What the heck kind of copped-out prayer is this?

[the_ignored]

Oh wait, I think I just answered my own question.

http://www.ecclesia.org/truth/objections.html

"There is no God."

Answer: To see the logic of leaving God out of the equation, consider this:

Frog + Princess's kiss = Handsome prince (fairy tale).
Frog + Millions of years = Handsome prince (theory of evolution).

By definition, no one knows what lies outside their tiny circle of knowledge. Don't be like a blind person trying to convince himself that because he has never seen, everyone else claiming to see must be mistaken. Try saying this:

[b]"Dear Father, I would like you to show me if you exist. If you are God, you are so superior to me that I cannot put demands on you. Anything you choose to show me must be on your terms - your time and your method. I can understand you not showing yourself to people who have little desire to know you. I will demonstrate my genuineness by at least reading the material presented here, looking for clues that might help open me to your revelation. And why should you bother revealing yourself to someone who would continue to ignore you anyway? If you show me there is a powerful, caring God who made me and wants the best for me, I will give you your rightful place as God of my life by obeying and trusting your love and wisdom."

Nice, a prayer with built-in cop-outs.

[Ceritus]

That prayer makes me giggle.

I don't think it could be any more disrespectful to the person saying it.

Basically the prayer is saying this.

God would you show yourself to me? If you are god you are superior to me and I cannot demand you to show yourself to me.
If you do happen to show yourself to me it will be when you choose. I can understand why you do not show yourself to skeptical people. But if I'm really good will you show yourself to me? If you do show yourself to me I will treat you as my god and obey.


Ok, let me get this straight. This prayer is praying for god to show himself. If he does show himself then this person will believe in god?

I cannot think of any other community that would want to see real evidence of a god than atheists and agnostics. And for this person condemning the atheist community by saying I can understand you not showing yourself to people who have little desire to know you and And why should you bother revealing yourself to someone who would continue to ignore you anyway? This person himself is asking for the same stuff atheists are. Proof.

This prayer is just a hypocrisy in and of itself and a proclamation of the lack of intelligence for any person who would say this prayer.

[c4ts]

"There is no God."
Answer: To see the logic of leaving God out of the equation, consider this:


Frog + Princess's kiss = Handsome prince (fairy tale).
Frog + Millions of years = Handsome prince (theory of evolution).


By definition, no one knows what lies outside their tiny circle of knowledge. Don't be like a blind person trying to convince himself that because he has never seen, everyone else claiming to see must be mistaken. Try saying this:


"Dear Father, I would like you to show me if you exist. If you are God, you are so superior to me that I cannot put demands on you. Anything you choose to show me must be on your terms - your time and your method. I can understand you not showing yourself to people who have little desire to know you. I will demonstrate my genuineness by at least reading the material presented here, looking for clues that might help open me to your revelation. And why should you bother revealing yourself to someone who would continue to ignore you anyway? If you show me there is a powerful, caring God who made me and wants the best for me, I will give you your rightful place as God of my life by obeying and trusting your love and wisdom."

I'm sorry but praying to something does not make it exist. It's like they've invented a whole new form of logical fallacy! If I say the prayer, will God suddenly materialize before me, and I will KNOW for certain that he exists?

If I pray to other random imaginary beings, will I suddenly know they are real and have coffeehouse chats where all my questions are answered? I must test this theory!

Unfortunately, I can't prove conclusively that I said the prayer from the site, because I don't have a microphone for my computer available to me, or some other means of uploading it to the board. The only thing I felt was foolish for taking advice from a random website. No answer to my questions or anything like that. It would have been cool, but no dice. I'm still the same heathen I was before I said it.

Tests with other imaginary beings have also failed. I apologized profusely to Great Cthulhu for being a tasty pestilence upon the Earth but he has yet to return my calls. I implored the Almighty Taco to beat up the Flying Spaghetti Monster and bring me its severed noodly appendages but I get nothing. I even made up an entity- The Hyper Splotch of Ploog- asking if he would bock a faffar just so I could be sure of his existence. I'm not sure what that means but it didn't happen. I'm still the same heathen, and now I'm slightly disappointed because the faffar remains unbocked.

Maybe it would have worked if I believed in the first place, but (a) there would be no point saying the prayer if I believed in the first place and (b) reality doesn't come and go based on what your beliefs are or what you want to be true. If that worked I'd be gazing in awe at Mighty Cthulhu as he and the Taco beat the crap out of the Flying Spaghetti Monster, because that's what I'd prayed for, that's what I wanted to be true.

If you're going to say there is a God, it's your job to prove it before you start trying to convince everybody else to worship it. How does one go about this with an open mind? If the reasons to consider a posibility are invented by the conclusion, if no reasons outside this context can be found, the idea is itself unintelligible.

[juryjone]

It's a prayer that puts unbelievers in the same predicament that believers are in.

I pray.

A) Something happens. God did it.

B) Nothing happens. God did it.

How could that not be proof?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by juryjone
It's a prayer that puts unbelievers in the same predicament that believers are in.

I pray.

A) Something happens. God did it.

B) Nothing happens. God did it.

How could that not be proof?

The same way just saying "God did it" isn't proof, but oh, yeah, I'm TOTALLY CONVINCED!

I think people write these things to convince themselves and nobody else. It's failed rhetoric at best.

[shemp]

I exist. Pray to me and send a large sum of money, and I'll come around and prove it.

[juryjone]

Originally posted by shemp
I exist. Pray to me and send a large sum of money, and I'll come around and prove it.

You're no god then, since you'll prove it. Why should I pray to you?

[Beerina]

Originally posted by the_ignored
I can understand you not showing yourself to people who have little desire to know you.

Ok, how about this then...

Dear God,

Our planet is plagued with myriad conflicting and silly-sounding religions. Followers of each claim theirs is true, and that only the other ones are silly. Objective analysis shows every single one of them to be false and without any support whatsoever. Some interpret this as "little desire to know you". I claim if that's knowing you, then you must be an idiot. Show us otherwise, please.

I'm sure you'll get to it sometime around when Sylvia gets tested by Randi on national TV.

[shemp]

Originally posted by juryjone
You're no god then, since you'll prove it. Why should I pray to you?

Do you want a bolt of lightning up yours? Get down and start praying! (But send money first.)

[c4ts]

Originally posted by shemp
Do you want a bolt of lightning up yours? Get down and start praying! (But send money first.)

Yeah, Shemp is serious! I sent him money and he came over to my house. Then my brother sent him play money, so Shemp stuck a lighting bolt up his ass. Now the poor sucker can't take a dump without grounding wire. Shemp is right beside you all the time, you just have to know what to look for. All you have to do is send him real money and BELIEVE!

[juryjone]

Originally posted by c4ts
Yeah, Shemp is serious! I sent him money and he came over to my house. Then my brother sent him play money, so Shemp stuck a lighting bolt up his ass. Now the poor sucker can't take a dump without grounding wire. Shemp is right beside you all the time, you just have to know what to look for. All you have to do is send him real money and BELIEVE!

I happen to know that if Shemp was serious he wouldn't send a lightning bolt up my ass, he'd use a monkey wrench on my nose.

Begone from me, false Shemp!

[Shrike]

Just to get this back on the more serious side, how about asking about Elijah and his nifty little test in 1 Kings 18 (KJV)?
Link (http://bibleontheweb.com/Bible.asp)