Should Ghost movie be rated or banned?

[Jyera]

There is no such things as ghost as far as I know.
But there is fear.

I find movies about ghosts meaningless and counter-educational.
It encourage belief in the paranormal.
It feeds the brain with fear of the unknown.
It perpetual the existence of ghost when there is none.

I do not understand why, the people who like to see ghost movie are those who are scared of ghost.

I feel it should be rated, taxed, censored or perhaps even banned.

If it is impossible to stop it due to market demand, I thought the movie industry do have a social responsibility to compensate the society for perpetuating ignorance.

What is your opinion?

[c4ts]

In my opinion, I think you should ask Pillory. Pillory knows all.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by c4ts
In my opinion, I think you should ask Pillory. Pillory knows all. Does he knows all about ghost? or does he knows all about banning movies?

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
I feel it should be rated, taxed, censored or perhaps even banned.

SNIP

What is your opinion?

Never, ever, ever censor. Never.

Feel free to condemn, mock, vilify or debunk nonsense ideas, but just censoring what you believe is wrong is a horrible precedent to set.

[Ersby]

No "Ring"? No M.R.James? No Hamlet? No Scooby-Doo?

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Never, ever, ever censor. Never.

Feel free to condemn, mock, vilify or debunk nonsense ideas, but just censoring what you believe is wrong is a horrible precedent to set. Agreed.

And I would like some evidence for the notion that movies encourage belief in the paranormal.

Censoring ghost movies... that would mean no Sixth Sense. :(

[El_Spectre]

My favorite hat (here bowlderized) just says "Fark Censorship" in big red letters. No one has had the guts to give me grief for it :)

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by m0nngis
Censoring ghost movies... that would mean no Sixth Sense. :(

Oh yeah... and you'll get my "Alien" Special Edition DVD from me when you pry my cold dead fingers from it :)

[Jyera]

Originally posted by Ersby
No "Ring"? No M.R.James? No Hamlet? No Scooby-Doo?
That happens if there is a Ban on ghost movie.

You could still have whatever you want if the movie is Rated but not restricted.

I should think it is perfectly harmless to have film/movie Rated with a warning of "Paranormal Content".

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
That happens if there is a Ban on ghost movie.

You could still have whatever you want if the movie is Rated but not restricted.

I should think it is perfectly harmless to have film/movie Rated with a warning of "Paranormal Content".

OK, here's a situation:

The world is now run by psychic wannabees and they want to ban (or merely "brand") skeptical ideas (or movies, websites, radio, etc).

Still seem harmless?

I have a big BIG problem with religion. But I would never suggest banning or 'rating' it. Freedom of speech can be annoying, but damn if it isn't better than the alternative.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Never, ever, ever censor. Never.

Feel free to condemn, mock, vilify or debunk nonsense ideas, but just censoring what you believe is wrong is a horrible precedent to set. But then with viewers covering their eyes when the ghosts appear, censoring the ghost from the film won't make much negative impact. :) just joking

I understand what you mean and agree censorship might set
some undesired precedence.

But I would think the actual act of censorship is decided based on local and cultural influence.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
But I would think the actual act of censorship is decided based on local and cultural influence.

True. And I guess that makes sense, at some point the group needs to be able to prohibit some actions: Murder, rape, theft... but flighty-thinking is probably not a good one for the list.

Besides (no matter how unlikely) we might be wrong!

[Jyera]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
OK, here's a situation:

The world is now run by psychic wannabees and they want to ban (or merely "brand") skeptical ideas (or movies, websites, radio, etc).

Still seem harmless?

I have a big BIG problem with religion. But I would never suggest banning or 'rating' it. Freedom of speech can be annoying, but damn if it isn't better than the alternative.
I understand your point.
But there are such things as lobby groups. Whichever side acted and caused a change for their benefit wins.
The balance between two opposing groups are usually a dynamic equlibrium, not a static ones.

Rating do not affect freedom of speech if the restriction is not there. I have no issue with religion.
Nor their ghost. I just have not seen a ghost.
I really would not mind a real ghost in a documentary, nor even in a real movie. But with non-restrictive Rating, there really should not be any problem.

Further more why should ghost be scary?
Why must we create more fear?
Which is why I made this thread focus only on "ghost" in movies. Especially those that are meant to create fear.

I'm against fear, I'm against perpetuating non-existence ghost.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
But with non-restrictive Rating, there really should not be any problem.

Then what is the point of the rating? To express displeasure that someone else believes in ghosts?

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
I have no issue with religion.
Nor their ghost. I just have not seen a ghost.

I understand. My intention was to mention something I find abhorrent, and that I still don't wanna ban it.

[Mid]

Originally posted by m0nngis
Agreed.

And I would like some evidence for the notion that movies encourage belief in the paranormal.

Censoring ghost movies... that would mean no Sixth Sense. :(

There would also be no Ghost Ship, Thirteen Ghosts etc. so there could be some upsides :D

However to agree with a number of other people I feel that censorship is nearly always counter productive. Anyway I some what sceptical about the reinforcing message that these moves are alleged to have, surely the special effects and general liveliness, for lack of a better word, of ghosts in these type of movies make the tales of everyday hauntings seems somewhat pathetic and unimpressive.

[Alkatran]

I'm sorry, but if someone goes to the movies and is convinced the ghosts exist, I wouldn't worry about them having not started believing in the first place.

[chillzero]

Why would you want to place such limits on the imagination? Especially in days such as these when we can see convincing dinosaurs saunter alongside jeeps, or superheroes fly through the air. The special effects and facilities for directors nowadays are amazing.

For myself, I am a freak for horror stories. I love Stephen King, Robert McCammon and a wealth of others. I write a little as well. I love watching a film that scares me to death. It doesn't mean in any way that I believe what I see - it's a movie, after all.

You cannot possibly censor films just because some people can't distinguish between fact and fiction. If you do, then you need to basically stop all soap operas, and established programs - because well established villains get hate mail from people who can't understand that an actor is simply that. Just look at the ridiuclous amounts of wages actors get compared to medics, paramedics, policemen, firemen - all those people who do actual work - you know, saving lives and stuff.

There is a serious imbalance in the world, where entertainment is valued higher than most other things. But, you should never try and restrict the imagination, or deprive viewers of an outstanding piece of work, because some films are indeed masterpieces.

[LW]

Originally posted by Jyera
Does he knows all about ghost? or does he knows all about banning movies?

Yes.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

It's a movie. It's entertainment. If people are going to take a fiction movie seriously, they have bigger problems to deal with.

~~ Paul

[patnray]

Originally posted by Paul C. Anagnostopoulos
It's a movie. It's entertainment. If people are going to take a fiction movie seriously, they have bigger problems to deal with.

~~ Paul
The problem is that most people, including many producers and directors, seem to take the wrong PARTS of ghost movies seriously. The ghosts and monsters are metaphors for our personal or societal fears. Frankenstein is an expression paranoia over the rising of influence of science, for example. By focusing only on the paranormal aspects, some people miss the point completely. I love to ask these people "So what do you think seeing dead people is a metaphor for?"

OTOH, ghost stories, like roller coasters, aren't very good if they don't scare the bejezuss out of you...

[UrsulaV]

As any child knows, forbidding something only makes it interesting.

If we banned ghost movies, people'd want to see them a lot more--and while now we can dismiss these things are mere drivel, if they were banned, people could argue that they must be banned because people don't want us to know the truth!

One of the great tools of psychics is an air of mystery. "They don't want you to know!" Ban stuff, and you give them unbelieveable amounts of credibility.

And that's just the practical argument--as an artist who paints a lot of stuff that isn't even close to real, but doesn't believe in it, you're startin' to cut real close to my turf when you ban fantastical movies, and anybody telling me I can't paint ghosts is merely going to insure that I paint nothing but for a week, just to prove that you can't tell me what to do.*


*I'm a small and petty person, yes. I'm fine with that.

[luchog]

Can we at least ban Ghost, because it stars Patrick Swayze and Demi Moore? http://forums.randi.org/images/icons/icon13.gifhttp://forums.randi.org/images/icons/icon13.gif

[Jyera]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Then what is the point of the rating? To express displeasure that someone else believes in ghosts?
Yes.
More options here:
(1) Express displeasure someone else believes in ghosts.
(2) To educate subtly that ghost is paranormal.
(3) To act to reduce fear.
(4) To allow growing population of skeptics to know which movie to avoid, if they want to make a statement through action.
(5) To know which director believe in ghost, which one goes to entertain. Which one seeks to instill fear in the population.
(6) To give critical thinking parents info to help decision making.
(7) Rating of a movie invites educational public debate.

It is okay to disagree with me.
But take your pick. Craft your own reasons.
I just like you to be on my side. :)

[Jyera]

Adults goes to movies to feed their fear of ghost.
And the fear make the ghost stay alive.
It is addictive, I would say.

To introduce a concept of a ghost that you need to fear,
to a child, it is like introducing addictive drugs. IT may be very difficult to kick the fear.

Unfortunately, while we never meet a real ghost,
it is impossible to avoid the concept of a ghost on our society.
So ghost will continue to "exist".

If everyone believes in ghost but no one fear ghost, I'd not feel so bad about it.

[Jyera]

cabby,

Do you fear ghost when walking alone in a dark street?
Do you think watching many scary ghost movie make you more scared or less scared?

[KelvinG]

There is this world we call fiction, where ghosts, goblins, sorcerors, wookies, and other creatures of fantasy are allowed to exist without being subjected to ridiculous questions like "shoud ghost movies be rated or banned?"

IT'S A MOVIE!!! It's not real. It's a fabricated world meant to entertain.

This is the kind of thinking that makes us normal people laugh at the fundies who scream indignantly when Harry Potter screens at the local cineplex. Let's not stoop to their level of extremism.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by KelvinG
There is this world we call fiction, where ghosts, goblins, sorcerors, wookies, and other creatures of fantasy are allowed to exist without being subjected to ridiculous questions like "shoud ghost movies be rated or banned?" Noted your views. By the way, I'm equally capable of mocking censorship and movie ratings.

Sci-Fiction and Fantasy Fiction is fair and fine with me.
There are enough markers to indicate it is fabricated.
A cartoon ghost is not scary so it should be okay.
A happy ghost is a bliss.

Movies are served to the masses. And it has it's power.
The difference between a piece of creative movie work vs a movie produced with an agenda can be very subtle.
Originally posted by KelvinG
IT'S A MOVIE!!! It's not real. It's a fabricated world meant to entertain. Agree. But some times it also perpetuate ignorance and feed some ugly dark spot within the individual.

I'm sure you know what is pornography? It is just movie with fabricated storyline, fabricated relationship, and all the ****ing is just paid acting, and feint enjoyment. It's just entertainment for the WHOLE family including children. And if it does feature incest, we know they are really not related. I'm sure you disapprove of this.

I know your context is fantasy and science fiction. And even normal fiction is just entertainment. But movie do have effect on people. Thats my point.

And specifically in this thread I'm against Fear of ghost.
If someone gives me a study showing that fear of ghost arises out of other factors rather than movies, I would be delighted to hear.
Originally posted by KelvinG
This is the kind of thinking that makes us normal people laugh at the fundies who scream indignantly when Harry Potter screens at the local cineplex. Let's not stoop to their level of extremism. Ok. Nevetheless, it is up to the fundies to choose their action. But they do take action. And that is to be respected, not mocked.

The most devastating actions, are those executed slowly over a long time, eroding you bit by bit. Unless action are also taken on the opposing side. It is not in dynamic equlibrium.

[Ersby]

Originally posted by Jyera
cabby,

Do you fear ghost when walking alone in a dark street?
Do you think watching many scary ghost movie make you more scared or less scared?

Shall we ban the news too? Or police requests for information about killers and rapists on the loose?

Tell you what, let's ban rollercoasters, because they exploit people's fear of going really fast in cars.

Is there any point to this thread? Any point at all?

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
I'm sure you know what is pornography? It is just movie with fabricated storyline, fabricated relationship, [SNIP]


Yeah, I've heard of it... From my friends... in church group...

I think there is a significant difference between warning about a fundamental, general quality of a piece of art, and labelling each tiny aspect that you disagree with.

For example: I listen to music that is often profane. I'm OK with the "Explicit Lyrics" sticker, but if they then added a "warning, this record criticizes the government" or "warning, you may not agree with EVERY LITTLE THING in these lyrics", that's something different.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Ersby
Is there any point to this thread? Any point at all?

Eh, it's akin to threads from extreme vegans who debate the morality of eating meat.

Some folks confuse "what I like" with "what should be allowed".

[m0nngis]

What KelvingG said.



Originally posted by Jyera
the people who like to see ghost movie are those who are scared of ghost. Let me pull a CFL here.

Evidence, please?


Originally posted by Frank Zappa
The establishment of a rating system, voluntary or otherwise, opens the door to an endless parade of moral quality control programs based on things certain Christians do not like. What if the next bunch of Washington wives demands a large yellow "J" on all material written or performed by Jews, in order to save helpless children from exposure to concealed Zionist doctrine?
Source (http://uweb.superlink.net/~jdandrea/shrg99-529/index.html)

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by Jyera
(4) To allow growing population of skeptics to know which movie to avoid, if they want to make a statement through action. Heh. It isn't OK for skeptics to enjoy fiction that involves paranormal stuff. Duly noted.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by m0nngis
Heh. It isn't OK for skeptics to enjoy fiction that involves paranormal stuff. Duly noted.

Perhaps we can add this to the "True Skeptic" canon?

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Jyera
cabby,

Do you fear ghost when walking alone in a dark street?


No. I fear rapists and muggers when alone in a dark street.

Originally posted by Jyera
Do you think watching many scary ghost movie make you more scared or less scared?

No. Movies give me a perfectly legal adrenaline rush, and sometimes make me think a little too, and enhance my imaginative skills.
Watching the news makes me more scared. I have learnt hard lessons in my life, and found that the real world holds a lot more to fear than the projected world of spiritualism. I used to believe in ghosts, spirits, gods and all sorts, but even than I still distinguished a fantasy movie from real life. Just as I know soap operas are fiction. As I said above, many people can't make the distinction. Movies won't make any difference here.

I know people who believe that 'The Matrix' is an exposee of the actual situation. I knew one person who admitted if she ever saw a particular actor on the street that she would spit on him - because of the character he played in a soap opera.

I think what you are advocating is silly and impractical, and takes those steps toward a restrictive nanny state: making no allowances for some people's intelligence, and defining entertainment as reality.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Jyera said:
Agree. But some times it also perpetuate ignorance and feed some ugly dark spot within the individual.

It is not against the law to be ignorant. It is not against the law to be superstitious. There is no way to define laws to accomplish what you want without accomplishing other things you don't want. Give it up.

~~ Paul

[Soapy Sam]

I think the important distinction to make here is the age of the viewer. As a kid I remember being seriously scared by ghost movies. I was probably in my mid teens before I could view any such with equanimity, though I lied about it at the time.

I think this is not atypical.

The scariest movie I can remember is Walt Disney's "Sleeping Beauty", which I saw at the age of five , or thereabouts. It certainly would not scare me now, but it terrified me then.

Given that DVD players now let youngsters watch scary movies at home, I doubt any restricted rating system would have much effect, but were I a parent, I would probably impose the sort of ban Jyera suggests.

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
I think the important distinction to make here is the age of the viewer. As a kid I remember being seriously scared by ghost movies. I was probably in my mid teens before I could view any such with equanimity, though I lied about it at the time.

I think this is not atypical.

The scariest movie I can remember is Walt Disney's "Sleeping Beauty", which I saw at the age of five , or thereabouts. It certainly would not scare me now, but it terrified me then.

Given that DVD players now let youngsters watch scary movies at home, I doubt any restricted rating system would have much effect, but were I a parent, I would probably impose the sort of ban Jyera suggests.

But the suggestion here has nothing to do with how scary the films are. It is entirely to 'protect' the gullible who cannot distinguish fiction and entertainment from real life and fact.

[Soapy Sam]

And who fits that description better than a child?

[Francois Tremblay]

Originally posted by Jyera
There is no such things as ghost as far as I know.
But there is fear.

I find movies about ghosts meaningless and counter-educational.
It encourage belief in the paranormal.
It feeds the brain with fear of the unknown.
It perpetual the existence of ghost when there is none.

I do not understand why, the people who like to see ghost movie are those who are scared of ghost.

I feel it should be rated, taxed, censored or perhaps even banned.

If it is impossible to stop it due to market demand, I thought the movie industry do have a social responsibility to compensate the society for perpetuating ignorance.

What is your opinion?

I think you're an anti-free speech ********ter who should let people watch whatever movies they damn want. If the government banned movies, the first to go would probably be the ones on our side.

[Overmannr]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Never, ever, ever censor. Never.

Feel free to condemn, mock, vilify or debunk nonsense ideas, but just censoring what you believe is wrong is a horrible precedent to set.

Very well said. I will memorize this quote and use it in my every day life.
furthermore I think fiction is great. Your censorship would also censor all of disney since animals cannot talk and there is no such thing as magic. It would censor harry potter, ninja turtles, star trek and any mention of wepons of mass destruction. I think that line should simply not be drwn. Ghost are fun to keep in stories. Besides, there are plenty of people that still, you know, believe in them.

[chillzero]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
And who fits that description better than a child?

Which is precisely why age related censorship already exists. As a 30something mature adult, I do not believe anyone has the right to impose their opinion on my desire to watch (or not watch) paranormal based films.

I can watch and enjoy a piece of fiction such as 'The Sixth Sense', but why have that experience removed just because someone else might watch it and all of a sudden might change their entire world view to include the possibility of the existence of ghosts? Which is what the OP is advocating, in my opinion. I think people will have a belief in ghosts before ever experiencing a film like that - it is hardly a rare concept. So rating or banning films is not doing anything to affect the initiation of that belief.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by cabby
But the suggestion here has nothing to do with how scary the films are. It is entirely to 'protect' the gullible who cannot distinguish fiction and entertainment from real life and fact.
This thread is more about Fear than Ghost.
As I said, if a there are happy , not-scary ghost movie I'm supportive.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by cabby
No. I fear rapists and muggers when alone in a dark street.

Awareness-of-danger and Fear are two different thing.

Awareness-of-danger is sensible.
I believe you have awareness-of-danger.

Fear is not sensible. It cripples.
If you have fear you might not be willing to go through a dark street to go home in order to be safe.

I have no doubt about your sensibility.
But there are people who are crippled by irrational fear.

Originally posted by cabby
...snipe... Watching the news makes me more scared. I have learnt hard lessons in my life, and found that the real world holds a lot more to fear than the projected world of spiritualism. ...snipe... I bet you are NOT crippled by irrational fear when you hear the news. Won't you agree with me that you have a sense of danger? And that the world is a dangerous place. (not fearful).

Originally posted by cabby
I know people who believe that 'The Matrix' is an exposee of the actual situation. I knew one person who admitted if she ever saw a particular actor on the street that she would spit on him - because of the character he played in a soap opera.
I agree with you this is wrong.

Originally posted by cabby
I think what you are advocating is silly and impractical, and takes those steps toward a restrictive nanny state: making no allowances for some people's intelligence, and defining entertainment as reality. Would you consider attempt to bar ID (intelligent Design) to be taught in school, restrictive and moves a country towards a nanny state?

Fear is something many people wield. Kings, Emperor, Gods, Dictators. They love irrational fear (in others whom they control).

Tell me what is practical to reduce irrational fear. To keep thing very very managable and specific, tell me how to make people less affected by the fear of ghost.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by Francois Tremblay
I think you're an anti-free speech ********ter who should let people watch whatever movies they damn want. If the government banned movies, the first to go would probably be the ones on our side. You might be right, that the first to go are the ones on our side?

I'm not anti-free speech. I believe there must be responsibility in speech. I feel that many scary ghost Movie are just out to make money. They make ghost movie because of the market demand. But by doing so, they are also responsible for feeding fuel to perpetuate the fear of unknown and fear of ghost.

I'm open to other proposed way to reduce fear if you feel Banning and Censorship are very bad.

Taxes? Rating? "Surgeon's warning"? or Something of the sort.
Don't just prove me wrong? There is no restriction to creative ideas here.

I appeal to all to give this thread something new to chew on, besides saying banning and censorship are bad.
Everyone knows they have limitation including me.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
I'm open to other proposed way to reduce fear if you feel Banning and Censorship are very bad.

Howsabout let-adults-be-adults and not try to coddle them?

[Moondragon69]

Originally posted by Jyera
There is no such things as ghost as far as I know.
But there is fear.

I find movies about ghosts meaningless and counter-educational.
It encourage belief in the paranormal.
It feeds the brain with fear of the unknown.
It perpetual the existence of ghost when there is none.

I do not understand why, the people who like to see ghost movie are those who are scared of ghost.

I feel it should be rated, taxed, censored or perhaps even banned.

If it is impossible to stop it due to market demand, I thought the movie industry do have a social responsibility to compensate the society for perpetuating ignorance.

What is your opinion?


So because you don't think something is real the stories shouldn't be made into movies?

Are you saying movies should be based on fact only? No fiction is allowed? No comic book movies, no science fiction, no situation comedies, no fictional dramas, no action films based on fictional novels? NO ZOMBIE MOVIES? Because it's not real?

All those kinds of films generate somekind of emotional response from the viewer. Its called entertainment.

If you don't care for THAT kind of entertainment then pass it by, but don't force your stodgy opinion on society as a whole.

I find the idea of banning ghost movies to be a rediculous notion to say the least. I LOVE GHOST MOVIES.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Howsabout let-adults-be-adults and not try to coddle them? Agreeable.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by Soapy Sam
I think the important distinction to make here is the age of the viewer. As a kid I remember being seriously scared by ghost movies. I was probably in my mid teens before I could view any such with equanimity, though I lied about it at the time.

I think this is not atypical.

The scariest movie I can remember is Walt Disney's "Sleeping Beauty", which I saw at the age of five , or thereabouts. It certainly would not scare me now, but it terrified me then.

Given that DVD players now let youngsters watch scary movies at home, I doubt any restricted rating system would have much effect, but were I a parent, I would probably impose the sort of ban Jyera suggests.
Agreeable. My children went to a haunted house at a school Funfair and regretted it. The haunted house was crappy. But the queue was long, so they let you watch a ghost movie while you waited. They were fearful. And they didn't ask "Are there ghost in this world?". They just lapped up the fearful experience. No logic here, just a fearful experience.

Something cool for adults might be scary to children.
Not to mention those that scare the soul out of adults.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
Not to mention those that scare the soul out of adults.

Hmm... there's no evidence for this "soul" thing... I don't like it, please refrain from further references to it... someone might get the wrong idea.

(Point made?)

[Jyera]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Hmm... there's no evidence for this "soul" thing... I don't like it, please refrain from further references to it... someone might get the wrong idea.

(Point made?) Okay.

[billydkid]

Originally posted by Jyera
There is no such things as ghost as far as I know.
But there is fear.

I find movies about ghosts meaningless and counter-educational.
It encourage belief in the paranormal.
It feeds the brain with fear of the unknown.
It perpetual the existence of ghost when there is none.

I do not understand why, the people who like to see ghost movie are those who are scared of ghost.

I feel it should be rated, taxed, censored or perhaps even banned.

If it is impossible to stop it due to market demand, I thought the movie industry do have a social responsibility to compensate the society for perpetuating ignorance.

What is your opinion?
Let me get this straight - you don't like ghost movies so you think you should be able to dictate that other people not be allowed to see them? Is that the gist of it? Unfortunately, many people share this kind of an outlook about a whole variety of things. I am sure you can find enough people in the world who, in total, don't like absolutely everything. Would that be an excuse for banning everything? Horror movies/ghost stories and such are great fun for many people. Somehow there is something wrong with that?

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by Jyera
This thread is more about Fear than Ghost.
As I said, if a there are happy , not-scary ghost movie I'm supportive. Holy crapsicle. How would you go about and decide what's "happy , not-scary" then? Face it, what some people find scary, others find laughably stupid. It's subjective. People can figure stuff out for themselves. You're acting like a fundamentalist, and it's not becoming.

[patnray]

Originally posted by Jyera
Would you consider attempt to bar ID (intelligent Design) to be taught in school, restrictive and moves a country towards a nanny state?

I don't know of any attempts to bar the teaching of ID from schools. There is an effort to keep ID from being taught as science in science classes, but I know of no one who objects to teaching it in a more appropriate setting, such as a comparative religion or philosophy class.

Instead of banning these movies, why not use them to promote rational discussion. Ask people what aspect of modern life does the Matrix represent? What is "seeing dead people" a symbol for? Or even, "What role does belief in the paranormal fulfill in your life?"

You might open a few eyes instead of blinding everyone...

[Teetop]

This almost sounds like a sunday school class debating whether or not to attempt banning Harry Potter--

[Jyera]

Recently, at a local cinema.

The parent brought the child to the cinema to see a movie rated as General.

But a trailer of another movie was screen before the actual movie started. And it featured scary movies of a different rating. Which scared the child.

The cinema ought to have the sense not to mix content with conflicting rating.

The parent wrote to the papers to complain about the cinema management.

If there is no Rating, the Customer will have a weaker case against the cinema.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
Recently, at a local cinema.

The parent brought the child to the cinema to see a movie rated as General.

But a trailer of another movie was screen before the actual movie started. And it featured scary movies of a different rating. Which scared the child.

The cinema ought to have the sense not to mix content with conflicting rating.

The parent wrote to the papers to complain about the cinema management.

If there is no Rating, the Customer will have a weaker case against the cinema.

Jyera, I don't know where you live. In the U.S., I believe all trailers shown have to be rated as "G". And even this doesn't stop kids from getting scared... I've heard of kids getting scared during Snow White. They are individuals and will each have emotions... and that's OK.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by m0nngis
Holy crapsicle. How would you go about and decide what's "happy , not-scary" then? Face it, what some people find scary, others find laughably stupid. It's subjective. People can figure stuff out for themselves. You're acting like a fundamentalist, and it's not becoming.
There are some films that contained ghost but they are not at all
frightening.

There is a difference between an individual yardstick and a social yardstick.

Democratic vote and elected representative can decide how we take action on certain issue.

Eg. Over here in this forum, we can certainly note the number of supportive voice against the use of censorship, or banning things.
I'm not stupid you know?
---------------
How am I acting like a fundamentalist?
Please prove that I'm a fundamentist?
Else please kindly take that remark back.
You are putting me in danger.

And please don't argue that I have no cause to feel threaten. Because this is my subjective feeling. And you cannot tell if i feel endangered, hurt or not.

My feeling aside. You have put into real words accusing me to be "acting like a fundamentalist".

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
How am I acting like a fundamentalist?
Please prove that I'm a fundamentist?
Else please kindly take that remark back.
You are putting me in danger.

And please don't argue that I have no cause to feel threaten. Because this is my subjective feeling. And you cannot tell if i feel endangered, hurt or not.

My feeling aside. You have put into real words accusing me to be "acting like a fundamentalist".

Uhh.... what? A number of us attacked your proposal rather strongly, but no one threatened you. How are you in danger? Subjective feeling is hardly a convincing argument, if you expect someone else to do something.

Moreover, what good does "taking back" do?

I'm going to be generous and assume that you mean well, but this concept of dictating what is and is not acceptable is decidedly like the "fundamental" christian tactic that we're seeing a lot lately.

If someone actually threatens or abuses you here, there are forum mods to address that... but disagreement or counter-arguments are not only the norm, they are the point of this place.

[thaiboxerken]

We shouldn't censor these movies.

However, movies that claim to be "true stories" should have to prove that such absurdities actually happened.

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by Jyera
There are some films that contained ghost but they are not at all
frightening. They are not frightening to you... and then there are cartoons that you might find fun while others find them frightening. Do you understand this concept? Different people find different stuff "scary". So how are we to go about deciding on what movies to ban because they are frightening, and what movies should not be banned, because they are not frightening? You know, since different people are scared by different things... Am I coming through to you at all, here?

How am I acting like a fundamentalist?
Please prove that I'm a fundamentist?
Else please kindly take that remark back. Heh. "prove" you are a fundamentalist? I said you acted like one. And I said so because of your actions, ie. what you have said on this forum. How are you acting like a fundamentalist? By saying stuff that is typical of fundies to say, of course.

Teetop's example of people trying to ban Harry Potter is a good example.

Fundies behaving just like you:
http://uweb.superlink.net/~jdandrea/shrg99-529/index.html
PMRC (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parents_Music_Resource_Center)
Ban Gay Books (http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/04/26/eveningnews/main691106.shtml)
You are putting me in danger.

And please don't argue that I have no cause to feel threaten. Because this is my subjective feeling. And you cannot tell if i feel endangered, hurt or not. Putting you in danger? Aren't we behaving a wee bit overdramatic, perhaps?

I am not going to argue that you don't have these feelings. But I am going to argue that you better learn to deal with them, because on a forum (and life in general), you will find that people are going to disagree with you.

When you are suggesting taking away the right to freedom for adults, you are going to get some heat for that.

Can you tell I love horror movies? :D

[MoonDragn]

I agree with many of the things other people have brought up. You cannot push your personal opinion on other people. Thats why its called censorship because some idiot decided what is right and what is wrong. There is already a film rating in place for movies that give guidelines for parents on what kind of content a movie has. Its very irresponsible to claim what is right or wrong based on your own opinion.

Personally I find most movies about ghosts funny and contrived and not scary at all. A properly made thriller would not need anything so contrived to scare its viewers. Look at some of the classics by alfred hitchcock. Birds... whos afraid of birds?

Since we have not yet proven whether ghosts exists or not, we really can't say if they are real. Until we do, your initial statement is basically invalid so the rest of your argument is pretty much redundant.

[Ryokan]

Don't feed the troll.

[Jyera]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Uhh.... what? A number of us attacked your proposal rather strongly, but no one threatened you. How are you in danger? Subjective feeling is hardly a convincing argument, if you expect someone else to do something.
I am okay with disagreement. I'm okay with people attacking my ideas or proposal. But I feel that there is no need for some to judge me. Nor there is a need to attack my image/reputation in this forum.

Branding me as "acting like fundamentalist" put my reputation in danger. Someone who read the post in forum can errornously associate me as fundamentalist.

Action speak louder than words. It speak louder than the label of "he is a fundamentalist". To say that I act like fundamentalist is more serious.

m0nngis said "You're acting like a fundamentalist, and it's not becoming.". This is judging me. Which I disagree. And I ask for prove. To describe me as "not becoming" infers I had bad behaviour.

After 9/11, I am aware that fundamentalism is associated by some people with extremism (usually religiously related). I do not think fundamentalist is bad. But I am keenly aware the possible unwarranted prejudiced to be branded as such.

I felt that some people are responding in a knee jerking way to the words "ban" and "censorship" in my opening post.
I am okay with that. But I feel that people has to be careful not to put a "brand" on others.

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Moreover, what good does "taking back" do?
It puts on record that...
He is sensitive to my feelings.
I shall not pursue him to give me convincing prove anymore.

Originally posted by El_Spectre
I'm going to be generous and assume that you mean well, but this concept of dictating what is and is not acceptable is decidedly like the "fundamental" christian tactic that we're seeing a lot lately.
I understand.

Originally posted by El_Spectre
If someone actually threatens or abuses you here, there are forum mods to address that... but disagreement or counter-arguments are not only the norm, they are the point of this place.
Thanks. I'm sure of that. There is no physical danger.

El_Spectre, you disagreed with me but you did not brand me.
It's okay to say my ideas are ridiculous, but not okay to say I'm acting like "fundamentalist".
If he wants to criticise me, criticise my specific act or idea, do not brand me.

With "censorship" and "ban" these two sensitive words in the opening post, I have already had my hands full managing the reaction. I do not need him to add "fundamentalist".

While he discourages Banning , censorship, and perhaps opposed proposal to have rating such as "Ghost-content". He had unwittingly given me the Rating="Acting like Fundamentalist".

[Jyera]

m0nngis ,

Do read my last post to El_Spectre.

With "censorship" and "ban" these two sensitive words in the opening post, I have already had my hands full managing the reaction. I do not need "fundamentalist" added to it.

Based on your last post I get the feel that we have nothing personal aginst each other. Is that right ?

I hope you understand and help me to further fruitful discussion.

[Jyera]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by m0nngis
They are not frightening to you... and then there are cartoons that you might find fun while others find them frightening. Do you understand this concept? Different people find different stuff "scary". So how are we to go about deciding on what movies to ban because they are frightening, and what movies should not be banned, because they are not frightening? You know, since different people are scared by different things... Am I coming through to you at all, here?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Yes, I understand perfectly.

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Jyera
There are some films that contained ghost but they are not at all
frightening.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Now is this coming through to you ? In fact some are comedy . (not cartoon)

By the way, I am not saying this fact proves the feasibility of Rating. nor does it makes it easy to rate.

[Ryokan]

But, Jyera, you are acting like a fundamentalist.

And you can put that on your record.

[El_Spectre]

Jyera, for whatever "reputation" is worth in a message board... you're doing much more damage to it with this nonsense.

You proposed a fairly dramatic action, we pretty much all said "no"... either accept that or don't. But don't act the victim, because you're not.

People tend to earn the reputation they have, whether they like it or not, y'know?

(incidently, trying to dictate behaviour whilst playing the persecution card is a current favorite fundy tactic... just an FYI)

[Jyera]

Thanks all for the advice.
I will reflect on them.

Meanwhile as a summary.
(1) Ban is no no.
(2) Censorship is bad.
(3) Current Rating may be good enough.
(4) Too detailed a rating might not be wise.
(5) May be difficult to Rate/Censor/Ban without killing the entertainment value.
(6) "True Stories" claims need to be supported with prove.
(7) Don't ban, use them to promote discussion
(8) Age of a viewer is important factor.

[thaiboxerken]

I think some new ratings maybe needed here. F for fiction, T for true story, DT for dramatically augmented true stories and the like. Ghost stories should automatically get an F.

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by Jyera
Based on your last post I get the feel that we have nothing personal aginst each other. Is that right ? Absolutely correct.

I do, however, have a problem with the idea that I need the government or whatever as a nanny, telling me what movies I can and cannot watch.

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by Jyera
There are some films that contained ghost but they are not at all
frightening.
Now is this coming through to you ? In fact some are comedy . (not cartoon) Thanks for proving my point for me. They are not frightening to you. Maybe you find the movie Casper the Friendly Ghost fun and cozy and all that. And maybe somebody finds it scary as hell. People should be able to figure it out for themselves, without being patronized and treated as children.

I just keep repeating myself here...

Let me just say that I agree with thaiboxerken that it sucks when movies claim to be "based on a true story". In fact, this usually means they are made for TV B-movies starring Shannen Doherty. :)

I don't think the F, T & DT scheme is going to work, though. I would say almost all the "based on a true story" movies are fiction.

Edited for smiley!

[MoonDragn]

Alot of things have already been said so I will just bring up an example of censorship in the US : Sex is treated like a dirty word in this country, we have so much restrictions and taboos on it that its unhealthy. In the countries of Europe, they have less restrictions. They are much more open about sexuality. As a result, the number of sex related crimes in europe is actually lower than that in the states.

If we treat the supernatural as something to be feared, we will never advance beyond that fear to learn more about it. This is a necessary process to move it from the realm of the supernatural to the natural. I believe everything in the world has an explaination, we just have to find it. Supernatural is really something we don't understand and fear for an irrational reason.

[Ryokan]

Originally posted by m0nngis

I don't think the F, T & DT scheme is going to work, though. I would say almost all the "based on a true story" movies are fiction.

And what do you do about movies that are sort of based on true events, but are very liberal with the truth like Braveheart and Last Samurai?

Originally posted by MoonDragn
Alot of things have already been said so I will just bring up an example of censorship in the US : Sex is treated like a dirty word in this country, we have so much restrictions and taboos on it that its unhealthy. In the countries of Europe, they have less restrictions. They are much more open about sexuality. As a result, the number of sex related crimes in europe is actually lower than that in the states.

We also don't have the teen pregnancy problem the US is having :)

(Except for the UK, for some reason)

And! I find George W. Bush to be very scary, could we have a warning on the news everytime he appears, please? :P

[Jyera]

Originally posted by m0nngis
Thanks for proving my point for me. They are not frightening to you. Maybe you find the movie Casper the Friendly Ghost fun and cozy and all that. And maybe somebody finds it scary as hell. People should be able to figure it out for themselves, without being patronized and treated as children.

I just keep repeating myself here...
...snipe... You kept needing to repeat yourselves because you have not understand my point.

May you haven't some of the shows I have seen.
Let me try again.

There is a local lighthearted TV serial about a ghost in a family.
The mother get knock down by a car and was apparently dead.
She(the ghost) did not realise it. Even went about cleaning tidying her house. Went about talking to everyone but no one can hear or see her. Much later she was even able to exert herself and make some people see her.

Being a family serial, it revolves around the family, relationship, love and worklife. And there are humor. The ghost is a middle aged mother, loves her children and went about help them overcome problems.

It is NOT cartoon, the "ghost" is NOT transulcent.
So, if you are scared of her, you might as well be scared of the normal non-ghost character.

If you only see one or two episodes in between, you might be forgiven to think that the woman is a still alive.

Nevertheless it featured the concept of ghost.
But the fear element due to a ghost is not there.

This post is NOT menat to justify any need for banning or censorship, rating. It is meant to tell you that there are shows that feature non-scary ghost.

Do you understand me now, m0nngis?

[Jyera]

Originally posted by thaiboxerken
I think some new ratings maybe needed here. F for fiction, T for true story, DT for dramatically augmented true stories and the like. Ghost stories should automatically get an F.
To add... The Rating of T is more important.

Not so much whether Ghost is in F or not. But there has to be rather stringent requirement for it to get into T.

With this modern internet age, I would expect a T rated movie to have Internet Links, References to reports, References to comments by Critics. Comments by Sceptics, References to de-bunking report. References to opposing views.

With a T rating, also offers opportunity for a particular movie to be revoked of the T status. And to be relegated to F or DT.

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by Jyera
You kept needing to repeat yourselves because you have not understand my point. I think I understand perfectly well.May you haven't some of the shows I have seen.I would say that it's probable that you've seen some shows that I haven't.Let me try again.

There is a local lighthearted TV serial about a ghost in a family.
The mother get knock down by a car and was apparently dead.
She(the ghost) did not realise it. Even went about cleaning tidying her house. Went about talking to everyone but no one can hear or see her. Much later she was even able to exert herself and make some people see her.

Being a family serial, it revolves around the family, relationship, love and worklife. And there are humor. The ghost is a middle aged mother, loves her children and went about help them overcome problems.OK.It is NOT cartoon, the "ghost" is NOT transulcent.
So, if you are scared of her, you might as well be scared of the normal non-ghost character. Yes. Exactly. That's my point.If you only see one or two episodes in between, you might be forgiven to think that the woman is a still alive.Thanks.Nevertheless it featured the concept of ghost.
But the fear element due to a ghost is not there.Correction: The element of fear isn't there for you.This post is NOT menat to justify any need for banning or censorship, rating. It is meant to tell you that there are shows that feature non-scary ghost.But what it really tells me is that there are shows that you don't find scary.Do you understand me now, m0nngis? I have understood this the whole time.

Seriously, are you this dense?

I'll try one more time. What I'm saying is that just because you personally don't find the TV show you're talking about scary, doesn't mean that somebody else might. And conversly, the fact that you find some ghost movies really scary doesn't mean that everybody else does.

So when you say "ghost movies that create a sense of fear should be banned" what you're really saying is this:

"I was frightened by this particular movie, so nobody else should be allowed to watch it."

Now, if you ask me, that's a sentence that one might find in the Fundie Behavior 101 text book.

Let me create a scenario for you:
I am scared to death of cabbage. Really, it terrifies me. One day I was sitting in my living room, channel surfing and enjoying myself, when, *BAM*, there was Jamie Oliver, telling me how to cook a mutton-and-cabbage stew! I nearly wet myself! I couldn't sleep for a week, damn scary cabbage!

I think we should ban all cooking shows, don't you? I mean, they show cabbages on them, and nobody should have to go through something like that!



It really boggles my mind that you don't understand this. I am starting to agree with Ryokan on his trolling observation.


If one tries to invoke Godwin's Law on purpose, does it still work, or must it happen naturally?

I'll give it a try, and we'll see what happens...

Hitler.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by m0nngis
If one tries to invoke Godwin's Law on purpose, does it still work, or must it happen naturally?

Sadly, it doesn't work. See Quirk's Exception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law#Other_laws_and_corollaries) :)

[m0nngis]

Originally posted by El_Spectre
Sadly, it doesn't work. See Quirk's Exception (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law#Other_laws_and_corollaries) :) Ah, well, it was worth a try. ;)

[Jyera]

Originally posted by m0nngis
..... snipe ...
I'll try one more time. What I'm saying is that just because you personally don't find the TV show you're talking about scary, doesn't mean that somebody else might. And conversly, the fact that you find some ghost movies really scary doesn't mean that everybody else does.
mOnngis, I understand this concept.
You do not need to "try one more time".

Originally posted by m0nngis
So when you say "ghost movies that create a sense of fear should be banned" what you're really saying is this:

"I was frightened by this particular movie, so nobody else should be allowed to watch it." You are putting words into my mouth. This is not my view. This is very unbecoming, I think you are acting like a .... . Your imagination about me is running wild.

Originally posted by m0nngis
Now, if you ask me, that's a sentence that one might find in the Fundie Behavior 101 text book.."
Especially those who wishes to ban cabbages.

Originally posted by m0nngis
Let me create a scenario for you:
I am scared to death of cabbage. Really, it terrifies me. One day I was sitting in my living room, channel surfing and enjoying myself, when, *BAM*, there was Jamie Oliver, telling me how to cook a mutton-and-cabbage stew! I nearly wet myself! I couldn't sleep for a week, damn scary cabbage!

I think we should ban all cooking shows, don't you? I mean, they show cabbages on them, and nobody should have to go through something like that!
My sympathy to your admission of your fear of cabbages.
(And your desire to ban it.)
But Never, ever, ever BAN. Never.
Feel free to condemn, mock, vilify or debunk nonsense ideas, but just BANNING what you believe is wrong is a horrible precedent to set.

Originally posted by m0nngis
It really boggles my mind that you don't understand this. I am starting to agree with Ryokan on his trolling observation.

I understand many things. Including your tendency keep on repeating and asserting that I do not understand, despite being told otherwise.

Originally posted by m0nngis
If one tries to invoke Godwin's Law on purpose, does it still work, or must it happen naturally?

I'll give it a try, and we'll see what happens...

Hitler.

[El_Spectre]

Originally posted by Jyera
But Never, ever, ever BAN. Never.
Feel free to condemn, mock, vilify or debunk nonsense ideas, but just BANNING what you believe is wrong is a horrible precedent to set.

Sounds familiar somehow.

OK folks. The point has been made and Jyera acknowledges it. Let's move on.

[billydkid]

We have all pretty much had our go at this original post. I just wanted to say that "horror" - scarey movies and books about monsters and ghosts and stuff, going all the way back to the first scarey stories told around campfires by cave dudes - play an important role for civilization. The truth is, there really are monsters and horrors in the world. Hitler, the BTK killer, Ted Bundy, plagues and illnesses, natural disasters, the deaths of loved ones - all sorts of things that are truly scarey. I think horror fantasies help people to cope with or be distracted from the multitude of genuine horrors in the world - all of which are truly and deeply more frightening than invading martians or malevolent spirits or Jurasic Park Tyranosaurs. Typically in horror movies the individuals involved have some sort of recourse and a way to fight back. In real life there is very frequently little or nothing that can be done. If anything, I think enjoying horror movies and stories and such is a healthy way to deal with the many terrifying realities which ultimately confront most of us at some point in our lives.

[patnray]

Well said billydkid. The ghosts and monsters of fiction are metaphors for society's fears at the time. Frankenstein is an expression of concern about the changes scientific advances were fostering. Sci Fi movies of the 50's reflected fears about nuclear technology. The "dead people" in the Sixth Sense are emotionally dead.

Anyone focusing on the ghosts and monsters as real entities is missing the point...