Sucks to be gay in Palestine

[DrBenway]

Group fights deportation of Palestinian gays
http://uk.gay.com/headlines/4096

As in many Muslim countries, being gay in the Palestinian territories is treated as a crime against Islam. In most cases non-state actors, like the family, become the judge, jury and juror to decide a gay person's fate. Reports of Nazi-style treatment of openly gay Palestinians are common.

Rescue Project Director Shaul Genon said the Aguda had identified at least 100 Palestinian gays in Israel.

"Only 25 of them want us to help them," Genon said. "The others avoid coming forward, fearful of their family's wrath more than that of the Palestinian Authority."

Genon said though his Rescue Project had been helping Palestinian and Arab gays for the last four years and prevented three women and eight men from being deported so far, the situation for Palestinian gays worsened since the 9/11 attacks in the United States.

"All the doors had been closed since then. Nobody wants to help them, and most of these young people have no money. The situation is just too bad," Genon said. Without mentioning the Iraq War, Genon said the Rescue Project's work gained urgency with an increased stringency in Israel policy in the last three months.

[Tony]

They should move to Israel, where being gay is legal and generally accepted.

[Cleopatra]

Many things suck when you are a Palestinian Doctor...

Hmmmm I wouldn't say that Tony...

Generally speaking, in very religious societies it's difficult to be out of the "norm".

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by Tony
They should move to Israel, where being gay is legal and generally accepted.
Like moving to any country, there's a process. Sometimes due to visa hassles, people get deported.

I wish people would stand up for gay rights within Palestine.

[Tony]

Originally posted by DrBenway

Like moving to any country, there's a process. Sometimes due to visa hassles, people get deported.

I wish people would stand up for gay rights within Palestine.

So do I Dr, but you know they are too busy persecuting the free country of Isreal to worry about gay rights in palestine.

[Fade]

Generally speaking, in very religious societies it's difficult to be out of the "norm".

Judaism is among the more tolerant religions on earth. Also, Israel isn't religious in the same sense that, say, Iran is.

[Cleopatra]

Judaism is among the more tolerant religions on earth. Also, Israel isn't religious in the same sense that, say, Iran is.

What?????

Israel is religious the same way Greece is. Well Greece isn't exactly a paradise for being a gay. My business associate, a respectful barister, could tell you a lot of stories on how is to be a gay in a religious country.

edited to add... Methinks that there is not such a thing as a tolerant religion...

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Cleopatra


What?????

Israel is religious the same way Greece is. Well Greece isn't exactly a paradise for being a gay. My business associate, a respectful barister, could tell you a lot of stories on how is to be a gay in a religious country.

edited to add... Methinks that there is not such a thing as a tolerant religion...

lets face it, many countries have gay bashings and homicides. There have been several notable cases in my own home town over recent years. Although they are shown a lot of tolerance, and I have worked with some openly gay people, they still have to watch their backs if they go out at night.

I hope Palestine improves it's record on all civil rights. Hopefully, when peace is achieved (?), then more basic human rights will be addressed. As it is, extremist Muslims are the ones promising the Palestinians freedom, and actively supporting them. I think their allegiences will go that way. A similary event happened in Iran with the overthrow of the Shah. It was once again the extremist Muslims who delivered. That got them a lot of credibility around the world.

[DrBenway]

In support of the gay Palestinians, I'm changing my avatar to a more faggy image of David Bowie.

Peace comes through agreement. People of all walks of life can usually be brought to agreement over basic human rights issues, when the matter is discussed openly and frequently enough. Logically, what alternative exists?

[Mike B.]

Why do I get the feeling that if this article was about gay Israelis being killed, AUP would start a thread like this, in his usual loaded question style:

Israel a genocidal homophobic state?:p

[Skeptic]

I hope Palestine improves it's record on all civil rights.

Perhaps they should make a start by stopping the butchery of jewish children on school buses with suicide bombers.

Just a suggestion.

Hopefully, when peace is achieved (?), then more basic human rights will be addressed.

Yes, just like gays and other minorities have SO many rights in the rest of the 21 Arab nations and 35-odd Muslim nations in the world.

Oh wait. Being gay (or Christian, for that matter) is usually a capital offense in those havens of human rights.

Never mind.

Why don't you hope that pigs will fly, AUP? The chances of THAT are significantly better than those of arabs or muslims respecting civil rights.

As it is, extremist Muslims are the ones promising the Palestinians freedom,

Actually, if they had wanted freedom, they could have had that by now--israel offered a palestinian state in 2000. Besides, the muslim extremists of course despise freedom and human rights, let alone gay rights.

What the extremist muslims are REALLY promising isn't freedom, but the butchery of the jews and the destruction of israel--the real palestinian national goals.

[Cleopatra]

Originally posted by Mike B.
Why do I get the feeling that if this article was about gay Israelis being killed, AUP would start a thread like this, in his usual loaded question style:

Israel a genocidal homophobic state?:p

Mr. Unique, you must admit that this was a good one :)

[Segnosaur]

Isn't there an organization called something like "Gays for Palestine" in the United States? (It may have been in one of the brain-terminal videos.)

Ironic, a group protesting for an independant Palestinian state, who would most likely persecute them if they lived there.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by Mike B.
Why do I get the feeling that if this article was about gay Israelis being killed, AUP would start a thread like this, in his usual loaded question style:

Israel a genocidal homophobic state?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Mr. Unique, you must admit that this was a good one



Would I answer a hypothetical question?

I don't doubt that Israel has it's good points. I don't doubt that Israel is here to stay. I don't doubt that many Israelis want peace.

There are two issues I try to hilight.

1. There is a huge, unquestioning, uncritical push for Israel, as can be seen in this forum. I am just trying to raise questions. As I have said already, just because Israel is a democracy does not mean it is automatically moral and correct in all it's actions. To believe so is absurd. I try to point out that there are clear examples of Israeli hypocrisy and lying.

There are plenty of examples provided about Palestinians. No effort is needed here. If I was to say I think it is time for Arafat to go, no one is going to debate me on the issue.

Similarly, the terrors of the USSR, and in particular Stalin, would raise no debate here. We all agree that what was done to the people of Russia was wrong. However, there is still a huge amount of debate as to the what errors the US has made in the past. Many still seem to believe it is beyond criticism, or that they are obliged to reject all criticism of it.

2. I really do ask questions. Look at my thread on Thirteen Days.

3. I know that in the arena of political debate, there is no scientific method of determining truth. I raised this point when I first joined the forum. No matter what facts or points you raise in politics, you will never convince people that some ideas are right or wrong. So, a question is asked because I know that it will be debated, unless I feel there is clear evidence of a point.

4. I try to make a distinction between Israel the State and the Israeli people. Many actions carried out by the Israeli state would horrify the people if they knew what was going on, I believe. The use of flechette munitions, for example. These are designed for one use only, wide range anti-personell attacks.

[Baker]

Originally posted by a_unique_person

1. There is a huge, unquestioning, uncritical push for Israel, as can be seen in this forum. I am just trying to raise questions. As I have said already, just because Israel is a democracy does not mean it is automatically moral and correct in all it's actions. To believe so is absurd. I try to point out that there are clear examples of Israeli hypocrisy and lying.

There are plenty of examples provided about Palestinians. No effort is needed here. If I was to say I think it is time for Arafat to go, no one is going to debate me on the issue.

You have already admitted they wish to destroy Israel.
I don't see you questioning the Arab dictatorships and lack of human rights.


4. I try to make a distinction between Israel the State and the Israeli people. Many actions carried out by the Israeli state would horrify the people if they knew what was going on, I believe. The use of flechette munitions, for example. These are designed for one use only, wide range anti-personell attacks.

And whom are they targeting?

[DrBenway]

If there were a big Palestinian baby boom.

And the force of all that youth pushed aside for a moment the crusty old notions of the elders.

With teenage zeal, the boomers elevate goofing off as an artform. Suddenly flowers appear in everyone's hair. Downtown Ramallah stages a love-in. A crowd sings, "All we are say-ing... is give peace a chance."

Just to piss of their parents, vast numbers of Israelis and Palestinians shack up together, thereby creating a new race of Israelians and rendering the whole real estate thing meaningless.

Ok, back to bed!

[Victor Danilchenko]

Yes, that would be cool. I also really like the solution to race problem proposed in the movie 'Bullworth'. the title character says something like this: "I want to destroy white people. And I want to destroy black people. let everyone f&ck each other until we are all the same color".

[Cleopatra]

Ahhhhhhh

You must see a superb movie, by one of the most important directors of our era, Stephen Frears " Sammy and Rosie make love"

It has to do with the posts of Doctor and Victor!

My Jewish grandmother, the one who survived the camp, was a polyglote, she was speaking eight languages, she was writting five, she used to say that there is only one place where you can learn languages , foreign civilizations and get rid of prejudices: Bed.