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View Full Version : We're getting richer, but how do we feel?


a_unique_person
6th September 2005, 08:00 PM
http://www.theage.com.au/news/ross-gittins/were-doing-well-but-how-do-we-feel/2005/09/06/1125772519083.html



GDP is the value of all the goods and services produced during the period, which is also (roughly speaking) the amount of income all of us earned.

Although you can never predict these things with any certainty, the tipping is that GDP will have grown by about 1.2 per cent in real terms. If so, there'll be great rejoicing. It will be a sign the economy's rate of growth is picking up from its recent slow patch.

There's just one problem. As every greenie will assure you, GDP is a lousy measure of progress. One glaring weakness is that it ignores all the work and production that doesn't involve the exchange of money. So all the goods and services we produce in our homes don't get counted. Nor does all the voluntary work people do.

Another weakness of GDP is that it includes "defensive expenditures". When the build-up of noise in your street prompts you to get your windows double-glazed, that counts as a plus with no minus - even though you're no better off than you were before the traffic got bad. When someone has a road accident, the cost of repairing cars and bodies counts as a plus, while the damage, the pain, the disruption and any loss of life are all ignored.

A third weakness is that GDP ignores all the costs to the environment generated by economic activity: the depletion of natural resources, the destruction of species, the rubbish, the pollution and the greenhouse gas emissions.

If these limitations of GDP surprise you, they don't surprise economists. They point out that GDP measures our income, and while traffic noise and road accidents do nothing to make us better off, it's undeniable that people earn income from installing double-glazing, repairing cars and repairing bodies.

...

Our politicians - Labor just as much as the Liberals - are obsessed by the thing GDP measures, "economic growth". Governments' utterances are dominated by the growth they boast of having achieved. Oppositions' utterances are dominated by the growth governments have failed to achieve. Both sides' plans and promises are about what they'd do to hasten growth. And the way economists promote economic growth - the way they're always urging us to change society so as to foster economic growth - makes it clear they, too, treat GDP as a measure of wellbeing.

How could we have fallen into this error? It's simple. We don't have a well-developed, regular measure of wellbeing, but we do have a well-developed measure of economic growth.

...

In the United States, however, two leading members of the American Psychological Society - Professor Ed Diener of the University of Illinois and Professor Martin Seligman of the University of Pennsylvania - have launched a campaign to correct this imbalance.

They say there was a time when many basic needs were unmet and economic indicators were a good first approximation of how well a nation was doing. As nations become wealthier and basic needs are largely satisfied, however, economic indicators increasingly miss their target.

Taken alone, national economic indicators are now badly out of phase with national wellbeing. In many developed countries, real GDP per person has doubled or trebled over the past 50 years, while measures of satisfaction with life have been flat.

How could this be? Well, consider the "ill-being" that's grown alongside the growth in GDP: divorce, drug-taking, crime, suicide, depression and stress.

Diener and Seligman say the GDP figures should be supplemented by a regularly published "national wellbeing index" derived from a system of "national accounts of wellbeing". The key measure would be a regular national survey of people's life satisfaction ("taking things overall, how satisfied are you with your life?"), but specific aspects of life would also be surveyed: job satisfaction, physical health, mental disorders and social relationships.

....

And if it focused the attention of politicians, economists and the public directly on the true bottom line - wellbeing - rather than on the production and consumption that's such an unsatisfactory surrogate for it, our lives might be made a lot better.



I think this issue is important, because the one of the whole driving forces of what is 'right or wrong' in our society these days is if it is good or bad for the economy. I think that is a very narrow way of looking at what is good or bad for us.

SixSixSix
6th September 2005, 08:46 PM
It seems difficult to construct such an index that was not subjective.

To take an obvious example: there would be many people that would note the decreased attendance at church to be a negative sign of wellbeing, while others (like me) would note it as a positive. Drug taking, while certainly not my cup of tea, isn't necessarily bad either. Even the increasing divorce rate is not necessarily bad; one has to weigh this with the alternative of previous eras where difficult-to-get divorces meant that many women (and undoubtedly some men) were forced to remain in an unhappy (possibly violent) situation.

I'm not saying there are no indicators that could be regarded as nearly universally accepted - I'm no relativist - but it's not as cut and dried as adding up the reported income.

Skeptic
7th September 2005, 11:01 AM
The problem is, this "wellbeing" index will depend crucially on who puts what into it.

Take the enviorment: is building a neighborhood where a swamp used to be a GOOD thing because it rescues habitable land from the wilderness, or a BAD thing because it destroys the pristine natural balance for short-sighted economic gains? Or take church attendance: is it GOOD that less people are in church, showing people are throwing off ancient superstitions, or is it BAD that less people are in church, showing the collapse of morality?

In other words, any index of "real well being" of this sort would be simply an index saying "I approve of this social trend" or "that social trend is really nasty!", and then put it in mathematical gard as if that makes it "objective". It is, in fact, precisely for such reasons that the GDP does NOT include such vague measures of "real well being" in the first place.

CBL4
7th September 2005, 11:44 AM
Per capita GDP is obviously not a perfect measure but it is probably the best single indicator of well being. It's greatest advantage is that it is not very subjective.

Also having money gives people options to pursue whatever happiness they want for themselves and their family. Some may choose more education, while other may choose lots of toys and other may prefer extra leisure in lieu of money. It does not really matter as long as people have the options .

Small differences in GDP (e.g. $15,000 vs. $17,000) are not particularly significant but large one (e.g. $5000 vs. $15,000) per year are. Also the rate of change in per capita GDP are quite important. The difference between a 1% per year vs. a 2% per year is huge when measured over a decade or two.

ETA: If a nation has adequate wealth its population are more likely to be able to choose other things that increase well being. They may choose to improve the environment, pensions or health care. Rich countries can do all of the above while poor countries cannot do much except try to keep their citizens alive.

CBL

Suddenly
7th September 2005, 12:07 PM
Originally posted by Skeptic
The problem is, this "wellbeing" index will depend crucially on who puts what into it.

Take the enviorment: is building a neighborhood where a swamp used to be a GOOD thing because it rescues habitable land from the wilderness, or a BAD thing because it destroys the pristine natural balance for short-sighted economic gains? Or take church attendance: is it GOOD that less people are in church, showing people are throwing off ancient superstitions, or is it BAD that less people are in church, showing the collapse of morality?

It depends. Are Republicans doing it? :p

In other words, any index of "real well being" of this sort would be simply an index saying "I approve of this social trend" or "that social trend is really nasty!", and then put it in mathematical gard as if that makes it "objective". It is, in fact, precisely for such reasons that the GDP does NOT include such vague measures of "real well being" in the first place.

Not to mention that expanded GNP provides both the ability to worry about a whole additional set of things (I.E. all y'all spending time here crapping about Israel etc. here instead of having to be out somewhere trying to spear a boar to feed your kids) and greater expectations as to what life should be.

Expanded wealth only makes one happy if one bucks human nature and is satisfied with one's lot.... Not even realistic however, and wealth is always considered on a sliding scale. Most of whom are considered "struggling" today have wealth well beyond what the poor of 200 years ago could dream of... At some point "I need" and "I want" get mixed up....

Manny
7th September 2005, 12:35 PM
Just fine, thanks. How do you feel?