but have nothing to do with the leftist system that absorbs them into the public schools system. Tell you what you need to do--start attending your local school board meetings and take a close look at that and then find a conservative teacher somewhere (good luck trying to find one) who can explain it to you in more detail. My discussion was for someone with slightly more experience than you are demonstrating.

JK

But you didn't answer the questions, JK. What happened to "I like questions"?

First, no matter who is hired the school board determines what is going to be taught period. The school could have the most flaming liberal homosexual commie as a teacher but he or she still cannot teach anything other what the school board allows.

Second, you have not denied that the Religious Right has gained access to many school boards in order to thwart the teaching of evolution as a response to losing in the appelate courts. Your silence means that you must have no counter arguement to this.

Third, what does experience have to do with this? I'm looking for evidence and so far the only thing I've seen is crackpot theories.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


He doesn't get it. He is saying that coursework is approved at the local level after I just got done explaining to him that the "local level" is the leftists hired at the public school. Who do you think is pulling in the leftist indoctrination of public school children? Where did the leftist doping up of kids on Ritalin and all the other psycho-drugs come from? It came from leftist organization taken from the Soviet Union.

Check out how boys in schools are drugged and the controversy over that. The former Soviet Union used to drug people that had problems conforming to the communist system. That is what is happening now in American public schools.

JK

Not that I'm saying that ADD isn't over diagnosed just like many other disorders, but Ritalin has been the drug of choice for those diagnosed for over twenty years.

And the teachers can't hand the stuff out, you have to have doctors as well.

The school board, not the teachers, determine the course work and buy the text books. This is the third time I've said it.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


You need to learn how to use a search engine.

JK

Then why doesn't the FBI list ELF in any of its reports on terrorism that are available through the net? How will a search engine help me there?

Besides you said that you would provide the link. So provide it already.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


But you didn't answer the questions, JK. What happened to "I like questions"?

First, no matter who is hired the school board determines what is going to be taught period. The school could have the most flaming liberal homosexual commie as a teacher but he or she still cannot teach anything other what the school board allows.

Second, you have not denied that the Religious Right has gained access to many school boards in order to thwart the teaching of evolution as a response to losing in the appelate courts. Your silence means that you must have no counter arguement to this.

Third, what does experience have to do with this? I'm looking for evidence and so far the only thing I've seen is crackpot theories.

FBI makes "Earth Liberation Front" #1 domestic terrorist organization (http://prfamerica.org/EarthLiberationFrontNo1onFBIList.html). It is at the FBI site too, but your non-researching newbieness is going to check that out yourself.

Now admit you were wrong newby. Then I will link some other items of interest so you can admit you are wrong again, and again, and again, and again.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


Then why doesn't the FBI list ELF in any of its reports on terrorism that are available through the net? How will a search engine help me there?

Besides you said that you would provide the link. So provide it already.

Well Gosh hon, I just did. Can I ask you a question--are you a lady? A feminist?

JK

[Jedi Knight]

The FBI has put Earth Liberation Front at the top of the list of domestic terrorism threats, above all of the sources of terrorism so well known to the public, Director Louis Freeh told Congress in February.

That was from the article linked above. Mr. Freeh told Congress (you know, the house and the senate in Washington DC that makes all our laws) that ELF was #1 on the terrorist list. Yep.

I posted the segment just so you wouldn't miss it. Ready to have some more research fun?

JK

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Randfan, when a leftist denies leftist extremism exists in America, what else can be said? lol. Come on, you know I bend over backwards for folks who have the slightest clue about politics, but I dismiss those in denial. It is like trying to make a "Christian" into a "Muslim", and like Mr. Randi says it isn't worth the energy. Without agreeing I will back out. It is dmarker that is engaging you. I will say that he has asked some fair questions and I wish that you would respond. In any event it is between you and demarker.

Good luck.

RandFan

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


Not that I'm saying that ADD isn't over diagnosed just like many other disorders, but Ritalin has been the drug of choice for those diagnosed for over twenty years.

And the teachers can't hand the stuff out, you have to have doctors as well.

The school board, not the teachers, determine the course work and buy the text books. This is the third time I've said it.

Well, where does the "School Board" get its budget recommendations from? Gosh, could it be the school superintendent?

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


Not that I'm saying that ADD isn't over diagnosed just like many other disorders, but Ritalin has been the drug of choice for those diagnosed for over twenty years.

And the teachers can't hand the stuff out, you have to have doctors as well.

The school board, not the teachers, determine the course work and buy the text books. This is the third time I've said it.

Man, you are right, I forgot about the ADD lol. As humans we have to put the label on it, right? But yeah, the teachers don't hand it out--they just recommend healthy boys for some "dosage" when they get out of control--you know, act like healthy young boys. Nothing more anti-leftist than an American young boy acting normal.

Then, that is where the school psychiatrist comes in.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Dmarker, you still haven't told me if you were a feminist or not. I am an arch-conservative and a member of the vast, vast, super vast, endless, without end, infinite, light-speed type right wing conspiracy.

Hell, I might even be leading the thing for all I know.

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


FBI makes "Earth Liberation Front" #1 domestic terrorist organization (http://prfamerica.org/EarthLiberationFrontNo1onFBIList.html). It is at the FBI site too, but your non-researching newbieness is going to check that out yourself.

Now admit you were wrong newby. Then I will link some other items of interest so you can admit you are wrong again, and again, and again, and again.

JK

http://prfamerica.org is the Property Foundation Rights of America. They might be a little biased.

I have searched the FBI site. I finally found something. ELF is considered a serious threat but not the number one domestic terrorist organization.

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/jarboe021202.htm

Here is the link to the report given by James F. Jarboe
Domestic Terrorism Section Chief
Counterterrorism Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation

When reading this report, note that he never says that ELF is a number one priority. He does say that they are harder to catch because they have very little organization.

"Groups such as the ALF and the ELF present unique challenges. There is little if any hierarchal structure to such entities. Eco-terrorists are unlike traditional criminal enterprises which are often structured and organized."


Start linking, my dear. I look forward to your answers.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Well Gosh hon, I just did. Can I ask you a question--are you a lady? A feminist?

JK

Are you female, male, shemale, tranny? :D

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


http://prfamerica.org is the Property Foundation Rights of America. They might be a little biased.

I have searched the FBI site. I finally found something. ELF is considered a serious threat but not the number one domestic terrorist organization.

http://www.fbi.gov/congress/congress02/jarboe021202.htm

Here is the link to the report given by James F. Jarboe
Domestic Terrorism Section Chief
Counterterrorism Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation

When reading this report, note that he never says that ELF is a number one priority. He does say that they are harder to catch because they have very little organization.

"Groups such as the ALF and the ELF present unique challenges. There is little if any hierarchal structure to such entities. Eco-terrorists are unlike traditional criminal enterprises which are often structured and organized."


Start linking, my dear. I look forward to your answers.

Wow, you called me "sweetie" and "my dear"--that is unusual. You must be a girl, right? It is important that I know. I told you I was an arch-conservative--it helps me know where you are coming from.

Now for the details. It is important for the details to be clear, correct? Go to the article I linked and it says that Mr. Freeh briefed Congress that ELF was #1 on the domestic terrorist list. Since Mr. Freeh briefed Congress and said that, isn't that proof?

We aren't going to get into, you know, what the definition of "is" is on the forum now, are we?

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


Are you female, male, shemale, tranny? :D

Oh, I am a heterosexual masculine male. :D

I only have sex with conservative women.

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Dmarker, you still haven't told me if you were a feminist or not. I am an arch-conservative and a member of the vast, vast, super vast, endless, without end, infinite, light-speed type right wing conspiracy.

Hell, I might even be leading the thing for all I know.

JK

I never said that there was a right wing conspiracy even a small one. I never said that there were no extreme left groups either. I just challenged your notion of a left wing conspiracy.

Personally, I don't suscribe to conspiracy theories, mostly because I've never seen evidence for one. So I put it under the same category as Bigfoot and the Loch Ness monster, until the person who suscribes to a conspiracy theory brings evidence, I will remain skeptical.

By the way, I'm pretty feminist. Equal pay for equal work, women should be recognized for valid acheivements and all that.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker
By the way, I'm pretty feminist. Equal pay for equal work, women should be recognized for valid acheivements and all that.

I knew you were. At least you are polite for a feminist and haven't swore at me yet.

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Wow, you called me "sweetie" and "my dear"--that is unusual. You must be a girl, right? It is important that I know. I told you I was an arch-conservative--it helps me know where you are coming from.

Now for the details. It is important for the details to be clear, correct? Go to the article I linked and it says that Mr. Freeh briefed Congress that ELF was #1 on the domestic terrorist list. Since Mr. Freeh briefed Congress and said that, isn't that proof?

We aren't going to get into, you know, what the definition of "is" is on the forum now, are we?

JK

How do you know that I'm not a gay man? Or a man who dropped a few "sweeties" and "my dears" to give the impression of feminity? Who cares where I'm coming from, what really matters is the evidence that I bring.

The link I have is headed like this:

February 12, 2002


Statement of James F. Jarboe
Domestic Terrorism Section Chief
Counterterrorism Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation


on
The Threat of Eco-Terrorism


Before the House Resources Committee
Subcommittee on Forests and Forest Health

Your link is wrong because they have bias against ELF, for valid reasons I'm sure, but they have bias none the less and I think that I will go with Jarboe's report for accuracy.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


I knew you were. At least you are polite for a feminist and haven't swore at me yet.

JK

I have better tactics than that, JK.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


How do you know that I'm not a gay man? Or a man who dropped a few "sweeties" and "my dears" to give the impression of feminity? Who cares where I'm coming from, what really matters is the evidence that I bring.

The link I have is headed like this:

February 12, 2002


Statement of James F. Jarboe
Domestic Terrorism Section Chief
Counterterrorism Division
Federal Bureau of Investigation


on
The Threat of Eco-Terrorism


Before the House Resources Committee
Subcommittee on Forests and Forest Health

Your link is wrong because they have bias against ELF, for valid reasons I'm sure, but they have bias none the less and I think that I will go with Jarboe's report for accuracy.

Oh so you are saying that Mr. Freeh did not state to Congress that ELF was #1 on the domestic terrorist list when he gave them that briefing?

That is pretty bold denial and I would really hate to start going down the "what the "is" is" trail. So let me ask you before I post again--do you think Mr. Freeh did not tell Congress that ELF was #1 on the domestic terrorist list?

BTW, I am not gay, and if you are a gay man I would appreciate it if you quit calling me "sweetie". Thnx. I reserve that right for conservative chicks. :D

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


I have better tactics than that, JK.

Oh really--hopefully using facts in debate perhaps?

JK

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh really--hopefully using facts in debate perhaps?

JK

Like the name, author, and number of the textbook used in the gay agenda? :D


Time for bed. You have a few hours to answer the questions.

By the way, I love straight boys, so butch.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by dmarker


Like the name, author, and number of the textbook used in the gay agenda? :D


Time for bed. You have a few hours to answer the questions.

By the way, I love straight boys, so butch.

Oh, I get it. This entire time you were fishing for the author and title of the children's music book that I mentioned that instructs music teachers to let 3rd grade male students dance with other 3rd grade male students so they could accept it as normal.

I am not that easy, Dmarker. Prying me for information can be tough. I may tell you a month from now, or six months, if ever. Hell, you know so much about the "school system", you can use your super-access and find out yourself lol.

JK

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I may tell you a month from now, or six months, if ever.
How many times have we heard this before? "I have top-secret information proving that only stars generate gravity/life originated on Mars/Hitler was an atheist/Matriarchal Feminazi Communists control everything/etc... but I won't show it to you because you're just a hateful commie leftist."

[Smalso]

I have absolute proof that Saddam and Osama are sharing an apartment in Charlotte, North Carolina, and that they are registered Democrats and have filed for election to the city council. I am not going to furnish the proof. If you are too stupid to look it up for yourself, tough. You'll just have to take my word for it.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Smalso
I have absolute proof that Saddam and Osama are sharing an apartment in Charlotte, North Carolina, and that they are registered Democrats and have filed for election to the city council. I am not going to furnish the proof. If you are too stupid to look it up for yourself, tough. You'll just have to take my word for it.

Well Mr. G. Adams, want to wager on it? I provided a link for the ELF being put on the #1 domestic terrorist list after I was challenged on that.

The fact is that there are people who need better research skills. Hey, you mind if I call you Grizzly?

JK

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
I provided a link for the ELF being put on the #1 domestic terrorist list after I was challenged on that.
And well done, JK. The source was perhaps not the least biased one available - other sources have Louis Freeh calling the ELF a leading terrorist group, not the #1 - but... fair enough. Interestingly Freeh also mentioned the anti-abortion movement as one of the leading terrorist organisations - and they're hardly leftists, eh?

(Just for the record: I think the ELF and ALF are a bunch of twats. Dangerous twats, even.)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Aardvark_DK

And well done, JK.

Genius, even.

JK

[Aardvark_DK]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight
Genius, even.
Aaaand... there you go behaving like a prat again.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh, I get it. This entire time you were fishing for the author and title of the children's music book that I mentioned that instructs music teachers to let 3rd grade male students dance with other 3rd grade male students so they could accept it as normal.

I am not that easy, Dmarker. Prying me for information can be tough. I may tell you a month from now, or six months, if ever. Hell, you know so much about the "school system", you can use your super-access and find out yourself lol.

JK

Then you don't have it.

Added during edit:

I say that you don't have that book because it doesn't exist and has never existed. Just like Freeh's speech about ELF being the number one domestic terror threat "above all of the sources of terrorism so well known to the public".

No one ever said that other than the Property Rights Foundation of America, Inc. And I think that text book only exists in your own mind.

[dmarker]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Oh so you are saying that Mr. Freeh did not state to Congress that ELF was #1 on the domestic terrorist list when he gave them that briefing?

That is pretty bold denial and I would really hate to start going down the "what the "is" is" trail. So let me ask you before I post again--do you think Mr. Freeh did not tell Congress that ELF was #1 on the domestic terrorist list?

BTW, I am not gay, and if you are a gay man I would appreciate it if you quit calling me "sweetie". Thnx. I reserve that right for conservative chicks. :D

JK

I am saying that I could only find one FBI paper read to Congress about ELF but it wasn't read by Freeh, darling. If there is another FBI paper read by Freeh in the month of February, they are keeping it secret. By the way it wasn't reported that way in the Washington Post either.

http://discuss.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/zforum/02/fbi0227.htm

The Post article clearly says that it was Jarboe who delivered the paper to Congress. Obviously Property Foundation Rights of America has enganged in a little propaganda.

Yes, snookums, I am saying that Freeh never spoke to Congress about eco-terrorism. Jarboe did but he never said that ELF is or was the number one domestic terrorist group in the country.

[Supercharts]

I have acquired The New Thought Police by Tammy Bruce from a local library and have read it. It has opened my eyes.
This is a great book by a former member of N.O.W.
Regardless of your opinion of JK I really recommend this book.
The examples of liberal bias throughout the American media and political system are fact-based and sourced.
The media is using the tactics of $cientology in demeaning and attacking anyone who disagrees with them. Ms. Bruce clearly identifies the real agendas of N.O.W., the "Rainbow" collation, Jesse Jackson etc. Is it the "Left" or something else? It seems to be some attack of an individuals right to think and form an opinion, which isn't 'sanctioned' by these groups.