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-42-
18th September 2005, 09:39 PM
Is there any kind of referance that shows Magicians are by and large skeptics?

I must admit, that I myself had somewhat relegious upbringing. Not very heavy, but I certainly believed - at age of 12 or so - alot that was in the bible. During teen years, I shifted more to 'new age' stuff, but still incorporating the Bible that decreased as years went by - but also took up a hobby of Magic (Both of 'sleight of hand/trickery' variety and even 'spells' -paranormal- variety).

At near-adult years, I still practiced magic (of the trick variety) but stopped altogether with the "real magic", despite big 'hits'. I started to look back on those big hits with a skeptical view, and a more educated viewpoint... and came up with a lot better explainations.....

Which led to more scientific, or skeptical, looks at other things.. And things that really were seen, at that point, to be more common sense than anything. Mostly due to previous lack of information on my part, or desire to find or listen to that information. Information to the phantastical was easy, took little thought. A simple sentance from a woo can explain something that takes science a page - or a book - to explain.

Does 'Conjuring'/magic breed Skepticism?

Is there a link in learning how to fool others that makes you think about you have been fooled (or fooled yourself)?

And then make you THINK more about your assumptions? Things you just assumed were a 'given'?

You also see how easily many people look at what you do and are simply amazed and how easily it would be to transform from saying it was a 'trick' to something more divine or paranormal. It is a very easy step to take, especially if you are not recgonized as a 'tricky magician'....


*"magic" henseforth will be defined of the trickery version ;p

If the case is that knowledge of magic naturally breeds a skeptical look at things, wouldn't "skeptic-teaching" be something to be done at a young age as simple as performing - or teaching - 'magic'? -- And the whole time saying "I am tricking you" and say "I am tricking you like this" and maybe even reveal a very minor trick. (I'm not for revealing everything, though!)

An offer to a Recreational Park by magicians to teach, basic, magic to people? Hmm...... or performing in High Schools during Events? Hmm....

Right Wing people are throwing in ID into schools. Quackary at its best. What about throwing magic into schools under the flag of 'entertainment'?

Again.... Assuming there is any kind of link between Magic/Skepticism. Seems to ME there is, but I admit I have no evidence of this :)

Just an idle thought....

c4ts
18th September 2005, 09:53 PM
If you learn ways to fool others for their entertainment you start to notice when someone else is doing it.

-42-
18th September 2005, 10:11 PM
Originally posted by c4ts
If you learn ways to fool others for their entertainment you start to notice when someone else is doing it.

Are most magicians skeptics?

I really don't know if that's true or not, I would think so (Like you).


Regardless if it IS so, what about teaching magic to people of HS age, or before, either at recreational centers.

.... or under flag of (and rightfully so) entertainment at events ....

Three card monte comes to mind as a popular one delivered to masses. ;) Probably wouldn't 'teach' that one, lol, but certainly one most people are familiar with. (ie: 3 cards, where's the queen, toss them over each other, where's the queen, etc)

But some very basic 'mentalist' magic might go a long way......

sf108
19th September 2005, 12:11 AM
I think practicing magic, or being interested in it does make you more logical in your way of thinking. Actually, I was brought to this site because I used to watch some of Randi's show from the 90's.

And yes, being proficient at fooling people does allow you to be able to detect other's who also are in this business.

Brown
19th September 2005, 04:39 AM
Sad to say, I can name several well-known magicians who are not skeptics... at least not skeptics about everything. They hold beliefs in various forms of quack healing, angels, UFOs, and the like.

Perhaps the most notable example was Doug Henning, and his voluntary surrender to TM nonsense.

And then there are other tricksters who encourage people not to be skeptics. Uri Geller comes to mind.

Azrael 5
19th September 2005, 05:16 AM
Uri Gellar encouraging people not to be skeptics,eh? Wonder why that could be? :D

rustypouch
19th September 2005, 10:30 AM
I would like to think all magicians are skeptics, but I am not so sure.

My local magic shop has a section for "Christian Magic," where you can buy tricks which prove that Jebus is Lard!

-42-
19th September 2005, 08:38 PM
Originally posted by rustypouch
I would like to think all magicians are skeptics, but I am not so sure.

My local magic shop has a section for "Christian Magic," where you can buy tricks which prove that Jebus is Lard!

I'm not sure either if there is a link or a pathway or not. There SEEMS to be.... but.... I'm mostly curious about 'amateur' magicians. Those who either take it up as a hobby - or as far as a 'weekends' thing.

Seems the NATURE of magic makes one (more) skeptical. At least to me.

As for Uri - If one assumes he arrives at his feats through trickery, and not divine means, are you sure he's not skeptical?


But.. if the nature of magic makes one more skeptical, something is to be said for demonstrating it, especially to young minds. Hmm...

jimtron
19th September 2005, 11:44 PM
I was surprised to discover how many at The Magic Cafe (http://www.themagiccafe.com)seem to believe in supernatural powers.

Here are a few threads:

"Pro tarot reader" (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=129398&forum=42)
Aura Reading (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=129282&forum=15)
Morals and psychic readings (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=115395&forum=15)
How many readers here? (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=128369&forum=15)
Palmistry (a science?) (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=131560&forum=15)
Cold reading and "real" psychics (http://www.themagiccafe.com/forums/viewtopic.php?topic=124250&forum=15)

I would have thought the percentage of believers in the paranormal would have been much lower on a magic forum where, presumably, people know how easy it is for the mind to be fooled etc. But I should know better by now.

Some of the above threads are doozies.

Azrael 5
20th September 2005, 03:32 AM
As a member of said forum jimitron I too was amazed.At the moment on there there is a healthy deabte about John Edward that you have missed off your list.I wont link it,its self titled and easy to find.;)

dharlow
20th September 2005, 09:23 AM
Here's an article that touches on this issue:

http://www.tricksterbook.com/ArticlesOnline/MagWhoEndors.htm

In particular take note of the surveys of magicians viewpoints...unfortunately they are a couple of decades old now. It would be interesting to conduct a more recent survey.