A religion focused upon an absolute God

[lifegazer]

This thread follows-on from the thread titled "The God of all Gods. Unsurpassable.".
In that thread, I discuss the concept of God as an absolute, as opposed to a relative meaning.
For those who haven't read that thread, here's a taster:

Here, in this thread, I have defined 'God' in it's absolute glory.
A God that is all-present (the totality of existence) and a God that possesses any and all power/knowledge, truly surpasses those finite Gods worshipped by religious people. And there can be no doubt that those who believe in the reality of themselves/others truly limit the presence/power/knowledge of God.
Further, if the definition of 'God' is an entity with finite presence/power/knowledge, then all creatures are, by definition, God. Thus, the concept 'God' becomes a meaningless (to reason) concept.
Add to this the fact that relative-power is power that is in flux, and we clearly see the absurdity of worshipping a finite entity with relative power.
In brief, 'God' can only have any meaning if it is understood in it's most absolute glory.(from page 5)(recommend reading OP)

So, the absolute understanding of the concept that is 'God'
renders God as the totality of existence.
Clearly, this is at-odds with Christianity since Christians believe in the reality of man and the devil as separate entities to God.
Yet most Christians do not realise that such beliefs in other entities renders their God as limited in presence, power & knowledge. In effect, it renders their God as a finite spatial entity with finite power and finite knowledge. In their desire to believe in the reality of devil and man, they belittle and materialise their God.

This post serves as an introduction to this new thread. I don't want to discuss the above here (you can do that over in the other thread, if you wish). Here, I want to discuss what it would mean to believe in the reality/existence of an absolute God.
As I asked in that other thread:
What does it mean for the self to believe in the reality of this God?

In this thread, I shall be discussing such questions. But I won't do it in this post since it has become quite a long introduction.
So, I request that you all abstain from posting until after my next post.
Cheers.

[Ryokan]

Hey, even lifegazer gets bored halfway through his posts. Good, I thought it was just me ;)

[Robin]

Originally posted by Ryokan
Hey, even lifegazer gets bored halfway through his posts. Good, I thought it was just me ;)
I vote this the comeback of the year:p

Thanks, I needed that laugh.

[Piscivore]

... is absolutely meaningless. :)

[lifegazer]

So...
What does it mean for the self to believe in the reality of this [absolute] God?

In other words, if you believe (or came to believe) in the reality/existence of 'God' and now understand that concept in it's absolute glory/meaning, what does/would it mean for 'you'?

... Well, as I have explained, this [absolute] God equates to the totality of existence. This means that if this God exists, then nothing else does.
This doesn't mean that You do not exist, since - as the experiencER of your sensations/thoughts/feelings (which constitute the human experience) - You obviously do exist.
So, such a belief obliges You to acknowledge that You
are God... albeit, lost to/within the experience of being human.

You suddenly acknowledge that You must be God. So what now?

... Your mission now - should you accept it - will be to eradicate the belief that you actually are the individual human within Your awareness. The ego will be the [experience of the] death of You. 'It' muddies your true identity and prevents you from being what you truly are, for you cannot be as God whilst you still have the attitude that you are human.

Hence this realisation spurs you to internal change. If God has the experience of being every living creature, then God is every living creature that seems to have an experience. Hence, one must truly learn to "love thy neighbour as thyself", since thy neighbour is thyself.
Jesus' commandment was not for nothing. Only a fool would command you to love every creature separate from you as much as you love yourself. Jesus was no fool - he knew that "I and the father are ONE" (the same).

One must strive to lose the belief in actual human identity and recognise that each individual human is nought but a different experience being had by God (Yourself). Hence, God is the essence of all mankind. Hence you now have legitimate (logically) reason to love your neighbour as yourself.

When/if one finally and completely accepts oneself as God, one will have Christ consciousness. Then, as The Christ himself said:

"Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater [works] than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father."

Believe that "I and the father are One", and you shall have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ.
Reassuringly, one cannot have such power whilst one still sees himself as man. Therefore, such power is used for the good of all existence... or not at all.

[Ryokan]

So, what great works can you do, lifegazer? Show me a single one, and I'll be your follower for the rest of my life.

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by Ryokan
So, what great works can you do, lifegazer? Show me a single one, and I'll be your follower for the rest of my life.

He can assert his own intelligence and superiority against evidence. In a single bound. :)

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by Ryokan
So, what great works can you do, lifegazer? Show me a single one, and I'll be your follower for the rest of my life.
I don't want you to follow 'lifegazer', you bozo.

Nobody is saved by worshipping another. Nobody is saved by seeing God outside himself.

You either see Yourself as God and produce your own great works, or you're going to experience eternal misery. And that's that.

What 'lifegazer' can or cannot do is completely irrelevant to anything I have said. If you don't understand that, then you aren't as intelligent as I thought you were.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by lifegazer
I don't want you to follow 'lifegazer', you bozo.

Nobody is saved by worshipping another. Nobody is saved by seeing God outside himself.

You either see Yourself as God and produce your own great works, or you're going to experience eternal misery. And that's that.

What 'lifegazer' can or cannot do is completely irrelevant to anything I have said. If you don't understand that, then you aren't as intelligent as I thought you were.

So Ryokan is God and Lifegazer isn't?

[Dredred]

Originally posted by lifegazer
What 'lifegazer' can or cannot do is completely irrelevant to anything I have said. If you don't understand that, then you aren't as intelligent as I thought you were.

It's not about you. You are asked to back up your claim:

Believe that "I and the father are One", and you shall have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ.

Apparently you already believe it, so you "have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ." Well, let's see it.

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by lifegazer
What 'lifegazer' can or cannot do is completely irrelevant to anything I have said. If you don't understand that, then you aren't as intelligent as I thought you were.

Of course it's relevant. You claim you can do works of wonders comparable to Jesus.

I don't believe you, it just sounds too far fetched.

If you want us to believe, you must prove it to us. Obviously, your 'logic' is not enough!

Actually, I'm going to call you a liar. You're a liar, lifegazer, trying to get attention to yourself and your delusional philosophy. You're a liar who, when confronted with his lies makes ad-hominem attacks.

If you're not a liar, you have the means, by your words, to turn the world into a paradise of peace and prosperity. Just show the world your great works, and it will happen, because people will see the truth of your ways.

But you won't, because you're a liar.

[Beleth]

What exactly do you mean when you use the word "worship", lifegazer?

In other words, what are some signs that a person is "worshiping" the totality of existence?

Can you have a "religion" without a method of "worship"?

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by c4ts
So Ryokan is God and Lifegazer isn't?
Both are experiences being had by God.

Ryokan is doomed unless he sees Itself as God. Seeing 'lifegazer' as God is a futile experience. Look what happened to the Christians. They worshipped the man that was Jesus instead of the God that was at the heart of everyone, including themselves.

'Christianity' blew it.

The second-coming of Christ is not another physical manifestation, but a second chance to re-understand what has already been reported.

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Both are experiences being had by God.

Ryokan is doomed unless he sees Itself as God. Seeing 'lifegazer' as God is a futile experience. Look what happened to the Christians. They worshipped

I didn't want to see 'lifegazer as God'. You claim your religion brings you powers. I say they don't. You have the means to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that your religion is true. If you do, I promise that I will believe, I will follow your religion and I will help you convert humanity to the religion of The Absolute God.

Jesus was more than willing to show his powers to convert people to what he thought was the greater good.

You're a liar, lifegazer.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Both are experiences being had by God.

Ryokan is doomed unless he sees Itself as God. Seeing 'lifegazer' as God is a futile experience. Look what happened to the Christians. They worshipped the man that was Jesus instead of the God that was at the heart of everyone, including themselves.


But you claim that if you believe you are God you can perform miracles. Therefore you should be able to perform one. So do it.

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by c4ts
But you claim that if you believe you are God you can perform miracles. Therefore you should be able to perform one. So do it.
What "miracle" that I perform will convince YOU that you are God?
None.
Jesus (amongst many works) raised the dead - including the dead Jesus himself - and inspired 2000 years of worship in the man that was Jesus!!!

I don't want the next 2000 years devoted to discussion & worship of 'lifegazer'. You have to find God within yourself - and produce your own "miracles".

This is the 21st century and this is the new doctrine.

[Dredred]

Okay, lifegazer, I see. You "have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ" but you won't do any of those great works because you "don't want the next 2000 years devoted to discussion & worship of 'lifegazer'." Sure, gazer, gaze on.

[Ryokan]

Hey, anyone been watching this season of Stargate SG-1? I was a little nervous before this season, but I didn't need to worry! This season rocks!

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by Ryokan
I didn't want to see 'lifegazer as God'. You claim your religion brings you powers. I say they don't. You have the means to prove, without a shadow of a doubt, that your religion is true.

Really? What do you suggest - crucifixion and resurrection? Will that suffice?
Rabbit out of an empty hat?
5 aces in a pack of cards?

Admittedly, you would be impressed by any such 'trick'. But nothing that I might do would prove that YOU are God.
Hence, anything that 'lifegazer' might do is pointless with regards this discussion.

Grow-up and think instead of begging for miracles from other entities. Lifegazer is not your saviour. You, alone, are.

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Really? What do you suggest - crucifixion and resurrection? Will that suffice?
Rabbit out of an empty hat?
5 aces in a pack of cards?

Admittedly, you would be impressed by any such 'trick'. But nothing that I might do would prove that YOU are God.
Hence, anything that 'lifegazer' might do is pointless with regards this discussion.

Grow-up and think instead of begging for miracles from other entities. Lifegazer is not your saviour. You, alone, are.

It will convince me that you're telling the truth, and not just telling porkies!

Your're a liar, lifegazer.

Besides, I already have a religion where I'm my own saviour. I'm a Buddhist.

[lifegazer]

How disappointing: I desire philosophical inquiry and get nought but requests for rabbits out of empty-hats.
Let this be a reflection of your own inadequacies, rather than those of 'lifegazer'.

Does anyone here have anything of an intelligent (rational)
content to add to this discussion?
Please, raise my expectations... for once.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by lifegazer
How disappointing: I desire philosophical inquiry and get nought but requests for rabbits out of empty-hats.
Let this be a reflection of your own inadequacies, rather than those of 'lifegazer'.
You're the one claiming to "have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ".
Originally posted by lifegazer

Does anyone here have anything of an intelligent (rational)
content to add to this discussion?
Well, it won't be you, that's for sure.

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by lifegazer
I desire philosophical inquiry and get nought but requests for rabbits out of empty-hats.

You made the claim, lifegazer. You say you've got greater powers than Jesus Christ, I say you're a liar.

Just between you and me, why don't you use your powers to heal the sick and help the poor? You say you have the means to do that. No one needs to know it was you that did it, I won't tell.

And I promise not to worhip you if you do.

Or are you just telling porkies, squire?

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by Ryokan
Besides, I already have a religion where I'm my own saviour. I'm a Buddhist.
Buddhists are w*****s. How can you be your own saviour when you ascribe no individual will/life/intelligence/purpose to the essence of that which you are?

[lifegazer]

Originally posted by Dredred
You're the one claiming to "have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ".

Actually, I'm the one claiming that you have that capacity. I have no other reason to be here, other than to explain this to you.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Both are experiences being had by God.

Ryokan is doomed unless he sees Itself as God.

What do you mean? If we are an experience being had by God, whether we believe it or not, the experience of our individuality is over once we die anyway, isn't it? So what difference does it make whether you do or don't see yourself as God? What makes you doomed if you don't?

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Buddhists are w*****s. How can you be your own saviour when you ascribe no individual will/life/intelligence/purpose to the essence of that which you are?

Because that's what will make you a better person, not some ego-belief that you are the ultimate power in the universe. Your belief has demonstrably NO gains.

Or how is it, lifegazer? How is your life? To me you sound like a bitter and lonely old man, angry at the world.

Remember when you said that everyone who didn't believe as you did would be crucified at the second coming?

[Dredred]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Actually, I'm the one claiming that you have that capacity. I have no other reason to be here, other than to explain this to you.

No. Your claim: Believe that "I and the father are One", and you shall have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ.

You claim that who believes that "I and the father are One" " Shall have the capacity to do greater works than those reported by the Christ."

Now you claim that that doesn't apply to you? That can only mean that you don't believe it yourself.

[Donks]

Originally posted by lifegazer
Actually, I'm the one claiming that you have that capacity. I have no other reason to be here, other than to explain this to you.
Then you are failing. Your ideas come accross as just a tiny bit cooky. But if you were to perform a miracle, then we'd all have to reasses our position and maybe even accept our own godhood.

[UserGoogol]

I admit I have missed a post where you made some brilliant explanation of your philosophy, (your threads tend to run long and I'm not an active enough member to really care enough to read through them all) but allow me to ask you a few questions.

According to your philosophy, "God" is the sum of all things that exist. It seems rather self-evident that I cannot be exactly the same as God, but am instead, merely a little breakaway subpersonality of his. (Because if I was exactly the same as God, and you were exactly the same as God, then we would be exactly the same. But here I am talking to you as if we were different people, which suggests that something is up.) Although granted, it would appear that your philosophy suggests that I am on a philosophical level made of the same all-encompassing "stuff" as God.

But if someone accepts that they are in fact merely God tricking Himself into thinkng that he's some other guy, how does this change their life in any meaningful way? How does this realization allow me to gain access to the parts of "myself" which I am not currently taking advantage of? Furthermore, why can't I do these miraculous things without becoming aware of my utterly-all-encompassing real existance?

[c4ts]

Originally posted by lifegazer
What "miracle" that I perform will convince YOU that you are God?
None.
Jesus (amongst many works) raised the dead - including the dead Jesus himself - and inspired 2000 years of worship in the man that was Jesus!!!

I don't want the next 2000 years devoted to discussion & worship of 'lifegazer'. You have to find God within yourself - and produce your own "miracles".

This is the 21st century and this is the new doctrine.

First of all, you said you are God, and so am I. Since they are all equal aspects as you say, it doesn't make a difference who or what I worship since it is all the same thing. Unless you want to contradict yourself and say certain things are not God.

Second of all, your own example, bringing a dead guy back to life would make me BELIEVE. I just don't think you or anyone else can do it. Should you succeed you can teach me how to do it and then I'll use my amazing God powers to prevent the formation of a second Christianity, so there is nothing to fear.

[Beleth]

Originally posted by lifegazer
How disappointing: I desire philosophical inquiry and get nought but requests for rabbits out of empty-hats.My questions were not requests for rabbits out of empty hats. My questions were serious inquiries into the nature of your philosophy and its ramifications.

Why won't you even acknowledge them?
Are they too difficult?

[Robin]

So what would it mean for you to believe in an absolute God that was the totality of existence?

Well for a start if it really was God we might suppose it was absolutely smart. So there would be no point in second guessing it by attempting to 'live as God' or any such fool notion. If it was God then it would know what it was doing and have done so for a reason. So we would then probably continue our allotted roles as before in the knowledge that God has the final outcome in hand.

Trying to help God would be a little like the toddler who tries to help the spring cleaning by dragging round a broom or wiping the walls with a cloth. Cute but ultimately no help at all.

What would it mean for you to believe that you were God?

Well for a start you would have to fool yourself into accepting an irrational, contradictory definition of omniscience - somthing like 'knowing + not knowing'.

Maybe it would mean you could do miraculous things, fly around crunching cars like Keanu Reeves. But there would be no satisfaction in doing anything because you would know it was an illusion.

That would lead you to decide to wake up and become God in full knowledge of your divinity. But there can only be one omnipotent will so all your individuality would be lost. There is only one genuine God consciousness and it would be foolish to think that your little illusion coming to an end would alter that consciousness in any way.

In all effect "you" would die and God would still be the God it was before and after your illusion happened.

So that would be the truth of your situation - an illusional temporary consciousness that had some brief role to play in the overall scheme of things then vanishes.

Most importantly you would realise that love is never possible, since love requires more than one person to exist. Since self-love is not love at all but a deadening, trivial thing properly called vanity.

Only a fool would command you to love every creature as much as you love yourself if every creature were you. 'Love your enemy' is profound. 'Love yourself' is shallow.

And that would bring home the emptiness of such an existence - no possiblity of love. So you would suddenly hope that you weren't God, that the totality of existence is just simply the totality of existence and does not need any other name. Maybe that is why God has to while away eternity in dreams, to escape this awful truth.

That is why Christian theologians have been asking for centuries - "If God is Love then how could God ever be the only thing in existence?".

[Beerina]

Originally posted by Beleth

Can you have a "religion" without a method of "worship"?

Robert Heinlein, in "Job: A Comedy of Errors", deals deftly with Yaweh being some kind of freakizoid god who demands worship, unlike all the other gods of all the other universes and planes and levels of reality.

Ummm...lucky us.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by Robin

Most importantly you would realise that love is never possible, since love requires more than one person to exist. Since self-love is not love at all but a deadening, trivial thing properly called vanity.
Since when is vanity the same as loving yourself? There's nothing wrong with loving yourself; I'd say it's even very important.

[Z]

Furthermore, once you realize that You are God, and I am God, and Bob is God, and that rock is God, etc. etc. you also realize that everyone that has come before, and everyone who has come since, has acted in full accord to the Will of God. You also realize that your own will is meaningless, since your will is merely the Will of God.

This is a horribly liberating belief to embrace, since it means that your every choice, your every decision, is nothing less than the Will of God. And you can't harm anyone, since God is clearly in no way harming God. So why not rape, murder, commit incest, genocide, and so on and so forth? Who are you hurting? Yourself? God? Can God be hurt? If God can be hurt, how is he the Ultimate God? If God cannot be hurt, why waste time and effort on morality, and instead why not embrace pure and total hedonism?

Besides, consider this example: Bart becomes a Gazerist. Sandy also becomes a Gazerist.

In Bart's previous life, Bart was a skinhead racist homophobe. However, since embracing Gazerism, he's changed his tune on racism. But he still feels that homosexuality is a sick and perverted deviation, and definitely against the Will of God.

Sandy, on the other hand, is homosexual. She sees no problem with loving those of any gender after converting, because all people - regardless of gender - are God.

So how do we reconcile these two contradictory opinions? To God(Bart)'s mind, homosexuals are a dangerous perversion meant to be eradicated; to God(Sandy)'s mind, homosexuals are just as perfect and natural as anyone else.

There are potentially hundreds of similar situations to this. Gazerism certainly doesn't address ANY of them. Consider that for a moment.

No, any religion focused upon Gazer's God is going to be no different in any real respect to any other religion the world has seen before. That's the absolute truth.

[Robin]

Originally posted by Dredred
Since when is vanity the same as loving yourself? There's nothing wrong with loving yourself; I'd say it's even very important.
I thought that self-love was the definition of vanity - like whatisname falling in love with his reflection in the Greek legend.

Maybe you are right, but even if you are loving yourself can never be compared to or be as great as loving someone else.

It is trivial in comparison. A universe in which only self love was possible would not be worth living in. But maybe that is just me.

[Robin]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
No, any religion focused upon Gazer's God is going to be no different in any real respect to any other religion the world has seen before. That's the absolute truth.
It sure is. Some time ago I gave another scenario where we all know that we are God but Rod over there doesn't realise it yet. And Rod has a good way with words so a lot of people are being convinced by him. So Rod is causing harm to all these people and the society as a whole by preventing people from knowing they are God. So we should all get together and kill Rod and it will stop him from spreading his dangerous atheism. And as you say since Rod is just an experience being had by God no real harm has been done.

And after all the Rod's have been killed there will arise some tiny difference of opinion over some obscure theological issue and there will be new people to kill.

[Upchurch]

[pokes head in]

**sniff, sniff**

whew, same ol' garbage.

[/leaves]

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Robin
It sure is. Some time ago I gave another scenario where we all know that we are God but Rod over there doesn't realise it yet. And Rod has a good way with words so a lot of people are being convinced by him. So Rod is causing harm to all these people and the society as a whole by preventing people from knowing they are God. So we should all get together and kill Rod and it will stop him from spreading his dangerous atheism. And as you say since Rod is just an experience being had by God no real harm has been done.

And after all the Rod's have been killed there will arise some tiny difference of opinion over some obscure theological issue and there will be new people to kill.

The scenerio is absurd. If everybody is God and knows it, then they would automatically know that Rod is false, no matter what words he may use. Knowing everything there is to know, they could not be convinced of anything.

Or are you saying God is not omniscient?

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by Robin
And after all the Rod's have been killed there will arise some tiny difference of opinion over some obscure theological issue and there will be new people to kill.

As I said earlier, Lifegazer has said that when the second coming arrives, all those who have not converted to his ways will be crucified.

[Z]

That's also part of the point.

If Darren could even do as little as demonstrate, absolutely, that he can access the Knowledge of God, we'd have good reason to be convinced.

But if he cannot do even that, then there's no reason at all to bother with Gazerism.

That's pretty much the bottom line - put up, or shut up, as they say.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by zaayrdragon
That's also part of the point.

If Darren could even do as little as demonstrate, absolutely, that he can access the Knowledge of God, we'd have good reason to be convinced.

But if he cannot do even that, then there's no reason at all to bother with Gazerism.

That's pretty much the bottom line - put up, or shut up, as they say.

The ramifications of Lifegazer's philosophy and his diluted transcendental definition of God are supernatural powers for everyone, including himself.

[Robin]

Originally posted by c4ts
The scenerio is absurd. If everybody is God and knows it, then they would automatically know that Rod is false, no matter what words he may use. Knowing everything there is to know, they could not be convinced of anything.

Or are you saying God is not omniscient?
But don't forget that omniscience means knowing + not knowing. So they would automatically know Rod is false and not know that he was false.

The would know everything there is to know as well as not knowing anything there is to know.

They could not be convinced of anything as well as being utterly convinced of everything.

Since God has the infinite ability to create illusion and there is nobody to be fooled but God himself then God must be infinitely gullible as well as being infinitely skeptical.

So clearly the situation where God as Rod is able to create some illusion that fools God as everybody else must be avoided at all costs.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Robin
But don't forget that omniscience means knowing + not knowing. So they would automatically know Rod is false and not know that he was false.
If that's what omniscience means, it is contradictory, therefore unintelligible. So everything that follows is going to make any kind of rational discourse impossible.

The would know everything there is to know as well as not knowing anything there is to know.

They could not be convinced of anything as well as being utterly convinced of everything.

Since God has the infinite ability to create illusion and there is nobody to be fooled but God himself then God must be infinitely gullible as well as being infinitely skeptical.
This is by definition nonsense. God is p and not p at the same time, in the same sense- which is impossible. If your definition of omnipotence includes the ability to defy logic, then so be it, but the scenereo in which this ability is used can't really demonstrate or prove anything since it has become incomprehensible.

So clearly the situation where God as Rod is able to create some illusion that fools God as everybody else must be avoided at all costs.

Yeah, it's all square circles from here and turtles all the way down.

[Robin]

Originally posted by c4ts
If that's what omniscience means, it is contradictory, therefore unintelligible. So everything that follows is going to make any kind of rational discourse impossible.

Don't tell me, its not my definition.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Robin
Don't tell me, its not my definition.

Well, whoever it belongs to, it's wrong.

[c4ts]

Oops, double post.

[P.S.A.]

Oh, so THIS is where the boards are now!

Anyway, Lifegazer is not just a liar, he's an evil liar. In the true religiously diabolical sense. You know, there's an awful lot of good I could do if I thought I was God. That's the claim he uses to justify his own evil ego anyway: When we are all God like him, we'll be able to do miracles and love each other.

But when the only "proof" of his ideas is exhibited in an evil, bad tempered, dishonest and almost certainly completely insane person, well... would YOU believe in THAT person being God?

No, you can't do it, can you? And I find it impossible to believe in myself as being God too, if the first thing I must do is learn to hate, like Lifegazer hates me and anyone connected to me. If I woke up and thought like Lifegazer, I would be hurting and hating other people, not loving them.

So by chosing to display himself as a selfish incoherant plonker, God disproves his own existance, and thus makes evil triumphant in this world. In the logic of Lifegazer's own philosophy, as well as all other possible intepretations of God which use "Love" as a definition. Lifegazer can't love.

Which makes "Lifegazer" evil.

And the sad thing is, the person who suffers most from his evil destructive personality is himself... because, as I keep pointing out, he does genuinely believe at times that the universe is collapsing into complete evil. He just blames everyone else for his own powerlessness, whilst making himself ever more evil and unlovable whilst trapped in the emotional turmoil that sense of powerless leads to.

In fact, the very first miracle I would perform, if I discovered my own Godhood, would be the complete destruction and erasing of any and all awareness of "Lifegazer" in existance... Because he's a very, very sick individual... in a very, very evil and God killing way.

And he knows this. Which is why he's so very, very mentally disturbed. His insanity brings him no peace of mind. Nor can he gift peace of mind to anyone else. He can only ultimately be evil, both to us as normal people, and to himself in his own twisted, diseased mind.

And evil should never be encouraged.

[Piscivore]

Originally posted by Robin
So we should all get together and kill Rod and it will stop him from spreading his dangerous atheism.

I'd rather you didn't.

[Dredred]

Originally posted by P.S.A.
In fact, the very first miracle I would perform, if I discovered my own Godhood, would be the complete destruction and erasing of any and all awareness of "Lifegazer" in existance... Because he's a very, very sick individual... in a very, very evil and God killing way.

:eek: You're beginning to scare me...

[Robin]

Originally posted by c4ts
Well, whoever it belongs to, it's wrong.
You are absolutely right. And the fact that it is wrong is what makes lifegazer's entire philosophy impossible.

This has of course been pointed out many times before - but lifegazer wanted this to be a thread about the implications of believing his philosophy rather than on the philosophy itself.

In order to do so you have to assume his assumptions for the sake of argument.

[Robin]

Originally posted by Piscivore
I'd rather you didn't.
But in the spirit of the OP that is what you would do. Killing a person is a terrible thing. But if you genuinely thought of it as simply ending an illusion then you would think differently. If you thought of it as ending an illusion that was doing harm then you might even think of it as desirable.

And as Ryokan pointed out earlier this is just the conclusion that lifegazer reached himself, in an earlier thread.

So to address the question:
Lifegazers original question
Here, I want to discuss what it would mean to believe in the reality/existence of an absolute God.
Mine was one of the answers and, yes, I would prefer I didn't too. Just one of the reasons I don't believe in an absolute or any other type of God.

[Kopji]

Sufi Ibn Iraqi
If you lose your [false ego-]self on this path, you will know in certainty: God is you and you are God. [p. 44] The Christian might prefer: God is in you and you are in God.
http://facstaff.elon.edu/sullivan/sufi-xtian3-foldway.htm


I think that's from around the 1300's. And I happen to think Sufi's are sorta cool as far as Muslims go. The part of the 'you are god' thing with the neighbors and stuff is very ancient. Rumi also has passages that introduce the idea. So an interesting perspective on oneness of God, but not new.

Aside from that, having a god be "absolute and finite" would seem to include God as part of his creation (the Muslims would describe it as a heresy).

Finite's a funny thing. If we gathered all the earth-like planets in the universe, and counted all the grains of sand on all the alien ocean shores... there's a really big number that precisely describes those grains of sand.
But it is absolute and not a grain more or less.

So if God is like that, how would he ever come to be? I don't see how the idea of God could be grasped absolutely. A God that had limits would certainly not be a candidate for THE God. He must somehow make the sand.

[P.S.A.]

Originally posted by Dredred
:eek: You're beginning to scare me...

Good. Some of you are starting to get it. I'm deliberately copying Lifegazer's thought patterns. Unfortunately, I have a lot of extremely close personal experience of mental illness, and I recognise and understand these patterns exceptionally well. And they ARE scary.

I repeat again:

According to the logic of his ~philosophy~, the only thing which exists is ~God~. ~God~ is ~All~

~God~ is ultimately ~Good~. Irrespective of how the reality of ~God~ appears to be experienced, this is taken as axiomatic. ~God~ = ~Good~.

The continued existance of ~God~, and therefore of ~Goodness~, depends upon people embracing their ~own Godhood~ This again is axiomatic.

Therefore anything which denies or discredits embracing of one's ~own Godhood~ destroys ~God~, in the complete, or ~All~ sense.

And therefore destroys ~Goodness~ completely. There's a lot of confused and often directly contradictory attempts to rationalise the existance of a destructive experience in a universe made up entirely of a ~Good~ ~God~, but this is the conclusion of Lifegazer's core axioms.

Now... Lifegazer has often called me directly or compared me indirectly to ~Hitler~. This is not sophistry or ad hominem attacks in the Lifegazer logical framework. It flows directly from his own axiomatic attempts to understand the universe... that which attacks ~God~ is automatically ~Evil~. Thus I match ~Hitler~ in Moral defintion, in that I oppose ~Good~

Further still, ~whatever it is which thinks it is you~ is reduced in Lifegazer logic down to ~an experience that God has~. This is an axiomatic truth too. An ~experience of God~ is literally what you are.
Thus anything which is denying that you are ~an experience of God~ is an attempt to end your ~experience~ and thus the only true ~existance~, as ~God~ that you have.

Which is what ~Hitler~ did by killing millions of people. From the Lifegazer perspective, the Holocaust is ~experiences of God~ being ended. As is my critiques of Lifegazer's own Godhood... by denying ~Godhood~ I am ending the ~experience~ of ~Godhood~ . I am committing a morally equivalent act to ~Hitler~, in Lifegazer logic. And so, I match ~Hitler~, in Lifegazer logic, in actual equivalancy of Actions, I commit the same (im)Moral acts as ~Hitler~.

And in Lifegazer logic, if ~God~ is everything, depending on how his mind is trying to understand his own axioms that particular day, I am also ending the ~All~ in the numeric (infinite) sense of the word. Thus I match ~Hitler~ in Scale[ too. I kill millions of ~experiences~ by killing the ~All~ in even a small way.

There are further reasons why I earn such an accolade, one such being my own fluency in the language of the mentally ill, which means I reach him closer and more powerfully than most others do... but this is the core of Lifegazer's thought patterns with regards to myself...

... and not JUST with regards to myself. There's someone else whose identity must be destroyed for fear of provoking the destruction of ~God~ in this universe. You quoted me as saying this;

In fact, the very first miracle I would perform, if I discovered my own Godhood, would be the complete destruction and erasing of any and all awareness of "Lifegazer" in existance...

And these words are in fact a deliberate echoing of Lifegazer's own words about himself.. And I paraphrase: " 'Lifegazer' is the source of all my misery in this life' ", he has said before. You may also peruse the endless attempts here to declare that a clearly monstrously selfish ~philosophy~ is not about 'Lifegazer' at all. And indeed, from the Lifegazer logical approach, it's not.

Because before he began to tried amd destroy all the ~Hitler's~ he discovered in the external world, he has had a long period of trying to destroy the ~Hitler~ that is the closest to God, the one who understand's God the best, but who still isn't able to embrace him fully. It is a core tennet of his own axioms that he must destroy himself.

And every time you ask him to perform a miracle, and give him even the smallest twinge of doubt that he cannot do this... you make him feel like he is killing his own God. Killing millions of people. Of being another ~Hitler~, just like all the people such as myself whom he hates so much.

Which means he must give the entity known as ~Lifegazer~ another scourging. Another crucifixtion. He must burn more of the ~percieved~ Life contained within ~Lifegazer~ away.. it's the only way back to ~Godliness~ and ~Goodliness~ he can see with his insane axioms.

And if I embraced his axioms too, I'd come to the same conclusions too. Which I did. But where as I don't mean them, I actually pity Lifegazer and would rather wish him peaceful respite from his madness than actually embrace a wish for his total self destruction...

... Lifegazer not only means it, but he has become locked into hating others for not encouraging him to crucify himself.

:eek: indeed.