So will the world respond?

[stamenflicker]

I'm pretty sure Katrina won't rank up there with the Tsunami destruction from last year as far as loss of life... at least I hope it won't. But will their be a world response? When is one merited?

Flick

[Cleon]

Well, various politicos and pundits are already calling it "our tsunami." As if this compares to over 100,000 people dead.

There probably won't be a world competition to help, but then, the US is much more economically healthy than Indonesia and Sri Lanka.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
I'm pretty sure Katrina won't rank up there with the Tsunami destruction from last year as far as loss of life... at least I hope it won't. But will their be a world response? When is one merited?

Flick

I am sure if US requested aid the world would respond, however I doubt we would be doing so.

I wonder if they would put on concerts to benefit the victims, though.

[CFLarsen]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
I'm pretty sure Katrina won't rank up there with the Tsunami destruction from last year as far as loss of life... at least I hope it won't. But will their be a world response? When is one merited?

Do you think there should be a world response?

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
I'm pretty sure Katrina won't rank up there with the Tsunami destruction from last year as far as loss of life... at least I hope it won't. But will their be a world response? When is one merited?

Flick When the country in question can't handle the situation itself.

[corplinx]

The reason the world responded to the tsunami is because the countries affected didn't have resources, plans, agencies, and infrastructure to handle the crisis.

The US has all that.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Grammatron
I am sure if US requested aid the world would respond, however I doubt we would be doing so.

I wonder if they would put on concerts to benefit the victims, though.

What, can't you see Alla Pugachova and tAtu singing "We are the World" to benefit the hurricane victims? :D




(On second thought, I guess it would be Мы Мир, but hey.)

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Cleon
What, can't you see Alla Pugachova and tAtu singing "We are the World" to benefit the hurricane victims? :D

Pugachova no, tAtu yes, 'cause you know 'n stuff.

(On second thought, I guess it would be Мы Мир, but hey.)

Close but your grammar is off :p

[BPSCG]

Well, we're going to be getting the remnants of Katrina here in the next few hours. I don't expect to need any assistance rebuilding my house or pumping the mud out of my basement. But I'll probably get wet walking home tonight. It would certainly be a nice gesture if the French would send me a few dozen cases of Crozes-Hermitage and Saint-Verain.

A couple of kilos of Roquefort would be nice, too.

Flo, can you help us out here? As a famous New Orleans resident once said, "I've always depended on the kindness of strangers."

[Manny]

I guess it wouldn't surprise me if some Imam claimed credit for it on account of praying so hard.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Grammatron

Pugachova no, tAtu yes, 'cause you know 'n stuff.[/b]

Any excuse for a public snogging. :D


Close but your grammar is off :p

Meh? "Мир" is nominative case, no?

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by Cleon
Any excuse for a public snogging. :D

It's for the benifit!


Meh? "Мир" is nominative case, no?

Technically yes, but the meaning is lost, it would have to be paraphrased, or apply some context to it.

[Cleon]

Originally posted by Grammatron


Technically yes, but the meaning is lost, it would have to be paraphrased, or apply some context to it.

Meh. It's a stupid name for a song, anyway. :D

[punchdrunk]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Flo, can you help us out here? As a famous New Orleans resident once said, "I've always depended on the kindness of strangers."

I didn't know Terry Schiavo was from Louisiana....

My brother lives in southern Mississippi, but on the west side, away from the coast. Still, I haven't heard from him, and the website for the paper he works for is down. Don't know if we need Bangladesh to step in at this point, but I guess if nothing else donations to the Red Cross are always helpful and needed.

[nelsondogg]

Venezuela offers fuel, food to hurricane-hit US (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050829/wl_afp/usweathervenezuelaoil_050829235602)

Good thing we didn't assassinate Chavez.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by nelsondogg
Venezuela offers fuel, food to hurricane-hit US (http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050829/wl_afp/usweathervenezuelaoil_050829235602)

Good thing we didn't assassinate Chavez.

Hmm
Last week, Chavez offered discount gasoline to poor Americans suffering from high oil prices and on Sunday offered free eye surgery for Americans without access to health care.

Oh please someone take him up on it! Pleeeeeeeeease.

[CapelDodger]

Perhaps the best thing people can do is visit. I was so glad that old New Orleans seems to have survived ... to be eaten by termites. This is a wake-up call to people that have always meant to go to New Orleans one day but haven't got around to it. Tourism is way better than charity.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by Grammatron
Oh please someone take him up on it! Pleeeeeeeeease. Be careful what you wish for.

[Grammatron]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
Be careful what you wish for.

He can try and buy all the support he can, it'll just cost him an arm and a leg. Not that he cares, not like it's his money.

[BPSCG]

I think we have our answer. (http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=23224&name=US+pollution+partly+to+blame+for+Katrina%3A+G erman+minister)

Maybe we can pay for the cost of rebuilding the Gulf Coast with the money we save from closing all our army bases in Germany. I know this will come as a blow to those who have been sucking at the gigantic teat of the American military presence there, but I'm sure they'll understand.

[Hutch]

Originally posted by manny
I guess it wouldn't surprise me if some Imam claimed credit for it on account of praying so hard.

...Unless Pat Robertson beats him too it...

Originally posted by BPSCG
.....As a famous New Orleans resident once said, "I've always depended on the kindness of strangers."

Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't that Atlanta and fire, not New Orleans and water? Although based on the pictures it does look like William Tecumseh Sherman and the Bummers were reserrected for another march....

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Hutch
...Unless Pat Robertson beats him too it...



Maybe I'm wrong, but wasn't that Atlanta and fire, not New Orleans and water? Although based on the pictures it does look like William Tecumseh Sherman and the Bummers were reserrected for another march.... You're thinking of this lady:
http://kepitech.com/gwtw/gviv1.jpg

But I was thinking of this one:
http://tesla.liketelevision.com/liketelevision/images/lowrez/tdie0320.jpg

Whoops - same lady.

[Manny]

Originally posted by Hutch
...Unless Pat Robertson beats him too it...
Actually, it turns out that the hurricane-related *sshole of the year award goes to...

Bobby Kennedy Jr! He came out of his woo-induced plan to mass-murder poor children by denying them immunizations long enough to blame the last-minute zig eastward of the hurricane on Mississippi governor Haley Barbour. Well, on God, with an assist to Gov. Barbour. (cite) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050829/cm_huffpost/006396)

Man, when the New York Times editorial page of all places is correcting your science, you know you're in the woo zone.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by manny
Actually, it turns out that the hurricane-related *sshole of the year award goes to...

Bobby Kennedy Jr! He came out of his woo-induced plan to mass-murder poor children by denying them immunizations long enough to blame the last-minute zig eastward of the hurricane on Mississippi governor Haley Barbour. Well, on God, with an assist to Gov. Barbour. (cite) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050829/cm_huffpost/006396)
Sorry, but it seems pretty clear to me that the last paragraph is sarcastic.

[Flo]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Well, we're going to be getting the remnants of Katrina here in the next few hours. I don't expect to need any assistance rebuilding my house or pumping the mud out of my basement. But I'll probably get wet walking home tonight. It would certainly be a nice gesture if the French would send me a few dozen cases of Crozes-Hermitage and Saint-Verain.

A couple of kilos of Roquefort would be nice, too.

Flo, can you help us out here? As a famous New Orleans resident once said, "I've always depended on the kindness of strangers."


Sorry, but we've had our own floods too, and the labels for the Crozes-Hermitage got mixed with those for the Chateau-Migraine ... ;)

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Flo
Sorry, but we've had our own floods too, and the labels for the Crozes-Hermitage got mixed with those for the Chateau-Migraine ... ;) Dommage...
Could you just send the Roquefort, then, s'il vous plait?

[Manny]

Originally posted by Kerberos
Sorry, but it seems pretty clear to me that the last paragraph is sarcastic. Well, let's check the evidence.

He blamed Bush for the failure of a treaty which the Senate signalled unanimously that it would reject. He blamed increased hurricane frequency on greenhouse gasses when there's an extremely well-established cyclical pattern which overcomes by a wide margin any predicted change to hurricane patterns from greenhouse effects. The author of the article in Nature which Kennedy said "linked the increasing prevalence of destructive hurricanes to human-induced global warming" in fact said, "what we see in the Atlantic is mostly the natural swing."

Unless the entire article is satire, what is your evidence that the last paragraph is somehow different from the rest of the garbage he put out? Is Kennedy not a Christian? Is there some evidence that his belief about the propensity of God to intervene in earthly affairs is different from the belief of Pat Robertson?

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by stamenflicker
I'm pretty sure Katrina won't rank up there with the Tsunami destruction from last year as far as loss of life... at least I hope it won't. But will their be a world response? When is one merited?

Flick

I predict little to no world response, there are various reasons;
The USA is so rich it can fend for itself.
The USA is to blame for the storm due to Bush's stance on Kyoto.
Allah is punishing the USA.
Jesus is punishing the USA.
The intergalacticspaghettimonster is punishing the USA.
"Plenty of UN help would appear overnight if the stubborn US authorities would just place those "UN" stickers on the trucks, aircraft, and helicopters working the area." -Kofi Annan


I guess we're gonna have to fend for ourselves. Good thing that we're pretty good at it.

Last year two different hurricanes damaged my mom's house in Melbourne, FL. The silver lining is that people tend to bond during times like these and they will be helping each other alot. My mom told me a about the Amish. Turns out a group of Amish workers came down from Pennsylvania to help rebuild homes in Melbourne. These guys do extremely high quality work at reasonable rates, and the coolest thing; they work well without need of electricity! :)

Once the flood waters are gone and the looting has stopped the next bad thing that the people in the damage area are going to have to watch out for is crooked contractors. Not all the out of state help will be honest like the Amish.

-z

[PopeTom]

Originally posted by BPSCG
I think we have our answer. (http://www.expatica.com/source/site_article.asp?subchannel_id=52&story_id=23224&name=US+pollution+partly+to+blame+for+Katrina%3A+G erman+minister)



Clearly the environmental minister of Germany must be correct, I mean when was the last time Germany was devastated by a hurricane? Clearly their cutting of greenhouse gasses is doing them wonders.

:D

-PT

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by PopeTom
Clearly the environmental minister of Germany must be correct, I mean when was the last time Germany was devastated by a hurricane? Clearly their cutting of greenhouse gasses is doing them wonders.

:D

-PT

Oh come on, the guy is desperately grasping at straws. After all, its election time again and the coalition of the social democrats and the greens will almost certainly be replaced by a coalition of the christian democrats and the liberals after september 18th. And no good will his cheap attempt of "told you so" and stirring of anti US sentiments do him. Katrina and its horrible aftermath gets a lot of prime TV coverage over here but gloating you see not. After all, south Germany (as well as Ausria and Switzerland) had their own small flood catastrophy just two weeks ago. By far not as disastrous as in the US but still.

Zee

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by manny
Well, let's check the evidence.

He blamed Bush for the failure of a treaty which the Senate signalled unanimously that it would reject. He blamed increased hurricane frequency on greenhouse gasses when there's an extremely well-established cyclical pattern which overcomes by a wide margin any predicted change to hurricane patterns from greenhouse effects. The author of the article in Nature which Kennedy said "linked the increasing prevalence of destructive hurricanes to human-induced global warming" in fact said, "what we see in the Atlantic is mostly the natural swing."

Unless the entire article is satire, what is your evidence that the last paragraph is somehow different from the rest of the garbage he put out? Is Kennedy not a Christian? Is there some evidence that his belief about the propensity of God to intervene in earthly affairs is different from the belief of Pat Robertson?
There's all the difference in the world, Kennedy might be a woo-woo of the worst sort, I know very little about him, but this is the wrong kind of woo from that end of the political spectrum. It's the kind of nonsense you'd expect from the religious right, not from left religious or not. Just to be sure I did a short search and found this article (http://www.thenation.com/doc/20040308/kennedy) by him. It doesn't address god's stance on redirecting hurricanes directly, but it's clearly against religiously-based "science".
Besides the souce he quotes for the "god directs hurricanes claim" is "Republican icon Pat Robertson". Do you really thinks he used most of the article to bash republicans just to point out in the end that the person from whom he just drew these pearls of wisdom from a "republican icon". It wouldn't really fit with the trend of the article would it?

[Neutiquam Erro]

Political axe-grinding aside, I was wondering what resources could be brought in from other countries to aid the situation in LA/MS? Pumps and levee-building technology from The Netherlands? Cruise ships for housing evacuees from (wherever the Hell those things come from)?

[Manny]

Ah, so the particular woo is different from what you expect, so it's "clear" that it was sarcasm. That's a good skeptic.

What's wrong with the hypothesis that Kennedy agrees with Robertson about God's powers but believes that the Big Guy has different politics? I'm open to the possibility that it was sarcasm, or at least more sarcastic than Robertson's remarks on the same subject, but given the other crap in the article I think asking for evidence is justified, don't you? Perhaps there's something in Catholic theology which is different from Robertson's theology about God's interventions in the natural world. I dunno. (And I realize that I'm assuming that Kennedy is still a Catholic -- I'm pretty safe there, I think, but I'm certainly ready to be corrected on that too if it turns out to be incorrect.)

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
Perhaps the best thing people can do is visit. I was so glad that old New Orleans seems to have survived ... to be eaten by termites. This is a wake-up call to people that have always meant to go to New Orleans one day but haven't got around to it. Tourism is way better than charity. I guess you could say it survived..

Maybe they can get a ' gondola ' thing going, to replace the horse drawn carriages, or tour boats, like the River Walk in San Antonio TX...

Looks like the tourism has already picked up..

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/police-stand-by-as-looters-clean-up/2005/08/31/1125302629394.html




http://www.theage.com.au/ffximage/2005/08/31/looters_wideweb__430x274.jpg

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by manny
Ah, so the particular woo is different from what you expect, so it's "clear" that it was sarcasm. That's a good skeptic.
Yes it is, the more unusual something is the more evidence it requires. Simple logic, perhaps you should try it sometimes?

Originally posted by manny
What's wrong with the hypothesis that Kennedy agrees with Robertson about God's powers but believes that the Big Guy has different politics?
That it's blatantly inconsistent with what he wrote in the article I linked too.
Originally posted by manny
I'm open to the possibility that it was sarcasm, or at least more sarcastic than Robertson's remarks on the same subject, but given the other crap in the article I think asking for evidence is justified, don't you?
As I said it's the wrong kind of crap. Besides the sarcasm really is quite clear from the phrasing. "Perhaps it was..." is a very typical phrasing for sarcasm, but an untypical one for religious fanatics. Religious fanatics seldom say "I suspect", "I think" or "perhaps", fanatics know, particularly when it comes to religion.

Originally posted by manny
Perhaps there's something in Catholic theology which is different from Robertson's theology about God's interventions in the natural world. I dunno. (And I realize that I'm assuming that Kennedy is still a Catholic -- I'm pretty safe there, I think, but I'm certainly ready to be corrected on that too if it turns out to be incorrect.)
He is still Catholic , but if memory serves religious fanatism in the US is mainly a protestant thing.

[Magyar]

Originally posted by corplinx
The reason the world responded to the tsunami is because the countries affected didn't have resources, plans, agencies, and infrastructure to handle the crisis.

The US has all that.


Too bad it's all over in Iraq.

Seriously though, how has/will the e-aid for this area been affected because so many of the National guards troops are over in iraq?

I've been busy the last couple of days so I am jsut catching up on all the details, but couldn't the looting have been better controled if we had the National guard? Is the corp. of engineers ( I assume they would be in charge of the levies) over there as well?


Just asking.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by rikzilla
I predict little to no world response, there are various reasons;
The USA is so rich it can fend for itself.
The USA is to blame for the storm due to Bush's stance on Kyoto.
Allah is punishing the USA.
Jesus is punishing the USA.
The intergalacticspaghettimonster is punishing the USA.
"Plenty of UN help would appear overnight if the stubborn US authorities would just place those "UN" stickers on the trucks, aircraft, and helicopters working the area." -Kofi Annan

You forgot one: "the US isn't going to ask for help". I'm fairly sure that help would be sent if you asked for it, You wont though, largely because, as you say, you don't really need it.

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by Kerberos
You forgot one: "the US isn't going to ask for help". I'm fairly sure that help would be sent if you asked for it, You wont though, largely because, as you say, you don't really need it.

True enough.
Nevertheless, I - personally - would have preferred to read something like
"German chancellor offers to help and to provide whatever the US might need." in the headlines.

Instead this idiot Trittin has nothing better to do than to slap the American people right in the face with his silly allegations.

I feel really ashamed, guys, I really do. I voted for those pricks two years ago.

Luckily, they'll be gone in 18 days.

Sorry again you all and I'm sure you manage perfectly well without us.

Zee

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
True enough.
Nevertheless, I - personally - would have preferred to read something like
"German chancellor offers to help and to provide whatever the US might need." in the headlines.How about Ich bin ein New Orleanser?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by BPSCG
How about Ich bin ein New Orleanser? I am gumbo? Or would that be blackend cat fish?

[ZeeGerman]

Originally posted by BPSCG
How about Ich bin ein New Orleanser?

If you care for statements of pathos, why not?

You are right of course. Considering the effort the US went to support (west) Germany to prosper after the war and especially to keep West-Berlin free, the remarks and the lack of offered help are even more obnoxious.

Zee

[Manny]

Dude. Stop beating yourself up. Of course Germany offered to help (http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/press/releases/pr_08_31_05.htm). It's all good.

But that won't stop us from having fun with JFK's old linquistic gaffe. :) In keeping with Kennedy's pastry theme, the correct translation would be "I am a Beignet."

[Manny]

Oh, and the Chancellor offered sympathy, too (http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/press/releases/pr_08_30_05.htm).

It probably wouldn't kill the cause of international understanding if the MSM would actually report on some of this stuff, but on the other hand I understand that "Offers of Help Pour into World's Richest Nation" isn't exactly front-page material. But at least you now know that your government did exactly the right thing.

[luchog]

Originally posted by RandFan
I am gumbo? Or would that be blackend cat fish?

"I am a jelly donut" Urban Legend (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ich_bin_ein_Berliner)

[Manny]

And now, in fairness to the MSM, I have to report that USA Today did indeed report on international reaction (http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2005-08-31-katrina-world_x.htm). Of course the story mixed in official government reactions with every musing on a message board, but they did report it.

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
True enough.
Nevertheless, I - personally - would have preferred to read something like
"German chancellor offers to help and to provide whatever the US might need." in the headlines.

Instead this idiot Trittin has nothing better to do than to slap the American people right in the face with his silly allegations.

I feel really ashamed, guys, I really do. I voted for those pricks two years ago.

Luckily, they'll be gone in 18 days.

Sorry again you all and I'm sure you manage perfectly well without us.

Zee

This is why I like you Zee. You have class.
Reciprocation not necessary.

-z

[Beerina]

Ladies and Gentlemen. Our course is clear. We must study not just what happened prior to Katrina, but prior to Andrew, and Camille, and all the other major hurricanes.

Just what is it we were doing back in the '30's and '50's that was pissing off God?

What environmental bastardization rapes were we comitting back then?

This double whammy of death brought on us by both God and the environment due to our foolish actions must be analyzed and corrected!

We must begin burning offerings immediately. But that will piss off the environment god! But not burning them pisses off the real God. What to do? Oh my god, what to do?

[peptoabysmal]

Originally posted by manny
Actually, it turns out that the hurricane-related *sshole of the year award goes to...

Bobby Kennedy Jr! He came out of his woo-induced plan to mass-murder poor children by denying them immunizations long enough to blame the last-minute zig eastward of the hurricane on Mississippi governor Haley Barbour. Well, on God, with an assist to Gov. Barbour. (cite) (http://news.yahoo.com/s/huffpost/20050829/cm_huffpost/006396)

Man, when the New York Times editorial page of all places is correcting your science, you know you're in the woo zone.

Here's the original blog.
“For They That Sow the Wind Shall Reap the Whirlwind� (http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robert-f-kennedy-jr/afor-they-that-sow-the-_b_6396.html)
Also amusing are the posted comments about the article.

I just couldn't resist this cheap shot...
"They that drink the wine rape the waitress":
Michelle and Patrick drank wine and talked in the living room. According to Green, at one point Ted Kennedy walked into the room "without his trousers" and sporting only a long-tailed shirt, something that made Michelle Cassone feel extremely uncomfortable. She was quoted in the article saying that they went to sit outside on the sea wall, where the three talked about the ocean and "the importance of the family."

http://www.crimelibrary.com/notorious_murders/celebrity/william_kennedy/

[Orwell]

All joking aside, my heart goes out to the New Orleans people. I saw the pictures on the newspaper this morning, and it looked pretty awful.

Now, to be fair, it didn't look "Tsunami awful", nor did it look like Hiroshima (politicians, eh?!). But it did remind me of Bangladesh after severe flooding, and that's pretty damn bad.

Some people were talking about thousands of victims. Is this true?
There was ample warning time. Why so many dead?

[BPSCG]

Originally posted by Orwell
There was ample warning time. Why so many dead? Because people are stupid. As of this a.m., 3000 people had been rescued from their rooftops because a hurricane that had been brewing for two weeks, and of which they had been hearing nonstop warnings for the previous four days...CAUGHT THEM BY SURPRISE!!!

[Steve]

FWIW, at least one country has offered.

http://www.canada.com/national/features/extreme_weather/story.html?id=4f09b3a0-89dc-43d9-8f71-91f92d228d1d

[Skeptic]

20 countries did (http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050901/pl_nm/weather_katrina_aid_dc_9) according to latest report.

[Flo]

Originally posted by BPSCG
Because people are stupid. As of this a.m., 3000 people had been rescued from their rooftops because a hurricane that had been brewing for two weeks, and of which they had been hearing nonstop warnings for the previous four days...CAUGHT THEM BY SURPRISE!!!


Couldn't it also have to do with some of those people being too poor to own a car and having no other choice than to try to weather the storm out ?

Because you could escape early enough doesn't mean others are necessarily stupid. Many people all around the World have no real choice about where they have to live, have been misinformed about the risks, etc. (and yes, even in rich countries - even in wealthy Geneva, house owners nearly drowned last year due to the fact they hadn't been warned of the risk of flooding when they bought heir houses).

[rjh01]

Originally posted by Flo
Couldn't it also have to do with some of those people being too poor to own a car and having no other choice than to try to weather the storm out ?
The above quote says a lot. It says

1. The USA has many people who are too poor to own a car.
2. People who do own a car will not help others who do not own car.
3. No public transport away from the city.
4. No one to organise such public transport

Is this the world's richest country? Not in some ways.

[Flo]

Originally posted by rjh01
The above quote says a lot. It says

1. The USA has many people who are too poor to own a car.
2. People who do own a car will not help others who do not own car.
3. No public transport away from the city.
4. No one to organise such public transport

Is this the world's richest country? Not in some ways.


This judgement is too harsh on the USA. I'm sure you'll find other wealthy countries with exactly the same problems, e.g. not caring too much ahead for what's going to happen to the poorest segments of society, or whether they are correctly informed, with deficient public transport, and where the better-off will not share with others, etc.

[rjh01]

Originally posted by Flo
This judgement is too harsh on the USA. I'm sure you'll find other wealthy countries with exactly the same problems, e.g. not caring too much ahead for what's going to happen to the poorest segments of society, or whether they are correctly informed, with deficient public transport, and where the better-off will not share with others, etc.
Other people's behaviour is no excuse for your own. Remember the USA is the leader of the industrialised world, so shuoud be an example to the rest of the world.

It only gets worse. When did you see this in another disaster? Sniper fire halts hospital evacuation (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html)
The evacuation of patients from Charity Hospital was halted Thursday after the facility came under sniper fire twice.

[Flo]

Originally posted by rjh01
Other people's behaviour is no excuse for your own. Remember the USA is the leader of the industrialised world, so shuoud be an example to the rest of the world.

Just a note: I'm French, not American. Before blaming the US, I tend to remember that my country is and has been guilty of exactly the same things as the US (including pretending to be an example to the rest of the World). See my sig ...


It only gets worse. When did you see this in another disaster? Sniper fire halts hospital evacuation (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html)

It could unfortunately happen anywhere, anytime, in this kind of circonstances. As I read somewhere (Terry Pratchett, I thing), the collapse of civilized behaviour is only two hot meals away ...

[Manny]

Originally posted by manny
I guess it wouldn't surprise me if some Imam claimed credit for it on account of praying so hard. Randi should give me a million bucks. Allahdidit (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705).

[geni]

plently of countries have offered help

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina#International_response

[geni]

Originally posted by manny
Randi should give me a million bucks. Allahdidit (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705).

No he didn't

http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050831_thank-god-for-katrina.html

[armageddonman]

Originally posted by Grammatron
I am sure if US requested aid the world would respond, however I doubt we would be doing so.

I wonder if they would put on concerts to benefit the victims, though.

Until now, the only thing the US has asked the word for is....OIL.

Unbelievable!

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by manny

Randi should give me a million bucks. Allahdidit (http://memri.org/bin/latestnews.cgi?ID=SD97705).

Originally posted by geni
No he didn't

http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050831_thank-god-for-katrina.html
perhaps it was a joint venture, a shining example of corporation between different gods and proof that Christians and Muslims not only could, but should work together, for by doing so they can achieve great things.


























So, who wants to join my new cult?

[Manny]

Originally posted by Kerberos
So, who wants to join my new cult? Oooh, I dunno. I'm not sure I can get behind a movement which doesn't assign sufficient credit to Buddha. I mean, look at the facts. Buddha is customarily depicted as fat; New Orleans is known for fatty food. Buddha teaches that throwing away material wealth will lead to happiness; in New Orleans throwing beads causes women to show their boobs. Buddha was Asian; as noted in another thread Asians were largely spared Katrina's wrath. These can't be coincidences.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by manny
Oooh, I dunno. I'm not sure I can get behind a movement which doesn't assign sufficient credit to Buddha. I mean, look at the facts. Buddha is customarily depicted as fat; New Orleans is known for fatty food. Buddha teaches that throwing away material wealth will lead to happiness; in New Orleans throwing beads causes women to show their boobs. Buddha was Asian; as noted in another thread Asians were largely spared Katrina's wrath. These can't be coincidences.
Those are powerfull arguments, but I really need for some of them to take credit for Katrina or a natural disaster of similar magnitude before I can let them in. It wouldn't do to fill my cult with touchy feelly hipies who actually think people dying pointless deaths is a bad thing, now would it?

[Manny]

Excellent point -- I hadn't thought of that. OK, I think there's some radical Buddhists in Japan. We'll give them a couple days to put out a press release, else we'll go without the fat guy.

[Soapy Sam]

The IEA is releasing 2 million barrels of oil / day to prevent shortages in the U.S. The UK 's contribution is 73,000bpd for a month.

So we (paying $6.50 a gallon for gasoline) will be subsidising gasoline at half the price in the USA.

Fair enough, no loss what a friend gets. But I'm gonna bitch about it for quite some time. :p

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by Kerberos
So, who wants to join my new cult? What's your position on cats? Cats are evil too. When the gods punish the cats the people who tolerate and pander to them catch the fallout.

It's not gays, people, it's cats.

"The Gods, United, Will Never Be Defeated". Makes for a good chant.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
The IEA is releasing 2 million barrels of oil / day to prevent shortages in the U.S. The UK 's contribution is 73,000bpd for a month.

So we (paying $6.50 a gallon for gasoline) will be subsidising gasoline at half the price in the USA.

Fair enough, no loss what a friend gets. But I'm gonna bitch about it for quite some time. :p I think the problem's in the gasoline market, which as far as I know is a free market. US buyers have been outbidding European buyers in Rotterdam. Waddya gonna do? They're more dependent on gasoline than Europeans, who are more likely to have alternative transport.

Not wishing to appear heartless (which I'm not, honest), this is probably good news for London Transport.

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by Grammatron
I am sure if US requested aid the world would respond, however I doubt we would be doing so.

I wonder if they would put on concerts to benefit the victims, though.

There have been free jazz concerts in several cities in Norway today, in sympathy for the victims of New Orleans.

[Bjorn]

Not only jazz concerts:

The department listed donors so far as: Australia, Austria, the Bahamas, Belgium, Canada, China, Columbia, Cuba, Dominica, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, the European Union, France, Germany, Guatemala, Britain, Greece, Honduras, Hungary, Indonesia, Ireland, Israel, Italy, Jamaica, Japan, Lithuania, Mexico, NATO, the Netherlands, New Zealand, Norway, the Organization of American States, Paraguay, South Korea, Russia, Saudi Arabia, Singapore, Spain, Sri Lanka, Switzerland, Sweden, Venezuela and the United Nations High Commissioner for Refugees. Reuters today.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by rjh01
Other people's behaviour is no excuse for your own. Remember the USA is the leader of the industrialised world, so shuoud be an example to the rest of the world.

It only gets worse. When did you see this in another disaster? Sniper fire halts hospital evacuation (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/katrina.hospital.sniper/index.html)

And how exactly does one person with a rifle reflect on the other 300 million people living in the US? Do you consider this one person to be a statistically significant random sample of the US population? You can even extend it beyond that one sniper, if you like, and include everyone who has shot at someone in New Orleans over the past few days.

[rjh01]

Thank you Freakshow for that question. I think you will agree that there are many people with guns in the USA. It shows that the gun owners are not responsible people. Either they are doing the shooting or even worse the guns were stolen from them. The gun owners failed to properly secure both the guns and the ammunition against theft. If this happens in one city I cannot see why it could not happen in another in the USA.

The headline in our local paper today (The Canberra Times) is 'Death, decay as city festers. No relief for those in water-logged war zone.'

This is the sort of heading I would expect to see from a third world country not the first world country. Come to thhink of it they could only be talking about the USA. Only they would have a war zone in a disaster area, rather than a disaster in a war zone. Proof that USA society is inferier to some third world countries.

And my apologies to Flo.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by rjh01
Thank you Freakshow for that question. I think you will agree that there are many people with guns in the USA. It shows that the gun owners are not responsible people. Either they are doing the shooting or even worse the guns were stolen from them. The gun owners failed to properly secure both the guns and the ammunition against theft. If this happens in one city I cannot see why it could not happen in another in the USA.

The headline in our local paper today (The Canberra Times) is 'Death, decay as city festers. No relief for those in water-logged war zone.'

This is the sort of heading I would expect to see from a third world country not the first world country. Come to thhink of it they could only be talking about the USA. Only they would have a war zone in a disaster area, rather than a disaster in a war zone. Proof that USA society is inferier to some third world countries.

And my apologies to Flo.

You can thank me for the question, but you didn't answer it...

[rikzilla]

Originally posted by rjh01
Thank you Freakshow for that question. I think you will agree that there are many people with guns in the USA. It shows that the gun owners are not responsible people. Either they are doing the shooting or even worse the guns were stolen from them. The gun owners failed to properly secure both the guns and the ammunition against theft. If this happens in one city I cannot see why it could not happen in another in the USA.

The headline in our local paper today (The Canberra Times) is 'Death, decay as city festers. No relief for those in water-logged war zone.'

This is the sort of heading I would expect to see from a third world country not the first world country. Come to thhink of it they could only be talking about the USA. Only they would have a war zone in a disaster area, rather than a disaster in a war zone. Proof that USA society is inferier to some third world countries.

And my apologies to Flo.


The only proof I see is of your arrogant attitude and "inferier" spelling skills.

Please provide proof of your assertion. Name the 3rd world countries who are superior to the USA. Let's see if you can name one that doesn't enslave people, pray to a rock, have a special section of the police force which hunts down witches, or have a Dear Leader instead of a legislature. Go ahead we'll wait.



-z

[RandFan]

Originally posted by rikzilla
Go ahead we'll wait. Dude...breathe. Wew... :D

10.5 BILLION aid package approved within one week. That's spelled with a "B".

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Freakshow
You can thank me for the question, but you didn't answer it... Just because it wasn't logical or relevant doesn't mean he didn't answer the question. Here is my answer. Apples. So there!

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by RandFan
Here is my answer. Apples.

What a fruitful answer :)

[claimee]

Originally posted by manny
Dude. Stop beating yourself up. Of course Germany offered to help (http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/press/releases/pr_08_31_05.htm). It's all good.Germany is prepared to provide the United States with technical assistance in coping with the massive devastation caused by Hurricane Katrina. "If there are requests on the part of the Americans, then we will surely participate," German Interior Minister Otto Schily said on behalf of the German Government in an interview with Reuters TV today. August 31, 2005 - Of course Germany offered to help (http://www.germany-info.org/relaunch/info/press/releases/pr_08_31_05.htm)
"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we haven't asked for it," Bush told ABC. "We love help, but we are going to take care of our own business, as well."Sep 1, 2005 - http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20050901/pl_afp/usweatherbush

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Ryokan
What a fruitful answer :) Now if I could only multiply.

[schplurg]

rjh01:
I think you will agree that there are many people with guns in the USA. It shows that the gun owners are not responsible people. Either they are doing the shooting or even worse the guns were stolen from them. The gun owners failed to properly secure both the guns and the ammunition against theft.
Your claim that "Gun owners are not responsible people" because SOME people have used them is quite a leap. I'd wager most of these "gun owners" are gang members who possess firearms illegally. In fact, out of the 1000s of gun owners in New Orleans, it seems that only a few have decided to use them irresponsibly. One might say that this is evidence that gun owners ARE responsible, as most of them are not out looting, even though they own weapons that would make looting easy. No, I am not a gun owner.
The headline in our local paper today (The Canberra Times) is 'Death, decay as city festers. No relief for those in water-logged war zone.'

This is the sort of heading I would expect to see from a third world country not the first world country.
This is the sort of headline I would expect to see in a smalltown newspaper that likes to write overly dramatic headlines.

Proof that USA society is inferier to some third world countries.
Well, you proved something anyways, but not that.

[rjh01]

Thank you schplurg. Good reply to my post.

[rjh01]

But if you do not like my headlines try this one:- Shoot-at-sight orders in New Orleans (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/1218671.cms) Shoot-to-kill orders were deployed in New Orleans in an attempt to bring back order after days of chaos and looting in the hurricane-devastated city.
It was hard to pick out one paragraph. Every paragraph is shocking.

[rjh01]

Originally posted by rikzilla
The only proof I see is of your arrogant attitude and "inferier" spelling skills.

Please provide proof of your assertion. Name the 3rd world countries who are superior to the USA. Let's see if you can name one that doesn't enslave people, pray to a rock, have a special section of the police force which hunts down witches, or have a Dear Leader instead of a legislature. Go ahead we'll wait.
-z
Wait no more. Here is my first answer. Yes, my spelling is inferior. But your challenge looks too easy. What have I overlooked?

I do not know any country that still hunts down witches. All I can interpret from what you are saying is that you want me to name 3rd world countries that have democracy and does not have many laws for religious reasons (Israel gets disqualified for that reason). Below is a list of some such countries I can think of. I am sure there are plenty of others. If you want to add any criteria that is OK. I am adding one more criteria. Their economy is growing. I say any 3rd world country that has a growing economy is doing something right.

India (A country to watch.)
South Korea (This country is an example of how to change from a poor country into one which has GDP per capita $19,200 (2004 est.))
Singapore (but how democratic is this country?)
Brazil. (Leading economic power of South America)

Reference (http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/xx.html)

[rjh01]

The Australian Broadcasting Corporation news (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452244.htm)

Warning. The content of the above shows how dangerous the city is. Sample "There's so much violence going on even the SWAT team has locked themselves in their building."

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by geni
No he didn't

http://www.godhatesfags.com/featured/20050831_thank-god-for-katrina.html

No, these guys know the real reason.

http://www.theage.com.au/news/world/katrina-a-sign-of-divine-wrath-say-fundamentalists/2005/09/03/1125302770263.html



As religious and political leaders offered prayers for the victims of Hurricane Katrina, some Christian fundamentalists suggested the storm was the work of an angry God bent on punishing a sinful nation.

In news releases and internet chat rooms, some fundamentalists said the hurricane was sent to punish New Orleans, a city known for Mardi Gras and other raucous festivals.

Others said the disaster, which may have killed thousands in Louisiana and Mississippi, was revenge for the United States' support of the removal of Jewish settlers in the Gaza Strip.

"Whenever this country encourages Israel to give up any part of their rightful God-given land we have suffered the consequences," wrote a discussion-board participant on the website of the Christian Broadcasting Network.

A Philadelphia group called Repent America said the hurricane was sent by God to prevent an annual gay pride festival that was due to take place this weekend.

"We must not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," said Repent America director Michael Marcavage. "May this act of God cause us all to think about what we tolerate in our city limits."

Evangelical leaders like Jerry Falwell and Christian Broadcasting Network founder Pat Robertson urged their followers to pray for the victims and contribute to relief efforts, but made no public statements about the reason for the hurricane.

But Franklin Graham, who heads the evangelical charity Samaritan's Purse, said on the Fox News Channel the mayhem and looting in New Orleans could be traced to a lack of religious instruction.

[Kerberos]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
What's your position on cats? Cats are evil too. When the gods punish the cats the people who tolerate and pander to them catch the fallout.

It's not gays, people, it's cats.
Cats get automatic and free membership to any cult dedicated to evil.

Originally posted by CapelDodger
"The Gods, United, Will Never Be Defeated". Makes for a good chant.
My cult just got a moto. :D

[Ryokan]

This just in :

The government of Norway is sending two million dollars, medicine, oil and five Royal Navy divers to assist the US government in their time of crisis.

Imagine that, giving foreign aid to the most powerful nation on the planet :D

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by Ryokan
This just in :

The government of Norway is sending two million dollars, medicine, oil and five Royal Navy divers to assist the US government in their time of crisis.

Imagine that, giving foreign aid to the most powerful nation on the planet :D And it's a Royal Navy that's helping out. That must sting.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by Kerberos
Cats get automatic and free membership to any cult dedicated to evil. We have presented an object-lesson in how to respond to the approaches of a cult. Question and gain new data. "Dedicated to evil", you say? That wasn't mentioned earlier. Damned if I'll start being dedicated to anything.

But you don't declare your own cult's position on cats, dedication or evil. Buddha you've crushed with disdain, but when it comes to a real power in the world - cats - you become indeterminate.

I'm going to start my own cult. At least I'll know where I stand.

[E.J.Armstrong]

originally posted by Ed
Let's see if you can name one that doesn't enslave people, pray to a rock, have a special section of the police force which hunts down witches, or have a Dear Leader instead of a legislature.
Slavery - see http://www.iabolish.com/today/features/us/map/mainpage.htm for slavery in the USA

Pray to a rock - See 'On the other hand, some European goverments see the United States attitude as lack of responsibility of the state regarding the wellbeing of its citizens, especially concerning children and incapacitated persons, and claim that it is, at least partially due to lobbying of cults and cult apologists with the United States government.' from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cult#Cults_and_governments

Special section of police forces - 'A number of hints of the project's existence did become public in the 1980s however, when Joseph McMoneagle claimed in public to have been employed as a "psychic spy" for some sixteen years before leaving the U.S. Army.' from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remote_viewing#CIA_involvement Sylvia Browne currently claims on her web site to help the police solve crimes.

Dear leader - Who once won a presidential elecction for an office previously occupied by the candidates father in a state governed by the candidate's brother with an electoral process overseen by the election agent of the presidential candidate?

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by rjh01
The Australian Broadcasting Corporation news (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452244.htm)

Warning. The content of the above shows how dangerous the city is. Sample

I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the past several days in New Orleans show that the US is a "bad" country? If that is the case, then is any country that has had even a single similar incident in its past "bad"? If not, then what is the difference?

[rjh01]

Originally posted by Freakshow
I'm not really sure what you are trying to say here. Are you saying that the past several days in New Orleans show that the US is a "bad" country? If that is the case, then is any country that has had even a single similar incident in its past "bad"? If not, then what is the difference?
From time to time, a whole city will be badly damaged from a natural disaster. You will often then get some looting. Then after a day or two order is restored. The people who want to can get out; food and other supplies come in. That is normal. What is happening here is different; it is almost a second disaster on top of the first. I cannot remember any disaster where such things quoted in the article happened all in one disaster. This is not just an isolated case of a few people doing stupid things. That happens in many places. It is many people doing stupid things causing the complete breakdown of law and order and the failure of the government to quickly restore order..

Do you know where the law and order has broken down for several days in any developed country for any reason, in either the 20th or 21st centuries? Because I cannot. So why has it happened in New Orleans? Is it because of American society is ‘bad’ as I tried to argue above? Or is it just an extreme case of a normal reaction to a disaster? Or is there some other reason?

At least order is being restored now. Law and order 'restored' (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452745.htm)

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by rjh01
From time to time, a whole city will be badly damaged from a natural disaster. You will often then get some looting. Then after a day or two order is restored. The people who want to can get out; food and other supplies come in. That is normal. What is happening here is different; it is almost a second disaster on top of the first. I cannot remember any disaster where such things quoted in the article happened all in one disaster. This is not just an isolated case of a few people doing stupid things. That happens in many places. It is many people doing stupid things causing the complete breakdown of law and order and the failure of the government to quickly restore order..

Do you know where the law and order has broken down for several days in any developed country for any reason, in either the 20th or 21st centuries? Because I cannot. So why has it happened in New Orleans? Is it because of American society is ‘bad’ as I tried to argue above? Or is it just an extreme case of a normal reaction to a disaster? Or is there some other reason?

At least order is being restored now. Law and order 'restored' (http://www.abc.net.au/news/newsitems/200509/s1452745.htm)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_riots

[Renfield]

The world has responded, including the diabolical French, and George the Second has said "no thanks".

Rednecks across the country rejoice.

[rjh01]

Interesting link, Freakshow. It does mention many riots; many of them due to ethnic tension or political reasons. I cannot find any riots in the list due to natural disasters. There have been many natural disasters, like Cyclone Tracy, which wiped out Darwin in 1974. However there was no wide spread looting and no break down of law and order. So, what is the difference between Cyclone Tracy and what happened in New Orleans?


I notice that even Hurricane Andrew (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Andrew) did not produce riots or break down of law and order.

Cyclone Tracy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyclone_Tracy)

I notice in the cyclone link below looting or breakdown in law and order are not even mentioned in the secondary effects of a tropical cyclone.

Tropical cyclone (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tropical_cyclone)

[luchog]

Originally posted by rjh01
I do not know any country that still hunts down witches
Some African nations still officially arrest and prosecute people based on witchcraft. Not on a national basis ususally; but it's far from uncommon in smaller, more isolated communities. I've heard that there are African nations where witchcraft is still prosecuted on an active, national scale; but haven't been able to verify.

In Haiti, people can still be arrested and prosecuted for sorcery. There were 12 people arrested in 1997 for accusations of sorcery and public disturbance. (They were released later, because the accusations were not proven; but others have been convicted and jailed for sorcery).

In Islamic nations a special police force, the hisba (aka "morals police"), is maintained to punish "morals" offenses; which includes, among other things, witchcraft, blasphemy, homosexuality, adultery, and apostasy. Some of these, such as witchcraft, are punishable by death. Saudi Arabia and Iran are two nations that do so actively on a national basis.