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Frank Newgent
18th April 2003, 09:47 PM
Are you a good Iraqi? If so, you ought to have no problem with this quiz:


1. In ancient times the land area now known as modern Iraq was nearly equivalent to:

A. Assyria
B. Babylon
C. Mesopotamia
D. Kurdistan


2. Which of the following is true:

A. Likely Saddam successor Ahmad Chalabi was sentenced April 9, 1992, to 22 years hard labor by a Jordanian state security court on 31 charges of embezzlement, theft, misuse of depositor funds and speculation with the Jordanian dinar.

B. American forces have "bombed the heck" out of at least two of the bases of the main armed Iranian opposition group in Iraq, a Mujahedeen group 150 members of the US Congress from both parties have described as an effective source of pressure against Iran's government and described as "pro-democracy, antifundamentalist, antiterrorist, helpful to the U.S. in providing information about the activities of the Iranian regime, and advocates of a secular government in Iran".

C. The retired American general chosen by the US to run Iraq's interim government, Jay Garner, went on a 10-day visit to Israel in 2000, organized by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, after which he endorsed a statement by the group praising the Israeli military for showing "remarkable restraint" in dealing with Palestinian violence.

D. Kuwaiti princesses once wore pro-Saddam T-shirts in appreciation for his services in keeping Khomeini's Iran at bay during the the Iran-Iraq war.

E. All of the above.


3. Bechtel Corporation, which won the first major Iraq reconstruction contract, is best known for:

A. Its plan to build a pipeline to carry Iraqi crude oil through Jordan to the Red Sea port of Aqaba, promoted by now Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld while working as a special U.S. envoy in the Middle East, who traveled to Baghdad in 1983 to discuss the project with Saddam Hussein and Iraq's Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz.

B. Asking a Suffolk Superior Court judge for a preliminary injunction blocking the release of federal audits of Bechtel that allegedly detail massive cost overruns on the $14.6 billion project known as the "Big Dig" currently on file with the Massachusetts Turnpike Authority and the Massachusetts Highway Department.

C. Building the first Indian nuclear plant at Tarapur, the largest nuclear facility in Asia, allowing for the detonation of India’s first atomic bomb using plutonium produced by the Tarapur reactor

D. Its installation, in 1977, at the San Onofre (CA) Nuclear Generating Station, of the 420-ton reactor vessel of Unit 2 one hundred and eighty degrees backwards, which went unnoticed for seven months.

E. All of the above.


4. On July 25, 1990, eight days before the Iraqi invasion of Kuwait, a quiet, largely unreported meeting took place between Saddam Hussein and U.S. Ambassador to Iraq April Glaspie at the Presidential Palace in Baghdad, which has since been destroyed by the war. Which of the following was said:

A. "I have direct instructions from President Bush to improve our relations with Iraq. We have considerable sympathy for your quest for higher oil prices, the immediate cause of your confrontation with Kuwait. (pause) As you know, I have lived here for years and admire your extraordinary efforts to rebuild your country. We know you need funds. We understand that, and our opinion is that you should have the opportunity to rebuild your country. (pause) We can see that you have deployed massive numbers of troops in the south. Normally that would be none of our business, but when this happens in the context of your other threats against Kuwait, then it would be reasonable for us to be concerned. For this reason, I have received an instruction to ask you, in the spirit of friendship - not confrontation - regarding your intentions: Why are your troops massed so very close to Kuwait's borders?"

B. "As you know, for years now I have made every effort to reach a settlement on our dispute with Kuwait. There is to be a meeting in two days; I am prepared to give negotiations only this one more brief chance. (pause) When we [the Iraqis] meet [with the Kuwaitis] and we see there is hope, then nothing will happen. But if we are unable to find a solution, then it will be natural that Iraq will not accept death."

C. "What solutions would be acceptable?"

D. "If we could keep the whole of the Shatt al Arab - our strategic goal in our war with Iran - we will make concessions (to the Kuwaitis). But, if we are forced to choose between keeping half of the Shatt and the whole of Iraq (which, in Saddam's view, includes Kuwait) then we will give up all of the Shatt to defend our claims on Kuwait to keep the whole of Iraq in the shape we wish it to be. (pause) What is the United States' opinion on this?"

E. "We have no opinion on your Arab-Arab conflicts, such as your dispute with Kuwait. Secretary (of State James) Baker has directed me to emphasize the instruction, first given to Iraq in the 1960's that the Kuwait issue is not associated with America."
F. All of the above.


ANSWERS
1: C
2: E
3: E
4: F

corplinx
18th April 2003, 10:38 PM
Aqua Teen Hunger Force is about a group of detectives who just happen to be human-sized food items living in South Jersey. They are a pistachio milkshake, a bag of fries, and a meatball who solve (or at least attempt) mysteries every once in a while. Together, the ATHF solve the plaguing problems of the New Jersey suburbs whenever they get around to it.

Troll
19th April 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by corplinx
Aqua Teen Hunger Force is about a group of detectives who just happen to be human-sized food items living in South Jersey. They are a pistachio milkshake, a bag of fries, and a meatball who solve (or at least attempt) mysteries every once in a while. Together, the ATHF solve the plaguing problems of the New Jersey suburbs whenever they get around to it.

Technically that's not entirely true. Frylock solves things. Even Carl sometimes figures things out. Shake and Meatwad generally create or add to the things that need solved

Frank Newgent
19th April 2003, 06:43 AM
Originally posted by corplinx
ATHF

Incorrect answers. You are a bad Iraqi.

subgenius
19th April 2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by corplinx
Aqua Teen Hunger Force is about a group of detectives who just happen to be human-sized food items living in South Jersey. They are a pistachio milkshake, a bag of fries, and a meatball who solve (or at least attempt) mysteries every once in a while. Together, the ATHF solve the plaguing problems of the New Jersey suburbs whenever they get around to it.
Pull the wool over your own eyes--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs
You will pay to know what you really think--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs
Act like a dumbsh*t, and they will treat you as an equal--J.R. "Bob" Dobbs

Why spam an intelligent post, why not just ignore anyone who challenges your belief structure?

aerocontrols
19th April 2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by corplinx
Aqua Teen Hunger Force is about a group of detectives who just happen to be human-sized food items living in South Jersey. They are a pistachio milkshake, a bag of fries, and a meatball who solve (or at least attempt) mysteries every once in a while. Together, the ATHF solve the plaguing problems of the New Jersey suburbs whenever they get around to it.


This is innappropriate.

If you don't want to reply intelligently, don't reply at all.

Denise
19th April 2003, 09:12 PM
I thought we went through this already! If you don't have something to say that is at least remotely relevent to the topic at hand please don't post to the thread. I wouldn't like it if someone spammed a thread I started with nonsense. Please think about this. Nice quiz!

corplinx
20th April 2003, 01:17 AM
Originally posted by subgenius

Why spam an intelligent post, why not just ignore anyone who challenges your belief structure?

I didn't think it was that intelligent, that's why. I figured it was a thread for silly posts after reading the first one. He covered the big evil Bechtel corporation. I guess he left out the obligatory haliburton question on the quiz since you spammed your haliburton conspiracy theories over several threads in the past.

corplinx
20th April 2003, 01:19 AM
Originally posted by Denise
I thought we went through this already!

Sorry Denise, I didnt read those JK/spamming/countermeasures thread to see what the outcome was.

corplinx
20th April 2003, 01:31 AM
The great thing about the 4. quiz question is that is covered by both the right wing new world order woo-woo web sites and the left wing corporate world order woo-woo sites.

I take it for what it was. She spoke in vague terms to Saddam. The only transcript of this meeting was from the Iraqis. We don't know how much they added/altered. (like "Saddam smiles", i mean hello, they transcribed his facial features?). However, the supposed US greenlighting of the first Gulf War fails skepticism. There is simply no credible evidence.

If you post woo-woo site stuff here, from now on I will ignore it. It takes all kinds.

Denise
20th April 2003, 02:10 AM
Originally posted by corplinx
The great thing about the 4. quiz question is that is covered by both the right wing new world order woo-woo web sites and the left wing corporate world order woo-woo sites.

I take it for what it was. She spoke in vague terms to Saddam. The only transcript of this meeting was from the Iraqis. We don't know how much they added/altered. (like "Saddam smiles", i mean hello, they transcribed his facial features?). However, the supposed US greenlighting of the first Gulf War fails skepticism. There is simply no credible evidence.

If you post woo-woo site stuff here, from now on I will ignore it. It takes all kinds.

Than take the time to show it's woo woo stuff. Is that hard? I think not.

Frank Newgent
20th April 2003, 06:39 AM
Originally posted by Frank Newgent

ANSWERS
1: C
2: E
3: E
4: F

Originally posted by corplinx

ATHF

It is unfortunate that you simply do not like question #4. That was the only one you got right.

Originally posted by corplinx

I figured it was a thread for silly posts after reading the first one.

Assyria was a good guess, Corplinx. And your selection of A corresponded with the choices available. Did you think it was silly because it begins with the word Ass?

subgenius
20th April 2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by corplinx


I didn't think it was that intelligent, that's why. I figured it was a thread for silly posts after reading the first one. He covered the big evil Bechtel corporation. I guess he left out the obligatory haliburton question on the quiz since you spammed your haliburton conspiracy theories over several threads in the past.
First, your momma taught you that just cause Johnny does it doesn't make it right.
Second, I have said repeatedly I don't think its a conspiracy.
Let's move on and try not to distract this thread from its topic.
Instead of just saying you don't think this extremely intelligent thread is intelligent, let's hear your factual refutation.

corplinx
20th April 2003, 09:48 AM
Originally posted by Frank Newgent

It is unfortunate that you simply do not like question #4. That was the only one you got right.


I guess I'm not a good Iraqi. :(

davefoc
20th April 2003, 11:15 AM
Perhaps I don't know the background here, but it looks like Frank Newgent made several reasoned points and I was looking forward to some reasoned responses. Instead the thread is sabatoged. Because some people disagreed with the points and couldn't take the trouble to respond intelligently?

Perhaps because the points had been made and discussed before? Then why not just post the links?

I am a little confused by the answer to question one. Isn't Babylon generally considered to have existed on the land of modern day Iraq. These links state or show this:

http://galileoandeinstein.physics.virginia.edu/lectures/babylon.html
http://www-groups.dcs.st-and.ac.uk/history/Diagrams/Babylon_Map.jpeg

Edited to add.
Oh I get it. Babylon was a city not an area. Mesopotamia describes an area.

corplinx
20th April 2003, 04:51 PM
Originally posted by davefoc
but it looks like Frank Newgent made several reasoned points

Which are?

davefoc
20th April 2003, 08:59 PM
Corplinx said:
Which are?

I think he was making points by listing what he felt were provocative pieces of information.

Some of the points that I inferred from his listed facts.

Inferred point:
A likely candidate for the new Iraqi leader shares some of Saddams ethics issues so one of the justifications for the war, a better government for the Iraqis, may not happen if all that happens is one corrupt leader is switched for another.
Newgent's fact:
Likely Saddam successor Ahmad Chalabi was sentenced April 9, 1992, to 22 years hard labor by a Jordanian state security court on 31 charges of embezzlement, theft, misuse of depositor funds and speculation with the Jordanian dinar.

Inferred point:
The American government is often hypocritical, supporting one side then another when it suits its purposes. The driving force of American foreign policy is self interest, protestations of noble motives for their foreign policy are not to be believed because of their obvious hypocracy.
Newgent's fact:
American forces have "bombed the heck" out of at least two of the bases of the main armed Iranian opposition group in Iraq, a Mujahedeen group 150 members of the US Congress from both parties have described as an effective source of pressure against Iran's government and described as "pro-democracy, antifundamentalist, antiterrorist, helpful to the U.S. in providing information about the activities of the Iranian regime, and advocates of a secular government in Iran".

Inferred point:
American policy in the middle east is always driven by one overriding goal: Do what Israel wants us to do.
Newgent's fact:
The retired American general chosen by the US to run Iraq's interim government, Jay Garner, went on a 10-day visit to Israel in 2000, organized by the Jewish Institute for National Security Affairs, after which he endorsed a statement by the group praising the Israeli military for showing "remarkable restraint" in dealing with Palestinian violence.

Inferred point:
A major driver for the war was America's greedy lust for the Iraqis oil. Choosing an exploitive, incompetent company like Bechtel known for shady tactics is proof of this:
Newgent's facts:
See 3A,3B,3C in his opening.

Inferred point:
America gave Hussein a green light to invade Kuwait because it wanted to crush him in a war and grab the Iraqi oil.
Newgent's facts:
See 4A,4B,4C and 4D in his opening

The points above are what I thought that Newgent was driving at with the facts he listed. My apologies to Newgent if I have widely missed the mark.

A great number of people, Americans included, would agree fairly strongly with them. I am not one of them. But there is evidence to support them and I repeat what I said earlier, I don't think he did or said anything to suggest he didn't deserve a civil response.

Frank Newgent
21st April 2003, 08:47 AM
Thanks davefoc for a thoughtful reply.

Rather than listing facts intended to express outrage I wrote what I found to be the most astonishing. The fun continues when such observations prompt an unnecessary defense of political territory.

This is why I don't believe a vast conspiracy is at work here. How could you have such a thing when all of the actors seem to be such ham-handed incompetents?

Any Iraqi worth his salt would know this, of course.

Skeptical Greg
21st April 2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by davefoc
Perhaps I don't know the background here, but it looks like Frank Newgent made several reasoned points and I was looking forward to some reasoned responses. Instead the thread is sabatoged. Because some people disagreed with the points and couldn't take the trouble to respond intelligently?



Since the ' correct ' answers were given so quickly, I would assume our thread starter wasn't really interested in anyone else's opinion or knowledge, and just wanted to pontificate a bit.

The fact that corplinx manged to hijack the podium so easily, without much else in the way of discussion, of the matters initially presented, my assumtion seems to be holding up..

So, Frank Newgent,
What was/is your point? Is Saddam really a nice guy, that no one understands, and Iraq would be better off if we had just left things the way they were?

P.S.

Just in round figures, how many ' TRUE ' Iraqis, do you think would have made 100 on your little quiz?

Frank Newgent
21st April 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by Diogenes

Since the ' correct ' answers were given so quickly, I would assume our thread starter wasn't really interested in anyone else's opinion or knowledge, and just wanted to pontificate a bit.

Pontificate? Here? Who would do such a thing?

Assist me in knowing how one might give correct quiz answers more slowly.

The fact that corplinx manged to hijack the podium so easily, without much else in the way of discussion, of the matters initially presented, my assumtion seems to be holding up..
You are blaming who for what here? I might add that I was correct in not deploying vast armies of sock puppets to engage one another on this topic. You seem already confused by a single narrative line.

So, Frank Newgent,
What was/is your point? Is Saddam really a nice guy, that no one understands, and Iraq would be better off if we had just left things the way they were?
Rather than listing facts intended to express outrage I wrote what I found to be the most astonishing. The fun continues when such observations prompt an unnecessary defense of political territory.

This is why I don't believe a vast conspiracy is at work here. How could you have such a thing when all of the actors seem to be such ham-handed incompetents?

Just in round figures, how many ' TRUE ' Iraqis, do you think would have made 100 on your little quiz?
I don't know. Who do you think will take the Stanley Cup this year?

Skeptical Greg
21st April 2003, 12:08 PM
:D