Is there a connection between Mexican food and Hispanics high obesity and diabetes?

[jay gw]

Diabetes in Hispanic Americans is a serious health challenge because of the increased prevalence of diabetes in this population, the greater number of risk factors for diabetes in Hispanics, the greater incidence of several diabetes complications, and the growing number of people of Hispanic ethnicity in the United States.

Diabetes is particularly common among middle-aged and older Hispanic Americans. For those age 50 or older, about 25 to 30 percent have either diagnosed or undiagnosed diabetes. Diabetes is two to three times more common in Mexican American and Puerto Rican adults than in non-Hispanic whites.

http://www.med.umich.edu/1libr/aha/umhisp01.htm

Childhood obesity is more prevalent among Hispanic children than in other ethnic groups, and the U.S. problem has been steadily increasing over the past decade.

http://www.ars.usda.gov/is/AR/archive/jun03/track0603.htm

Diabetes is the 4th leading cause of death for Hispanic women and elderly.

http://www.ndep.nih.gov/diabetes/pubs/FS_HispLatino_Eng.pdf

Take a look at this Mexican food:

http://altura.speedera.net/ccimg.catalogcity.com/220000/226400/226404/Products/10681811.jpg


Three meals a day there are always tortillas and beans. Burritos, tacos and enchiladas - all carbohydrates.

Sometimes there's meat, sometimes not - more often there is. The food is very salty, and Mexicans do not use anything but animal fats to cook with there are no olive or other oils used very often.

Is there some kind of "cultural sensitivity" thing going on that no one will point out the fact that food that's all carbohydrates, animal fats/lard and salt is causing epidemics of health problems in Hispanics??

[Donks]

So, Puerto Ricans also eat a lot of Mexican food? What does the data look like for non-Mexican hispanics? Are all hispanics "Mexican Americans"?

[jay gw]

So, Puerto Ricans also eat a lot of Mexican food? What does the data look like for non-Mexican hispanics? Are all hispanics "Mexican Americans"?

Who told you Puerto Ricans eat Mexican food?

As for the rates of obesity and diabetes among non Mexican Hispanics, they are higher than for Whites just like Mexican Hispanics.

The highest obesity rates are among Blacks, who if you know anything about their diets, have HORRIBLE diets high in fats like lard and no fruits or vitamins much.

These groups also have no health insurance they use the public health system.

[Donks]

Originally posted by jay gw
Who told you Puerto Ricans eat Mexican food?
Look at your opening post:
Diabetes is two to three times more common in Mexican American and Puerto Rican adults than in non-Hispanic whites.
If Puerto Ricans don't have a similar diet, yet suffer from the same health issues, perhaps you should reexamine your conclusion.
As for the rates of obesity and diabetes among non Mexican Hispanics, they are higher than for Whites, but not as high as for Mexican Americans who have the second highest rates.
Behind whom? Native Americans, who share a genetic heritage with Latinos?
The highest obesity rates are among Blacks, who if you know anything about their diets, have HORRIBLE diets high in fats like lard and no fruits or vitamins much.
So diet is not the only factor involved? There may be other factors? Then how did you come to your conclusion?

[Lisa Simpson]

Originally posted by Donks

Behind whom? Native Americans, who share a genetic heritage with Latinos?



I read an interesting article this morning about the debate concerning diabetes amongst Native Americans and their tradition of eating fry bread.


Among Indians, the prevalence of Type 2 diabetes — the most common form — is more than double what it is in the general population. Fueled by obesity, poor diet and a sedentary lifestyle, Type 2 diabetes is occurring a full decade sooner in Indians, when people are between 20 and 29 years old.

Many believe the diabetes rate began to skyrocket when Indians stopped living off the land and began using government rations. For decades, researchers with the
National Institutes of Health have been studying the Pima Indians in Arizona, who have the highest incidence of diabetes in the world, to determine if there is a genetic reason they are more susceptible to the disease.

Here on the Tohono O'odham reservation near Tucson, more than half the 14,000 residents have diabetes. A $4 million dialysis center is under construction, necessary to serve all the people who have developed kidney disease from diabetes.

At the Sells hospital, it's unusual for doctors to see a tribal member who doesn't have diabetes. It is so prevalent, doctors and nutritionists struggle to convince Indians they can help prevent it.

The attitude is, "I'm going to get it anyway," Dr. Paul Weintraub said. "And to some extent, it's true. They will get it."

Gloria Maldonado has lived with diabetes for 22 years. Her mother had it, so does her brother and her 24-year-old daughter.

"I figured sooner or later I would get it," she said as Weintraub examined her.

Fry bread didn't get Maldonado, 53, in this situation by itself, of course. She struggles to give up junk food and doesn't exercise.

ETA--Stupid long Yahoo addys.

http://tinyurl.com/7gbzm

[gnome]

I don't have facts to back me up, but I have been under the impression that most Mexicans (including Mexican-Americans?) don't actually habitually eat what Americans think of as Mexican food.

Can someone that knows what they're talking about (instead of me) speak to this point?

[luchog]

Originally posted by gnome
I don't have facts to back me up, but I have been under the impression that most Mexicans (including Mexican-Americans?) don't actually habitually eat what Americans think of as Mexican food.

Can someone that knows what they're talking about (instead of me) speak to this point?

Well, being someone who has studied Mexican cuisines as a hobby (I love cooking), I can say that the original post is more or less BS. There is no "Mexican food". What most Americans think of as Mexican is actually "Tex-Mex", a hybrid of the cuisines of American Southwest and north central Mexico. Most inland (drier) Mexican regional cuisines are fairly meat-based; but do include a lot of vegetables, particularly squashes, tomatoes, and chiles; as well as legumes, tubers, grains, roots, and cactii. It also tends to use dairy more often than coastal cuisines. It's moderately high in fat, but not badly so. Cooking is done most often in lard.

Coastal cuisines tend to be based as much on seafood as on meat; and tend to have more leafy vegetables and fruits; and are generally lower in fat. Cooking is done at least as much in vegetable oils as in lard.

The problem with Americanized "Mexican" food is that it's very high in fat, uses a lot of highly processed foods, and doesn't use as much fresh vegetable and fruit as traditional cuisines.

The reason that most Hispanic communities in the US have such a high rate of Type2 Diebetes is simply poor diet. Eating the same high-fat, high-sugar, heavily processed junk food that Caucasians, Asians, and Blacks eat; but in much higher quantities than either Caucasians or Asians.

[Perpetual Notion]

Originally posted by Lisa Simpson
I read an interesting article this morning about the debate concerning diabetes amongst Native Americans and their tradition of eating fry bread.




ETA--Stupid long Yahoo addys.

http://tinyurl.com/7gbzm

I live in Tucson and worked at a hospital where the people from Sells came for all of their major surgeries and other serious health problems. The hospital in Sells is small and very limited in what it can provide. The incidence of diabetes is so high in Sells that the dialysis unit at that hospital has a waitlist and many people ride shuttles into Tucson three days a week for their treatment. This is over a two hour round trip and many of the people making it are elderly. After dialysis you are completely exhausted and I honestly don't know how these people can continue to do it.

The Tohono O'odham have been studied extensively and the native foods which they traditionally gathered and ate actually have properties which control diabetes. There was also a lot of physical activity that went into gathering these plants that no longer happens. People eat a lot of junk food and unfortunately, they also drink. Working with this population was very frustrating because part of my job was to talk to them about following their diet and taking their insulin. Many of them are suspicious of insulin and a very Kumar sort of way.

I got tired of beating my head against the wall. One day I had both a father and a son on my floor who were both there for amputations. I don't believe it was the first one for the father. My feeling was that if having parts of your body gradually hacked off isn't enough to convince you to quit drinking and take your medicine then nothing I have to say is going to change that.

The only doctor I knew who had any success in helping these folks had worked for the IHS for something like 20 years and he would ask them who the guardian was for their children because if they hadn't chosen one they should do so within the next few months. That seemed to make an impression on some people.

There are some excellent. committed people who work with the communities to try to affect change, but it seemed like too much of an insurmountable problem for me to keep toughing it out.

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by jay gw
....Three meals a day there are always tortillas and beans. Burritos, tacos and enchiladas - all carbohydrates.

Sometimes there's meat, sometimes not - more often there is. The food is very salty, and Mexicans do not use anything but animal fats to cook with there are no olive or other oils used very often.

Is there some kind of "cultural sensitivity" thing going on that no one will point out the fact that food that's all carbohydrates, animal fats/lard and salt is causing epidemics of health problems in Hispanics??

No, but it takes a certain amount of cultural insensitivity to assume that Hispanics as a group eat that particular diet.

[casebro]

I've been diabetic for half of my 53 years. I've followed the news and spent hundreds of hours on Google, here are some factoids I've learned:

It's in the genes, you can't give somebody diabetes if they don't have the genes for it.

Some groups even know which gene, Pima indians are one, and mine is Mitochondrial based, maternally inherited.

Tight sugar control will stave of long term complications- by about 3 years. The parameters the medicos reccommend are so tight that you will need to lower your sugar to the point where you need emergency services once a year for a low sugar episode. The biggest study (UKPDS, look it up) found that intense therapy did NOT gain enough to even pay for the additional drugs....

As somebody above hinted 'something missing from their native diet', I've just found that Hops (the beer ingredient) is very beneficial to me. I swallow some pellets (looks like rabbit food) 2-3 times a day, 1-2 grams / day, cost $5/month. My triglycerides are down, which shows lower cholesterol. And it also lowered my microalbumin by 75%, almost to normal. And I'm feeling much better. Here's some sites:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=15294636&dopt=Citation

http://www.jbc.org/cgi/content/abstract/279/32/33456

I'm a home brewer, and I learned from a recipe book that it isn't just the alcohol in beer that makes you feel better, it's the hops too. Health food stores sell Hop tea, for a good night's sleep. So I googled, and tried it...


I think big advances will be made when they study the different genetic groups of patients and figure the best life styles for each patient. This is starting now, with last years reccommedation to treat Black's hypertension with a different protocol than Whites. Who knows? Maybe some folks need more Rutabaga peels in their diet?

[epepke]

Originally posted by gnome
I don't have facts to back me up, but I have been under the impression that most Mexicans (including Mexican-Americans?) don't actually habitually eat what Americans think of as Mexican food.

I lived in Mexico for a while, and that's more or less correct. Tacos exist in Mexico, in a somewhat different form, but they're considered snacks, like hot dogs. Typically made by street vendors. Sit-down food is much more along European lines but using a lot of maize. Where I was, in Jalisco, typical sit-down meals were more along the lines of mole (a generic term for a sauce, misture, or stew), pozole (a rich soup with hominy), queso fundido (a kind of fondue). Rice and refried beans are common, even at breakfast. A typical breakfast in that area is chilaquiles (fried tortilla strips simmered in a tomato and onion sauce), rice, refried beans, and coffee with cinammon. Fruit and fruit juices are also common. Guacamole is usually used as a salad dressing, not as a dip. What we call "tortilla chips" are also present, but you don't usually get a basket of them, just one like a shark fin in your beans.

[bjb]

I'm Mexican so I voted 'strongly agree' based on my family's experience with obesity and diabetes. Both sides of my family have these problems, but only the ones who eat the traditional Mexican lard-based foods such as refried beans, Spanish rice, enchiladas, tamales, menudo, pork rinds (pig skin fried in lard), etc. Most of my relatives still live in Arizona and this type of diet is typical, but some of my family live in Oregon and California, and they've become more Americanized so they don't eat the stereotypical Mexican foods. They also tend to have fewer health problems. My dad is 70 and he's been dealing with his diabetes for the last 10 years mostly by watching his diet. However, one of my aunts was diagnosed with diabetes and high blood pressure, but she just couldn't deal with changing her diet so after a year or so, she died of a brain aneurysm. There was so much blood that at first, her family thought she had been shot in the head.

I'll let you guys argue as to who is Hispanic and who isn't, or what is Mexican food and what isn't, but based on my own experience, a lot of Mexicans eat a great deal more lard/salt/sugar than most people and, at least in my family, this is causing problems with obesity and diabetes.

[crimresearch]

Well, that is kind of the point isn't it?

Speculation based on incorrect labelling and broad sweeping assumptions is worth how much again?

It has been very popular recently to trot out these 'dangerous Hispanic diets', and 'high calorie Asian diets', with media fueled implication that they are somehow resonsible for 'epidemics' of obesity.

But are they? Or can a Puerto Rican family get just as fat on McDonalds? Or General Tso's Chicken?

If someone eats a traditional diet from Spain or Costa Rica, and they don't get fat, does that mean they aren't 'real Hispanics?

[stup_id]

Hello everybody!

Being Mexican, I thought I was compelled to reply to this post.

Mexican food as we know it nowadays, it's a mixture of different dietetic habits, from native americans and spanish people.

Original mexican food, only consisted in tomatos, chile, squash, pumpkin and maize as main sources of food, and ocasionally some protein sources such as turkey, deer, fishes or seafood; (this was for the more empowered economically).

Unfortunately with the conquest by spain, the traditions for cooking got mixed in a way to prefer the "tasty" over the nutritious, in fact, originally the precolombine american diet was one of the lowest source of fat and animal protein. HOwever, since the introduction of animal products, such as pork, beef and all the domestic animals, lots of animal fat sources got introduced.

Anyway, the "mexican food" known in US is completely different than the food all mexican people eat everyday (I live here and I have also traveled around Mexico lots of times). The main oil mexican people use is Corn Oil, or antoher vegetable source. The tacos people in mexico eat are usually without oil, they are just cooked over a heated metal called "comal". Of course there are a lot of snacks which are very high in fat, but the big majority of population eats them just sporadically.

The main problem (this is a personal opinion) with the way mexican's eat in Mexico (in the US I don't think is the same landscape); is that most of them are very poor to demand them to eat "healthy" food, they just eat thinking about getting filled with the least amount of money necessary (when you have many children to feed, that is important) and of course they are going to go for the cheap and filling food which in most cases is junk food, instead of "wasting" money in the ingredients necessary to make a salad that won't "feed" them enough.

Also there is a strong genetic propensity for Hispanics to have higher incidence of type II diabetes (my own school of medicine is doing research in some special receptors in pancreas which seem to be muted in most hispanics).

Aditionally there have been some claims about some researchers ( I don't have the sources with me but it was said to me in an Internal Medicine lesson), that our standars to measure obesity (principally BMI) may be very imperfect to asses the real risk for cardiovascular diseases, particulary with dealing with different ethnicities, this may be because the shapes of healthy bodies varies with the ethnicity (e.g. african ascendence people tend to be more musculous because of genetics)...

well this is some ideas i have now to contribute to this topic... see ya

[Perpetual Notion]

Thanks for your post stup_id. Your research sounds interesting. I have friends who were born in Mexico and now live here and friends who are several generations removed from their Mexican roots. Their families tend to eat quite differently. My girlfriend who's from Hermosillo does a lot of grilling and there are always lots of vegetables, particularly mushrooms and squash on her table. They don't use lard to cook anything except tamales at Christmas.

My other girlfriend eats what most people consider typical Mexican food with lots of refried beans and fattier cuts of meat. Her father owns a Mexican restaurant and they eat what he brings home.

The thing is that almost all poor people have lousy diets because crummy food is cheaper than fresh. Poor white people are eating boxed macaroni and cheese, canned biscuits and pork and beans. That stuff is cheap and filling and it goes on sale a lot.

It will be interesting to see what happens to disease patterns as people of different ethnicities marry and have kids.

[jay gw]

I live on the border of the US/Mexico which is why I bring this up.

This area is 90 percent Mexican-American and the obesity is a HUGE problem, along with diabetes. There are more diabetics and obese people per 1000 in this city than anywhere in America.

It's constantly on the front page but never seems to get through to the population that their diets are really bad.

Most traditional Mexican cooking uses lard/animal fats and breads and salt. It's never changed even though science warns people to stay away from it. The restaurants do not cook with anything but lard and use alot of salt in everything and so do cooks at home. Every time I have out of towners and take them to restaurants they comment on how greasy and salty the food is.

There has never been a Hispanic "healthy living revolution" public awareness program and the public health system is going broke because so many of the children are really fat and unhealthy.

Americans are exposed to messages about healthy diets all the time but the Hispanic world in Latin America is not. They don't really have the schools and money to educate anyone. They all still use the same ingredients and prepare food the same way they always have.

Even with the education Americans are still very obese, more than most people in the world.

[Donks]

Oh so you just extrapolated your observations to the whole US, and then the whole continent. How did I fail to notice such a valid assumption. Stupid me, I looked up the numbers. From here (http://www.eatlas.idf.org/), free registration if you want to see the tables, or you can look at the pretty colored map.
Diabetes incidence in America in 2003 (the continent)

Country DM prevalence (%)
Cuba 13.2%
Puerto Rico 13.2%
Netherlands Antilles 12.3%
Dominican Republic 10.0%
French Guiana 11.1%
Aruba 9.7%
Bermuda 9.7%
Cayman Islands 9.7%
Bahamas 9.0%
Canada 9.0%
Suriname 8.6%
Barbados 8.5%
Dominica, Commonwealth of 8.4%
British Virgin Islands 8.3%
USA 8.0%
Trinidad and Tobago 7.9%
St Vincent and the Grenadines 7.7%
Mexico 7.4%
Panama 7.3%
Jamaica 7.2%
Costa Rica 6.9%
Grenada 6.8%
Uruguay 6.8%
St Kitts and Nevis 6.6%
Guadeloupe 6.5%
Martinique 6.5%
El Salvador 6.2%
St Lucia 6.2%
Nicaragua 6.1%
Guyana 6.0%
Antigua 5.8%
Belize 5.7%
Haiti 5.7%
Honduras 5.7%
Chile 5.6%
Anguilla 5.5%
Guatemala 5.5%
Argentina 5.4%
Brazil 5.2%
Venezuela 5.2%
Peru 5.1%
Bolivia 4.8%
Ecuador 4.8%
Colombia 4.3%
Paraguay 3.9%

Perhaps you should be worried about the Canadians. If they all cross the border, the incidence of diabetes in the US goes up. If all Mexicans crossthe border, it goes down. Or maybe go bitch about the Cubans and Puerto Ricans, they are really driving up the average.

[jay gw]

Those statistics mean little to nothing because nations like Mexico and Brazil do not keep statistics on most of the population, since they don't even have doctors for most of them.

Anyone that's traveled Latin America knows that the towns rarely have hospitals or doctors. Where exactly are they getting these statistics on diabetes rates from?

[Morwen]

Originally posted by crimresearch

If someone eats a traditional diet from Spain or Costa Rica, and they don't get fat, does that mean they aren't 'real Hispanics?
Er, just for the record, a "traditional diet from Spain" could not be more different from Mexican or Tex-Mex food. You can, of course, get fat on any diet in the book, from Spain or wherever. But food and cooking in Spain are very, very different from what you'd find (I gather) in Mexico.

[Donks]

Originally posted by jay gw
Those statistics mean little to nothing because nations like Mexico and Brazil do not keep statistics on most of the population, since they don't even have doctors for most of them.

Anyone that's traveled Latin America knows that the towns rarely have hospitals or doctors. Where exactly are they getting these statistics on diabetes rates from?
So your refutation is "your data is worthless because I say so." Ok.

Here, (http://care.diabetesjournals.org/cgi/content/full/26/7/2021) I found you another study of diabetes (this one focuses only on Type II, which accounts for most cases of diabetes). This one found a prevalence of 8.18% amog adults, though they admit the figure might be underestimated. I await your criticism of their methodology.

[rppa]

Originally posted by jay gw
Those statistics mean little to nothing because nations like Mexico and Brazil do not keep statistics on most of the population, since they don't even have doctors for most of them.

Wow, you packed a lot of ignorance into one short post. I think you just dismissed the entire World Health Organization, and every study based on sampling (which would include pretty much every medical study ever done), including in the US.

Anyone that's traveled Latin America

Have you? Have you lived there? Did you know that if you just spend a couple of days in a Hilton, you have no idea what the situation for local medical care is?

[jay gw]

From the study that claims they tested 42,000 Mexican adults:

CONCLUSIONS

Our objective was to describe, based on a population-based survey, the characteristics of individuals affected by type 2 diabetes living in México. The results may help to clarify why diabetes has become the principle cause of death in Mexican adults.

____

First, the study does not say where their sample population comes from, which is a big hole that could mean it's useless.

What part of the conclusion contradicts what I said several times in the original post?

What's the common theme among millions of people in a country? DIETARY STANDARDS are a common theme. There are many cases of the foods from Latin countries exported to the US and they are full of lead and poisons.

I didn't they were the ONLY theme I said it was very suspicious they eat salty greasy non hygenic foods and are diagnosed with diabetes and obesity about 3 times more than non Hispanics.

I found you another study of diabetes

Since you are so adept at finding studies, how about looking for this one:

The study on conditions in food processing factories, restaurants and markets in Latin America.

(I know the answer to this already but you love to look so go ahead anyway)

[crimresearch]

Originally posted by Morwen
Er, just for the record, a "traditional diet from Spain" could not be more different from Mexican or Tex-Mex food. You can, of course, get fat on any diet in the book, from Spain or wherever. But food and cooking in Spain are very, very different from what you'd find (I gather) in Mexico.

That was indeed the point I was making.

[Donks]

Originally posted by jay gw
First, the study does not say where their sample population comes from, which is a big hole that could mean it's useless.
It could mean it's useless? Is that a wishy washy way to say you have no idea how to analyse their methodology?
What part of the conclusion contradicts what I said several times in the original post?
If Mexican food is creating an epidemic of diabetes among the hispanic population in the US, then why isn't the incidence of diabetes in Mexico even greater? Don't Mexicans eat Mexican food in Mexico?
What's the common theme among millions of people in a country? DIETARY STANDARDS are a common theme. There are many cases of the foods from Latin countries exported to the US and they are full of lead and poisons.
Please provide sources. Be sure to include one that shows what percentage of the food sent from Mexico to the US is "full of lead and poisons."
I didn't they were the ONLY theme I said it was very suspicious they eat salty greasy non hygenic foods and are diagnosed with diabetes and obesity about 3 times more than non Hispanics.
Three times? And why is the incidence of diabetes in Mexico not 3 times that of the US?
Since you are so adept at finding studies, how about looking for this one:

The study on conditions in food processing factories, restaurants and markets in Latin America.

(I know the answer to this already but you love to look so go ahead anyway)
Hmm, no. You provide your sources. I'll provide my sources when I refute your arguments.

[jay gw]

Donks said: If Mexican food is creating an epidemic of diabetes among the hispanic population in the US, then why isn't the incidence of diabetes in Mexico even greater? Don't Mexicans eat Mexican food in Mexico?

From the study Donks posted:

CONCLUSIONS

Our objective was to describe, based on a population-based survey, the characteristics of individuals affected by type 2 diabetes living in México. The results may help to clarify why diabetes has become the principle cause of death in Mexican adults.

You didn't even read the study you're posting. Diabetes is the principal cause of death, how much "greater" can the incidence be??

The common theme among the Hispanics in Latin America, Mexico in this case, and the ones in the US is the diet. They are not that closely genetically related to each other. Their diet is high in salts and greasy and it's making them go into the hospital which btw costs taxpayers HUGE amounts of dollars.

Anytime groups smoke and use heroin or have bad food they cost everybody money.

[Donks]

Originally posted by jay gw
You didn't even read the study you're posting. Diabetes is the principal cause of death, how much "greater" can the incidence be??
Case 1) Assume 100% of the population gets diabetes. Assume 51% of them die of diabetes, the rest in car crashes.
Case 2) Assume 51% of the population gets diabetes. Assume all of them die of it, and the people that don't get it die in car crashes.
What would be the prevalence of diabetes for both cases? What would be the leading cause of death in both cases?
The common theme among the Hispanics in Latin America, Mexico in this case, and the ones in the US is the diet. They are not that closely genetically related to each other.
Source?
Their diet is high in salts and greasy and it's making them go into the hospital which btw costs taxpayers HUGE amounts of dollars.
Source for your info on the diet of all hispanics?
Anytime groups smoke and use heroin or have bad food they cost everybody money.
I remember you stating that blacks have horrible diets. Can I expect to see your thread regarding the "cultural sentitivity" towards the diet of blacks?

And can I see your source for your assertion regarding the lead an poisons in food imported to te US from Mexico?

ETA: Oh, also please provide data on how much money is spent by taxpayers on healthcare, broken down by the ethnicity of the taxpayer and the recipient.

[shecky]

Another factor that seems to be overlooked is quantity of food eaten. It seems that Mexican-Americans may suffer from the same problem as most of the US: eating too much food and not exercizing enough.

ISTR a study comparing native American populations on both sides of the border, genetically very similar, with the US based samples being noticably fatter than their Mexican counterparts.

High incidence of obesity and diabetes doesn't seem limited to Mexican-Americans in the US. It's also notably a problem in places like the South(though more and more everywhere), where traditional foods are typically as lard-laden (if not moreso) as Americanized Mexican food, combined with cheap availability of food and sedentary lifestyles. The result is higher incidence of obesity and diabetes. Seems in the US, we may suffer from overabundance.

[Antiquehunter]

All I have to say is that I want a burrito and a Pacifico.

Now.

-Oke

[jay gw]

Hmm, no. You provide your sources. I'll provide my sources when I refute your arguments.

When are those sources coming anyway? I've got things to do.

Sources for my information are in the articles

"The Mexican-American diet reflects Spanish and Indian influences -- mainly vegetarian, based primarily on maize, beans and squash," said Dr. Mary Kinney Bielamowicz, a nutrition specialist and professor with the Texas Agricultural Extension Service. "It is high in complex carbohydrates and emphasizes the consumption of fruits and vegetables rich in vitamins A and C, which is just what the USDA dietary guidelines recommend."

The two drawbacks of the Mexican-American diet are the liberal use of added fat, particularly lard, and a preference for high-fat meats, she said. A contributing factor is stove-top cooking, such as stewing or frying with liberal amounts of oil and lard, instead of baking or broiling.

Most foods consumed by this group, including meat, beans, tortillas, rice and potatoes, are fried.

"When a person's diet consist of mainly fried foods, added fat and other high-fat products, this could lead to obesity," said Bielamowicz, a member of the cultural diversity committee of the American Diabetes Association-Texas Affiliate. "As a result, this individual could end up with hypertension, health disease, diabetes mellitus or a combination of these illnesses."

http://agnews.tamu.edu/dailynews/stories/HEAL/diabmex.htm

Conclusion

First-generation Mexican women stand a markedly lower risk of eating a poor diet than second-generation Mexican women, whose nutrient intake resembles that of White non-Hispanic women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7832256&dopt=Citation

Hispanic Health and Nutrition Examination Survey

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/elec_prods/subject/hhanes.htm

The Mexican use of animal fats to cook with:

Dietary acculturation among Latinos of Mexican descent
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0841/is_n4_v28/ai_14236443

Before immigrating to the United States over two-thirds of the sample included lard within the primary core diet. After immigration the use of lard declined to less than a third of the sample.

While most participants in our study were aware of the importance of decreasing fat in the diet, very few of them thought of oil as a source of fat. In fact, many participants considered oil a healthy and "good food" because "it does not contain cholesterol" and/or "is a vegetable fat." Most participants regarded lard and fat in meats as the only fat sources existing in the diet.
______

The surveys of Mexicans and immigrants in the US say they consistently use animal fats to cook with. Lard is a cause of obesity and diabetes, and so is frying in oils unless they are low fat ones.

[Donks]

Originally posted by jay gw
When are those sources coming anyway? I've got things to do.
I post sources for the claims I make. I claimed you were wrong on your claim that the Mexican diet was causing diabetes, and posted two different cources to back me up. You waved them off with a wave off the hand instead of using your own sources. And now you posted some more sources that back up my claim.
http://agnews.tamu.edu/dailynews/stories/HEAL/diabmex.htm
This is the only source that supports your conclusion. To bad the other ones you chose contradict it.
Conclusion

First-generation Mexican women stand a markedly lower risk of eating a poor diet than second-generation Mexican women, whose nutrient intake resembles that of White non-Hispanic women.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=7832256&dopt=Citation
Interesting study you picked there. First generation Mexicans eat healthier than second generation Mexicans. How does that support your conclusion that Mexican food is to blame for health risks?

Hispanic Health and Nutrition Examination Survey

http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/products/elec_prods/subject/hhanes.htm
What data did you use from this survey?

The Mexican use of animal fats to cook with:

Dietary acculturation among Latinos of Mexican descent
http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0841/is_n4_v28/ai_14236443

Before immigrating to the United States over two-thirds of the sample included lard within the primary core diet. After immigration the use of lard declined to less than a third of the sample.

While most participants in our study were aware of the importance of decreasing fat in the diet, very few of them thought of oil as a source of fat. In fact, many participants considered oil a healthy and "good food" because "it does not contain cholesterol" and/or "is a vegetable fat." Most participants regarded lard and fat in meats as the only fat sources existing in the diet.

And yet another study that doesn't actually support your conclusion, which is even more clear in a more recent study (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A//www.jsri.msu.edu/RandS/research/irr/rr23.pdf&ei=F5ATQ4vDJr-IiAKmivj7Dg) by the same authors. I wonder why you didn't post that one. From the conclusion:
Self-reported obesity and diabetes was high
among immigrants and even higher among Mexican-
Americans. These data are consistent with findings by
other researchers who have utilized clinical assessment
of the health conditions among Latinos of Mexican
descent. Our data suggest that many of the dietary
changes may have a negative impact on the health of
the groups studied.
How does this support your conclusion that it's the traditional Mexican diet that's the problem? It's the diet that the second generation picks up that causes higher obesity and diabetes.
The surveys of Mexicans and immigrants in the US say they consistently use animal fats to cook with. Lard is a cause of obesity and diabetes, and so is frying in oils unless they are low fat ones.
Too bad for you that your own data shows the ones cooking with lard are healthier, less obese and have less diabetes. And I'm still waiting for your sources on the poisonous Mexican imports and the drain on the taxes.

[stup_id]

As I mentioned before, the problem is much more complex than the name you give to kind of food you prepare.

The "mexican food" eaten in South US is very different of what the big percent of Mexican people eats everyday. However, Mexicans do have (including me) very poor dietetic habits, but it is no particular of the culture the way I see it, I think it is a very special position that Latin America is, where eating fatty, unhealthy food is cheaper and accesible to lower income families.

It would be interesting find the relation of diabetes with the familiar income in US, compared to Mexico, and why not Canada, to stablish if truly the food is the main difference.

Any healthy "traditional" diet can be transformed in a source of junk food, for instance we have the Italian food, which traditionally is very healthy (I've been in italy a few times, I have many friends over there and also most of them are involved in public health issues), but when changed to the american fashion (and by america I mean the WHOLE continent not just US), it became fatty and high caloric... and we could keep on, Spanish food is the same case.. etc etc.

I don't think Mexican food is particularly more damaging than others (in fact as I've said before ORIGINAL mexican food contained hardly any animal fat source), I think is the precaire economic condition of the country which leads to bad dietetic habits. Also I think is becase of the vecinity Mexico has with US that is easy to be biased in the dietetic "traditions" that are imported to United States.

[jay gw]

I claimed you were wrong on your claim that the Mexican diet was causing diabetes, and posted two different cources to back me up.

Hmmm

The first link you made was to the incidence of diabetes in several countries, which has nothing to do with information about diets, and the second one you posted just repeated what I already said, that the principal cause of death among Mexican adults is diabetes. Just like it is in the United States among that group, in the top 3 causes of death. Those links are supporting my statements or have nothing to do with the thread.

You need to find DIETARY information, not lists of countries!!

You have never shown anything to disprove the idea that what is causing Hispanics bad health is their diets. If you're convinced that diet is irrelevant then it should be very easy to show it! Why can't you just show it?

[crimresearch]

"You need to find DIETARY information, not lists of countries!!

You have never shown anything to disprove the idea that what is causing Hispanics bad health is their diets. If you're convinced that diet is irrelevant then it should be very easy to show it! Why can't you just show it?'

You are the one basing your OP on the extraordinary assumption that the Hispanic population suffering from diabetes consumes that one particular subset of the stereotypical Mexican diet.

And you have failed to back up that extraordinary assumption with any facts...choosing instead to tapdance around definitions and labels.

[Donks]

Originally posted by jay gw
Hmmm

The first link you made was to the incidence of diabetes in several countries, which has nothing to do with information about diets, and the second one you posted just repeated what I already said, that the principal cause of death among Mexican adults is diabetes. Just like it is in the United States among that group, in the top 3 causes of death. Those links are supporting my statements or have nothing to do with the thread.

You need to find DIETARY information, not lists of countries!!

You have never shown anything to disprove the idea that what is causing Hispanics bad health is their diets. If you're convinced that diet is irrelevant then it should be very easy to show it! Why can't you just show it?
Your original statement:
Originally posted by jay gw
Take a look at this Mexican food:
{tasty, tasty image}
Three meals a day there are always tortillas and beans. Burritos, tacos and enchiladas - all carbohydrates.

Sometimes there's meat, sometimes not - more often there is. The food is very salty, and Mexicans do not use anything but animal fats to cook with there are no olive or other oils used very often.

Is there some kind of "cultural sensitivity" thing going on that no one will point out the fact that food that's all carbohydrates, animal fats/lard and salt is causing epidemics of health problems in Hispanics??
In case you didn't notice, you stated that an epidemic of health problems is caused by Mexican food. To support this you used two studies regarding diabetics in hispanics and one regarding childhood obesity among hispanics. Among other claims you have made in this thread you stated that:
Originally posted by jay gw What's the common theme among millions of people in a country? DIETARY STANDARDS are a common theme.
My evidence showed that the diabetes prevalence in Mexico, where according to you everyone eats Mexican food such as the one pictured in the OP, was about the same as that of the white non-hispanics in the US, and much lower than that of Mexican-Americans. Then you provided evidence that the health problems are not among the Mexican immigrants, but among the second and third generations, who are replacing traditional Mexican dishes with US food.
Among the both of us we have now provided evidence that your original premise is wrong. Thank you very much.
Now you are now asking me to prove a negative. I'll do that just 15 minutes after hell freezes over, or after you take a logics class, whichever happens first. And you still have not provided evidence for your other claims, which include the poisonous Mexican exports going into the US.

[Lisa Simpson]

As far as lead in food imported from Mexico to the US, I do know there is a problem with lead in candy imported here. The only reason I know that is my hometown newspaper did a report on the subject.

http://www.ocregister.com/investigations/2004/lead/index.shtml

[Luciana]

Originally posted by jay gw
I live on the border of the US/Mexico which is why I bring this up.

You should move. Really. This place is not making you any good. You tend to see everything as race-related, so a) you start travelling now, marry a pretty Jamaican lady and get this over with or b) move to a all-white community, that would shelter you forever and you could stop worrying.

It's constantly on the front page but never seems to get through to the population that their diets are really bad.

The last figure I saw showed that ALL states in America had their rates of obesity increased by 0% to 3. ALL states, hear me? So it's only the predominantly Hispanic population in your neighborhood that isn't listening?

Most traditional Mexican cooking uses lard/animal fats and breads and salt. It's never changed even though science warns people to stay away from it. The restaurants do not cook with anything but lard and use alot of salt in everything and so do cooks at home. Every time I have out of towners and take them to restaurants they comment on how greasy and salty the food is.

"Traditional Mexican cooking", well, that has been debunked by Mexicans here. Speaking for myself, when I visited Mexico, I ate very well, lots of non-greasy food. Having travelled extensively through the US, I can tell you that I saw much more fat in the general American diet (general because I have visited 14 states) than that in Mexico. Eggs and bacon for breakfast? Please.

There has never been a Hispanic "healthy living revolution" public awareness program and the public health system is going broke because so many of the children are really fat and unhealthy.

Where, in their countries? In the US? Any evidence for this assertion? Was there ever a (white, if you will) American "healthy living revolution", if obesity rates are increasing throughout the country?

Americans are exposed to messages about healthy diets all the time but the Hispanic world in Latin America is not. They don't really have the schools and money to educate anyone. They all still use the same ingredients and prepare food the same way they always have.

Even with the education Americans are still very obese, more than most people in the world.

Hello? First of all, what is "Hispanic world in Latin America"? I'd be delighted to hear it. Does that exclude blacks?

Your conclusion is that Americans are very obese, more than most people in the world, and Hispanics are also obese, but because they don't have schools? And Americans are obese... why?

Jay gw, I don't expect you to answer me. You have never had, as far as I recall. You don't do well with logics and facts, do you?

Another user asked if you have ever visited Latin America. Have you? You failed to answer that.

I wish you would come (but please don't contact me). You'd see that "Latin America" is an extremely varied human scenario. You'd see rich and industrialized regions. You'd see racial diversity, with segregation in some places and integration in others. You'd find many schools, you see. You'd even see statistics institutes which follow rigorous scientific standards and have proper funding and do influence government policies with the data they provide. Saying that in Latin American there is not even resources for running statistics show a very gross ignorance of the continent. You are probably confusing the region with sub-saharian Africa.

[Luciana]

Evasion noted, jay gw.

[Z]

The highest obesity rates are among Blacks, who if you know anything about their diets, have HORRIBLE diets high in fats like lard and no fruits or vitamins much.

Welcome to ignore, you ignorant racist.

If you know anything about the diet of blacks, you'd know that they vary as much as any other racial grouping by region or culture. Many blacks are on no-fat and low-fat diets. Fruit is a very common part of many black diets - ever heard some of those horrible racist jokes about blacks and watermelons? And much of the traditional cuisine of many of the black cultures are wonderfully loaded with healthy vegetables and seafoods and low in fatty meats and carbohydrates.

Once again, Jay is guilty of racial stereotyping and broad over-generalization. It's pretty much the only sort of thinking he's capable of. But this comment is simply racist - and I cannot tolerate racists.

Bye, Jay.

[Luciana]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
Welcome to ignore, you ignorant racist.

zaayrdragon,

jay gw might be insulted with the "ignorant" part, but calling him racist won't offend him. I believe he is quite proud of that, even though he won't come out and say it.

However, judging by the recurrent posts on race, always criticizing non-whites here and there, I can only believe he wants to "enlighten" us on the basis of racism but never really bare his face to the criticism it entails. I believe his goal is to attach every possible negative qualities to non-whites so that, in the long-term, we get to agree with him.

One problem in this theory is that most of us has understood his tactics at this point. Even more damning, he is into the habit of running from debate and leaving questions unanswered. He doesn't want to be confronted with facts that might challenge his racism.

That I recall, only once he replied to me, and that was to support his race-based worldview. I replied back with my knowledge of history and then he disappeared.

I don't know why jay gw chooses to ignore me. I could put forth a few theories, but I don't want to speculate.