PDA

View Full Version : More Catholics behaving... well, you know


Yahzi
17th April 2003, 11:44 AM
http://www.guardian.co.uk/religion/Story/0,2763,934110,00.html


Sleep was routinely interrupted by their constant checks for children wetting their beds and the beating that followed. One bed-wetter was held out of the window by her ankles as punishment. "You woke up to this thrashing. Nuns with leather straps hanging from their waist beside their rosary beads. The strap was socially acceptable. The excuse is that it was normal in those days."


Mealtimes, predictably, were the occasion of routine power struggles between nuns and children. Cusiter says she was force-fed: "She'd be pulling your head back, then she'd hold your nose so you couldn't breathe, until your mouth opened, and she'd shove food in. Then you'd choke and the food would end up on your plate again and she would force-feed you your own vomit. That started from the moment I went in there."


None the less, there have been scandals and debates within the church about the ill-treatment of children for decades. Eoin O'Sullivan, the Irish historian of Catholic orphanages and schools, cites a very public challenge to the church by Father Flanagan, the priest whose humane childcare was the model for Spencer Tracy in the film, Men Of Boys Town. This embarrassed both church and state in the 1940s. "Violence was an intrinsic part of the culture of these institutions," O'Sullivan says; they were committed to the "destruction of will". He has unearthed state archives revealing many complaints about cruelty and inspectors' concerns about "dangerous and undesirable punishment". Violent discipline, he says, was not uncontested.

Not uncontested, just not stopped. The Catholic Church had Catholic priests telling it what was going on and why it was wrong; it just didn't care as an instituition.

But no doubt somebody will respond to this by asking how religion harms me.

:mad:


EDIT: Doh, fixed the link.

tamiO
17th April 2003, 12:02 PM
Do you remember when this happened?
The link didn't lead to the story for me.

jimlintott
17th April 2003, 12:26 PM
Isn't bed wetting often listed as a symptom of child abuse? Poor kids.

Yahzi
17th April 2003, 12:42 PM
I fixed the link, Tami.

But to answer your question: the people reporting the abuse are 50 and up, so this was all a number of years ago.

c4ts
17th April 2003, 04:20 PM
What was it, though, that caused such cruelty by women? Sister Margaret McCurtain, a glinting Dominican scholar and one of Ireland's best-known Catholic reformers, suggests the "sexual oppression of nuns could emerge later in the form of cruelty". She also comments that the very notion of charity was "a virtue that never brought with it affectivity." Feminist scholar Ailbhe Smyth adds, "Christianity tells us that we have to help the poor, but we don't have to like them. It is a Christian duty, for your greater glory, not theirs. There is, in this context, an absence of any recognition that tenderness should be the norm in relations between adults and children."

Why does that not surprise me.

GrapeJ713
17th April 2003, 11:56 PM
Lord Acton again and again all over the place. Small minded self loathing believers get power through thier religion and inflict pain on those less powerful than them to make themselves feel superior.
My experience has been that believers aren't happy unless they are making other people miserable. I think they don't trust themselves and other 'good' people not to do drink, smoke do drugs, visit prostitutes, and any other number of victimless crimes. So they either get the activity outlawed or heavily regulated.

c4ts
18th April 2003, 08:44 AM
Originally posted by GrapeJ713
Lord Acton again and again all over the place. Small minded self loathing believers get power through thier religion and inflict pain on those less powerful than them to make themselves feel superior.
My experience has been that believers aren't happy unless they are making other people miserable. I think they don't trust themselves and other 'good' people not to do drink, smoke do drugs, visit prostitutes, and any other number of victimless crimes. So they either get the activity outlawed or heavily regulated.

I think the flaws may have to do with the idea that morality and virtue are the status quo of God. They will follow the rules to the degree by which they see fit to serve themselves and earn their carrot on a stick as long as they think God is on their side.

thatguywhojuggles
19th April 2003, 06:21 AM
This article may have been posted before, but here it goes, again.

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/DailyNews/Ireland_abuse030126.html

Yahzi
19th April 2003, 09:08 AM
Notice these stories aren't set in America?