Are people being disrespectful towards...

[Man of jade]

You guessed it; Religon. Especially Christianity.

I dont mind people quoting what the pope said and saying it might be wrong, like in Darat's (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17881) Thread. But when people start posting things like Jesus the bum, Jesus the eunuch, the Nuns with leather straps etc dont you think some people (like shemp) could be a little more respectful? I see no other Theists that go around regularly posting such threads, why cant certain people show the same respect?

[Stimpson J. Cat]

why cant certain people show the same respect?


Because some people aren't respectful. Just ignore them. If they say something that you think goes too far with respect to the forum rules, then report them to a moderator. If not, then either ignore them, or respond to their childishness, and in doing so encourage them to continue.

Not all the trolls on this board are woo-woos.

Dr. Stupid

[Darat]

Originally posted by Man of jade
You guessed it; Religon. Especially Christianity.

I dont mind people quoting what the pope said and saying it might be wrong, like in Darat's (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17881) Thread. But when people start posting things like Jesus the bum, Jesus the eunuch, the Nuns with leather straps etc dont you think some people (like shemp) could be a little more respectful? I see no other Theists that go around regularly posting such threads, why cant certain people show the same respect?

Well there have been, more in the past then recently, threads equally "disrespectful" to atheists, materialists, scientists, Allah, Mohammed and motor-mechanics (well perhaps not the last one) and so on. It is a fact that many people don't come here to have a discussion or to learn. The best way to deal with it is to ignore them - not let them get under your skin.

(Personally I wish no-one would "pollute" the forum - of course I want to define what is "pollution" ;) )

[c4ts]

Well, some theists do go around bashing atheism for the most absurd reasons. Here is one example where things like respect for atheism went right down the toilet after the first reply: http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14410

If you want your religion to be respected, be reasonable. Be willing to take other possibilities other than your own religion into consideration, use logic instead of accusation, and be willing to concede a few points to others if they are well thought out. It also helps if you can appreciate satire.

What you call Christianity bashing may have somthing to do with how Christianity is represented: poorly. The last great representitives of Christianity on this board were serious trolls- Jedi Knight and Muscleman. Take a look at their posts if you want an idea of how NOT to behave.

[Christian]

As I've said before, there is a limit. And I don't think they cross the limit until they insult you personally and the insult can be potentially dangerous.

But I don't agree with the going down to least common denomitator philosophy. Either one has standards and abides by them or one has not, particularly on the matters of verbal garbage.

I suppose it's sort of fun to post silly things that mock religion, sometimes. But Franko has posted many things that mock atheism, and many were funny!

Try not to be offended. I'll do my level best not to offer offense

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Christian
As I've said before, there is a limit. And I don't think they cross the limit until they insult you personally and the insult can be potentially dangerous.

But I don't agree with the going down to least common denomitator philosophy. Either one has standards and abides by them or one has not, particularly on the matters of verbal garbage.

I've noticed how being open-minded keeps you from taking those kinds of things as personal insults. And, for the record, insults don't kill people, insulted people kill people.

[evildave]

I'm sorry, but when I meet an adult that has an invisible friend, openly believes fairy tales to be true, and parrots tabloid rants as "truth", it's all I can really manage not to torment them for being retards, let alone "respect" them.

Just a human failing, I guess.

If it takes a GOD to love and respect sycophants, I suppose it might take a GOD to gladly suffer and respect fools as well.

When religiosity properly earns my respect for being a well-founded philosophy, I'll respect it... but I doubt that'll happen any time soon.

[Kilted_Canuck]

Personally, I don't respect religion, but I do respect people choices of religion.

If it bothers you, you can ignore it, or post replies asking people to smarten up. (though I doubt it will work)

[shemp]

What exactly is the point of respecting religion? To avoid making waves? To validate other people's idiotic choices? To accept mass delusion as valid?

If people believed in the Tooth Fairy and Easter Bunny, would you say that we should just nod our heads politely when someone says they exist?

Belief in Jesus, Allah, Yahweh, etc. is no different. A myth is a myth is a myth!

If people want to talk about deities in mythological terms, fine. We can discuss the social implications of belief in deities. But the line is crossed when people profess actual belief in deities, when they claim that they really exist.

I have no obligation, social or otherwise, to respect false beliefs. To do so says that one accepts lies as truth.

[evildave]

On top of all of this, it's truly *pointless* to respect Christianity for some people.

The only "respect" they want is total fervent worship of Christianity, preferably at their own church. Because the one across the street is full of pretenders to Christianity.

Anything short of that is absolute disrespect in their eyes.

Being Jewish is only a somewhat excusable offense, and only to some.

Being Islamic, or Hindu or whatever, well, at least that's not being an atheist.

So there really is no point at being "respectful" to their bloodthirsty little canibal religion: It's just another form of worship.

[Socrates]

By definition it is disrespectful.

disrespect:
n. a lack of respect; discourtesy. disrespectful adj. disrespectfully adv.
Oxford English Dictionary

Love,
Socrates

[Man of jade]

It only really offends me when the sarcasm goes up and people start citing things "Jesus is posting annoying threads about me so im getting back at him!" Shemp, while you may not have an obligation, it certainly doesnt make you look mature. Quite the opposite.

[Paul C. Anagnostopoulos]

Boy, this religion thing really gets everyone riled up, doesn't it?

~~ Paul

[Darwin]

Sure us non-believers can be insulting,just like believers as known.
It is likely that you will have to deal with the religious,and personally I know many people around me who are.
I do not agree with their ideas,neither do I spend my time trying to convince them that they should not follow it.I do not think that this even is an important topic to argue about.
My first thread was somewhat concerned with this,nobody did reply.
On the other hand,christians can be a lot less reserved to let you know that they do have this fundamental truth on their hands and require you to agree.
Then in many a case,you try to be polite and try to understand it,as far as it has to do with religion it can somehow be tolerated and not taken as a crackbrained assault.

Respect,yes.
Keep your ground,sure.

[Crossbow]

Originally posted by Man of jade
You guessed it; Religon. Especially Christianity.

I dont mind people quoting what the pope said and saying it might be wrong, like in Darat's (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17881) Thread. But when people start posting things like Jesus the bum, Jesus the eunuch, the Nuns with leather straps etc dont you think some people (like shemp) could be a little more respectful? I see no other Theists that go around regularly posting such threads, why cant certain people show the same respect?

More respect on both sides of the issue would be order.

I have seen some theists go so far as to blame the Nazi movement, increased crime rate, drug addiction, social changes, etc. on atheists.

While on the other hand, I have seen atheists blame war, aggression, repression, etc. on the theists.

But the fact is that religious affiliation really has little to do with individual behavior.

In any case, if anyone (atheist, theist, or whatever) is bothering you can use the 'Ignore' feature. If that feature is not adequate, then they can be reported to a Moderator.

I hope this helps!

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Man of jade
You guessed it; Religon. Especially Christianity.

I dont mind people quoting what the pope said and saying it might be wrong, like in Darat's (http://host.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17881) Thread. But when people start posting things like Jesus the bum, Jesus the eunuch, the Nuns with leather straps etc dont you think some people (like shemp) could be a little more respectful? I see no other Theists that go around regularly posting such threads, why cant certain people show the same respect?
Well, it goes both ways. Remember these?

Hitler was an Atheist (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10260)
Is Soubrette the only intelligent atheist on this board? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6735)
Atheism = Intolerant Hate Group (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9919)
Atheism = Intolerant Hate Group (part II) (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10261)
Did Atheists Run The Nazi Gas Chambers? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9921)
Why Do Ahteists Fear The "Idea" of God? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9922)
Is Atheism Communism? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9888)
Atheism = New Master Race? (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10319)
Gas Chamber Atheism (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=7665)

And that was just from one poster. Perhaps Shemp is just balancing the scales. Or maybe he's just a jerk.

Regardless, respect goes two ways.

[c4ts]

If Shemp were to balance the scales, he would have had to call the Christians atheists, and accuse Atilla the Hun of being a Christian, because he was evil.

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by c4ts
If Shemp were to balance the scales, he would have had to call the Christians atheists, and accuse Atilla the Hun of being a Christian, because he was evil. Well, Shemp is just one guy, He's got to make up for all the junk that Franko, Jedi Knight and wraith posted. that's a 1:2 ratio!

:D

[Darwin]

"Hitler was an Atheist
Is Soubrette the only intelligent atheist on this board?
Atheism = Intolerant Hate Group
Atheism = Intolerant Hate Group (part II)
Did Atheists Run The Nazi Gas Chambers?
Why Do Ahteists Fear The "Idea" of God?
Is Atheism Communism?
Atheism = New Master Race?
Gas Chamber Atheism "

Huh.
I´m a newbie in this board but that sure was freaky,posted those as jokes,right?
Only thing that left me feeling a bit disappointed was that it did not seem to include-:
Immoral religious dogma of evolution&nazi movement.

[Darat]

Originally posted by Darwin
"Hitler was an Atheist
Is Soubrette the only intelligent atheist on this board?
Atheism = Intolerant Hate Group
Atheism = Intolerant Hate Group (part II)
Did Atheists Run The Nazi Gas Chambers?
Why Do Ahteists Fear The "Idea" of God?
Is Atheism Communism?
Atheism = New Master Race?
Gas Chamber Atheism "

Huh.
I´m a newbie in this board but that sure was freaky,posted those as jokes,right?
Only thing that left me feeling a bit disappointed was that it did not seem to include-:
Immoral religious dogma of evolution&nazi movement.

Well at least some of them may have been originally "bait" for the "atheists" here ;) but that didn't stop some degenerating into very good discussions.

[Dancing David]

What crossbow said.

I think it is okay to be disrespectful, I didn't stand in front of a church harranguing people with my disrespect either.

Peace
dancing david

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Darwin

Huh.
I´m a newbie in this board but that sure was freaky,posted those as jokes,right?
I dunno. If Jedi Knight (who started the listed threads) was kidding, he's been doing pretty consistantly. and if Jedi was kidding, who is to say Shemp wasn't kidding?

[Walter Wayne]

I'm seeing a lot of the two wrongs make it a right argument.

Walt

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Walter Wayne
I'm seeing a lot of the two wrongs make it a right argument.

Walt
is it an issue of right/wrong? Is it automatically right to have respect for an idea and automatically wrong to have disrespect for an idea?

While there are very few black and white issues in this world, I agree that there probably is a list of some things that it is always right to do and some that are always wrong. I don't know that I would include respect in that list. I've always heard that respect is something that must be given or earned.

Why should one side of an issue give disrespect but expect respect in return?

[Skeptical Greg]

Originally posted by Upchurch

is it an issue of right/wrong? Is it automatically right to have respect for an idea and automatically wrong to have disrespect for an idea?

While there are very few black and white issues in this world, I agree that there probably is a list of some things that it is always right to do and some that are always wrong. I don't know that I would include respect in that list. I've always heard that respect is something that must be given or earned.

Why should one side of an issue give disrespect but expect respect in return?

I just enjoyed this post by Yahzi, that I think is along simialr lines, with a little more detail..

On the one hand, it's wrong to diss someone else's poetry. ....On the other hand, some people seem to think all this crap is actually true. (http://www.randi.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&postid=431697#post431697)

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Upchurch

Why should one side of an issue give disrespect but expect respect in return?

In this post, and in the posting of links to JK threads, I think that you are being a little disengenuous regarding the sides of the issue and who is being respectful.

Aside from people that are widely regarded as trolls (Franko, JK, Muscleman, although lately JK has seemed to have more of an actual point) who here from the theist side of the bench is giving athiests disrespect?

I don't think that I have, and I haven't seen it from Stamenflicker, Potato Stew, Ruby or Christian either. We haven't condemned anyone to hell or anything else. I haven't tried to convert anyone either.

However, the mockery of Christianity comes from many posters who are not widely regarded as trolls, and some of whom are quite popular. For example (off the top of my head) evildave, shemp, Dark Cobra, De_Bunk, Yahzi, ntech and Thaiboxerken.

The board is highly slanted towards athiesm, and I can accept that. But it bothers me when people complain about a lack of respect for athiestic views but Shemp can post a thread entitled "was the virgin mary a whore" and DC can post an "easter" story that has Jesus as a pedophile without a blip.

[Yahzi]

But it bothers me when people complain about a lack of respect for athiestic views
It bothers me, too. I don't expect anybody to worry about my tender feelings when they discuss atheism.

What annoys and frustrates me is when people don't respect reason. I don't care how you say your piece, as long as your piece actually says something meaningful. You want to call me a jerk for being wrong, that's fine: but you better be able to show me how I am wrong.

I don't care what tone you use, as long as you actually have something to say.


EDIT: Thanz, my bitter poisoned missives against Xianity aren't mockery. They're meant to be taken seriously. Just for you, I've posted a new rant in R&P. :D

[Upchurch]

Originally posted by Thanz

In this post, and in the posting of links to JK threads, I think that you are being a little disengenuous regarding the sides of the issue and who is being respectful.
Of course I was, Thanz. Why do you think I was using Jedi Knight as a counter-example to Shemp, for crying out loud?
Aside from people that are widely regarded as trolls (Franko, JK, Muscleman, although lately JK has seemed to have more of an actual point) who here from the theist side of the bench is giving athiests disrespect?
Okay, I'll break it down in to small pieces for you:

1. Shemp is an atheist troll.
2. Man of Jade uses Shemp as an example of how atheists have no respect for theists.
3. Jedi Knight is a theist troll.
4. Upchurch uses Jedi Knight as an exmaple of how theists have no respect for atheists.
5. Upchurch has made a parody of Man of Jade's argument to show that the argument isn't universally valid because of the poor choice of example.

I'm not suggesting the average theist is like Jedi Knight any more than I'd say the average atheist is like Shemp.
However, the mockery of Christianity comes from many posters who are not widely regarded as trolls, and some of whom are quite popular. For example (off the top of my head) evildave, shemp, Dark Cobra, De_Bunk, Yahzi, ntech and Thaiboxerken.
Not regarded as trolls by whom? I'll grant you that some of the people listed aren't full time trolls like the ones you listed above, but you also didn't mention part-time theist trolls. Off the top of my head, I would inlcude Whodini, Interesting Ian and UndercoverElephent (although I'm sure others would disagree with me.)

As for mockery, I personally mock just about everyone from time to time, including myself, on a wide variety of topics. Heck, I've mocked you in this very post, not because of your religious beliefs but because you're smart enough to use the word "disingenuous" (although not to spell it) but not smart enough to catch on to the tongue-in-cheek nature of the post.
The board is highly slanted towards athiesm, and I can accept that.Ultimately, theism requires faith. Skepticism requires questioning faith. I think it is natural that a skeptics board would be slanted against theism, by definition.
But it bothers me when people complain about a lack of respect for athiestic views but Shemp can post a thread entitled "was the virgin mary a whore" and DC can post an "easter" story that has Jesus as a pedophile without a blip.
So, your argument is that when anti-atheist views are posted, atheists complain but when anti-theist views are posted, those same atheists don't complain? In other words, people should stick up for a viewpoint they don't hold or else they are, what? hypocrites? bigots?

What do you want to see happen, Thanz?

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Upchurch


As for mockery, I personally mock just about everyone from time to time, including myself, on a wide variety of topics. Heck, I've mocked you in this very post, not because of your religious beliefs but because you're smart enough to use the word "disingenuous" (although not to spell it) but not smart enough to catch on to the tongue-in-cheek nature of the post.

You are correct - I completely missed the tongue in cheek quality of your post. I responded as if you were serious. I won't fall back on the you didn't use a smiley defence, but I will say that internet text is an imperfect medium for picking up things like sarcasm.



So, your argument is that when anti-atheist views are posted, atheists complain but when anti-theist views are posted, those same atheists don't complain? In other words, people should stick up for a viewpoint they don't hold or else they are, what? hypocrites? bigots?

What do you want to see happen, Thanz?

Well, my point is this. People like Dark Cobra should not be whining for sympathy because people don't respect his athiestic views and at the same time post the crap about Jesus being a pedophile. So, yes, he is a hypocrite, and likely a bigot.

I am not saying you have to stick up for a viewpoint that you don't agree with, but at least be consistent with the right to speak it.

[Skeptical Greg]

Well, my point is this. People like Dark Cobra should not be whining for sympathy because people don't respect his athiestic views and at the same time post the crap about Jesus being a pedophile. So, yes, he is a hypocrite, and likely a bigot.


What you missed here, is that DC is, like, 16 going on 5...

[jimmygun]

I watched a show the other day where leaders of the religious community in some American city met around a table and discussed the world religions. There were Muslims, Christians and Jews. When one of the Christians pointed out that the Muslim religion favoured the killing of infidels, the Muslim representative replied that Christians and Jews were not considered infidels, that those that have heard the word of god and rejected it were the infidels and as such deserved to die.

Everyone at the table accepted that statement, some with pleasant surprise. How much should I, as an atheist, respect religions that agree that I should not be allowed to live? I'll tell you how much I give to someone who would agree with them, zip.

[c4ts]

Originally posted by Darwin

I´m a newbie in this board but that sure was freaky,posted those as jokes,right?

No, they're serious. Look up posts by Jedi Knight.