Are all Americans Weasels?

[Thanz]

Or just the ones in Government?

This seems to have gotten no attention here, and probably no attention from the US media, but the US Gov't are pulling a huge weasel on their NAFTA committments in the softwood lumber dispute.

I know, many of you are probably thinking "What softwood lumber dispute?" Well, the US and Canada are in a fight over softwood, with the US slapping huge duties on Canadian softwood, contrary to NAFTA. The dispute process under NAFTA has run its course, with the panel finding in Canada's favour. You might like to believe that the USA would respect the rule of law and abide by the ruling, but they are blatantly disobeying it. What a bunch of weasels. Agree on a dispute resolution process, then when you don't like the result, you ignore it. Why have the process then? The US also lost a WTO hearing on the matter.

Here is a primer on the dispute: http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/softwood_lumber/

And here is the latest news: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20050829.wxtrade29/BNStory/National/

[Magyar]

This is typical US Corp. ethics - heads we win tails you lose.
Ditto for moral issues, especially from the republican side followed close second by the dems.

What's new? Why are you suprised?

[Manny]

Meh. The administration is wrong on this one, just as they were on the steel tariffs, but I don't see them doing anything outside the rules of NAFTA/WTO. Indeed, at least on this issue the government has a point (and has won a round or two along the way), as opposed to the case of steel which was a non-starter right from the beginning. The agreements were set up with onerous and time consuming appeals processes and the US is taking advantage of them. Same thing Canada did on the dairy dispute a few years back.





Full disclosure: I have a monetary interest in the US eventually losing on this issue or settling in favor of the Canadian lumber companies.

[mr rosewater]

I wonder why they would continue to sell it to the US at all. Why not sell it to another market, like maybe Cuba.

[Mark]

I have no personal opinion on the dispute, but I am aware of it (despite the usual tired Canadian claim that Americans don't know what's going on up there). The argument on the U.S. side is that the Canadian government is unfairly subsidizing their timber industry.

[gkat]

Americans in general are not weasels. We are more like deer, hypnotized by bright lights.

Unfortunately our "representational" government is slowly turning into an excuse to dissavow any responsibility for anything.

[Cain]

I kind of resent the title of the parent post. Most Americans do not even know how to spell "NAFTA" (or WTO, for that matter), so we really shouldn't be called "weasels" over our government's hypocritical policies.

No country on earth believes in free trade, especially the ones that are already rich and developed. Fact. The U.S. can get away with more than Japan, France, Germany, the UK, and little Canada, because we're the big, swinging dick. Those who don't like it will be cock-slapped.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by Cain
I kind of resent the title of the parent post. Most Americans do not even know how to spell "NAFTA" (or WTO, for that matter), so we really shouldn't be called "weasels" over our government's hypocritical policies.

No country on earth believes in free trade, especially the ones that are already rich and developed. Fact. The U.S. can get away with more than Japan, France, Germany, the UK, and little Canada, because we're the big, swinging dick. Those who don't like it will be cock-slapped.

Um...don't you mean "Florida-slapped"?? ;)

-z

[Jocko]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Um...don't you mean "Florida-slapped"?? ;)

-z

No, Florida is the *********, not the dick. Trust me on this one.

Besides, I think Texas would be happy with that particular anthropomorphisaztion.

BTW, Cain... your description is right on. If only Canada had that sort of clarity... ;)

[RandFan]

We should absolutely abide by the rules. And we should end our idiotic sugar protection.

I'm with ya on this one thanz.

[Thanz]

Originally posted by manny
Meh. The administration is wrong on this one, just as they were on the steel tariffs, but I don't see them doing anything outside the rules of NAFTA/WTO. Indeed, at least on this issue the government has a point (and has won a round or two along the way), as opposed to the case of steel which was a non-starter right from the beginning. The agreements were set up with onerous and time consuming appeals processes and the US is taking advantage of them. Same thing Canada did on the dairy dispute a few years back.
Maybe you don't see it as outside the NAFTA or WTO, but those in charge of deciding those disputes disagree. The USA is outside of those rules, they've been told so repeatedly. The weaselness comes in when they refuse to abide by that result.

Further, the appeal process has come to an end. I have no problem with either side pressing their case to the fullest - but when that is over, you should honour the agreement to be bound by the result.

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Cain
I kind of resent the title of the parent post. As well you should. But it accomplished its goal - you clicked and read the post. Somehow I didn't think a bland title like "Softwood Lumber Dispute" would be as catchy. Most Americans do not even know how to spell "NAFTA" (or WTO, for that matter), so we really shouldn't be called "weasels" over our government's hypocritical policies. That's probably more offensive than my title - at least I directed my ire at the US gov't, you've called most americans idiots.
No country on earth believes in free trade, especially the ones that are already rich and developed. Fact. The U.S. can get away with more than Japan, France, Germany, the UK, and little Canada, because we're the big, swinging dick. Those who don't like it will be cock-slapped. Uh, colourfully said. USA big bully. Canada gets lunch money taken. Everyone else too afraid to do anything about it, lest bully take their lunch money too.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Thanz
As well you should. But it accomplished its goal - you clicked and read the post. Somehow I didn't think a bland title like "Softwood Lumber Dispute" would be as catchy. [B] That's probably more offensive than my title - at least I directed my ire at the US gov't, you've called most americans idiots.
[B] Uh, colourfully said. USA big bully. Canada gets lunch money taken. Everyone else too afraid to do anything about it, lest bully take their lunch money too.

What is your response to the Canadian government subsidizing their timber industry and artificially holding prices down?

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Mark
I have no personal opinion on the dispute, but I am aware of it (despite the usual tired Canadian claim that Americans don't know what's going on up there). The argument on the U.S. side is that the Canadian government is unfairly subsidizing their timber industry.

Who are you and what have you done with Mark.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Grammatron
Who are you and what have you done with Mark.

:th:

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Mark
What is your response to the Canadian government subsidizing their timber industry and artificially holding prices down? My response? Well, according to the NAFTA panel and the WTO, to the extent that they are subsidizing timber or artificially holding prices down, they are doing so within the rules.

I don't have all of the background necessary to go into each sides position. This thread is not really about that anyway - it is about the USA's decision to completely ignore the ruling of a body that went against it, solely because it went against the USA. You can be sure that if the Americans had one, they'd be beating Canada over the head with it.

[Manny]

Originally posted by Thanz
I don't have all of the background necessary to go into each sides position. This thread is not really about that anyway - it is about the USA's decision to completely ignore the ruling of a body that went against it, solely because it went against the USA. Oh, I get it now.

OK, the problem here is that you are factually incorrect. We have an open appeal before the WTO right now. The ruling by the ECC was on the old, 2002 ITC decision, not the one in 2004 which superceded it. The United States is not ignoring a final, unappeal-able decision as no such thing has yet been generated.

[Mark]

Originally posted by Thanz
My response? Well, according to the NAFTA panel and the WTO, to the extent that they are subsidizing timber or artificially holding prices down, they are doing so within the rules.

I don't have all of the background necessary to go into each sides position. This thread is not really about that anyway - it is about the USA's decision to completely ignore the ruling of a body that went against it, solely because it went against the USA. You can be sure that if the Americans had one, they'd be beating Canada over the head with it.

I can? Why? If you mean because of the current administration's willingness to scrap international treaties, then I can understand your concern. If you mean some underlying anti-Canada bias, then I think you need a LOT more evidence.

I am not being a wise-ass. I don't know that much about this issue.

[American]

Originally posted by Magyar
This is typical US Corp. ethics - heads we win tails you lose.
Ditto for moral issues, especially from the republican side followed close second by the dems.

What's new? Why are you suprised?

Your dumb country gets ~ 1/4 billion dollars a year in aid from Official Development Assistance programs and the Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development.

What have you given in return?

[Jesus]

To answer the original question: of course not.

I have come to believe that our politicians are completely devoid of belief in anything, regardless of the stances they may take. Figure out whatever panders to the masses the best, then adopt it as policy.