Ask not what your country can do for you

[OneWing]

Ask what your country can do to piss you off. (http://politicalhumor.about.com/od/currentevents/a/katrinaquotes.htm)

[CapelDodger]

I can't really take issue with Quote 3"It makes no sense to spend billions of dollars to rebuild a city that's seven feet under sea level....It looks like a lot of that place could be bulldozed." Not, I'll concede, a good time to say it.

Quote 4" ... Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house — he's lost his entire house — there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch." was beyond crass. Even if it had been Trent Lott's only house.

[RandFan]

I was really impressed that out of 25 quotes that they found 2 non-republican quotes. And how they left out Kanyae West's rant is beyond me. I guess that just because a statement has no basis in fact doesn't make it stupid.

I will concede that many of the 25 quotes were indeed stupid but the article is transparently partisan.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
I can't really take issue with Quote 3Not, I'll concede, a good time to say it.

I agree with you there. The point does have merit, and I think is very much worth at least discussing. But not NOW. There's a time and place for everything. And now is not it. There will be plenty of time later to decide what to do to rebuild.

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by RandFan
I was really impressed that out of 25 quotes that they found 2 non-republican quotes. And how they left out Kanyae West's rant is beyond me. I guess that just because a statement has no basis in fact doesn't make it stupid.

I will concede that many of the 25 quotes were indeed stupid but the article is transparently partisan.

Yeah, it's ridiculous to not quote musicians and weigh their opinions of national disasters the same as statements made by the president, elected officials, and the head of FEMA. Blatantly partisan!

It would be more balanced if they quoted what Madonna thought of it as well.

[OneWing]

I don't doubt that Democrats, were there enough outspoken ones right now to be on the front page all the time, would be saying equally stupid things.

Of course, you quote what is said to the media, and the Republicans dominate the media right now. Sure, you could argue that its because the media is out to bash republicans, but what it comes down to is the GOP is in power and they are the face of the nation right now. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect more republican media attention, regardless of media bias.

I would not be shocked to know that this writer was specifically targetting republicans for this piece, but I would not be shocked to know that this was an unbiased depiction of what has been said, either.

My real issue isn't that I hate republicans (I do) or that I love democrats (oh, hell no). My issue is how blatently out of touch politicians are. These are the people that the citizens elect to represent thier views, but they have no idea what the views of the citizens are.

I know, I know, not a shocker there. But when was the last time it was more readily apparent than now?

[RandFan]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Yeah, it's ridiculous to not quote musicians and weigh their opinions of national disasters the same as statements made by the president, elected officials, and the head of FEMA. Blatantly partisan!

It would be more balanced if they quoted what Madonna thought of it as well. Agreed. I have to admit though that whenever I think I'm damn glad Dan Quayle didn't become president Bush says something to make me question that feeling.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by OneWing
Of course, you quote what is said to the media, and the Republicans dominate the media right now. Sure, you could argue that its because the media is out to bash republicans, but what it comes down to is the GOP is in power and they are the face of the nation right now. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect more republican media attention, regardless of media bias.

A very good point. I hate Republicans, Democrats, and the media equally. Despise them. And I do believe that most of the national media in the US is extremely biased towards the left/against the right. But you have made a very good point here, that I happen to agree with.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
It would be more balanced if they quoted what Madonna thought of it as well. Thought? Madonna? She's doing what now?

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
Thought? Madonna? She's doing what now?

Wrapping red string around her horse's fetlocks, probably.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by OneWing
I don't doubt that Democrats, were there enough outspoken ones right now to be on the front page all the time, would be saying equally stupid things. I can't imagine Clinton making such a hash of things as the Bush Minor team has. Not so much in the practical as in the political. Clinton could speak to the people, Bush speaks as if he's amongst his Country Club friends (Quote 4). Kerry would probably have handled the practical side better, as well as the political.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by OneWing
I don't doubt that Democrats, were there enough outspoken ones right now to be on the front page all the time, would be saying equally stupid things.

Of course, you quote what is said to the media, and the Republicans dominate the media right now. Sure, you could argue that its because the media is out to bash republicans, but what it comes down to is the GOP is in power and they are the face of the nation right now. Therefore, it is reasonable to expect more republican media attention, regardless of media bias.

I would not be shocked to know that this writer was specifically targetting republicans for this piece, but I would not be shocked to know that this was an unbiased depiction of what has been said, either.

My real issue isn't that I hate republicans (I do) or that I love democrats (oh, hell no). My issue is how blatently out of touch politicians are. These are the people that the citizens elect to represent thier views, but they have no idea what the views of the citizens are.

I know, I know, not a shocker there. But when was the last time it was more readily apparent than now? I concede that the people in charge; Bush, FEMA (Brown, Chertoff) etc., are by the very fact of being leaders and in charge are more in the headlights so to speak. "Unbiased"? Hmmmmm..... arguable but I'm willing to consider that.

What is most embarrassing is the Marie Antoinette type of crap coming from Bush et al or the high fiving and slapping each other on the back for anything. I think a solemn thanks for the workers and folks who put were on the front lines is appropriate but anything else is unseemly. I think there has definitely been a lack of tact.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
I can't imagine Clinton making such a hash of things as the Bush Minor team has. Not so much in the practical as in the political. Clinton could speak to the people, Bush speaks as if he's amongst his Country Club friends (Quote 4). Kerry would probably have handled the practical side better, as well as the political. Clinton? No argument. Kerry? Perhaps but I'm not so certain. I think Bush did a good job after 9/11.

[Beth]

No 5 was my fave:
"Considering the dire circumstances that we have in New Orleans, virtually a city that has been destroyed, things are going relatively well." –FEMA Director Michael Brown, Sept. 1, 2005 (Source)

There's an oxymoronic quality to it I find I can actually laugh at it instead of feeling like crying.

I thought the quote by the guy at the end was, well, I think he expresses well what so many of us are feeling, even if we only watched it on TV. He made it to a politican who was talking about what a great job they had all been doing in response to Katrina.

Beth
"I haven't heard that, because, for the last four days, I've been seeing dead bodies in the streets here in Mississippi. And to listen to politicians thanking each other and complimenting each other, you know, I got to tell you, there are a lot of people here who are very upset, and very angry, and very frustrated. And when they hear politicians slap – you know, thanking one another, it just, you know, it kind of cuts them the wrong way right now, because literally there was a body on the streets of this town yesterday being eaten by rats because this woman had been laying in the street for 48 hours. And there's not enough facilities to take her up. Do you get the anger that is out here?" (Source)


Tell me, is this guy a republican or a democrat? Does it matter? This isn't a partisan thing. Republicans are taking the brunt of the critisims because they are the guys in power right now. Therefore, they must bear the responbility for this mess. But there's plenty of blame to go around and the democrats have their share of it too.

I want a better government. What do I have to do to get it? There's a bunch of smart people on this board. Anybody here got any ideas?

Beth

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by RandFan
I think Bush did a good job after 9/11. I was impressed at the time but his performance since then makes me think there was little of Bush Minor, but much of his handlers, on view. Had it stopped at Afghanistan I might still think so, but Iraq has provided him with so many opportunities to flounder around.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by Beth
I want a better government. What do I have to do to get it? There's a bunch of smart people on this board. Anybody here got any ideas?

Beth Revolution.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Beth
Tell me, is this guy a republican or a democrat? Does it matter? This isn't a partisan thing. He was taking a Democrat to task. I think the list IS partisan. I don't see how you ignore all of the other stupid things said to keep only Republican crap in. I just don't see how the list is non-partisan. The two non-Republican quotes clearly appear to be token at best.

Republicans are taking the brunt of the criticism because they are the guys in power right now. The Governor Louisiana and the Mayor of New Orleans are Democrat. They were first responsible and they failed to implement the evacuation order. Hell, they failed to create anything more than a sketch of a plan even though they promised to do otherwise. There is no escaping that they failed BIG time and they very much deserve criticism.

Therefore, they must bear the responbility for this mess. To the extent that they are responsible I agree. I'm really disappointed in the response by FEMA. I don't care that the Governor and Mayor couldn't pull their heads out of their butts. Go in and do it and then take the criticism for being pro-active if indeed there is any criticism. Complaining that you are only a coordinator and facilitator while true just doesn't cut it when people's lives are on the line.

But there's plenty of blame to go around and the democrats have their share of it too. Lot's of it, no question.

[OneWing]

The quote at the vey end is from Anderson Cooper, I believe. CNN talking head. I usually don't have much respect for him or what he says, but he's usually better than Bill O'Rielley. I think he leans left, could be wrong. I haven't watched much TV outside of sports and cartoons in a while.

I was a little too young/naive during the Clinton administration to have a strong thought about how he would react to such a situation. With the exception of lieing about getting a few blow jobs, I think I liked him. Of course, raising taxes to fix the deficit, while effective, is probably the wrong way to go about it. Still better than just cutting taxes to those who don't need the extra money. I still have a problem with overtaxation with nothing to show for it, but eh.

If you want a better government, get more guns, right?

A couple of people have a good signature line that goes along the lines of:

Demorcracy is two wolves and a sheep deciding what's for dinner. Liberty is a bunch of sheep with guns disputing that decision.

And I really, really liked the tie in to Marie Antoinette .

[geni]

Originally posted by Beth

I want a better government. What do I have to do to get it? There's a bunch of smart people on this board. Anybody here got any ideas?

Beth

Emigrate

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by geni
Emigrate

Cool, got any suggestions? I have the following requirements:

1: Lower taxes than the US
2: Lower social spending than the US
3: Legalized drugs
4: The right to bear arms, including carrying a concealed pistol
5: A country with a strong military
6: Strong foreign policy
7: The right to vote
8: No speed limits on the highways
9: Freedoms equivalent to the US Bill of Rights

If you can find that for me, I might consider moving. :)

[geni]

Originally posted by Freakshow
[B]Cool, got any suggestions? I have the following requirements:

1: Lower taxes than the US

oil rich gulf states


2: Lower social spending than the US
[/qute]

Net or as a percentage of GDP?

[quote]
3: Legalized drugs


Forget it.


4: The right to bear arms, including carrying a concealed pistol


DRC although most of the weapns that seem a good idea there would be a little tricky to concleal


5: A country with a strong military


define strong

6: Strong foreign policy

dito


7: The right to vote


on what? how free do any elections have to be?


8: No speed limits on the highways


DRC


9: Freedoms equivalent to the US Bill of Rights


DRC. Includes the freedom to take the consiquences.


If you can find that for me, I might consider moving. :)


Depending on how much money you can get your hands on russia might be the cloest to your requirments.

[Freakshow]

Originally posted by geni
(Edited out by FS)

No thanks. I think I'll just stay where I am. :)

[peptoabysmal]

It must be really awful to be on the liberal left side of the aisle and have only failure and human tragedy to look forward to exploiting. :(

[geni]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
It must be really awful to be on the liberal left side of the aisle and have only failure and human tragedy to look forward to exploiting. :(

:id:

[delphi_ote]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
I can't really take issue with Quote 3Not, I'll concede, a good time to say it.

Yea. I'm sure there's no good reason why all those levees and drainage systems were developed in the first place. Some crazy guy somewhere probably just built the entire city on a whim. It's not like it's in an advantageous location or anything.

Hey, while we're at it, why not just forget about L.A. too? I'm tired of hearing earthquake news all the time. If something bad happens in a city from now on, let's just forget we ever built it.

[LostAngeles]

18) "Last night, we showed you the full force of a superpower government going to the rescue." –MSNBC's Chris Matthews, Sept. 1, 2005

Are we sure he wasn't being sarcastic?

[Dr Adequate]

Originally posted by RandFan
Perhaps but I'm not so certain. I think Bush did a good job after 9/11. Five words: "Crusade"; "Pakis" and "Operation Infinite Justice". The first two were Bush's gaffes alone, and the third showed that all his advisers are complete idiots as well. If he were smart, he'd pick smart people to tell him what to say, but then if he were smart he wouldn't need to.

NB: Marie Antoinette did not say "Let them eat cake". That's just left-wing propaganda.

[RandFan]

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
Five words: "Crusade"; "Pakis" and "Operation Infinite Justice". The first two were Bush's gaffes alone, and the third showed that all his advisers are complete idiots as well. Could you give us some additional information?

Originally posted by Dr Adequate
NB: Marie Antoinette did not say "Let them eat cake". True but it represents the attitude that the monarchy had towards those who were suffering.

ETA: Ok, I looked up "Pakis". Uhhh... huh? Geez presidents say dumb things. Kennedy declared himself a pastry while in Germany. I had no idea "Pakis" is racist and I don't think Bush knows every bit of obscure protocol. Should he have? Sure, he has folks to figure that out for him. And he should be perfect. He is our president for Ed's sake. Unbelievable that so much could be made of something that was a simple mistake and certainly one made in ignorance.

Bush has said a lot of dumb things but I hardly think this one proves much.

[Rolfe]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
" ... Out of the rubbles of Trent Lott's house — he's lost his entire house — there's going to be a fantastic house. And I'm looking forward to sitting on the porch." Quote 4 was beyond crass. Even if it had been Trent Lott's only house. No, No! Easycruise thinks it was a nice, friendly thing to say! (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?s=&postid=1871053826#post1871053826) Tell me, if your best friend's house burns down, you wouldn't offer help to rebuild it and then suggest a nice, celebratory drink on the porch or deck when it's finished?Clearly, Dubya can do no wrong, and it's just the right sort of remark to make while old people are dying of dehydration, and mothers can't get any milk for their starving babies....

Rolfe.

[Bob Klase]

Originally posted by TragicMonkey
Yeah, it's ridiculous to not quote musicians and weigh their opinions of national disasters the same as statements made by the president, elected officials, and the head of FEMA. Blatantly partisan!

Well I know Barbara Bush isn't the president or head of FEMA, so what was it she's been elected to?

[TragicMonkey]

Originally posted by Bob Klase
Well I know Barbara Bush isn't the president or head of FEMA, so what was it she's been elected to?

The same thing Hillary Clinton was, when people spent a great deal of time criticizing her.

A president with a spouse is going to be seen as a president who chose that particular spouse, and if the spouse is a blithering idiot, it reflects badly on the president. In this case, she is not only the spouse of a former president, but the mother of the current one.

At the very least she should have had the political acumen not to make comments that reinforce the picture of her son as the child of wealthy, out-of-touch, thoughtless people.

[CapelDodger]

Originally posted by delphi_ote
Yea. I'm sure there's no good reason why all those levees and drainage systems were developed in the first place. Some crazy guy somewhere probably just built the entire city on a whim. It's not like it's in an advantageous location or anything.Look at it. Is that the result of an "advantageous location"? Me, I'm thinking "bad idea". The Old New Orleans has come through relatively well, but what is now defined as New Orleans is vastly larger and built up over the last 50 years or so. The civil engineering necessary to make that possible has changed the nature of the Mississippi and made the problems worse. There is a point when you give up trying to engineer around Nature, and this would seem to be a good time, not after the next hurricane.

Hey, while we're at it, why not just forget about L.A. too? I'm tired of hearing earthquake news all the time. If something bad happens in a city from now on, let's just forget we ever built it. It seems foolish to build even more on it. I can't see why anyone would bother, but there it is. Human nature, I guess. Will it be worth re-building after the earthquake? Perhaps to prove a point to Nature - "We are not cowed! We are 'Murricans!"?

[delphi_ote]

Originally posted by CapelDodger
It seems foolish to build even more on it. I can't see why anyone would bother, but there it is. Human nature, I guess. Will it be worth re-building after the earthquake? Perhaps to prove a point to Nature - "We are not cowed! We are 'Murricans!"?

Should we not rebuild anything which proves to be an engineering challenge? Each time we've learned from previous mistakes and rebuilt LA even stronger. Now it can withstand much stronger earthquakes than it could previously.

Population centers usually exist in regions for natural reasons, not through specific planning. We can't pick up the Gulf and the Missippi river and move them somewhere else. The amount of money that enters our economy by having a large NO pales in comparison to what it would take to better engineer the city. That's why we built it in the first place.

Of course if you'd still rather not rebuild it, you want to volunteer to go down to the refugees and let them know we won't be helping them rebuild their homes and that they'd better find another place to stay?

[luchog]

Originally posted by RandFan
To the extent that they are responsible I agree. I'm really disappointed in the response by FEMA. I don't care that the Governor and Mayor couldn't pull their heads out of their butts. Go in and do it and then take the criticism for being pro-active if indeed there is any criticism. Complaining that you are only a coordinator and facilitator while true just doesn't cut it when people's lives are on the line.
No. FEMA is legally prevented, by it's own charter, from intervening earlier than 72-96 hours after the recognition of a disaster. The info is on their website. Probably to prevent federal and state forces from getting in each others' way and duplicating effort. http://www.fema.gov/

That was was entirely on the neads of Nagle and Blanco; particularly when Blanco resisted the declaration of a State of Emergency for 24 hours, when doing so would have opened the door for quicker federal aid.
Originally posted by RandFan
Kennedy declared himself a pastry while in Germany.
Nope. Urban legend started by someone with poor knowledge of Deutsche, and repeatedly debunked. http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/jfk_berliner.htm

[RandFan]

Originally posted by luchog
Nope. Urban legend started by someone with poor knowledge of Deutsche, and repeatedly debunked. http://urbanlegends.about.com/cs/historical/a/jfk_berliner.htm I stand corrected.

[Ladewig]

Originally posted by peptoabysmal
It must be really awful to be on the liberal left side of the aisle and have only failure and human tragedy to look forward to exploiting. :(

As opposed to being on the right side of the aisle and looking forward to exploiting both human tragedy and human success.