EdenPURE heaters

[kmortis]

Anyone here ever hear of EdenPURE heaters? Some of their claims are, um, questionable. However, I cannot find anything that sayd they don't work as advertized.

http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=33_36&products_id=72&osCsid=0c7dbbd633345d7e8bc99cd4c902fbf3

[Dilb]

That's utterly absurd. Heat transfer from a moderately warm object will occur by convection (air) or conduction (solid things), and a little radiation, though it's a much smaller effect. Conduction is very slow over any appreciable distance, and is extremely uneven. Therefore, it must heat by convection, like every other heater ever.

The only way to move heat around move efficiently than your standard electrical resistance "toaster" sort of appliance, is by burning stuff, or by using a heat pump (which is an air conditioner running backwards). This thing is neither (as far as I can tell from the pictures), so it can't possibly be more efficient.

Any heating will reduce the relative humidity of the air, because it depends on temperature. Unless the thing is hooked up to water it can't possibly heat up a room without decreasing the humidity.

Furthermore, no heater ever produced dangerous radiation, unless some crazy person tried heating their home with UV black lights.

[StaticEngine]

It's a quartz coil heater. Nothing special, although probably overpriced.

[CaveDave]

That's utterly absurd. Heat transfer from a moderately warm object will occur by convection (air) or conduction (solid things), and a little radiation, though it's a much smaller effect. Conduction is very slow over any appreciable distance, and is extremely uneven. Therefore, it must heat by convection, like every other heater ever.

The only way to move heat around move efficiently than your standard electrical resistance "toaster" sort of appliance, is by burning stuff, or by using a heat pump (which is an air conditioner running backwards). This thing is neither (as far as I can tell from the pictures), so it can't possibly be more efficient.

Any heating will reduce the relative humidity of the air, because it depends on temperature. Unless the thing is hooked up to water it can't possibly heat up a room without decreasing the humidity.

Furthermore, no heater ever produced dangerous radiation, unless some crazy person tried heating their home with UV black lights.
What Dilb said. Exactly.

Also, just look at some of the other junk they sell (and the prices) to get an idea of their market segment.

Dave

[kmortis]

What Dilb said. Exactly.

Also, just look at some of the other junk they sell (and the prices) to get an idea of their market segment.

Dave

It's kind of what I thought. Since I couldn't find anything specific, tho, it was just my Spideysense that was a'tingling. I'd never heard of cured copper (nor could I find anything on any of my normal material science sites or google). The "heats up a room in minutes" was too vauge for my tastes, and the claim that only this point source could evenly heat a room seemed very, uh, suspicious to me.

But, since I couldn't find anything about it, I figured I'd ask for a second opinion. Thanks.

[Goshawk]

I'd never heard of cured copper (nor could I find anything on any of my normal material science sites or google).
I don't see a mention of "cured copper" on the web page. Did they perhaps remove it?

Other than that, there's nothing on there that's particularly "woo". It's all pretty straightforward. Advertisers have been claiming for decades that something will do something in "only minutes"--but they don't say how many minutes. This is considered a valid sales technique.

And it's not woo to claim that a quartz heater doesn't put out carbon monoxide, or that it won't set your clothes on fire, because those things are true of all quartz heaters.

So, sorry, but I don't see much to get excited about.

Although I did find the "decorator color of black with burled wood accent" euphemism for "brown and black plastic" amusing. :D

And I did have to grudgingly admire this:
And, as you know, portable heaters only heat an area a few feet around the heater.
Implying that their heater doesn't do this, but if you examine it, they're selling a space heater, aren't they? So their heater DOES do this.

I don't see much else in their catalog that's particularly woo, either. Foot massagers and vitamin supplements, mostly. But the Oil Additive (http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=106&osCsid=0c7dbbd633345d7e8bc99cd4c902fbf3) was interesting--again, pure-D Madison Avenue advertising-speak, with nary a sentence to interest the legal beagles at the FTC, all perfectly factual and above-board, but wonderfully constructed so as to imply miracles.

It's just Madison Avenue, not Woo City.

[Goshawk]

Some of their claims are, um, questionable. That's because you're doing what you're told and allowing them to create implications in your mind. You're filling in the blanks for them, and coming to the conclusion that their product is somehow mysteriously "better" or "different" than other similar products. Which is what it's designed to do, as a piece of advertising copy.

You have to look at each sentence literally, the way a fraud-sniffing legal beagle from the FTC would approach it. There's not a single sentence in there that is potentially litigious; it's all completely factual. Their successful sales pitch rests in the implication that their product is somehow better than the competition's product, but there's not a single statement there that their product makes use of unknown or mysterious technology. That's what separates the truly woo from the merely "new and improved"--the truly woo gives you a lot of gobbledygook and pseudo-jargon, but there's nothing like that here. It's a quartz space heater, exactly as advertised. They're not advertising anything they aren't prepared to deliver.

[Alkatran]

That's because you're doing what you're told and allowing them to create implications in your mind. You're filling in the blanks for them, and coming to the conclusion that their product is somehow mysteriously "better" or "different" than other similar products. Which is what it's designed to do, as a piece of advertising copy.

You have to look at each sentence literally, the way a fraud-sniffing legal beagle from the FTC would approach it. There's not a single sentence in there that is potentially litigious; it's all completely factual. Their successful sales pitch rests in the implication that their product is somehow better than the competition's product, but there's not a single statement there that their product makes use of unknown or mysterious technology. That's what separates the truly woo from the merely "new and improved"--the truly woo gives you a lot of gobbledygook and pseudo-jargon, but there's nothing like that here. It's a quartz space heater, exactly as advertised. They're not advertising anything they aren't prepared to deliver.

The EdenPure® will also make you healthier. That is because, unlike other heating sources, it will not reduce humidity or oxygen in the room. Typical heating sources reduce humidity which dries out your sinuses, makes you more susceptible to disease and makes your skin dry. With other heating sources, you'll notice that you get sleepy when the heat comes on because they are burning up oxygen. (emphasis mine)

That claim seems pretty straight forward to me. Or are they just going for "we raised the temperature, the raise of temperature is what did it, not us..."

The advanced space-age EdenPure® Quartz Infrared Portable Heater also heats the room evenly, wall-to-wall and floor-to-ceiling. followed by the 'other heaters don't...'

Once again, this is a claim about the heater, not a claim about other heaters implying something.

Unlike other heating sources, the EdenPure® cannot put poisonous carbon monoxide into a room or any type of fumes or any type of harmful radiation.

This one bugs me. I get the feeling this can't be helped on the atomic level. (There must be some impurity in the construction that lets you end up with a few radioactive atoms in there)

[John Jackson]

The advanced space-age EdenPure® Quartz Infrared Portable Heater also heats the room evenly, wall-to-wall and floor-to-ceiling. Other heating sources heat rooms unevenly with most of the heat concentrated high in the room and to the center of the room.
How does it stop heat rising?

I agree there is a lot of advertising speak on there, but there are some highly dubious claims too.

[kmortis]

I don't see a mention of "cured copper" on the web page. Did they perhaps remove it?

Wow, I didn't realize that there was that much a difference between the print ad that I had in my paper, and the link. Of course, I didn't read all the link, either....:rr:

Ok, so here's a link to a copy of the print ad.
http://server1.mcall.p2ionline.com/p2idailyads/advfullpage.aspx?area=ROP&webstoryid=9248824&advID=883041&advertisername=EdenPURE

It's a bit difficult to read, but the first mention of "cured copper" is in the first column, near the bottom. If I can find a better copy, I'll link it, or if it become that interesting to people, I can scan in the paper copy I have.

Basically, I'm not going to waste nigh $400 on something that I could probably get for much less. Or, I'll save it and upgrade the insulation and therefore increase the efficency of my house.

[Goshawk]

I found this Google cache (http://www.fieldlines.com/story/2005/5/27/161847/404) discussing something similar:
What you have here is a radiatior that's heated by infrared bulbs. This is along the lines of that amazing anodized aluminum thing awhile ago that would thaw out meat quickly, so the ad claimed. It was little more than a large black anodized aluminum heatsink. So it might actually help to thaw meat faster, as heatsinks serve as a means of equalizing temperatures, but not much. However, if you use lots of little sparkly special effects, and use the words "anodized" and "special" then it's a wonderful product, worth $19.95. Or those "cell phone antennas" - little stickers of gold foil that probably cost about a half a cent to make, but sold for $19.95.

Cured copper? Most people have never heard of this (it seems it does exist, used in pipe organs (http://www.saintmarks.org/Music/The%20Organs.html))...I'm guessing that "cured copper" is a kind of annealing process.

So.

Nothing strange or dubious here. He's designed a space heater that consists of an infrared quartz heat source warming up sheets or pieces of copper, which, surrounded by a plastic case, slowly radiate what must be a very small amount of heat into the room. Since it's billed as only being capable of heating "up to" 1,000 square feet, and since I notice that he isn't promising anything about how warm it will make said room, this tells me that it really doesn't put out much heat at all.

So no, this doesn't affect the humidity in the room--because there isn't enough heat coming out of it to do that.

And it doesn't affect the oxygen in the room--because there's no combustion taking place.

How does it stop heat rising?You're not reading it literally enough. He's not claiming that he can stop heat from rising--he's claiming that his space heater heats the room evenly.

Which it does. Which all space heaters do. All space heaters affect the air molecules in a room evenly. It's just that some air molecules are closer to the heat source, and so they pick up more heat, and that part of the room becomes warmer. But the influence that the heater exerts on all the molecules in the room is equal.

You all are still not reading this literally enough--you're reading implications in it that aren't there. Madison Avenue gotcha. :D

This one bugs me. I get the feeling this can't be helped on the atomic level. (There must be some impurity in the construction that lets you end up with a few radioactive atoms in there)
If you know of a way that copper putting out low-temperature infrared heat can emit carbon monoxide, fumes, or radioactivity, the FDA, the FTC, the DOE, and the Atomic Energy Commission would like to know about it. :D In order for copper to get hot enough to emit toxic fumes, you have to have it at welding temperatures.

I agree there is a lot of advertising speak on there, but there are some highly dubious claims too.

I still don't see any dubious claims, other than what you're reading into it. Read it literally. He's not saying anything he can't back up.

[Goshawk]

And look--I found nearly the same thing.

http://www.thewgalchannel.com/money/5011143/detail.html

LEOLA, Pa. -- With grim predictions about the cost to heat homes this winter, a new product now offered in Lancaster County could save homeowners a little cash.

It's called the Sun Twin. It's an electric heater that uses solid copper heat exchangers and quartz infrared heating elements to warm the air. A fan then pushes the warm air back into the room.

Ginny Fuller, the owner of Leola Heater Center in Lancaster County, sells the heaters. She said she used one last year and it saved her more than $1,000 on her oil bills.

"When you can put something in your house and turn it on and heat 800 square feet for approximately a dollar a day -- stop and think about that -- a dollar a day. This is something you've got to consider," Fuller said.

The heater sells for about $400. The heating elements should last around 15 years and cost around $20 each to replace. If you're interested in the heater, you can call the Leola Heating Center at...No woo here, just hype.

[Iamme]

How does it stop heat rising?

From the plasma-osmosis di-colateral generator, built in.

[Iamme]

MOST ads, for products today, are at least somewhat dubious. We have to ask ourselves if we want the advertising police to protect the little old lady who doesn't understand stuff very well, or if it shoud be caveat emptor.

I watch paid informercials all the time and am forever talking to the tv, or smiling, regarding the stuff they say and how they say it. You KNOW that they are trying to dupe people, yet they somehow can get away with it, the way they legally word what they say. (Here is just one ecxample that quickly comes to mind: They are advertising this new miracle product called "Scram!" It is a cleaner that is so powerful that they claim it can clean toilet bowls... and they show how they just cleaned a god-awful looking toilet bowl that you just know they rigged with easy-to-clean dirty matter. So I scream at the tv, " Use some damn water on it first! Then try some water and dish soap on it, first, you stupid (&(*^*$#%##%!!!!!

[Alkatran]

If you know of a way that copper putting out low-temperature infrared heat can emit carbon monoxide, fumes, or radioactivity, the FDA, the FTC, the DOE, and the Atomic Energy Commission would like to know about it. :D In order for copper to get hot enough to emit toxic fumes, you have to have it at welding temperatures.

Oh god no, that's not what I meant. I was saying that to make the claim that it will not put out ANY radiation, they'd have to ensure that there was no way any radioactive element (isn't there c-14 in the atmosphere?) made its way inside...

But in any case it was meant as a nitpick, not a complaint.

[CaveDave]

MOST ads, for products today, are at least somewhat dubious. We have to ask ourselves if we want the advertising police to protect the little old lady who doesn't understand stuff very well, or if it shoud be caveat emptor.

I watch paid informercials all the time and am forever talking to the tv, or smiling, regarding the stuff they say and how they say it. You KNOW that they are trying to dupe people, yet they somehow can get away with it, the way they legally word what they say. (Here is just one ecxample that quickly comes to mind: They are advertising this new miracle product called "Scram!" It is a cleaner that is so powerful that they claim it can clean toilet bowls... and they show how they just cleaned a god-awful looking toilet bowl that you just know they rigged with easy-to-clean dirty matter. So I scream at the tv, " Use some damn water on it first! Then try some water and dish soap on it, first, you stupid (&(*^*$#%##%!!!!!

Jeebus, Iamme, if you are aware enough to make this arguably insightful post, how is it you manage to post some of the other stuff that positively defies description?

Dave

[CaveDave]

I don't see much else in their catalog that's particularly woo, either. Foot massagers and vitamin supplements, mostly. But the Oil Additive (http://www.biotechresearch.com/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=106&osCsid=0c7dbbd633345d7e8bc99cd4c902fbf3) was interesting--again, pure-D Madison Avenue advertising-speak, with nary a sentence to interest the legal beagles at the FTC, all perfectly factual and above-board, but wonderfully constructed so as to imply miracles.

It's just Madison Avenue, not Woo City.
I mentioned the other items not because they were "woo" as such, but they were aimed squarely at a gullible audience. $30.00 US for miracle foam insoles? You gettin' some of those?

Dave

[kmortis]

I mentioned the other items not because they were "woo" as such, but they were aimed squarely at a gullible audience. $30.00 US for miracle foam insoles? You gettin' some of those?

Dave

And I think that's why we got this ad. I live in an area that is mainly heated by oil. With the current state of oil prices, many are scrambling to be able to heat their houses this winter. We aren't known for our mild winters. Honestly, if it wasn't due to this fact, I wouldn't have given this a second thought, just written it off as Mad Ave. crap.

[bruto]

It seems there will always be a bit of woo involved in heaters. Of course, if you turn on an electric heater, you'll save on oil bills. Oddly enough, you'll probably notice a little increase in your electric bills. Until this year that would have been a pretty poor tradeoff. I'm not sure, but this year it just might be the first time that electric will be cheaper than oil.

I imagine that the Edenpure heater does essentially what it claims, because electric heaters generally work pretty well, and getting heat from electricity isn't rocket science. Since any electric resistance heater approaches 100% efficiency, you just need to choose how you want that heat to get to where you want it. Quartz heaters and the old-fashioned reflectors tend to radiate a lot, heating up objects and people, but not heating up the air very well, and they get nasty hot. Put a fan in it and it heats up the air and blows it around. Use the resistance heat to heat up a body of water or other large heatsink, and you'll get convection without a great deal of draft. You can get any of these effects, or a combination of them, for a whole lot less than $389! A nice barn heater costs about 25 bucks new, and gives you 100 percent efficiency, safety, and a good combination of radiation and forced convection. If you don't want a draft, get a cheap oil-filled electric radiator. If you don't want to have to look at it, get one of those overpriced Pelonis "furnaces," preferably at a tag sale, or get one of its Asian clones, and set the tiny little cube on the floor. By the way, overpriced as it is, the Pelonis is pretty nicely made, and it does distribute its heat rather well.


I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that it is untrue that heaters decrease room humidity. The air gets drier in winter without the assistance of the heater. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that heating up air makes it drier.

[Diogenes]

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that heating up air makes it drier.Well, relatively, it does..

http://daphne.palomar.edu/jthorngren/measures.htm

Key point to remember: Given that the amount of water vapor is held constant, then if you
--reduce the temperature, the relative humidity goes up
--increase the temperature, the relative humidity goes down.

[TjW]

I may be wrong, but I'm under the impression that it is untrue that heaters decrease room humidity. The air gets drier in winter without the assistance of the heater. Please correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think that heating up air makes it drier.

Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air.
Relative humidity is the ratio between the water vapor currently in the air, and the maximum amount it can hold.
Heating air doesn't take water out of the air. There's the same amount of water, but the warmer air can hold more water vapor, so the ratio between the existing amount and the maximum changes.
So, really cold outside air at a reasonable RH, when warmed up to a comfortable room temperature, will have a very low RH, even though the amount of water vapor in the air hasn't changed.

[bruto]

Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air.
Relative humidity is the ratio between the water vapor currently in the air, and the maximum amount it can hold.
Heating air doesn't take water out of the air. There's the same amount of water, but the warmer air can hold more water vapor, so the ratio between the existing amount and the maximum changes.
So, really cold outside air at a reasonable RH, when warmed up to a comfortable room temperature, will have a very low RH, even though the amount of water vapor in the air hasn't changed.

OK, that makes sense.

[JumpJack]

Anybody hear/try a similar heater call Portable Furnace? Apparently it uses a heat exchanger similar to a furnace (hence the claim about increased efficiency over regular space heaters). These too are pricey but I've seen them sold on eBay for around $350.

[tsg]

Warm air can hold more water vapor than cold air.
Relative humidity is the ratio between the water vapor currently in the air, and the maximum amount it can hold.
Heating air doesn't take water out of the air. There's the same amount of water, but the warmer air can hold more water vapor, so the ratio between the existing amount and the maximum changes.
So, really cold outside air at a reasonable RH, when warmed up to a comfortable room temperature, will have a very low RH, even though the amount of water vapor in the air hasn't changed.

This is true. The website, however, only says "humidity" and not "relative humidity" so, if they mean "absolute humidity" (which is the amount of moisture per pound of dry air), then they are correct. It is also correct, however, for other forms of heat.

But, and this is just playing devil's advocate, radiant heat tends to be more comfortable humidity-wise simply because the air coming from a forced air system is much hotter than the room air and draws moisture from your sinuses and mucous membranes like a hair dryer would. That may be what they mean, however it is poorly worded at best.

I also find it amusing that they base their 50% energy savings on turning off the furnace and only heating the room you are in. This may well be true but it relies on everybody in the house being in the same room or not minding the cold (in which case just turn the furnace off and don't buy the heater).

[tsg]

How does it stop heat rising?

Technically it doesn't. Radiant heaters work by warming surfaces which then warm the air. Forced air systems are going to have a bigger temperature difference between cieling and floor simply because the hot air (much hotter than the room air) will rise. In a standard house, the cieling height usually isn't high enough to make this much of a difference so they are overstating the magnitude of the problem by a bit (standard ad-speak) but not being entirely inaccurate.

It should be noted that radiant heaters work best when they are primarily warming the floor which this one doesn't appear to do very well.

[curt]

No woo here, just hype.
In the article you cite, the claim is made that the person saved a $1000 that year on her heating bill. I'm very skeptical of this unless it's some kind of unfair unstated comparison such as "I save a grand because I just used this heater and didn't heat the rest of the house." Hard for me to imagine the math where someone can save $1000 by use of a space heater.

[luchog]

In the article you cite, the claim is made that the person saved a $1000 that year on her heating bill. I'm very skeptical of this unless it's some kind of unfair unstated comparison such as "I save a grand because I just used this heater and didn't heat the rest of the house." Hard for me to imagine the math where someone can save $1000 by use of a space heater.
Well, it really depends on what the final cost differential is between electricity and whatever else (usually heating-oil, kerosene, or natural gas) one is using to heat one's house with.

[Freethinker]

Hard for me to imagine the math where someone can save $1000 by use of a space heater.

When I used to live in a trailer, the first gas bill I got was US$250:eek: -more than a weeks gross pay. I cut it by about $100 a month by lowering the thermostat to 55F, using a space heater to warm the bathroom and staying at a bar until it was time to go to bed. You'd have to be using a bunch of oil to save $1000 in one winter.

[tsg]

In the article you cite, the claim is made that the person saved a $1000 that year on her heating bill. I'm very skeptical of this unless it's some kind of unfair unstated comparison such as "I save a grand because I just used this heater and didn't heat the rest of the house."

If you read the Q&A section (http://www.edenpureheater.com/qanda.php), this is precisely what they are saying:
Q. How can a person cut their heating bill by up to 50% with the EdenPURE?

A. First, the EdenPURE uses less energy to create heat than other sources, but that is just part of why it will cut a person’s heating bill. The EdenPURE will heat a room in minutes. Therefore, you can turn the heat down in your house to as low as 50 degrees, but the room you are occupying, which has the EdenPURE, will be warm and comfortable. The EdenPURE is portable. When you move to another room, it will quickly heat that room also. This can drastically cut heating bills, in some instances, by up to 50%.

What they aren't saying is that this is true for any portable space heater.

ETA: Just to make it more accurate:

A. First, the EdenPURE uses [slightly] less energy to create heat than other sources [such as rubbing two sticks together], but that is just [a tiny] part of why it will cut a person’s heating bill. The EdenPURE will heat a room in [very many] minutes. Therefore, you can turn the heat down in your house to as low as 50 degrees, but the room you are occupying, which has the EdenPURE, will be warm and comfortable [providing everyone in the house is in this room or doesn't mind being cold]. The EdenPURE is portable [as are other portable heaters]. When you move to another room, it will quickly [for small values of "quickly"] heat that room also. This can drastically cut heating bills [by not heating the house], in some [very rare, possibly non-existent] instances, by up to [ie. "much less than"] 50%.

[tsg]

When you move to another room, it will quickly [for small values of "quickly"] heat that room also.

Back of the napkin calculation:

The model 1000 is rated at 5000 BTUH and, according to the website, can handle a 1000 sq ft room.

Assuming an 8ft cieling height, that's 8000 cubic feet of air.
Assuming standard air at 13.34 cubic feet per pound, that's roughly 600 lbs of air.
Assuming a starting temp of 50°F and an ending temp of 70°F is a delta-T of 20°F

Specific heat of air is .244861 BTU/lb/°F.
600 lbs * 20 °F * .244861 BTU/lb/°F = 2936 BTU.
2936 BTU / 5000 BTU/hr = .59 hrs = 35 minutes.

This is assuming no heat loss from the room at all. Now, considering that there is a heat loss to the outside (or we wouldn't need heat) and that all the surrounding rooms are at 50°F (that's what the furnace is set for) and the interior walls are significantly less insulated than the exterior, I'm betting it's closer to two hours if it even ever gets there. The heat loss to the surrounding rooms and outside could very well be greater than 5000 BTU/hr.

ETA: "and outside"

[tsg]

The heat loss to the surrounding rooms and outside could very well be greater than 5000 BTU/hr.

Another back of the napkin calculation:

Standard interior wall construction has a U-value of .34 BTU/hr/°F/sqft. Assuming a square room with 8 foot cielings and two interior walls, that's 505 sq ft of wall area for a heat loss of roughly 3440 BTU/hr just to the surrounding rooms. With three interior walls the heat loss is 5160 BTU/hr.

[cudejm]

Despite the infomercial type hype and claims made for the EdenPure heater I decided to try it. I work for a company that allows me to ship personal packages via UPS and I only pay the very low rates they pay, so a small return shipping charge was my only risk. As well If I had to send it back I would get the joy of writing Paul Harvey and tell him he is endorsing a piece of junk.

What I wanted to find out is if the heater will heat the air without drying it out which is just one of their many claims. My house is ALL electric so running the central electric heater is VERY expensive. I have tried a myriad of different types of space heaters and the savings you get from them ALL come by turning down the energy hog central heating system, and only heating the area you are currently occupying. Most of the modern heaters are very efficient and up until now a Pelonis Honeycomb Disc Furnace V purchased at Home Depot was my favorite heater. The Pelonis is tiny compared to the Eden Pure and uses 5 ceramic disc and a variable speed fan which goes slower and slower as you get closer to the desired temperature. The one thing I do not like about the Pelonis and all other space heaters I have tried is the air begins to dry out which for me causes some sinus issues. Yes I know I could use a humidifier but I decided to try the over priced Eden Pure fully expecting I would be boxing it up and shipping it back after giving it a try.

As it turns out this is a pretty good heater. It should be considering the price. It is safe since the heating elements are inside a huge cabinet. The heated air that comes out the front vent is not hot enough to ignite newspaper so it is about as safe as you can get for a space heater. Every winter you see lots of news stories of fires started by space heaters so being able to leave this heater unattended without worrying about coming back to a burned down house is a definite plus. The other good thing is it uses a commercial Honeywell thermostat on the EdenPure. It is not digital so you can’t dial in a specific temperature but after experimenting I found out where to leave the dial to keep the area at a comfortable temperature. If I come home and the house is freezing I can crank it to high for a while then dial it back until I hear the thermostat click when the room begins to feel warmer, and the heater maintains that temp by cycling on and off as needed. If I know a cold front is due in over night I can set it at the point on the dial that will keep the bedroom and bath area just warm enough to be comfortable when I have to pry myself out of the warm bed.

The verdict for me is even though they use these ridiculous infomercial tactics and stupid claims about cured copper this is a good heater that is safe to use and leave on even when you are not home which is something you can not say for most other space heaters. As well the room air does not seem as dry out as much which will be a benefit to my sinuses. Probably just buying a humidifier and using my 70 dollar Pelonis would have worked as well but for me the EdenPure does the trick with one safe if not overpriced heater.

[Iamme]

Paul Harvey's endorsement was on today, again. In all honesty, I think he is like any other celeb that endorses. What does that going-on 90? year old news commentator know about the physics involved? He probably was talked into the endorsement by being told that people will get their money back if not satisfied.

That said...I really do believe it could very well be POSSIBLE to design the electric element that powers and heats, that it will transfer to the air more heat per given time, in the same way that hydronic heating gives off a given amount of heat through IT'S tubing way better when fins are attached to the copper tubing (which creates more total inches of metal for which the copper can dissipate heat to the air). You'd think that the same concept would hold true for electricy passing through an element if one can attach something to the element to transfer more heat to the air.

I'm not so sure though about that whole story about how regular heaters cook the air though. For the last few days, I was working down a cold basement. I set up my small cube heater with a box fan in front of it, to send heated air everywhere down there. In no time, it felt toasty. I then pitted that, with the memory I had last year where some woman bragged to me about one of these EdenPure like) "radiant" heaters ( I think utilizing oil-bath technology), and she said it made the entire basement ROOM...one ROOM... it was in feel real nice. But she could have been brainwashed into believing this. I had her run it while I was there and about 1/2 hour later, I could not feel that there was any more heat in the room than when it was off. Hmmm.

I would really like to hear someone explain the science behind the EdenPure, so I can determine, from laws of science, that the EdenPure indeed transfers more heat, per watt, to the air, than a conventional ribbon electric space heater with fan, or one of the ceramic ones. Also, I do not know whether I should buy into their notion ...their claim...that the heat from the EdenPure just doesn't go straight up like conventional heaters...but willl actually heat uniformly and heat the floor as well. That cube heater I had, plus fan, swirled the heated air everywhere. Without a fan at all, I'd imagine the heat would go up. But in due time, after it went up, it would also then warm the room everywhere. I can't see how the EdenPure can send out the heat without having the warm air all rise...first. They claim it "rides" the moisture in the air. But even so...that heated moisture should rise! And if it does do that...then they are lying in their ad. And if they lie about that..then what else are they lying about?

Something else bothers me about the whole money saving concept: They want you to turn down your thermostat to like 50, while you run the EdenPure in the room you are in? Hmmm. Who can live right like that? I get up and move about a lot; living room on couch...then in kitchen making meal...then on the pot, after I ate my meal :), etc. And this is when a person is single. What if you have a family? Are they supposed to be in other rooms in the house, freezing, at 50, while you have the EdenPure in front of YOU, while watching tv in some room?

Are you supposed to move this unit with you from room to room? When you go to bed, then you bring it in the bedroom with you? This whole aspect, sounds goofy.

[TjW]

<snippage by TjW>
What I wanted to find out is if the heater will heat the air without drying it out which is just one of their many claims. My house is ALL electric so running the central electric heater is VERY expensive. I have tried a myriad of different types of space heaters and the savings you get from them ALL come by turning down the energy hog central heating system, and only heating the area you are currently occupying. Most of the modern heaters are very efficient and up until now a Pelonis Honeycomb Disc Furnace V purchased at Home Depot was my favorite heater. The Pelonis is tiny compared to the Eden Pure and uses 5 ceramic disc and a variable speed fan which goes slower and slower as you get closer to the desired temperature. The one thing I do not like about the Pelonis and all other space heaters I have tried is the air begins to dry out which for me causes some sinus issues. Yes I know I could use a humidifier but I decided to try the over priced Eden Pure fully expecting I would be boxing it up and shipping it back after giving it a try.


No heater can warm up the air without drying it out. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, so if you want to keep the same relative humidity, you will have to add water to the air somehow. If the Eden Pure has a built-in humidifier, that's fine. But if you're not adding water, raising the temperature, by whatever means, is drying out the air.

[TjW]

No heater can warm up the air without drying it out. Warm air holds more moisture than cold air, so if you want to keep the same relative humidity, you will have to add water to the air somehow. If the Eden Pure has a built-in humidifier, that's fine. But if you're not adding water, raising the temperature, by whatever means, is drying out the air.

ETA: Well, they say memory is the second thing to go. I can't remember the first.

[bruto]

Paul Harvey's endorsement was on today, again. In all honesty, I think he is like any other celeb that endorses. What does that going-on 90? year old news commentator know about the physics involved? He probably was talked into the endorsement by being told that people will get their money back if not satisfied.

That said...I really do believe it could very well be POSSIBLE to design the electric element that powers and heats, that it will transfer to the air more heat per given time, in the same way that hydronic heating gives off a given amount of heat through IT'S tubing way better when fins are attached to the copper tubing (which creates more total inches of metal for which the copper can dissipate heat to the air). You'd think that the same concept would hold true for electricy passing through an element if one can attach something to the element to transfer more heat to the air.

I'm not so sure though about that whole story about how regular heaters cook the air though. For the last few days, I was working down a cold basement. I set up my small cube heater with a box fan in front of it, to send heated air everywhere down there. In no time, it felt toasty. I then pitted that, with the memory I had last year where some woman bragged to me about one of these EdenPure like) "radiant" heaters ( I think utilizing oil-bath technology), and she said it made the entire basement ROOM...one ROOM... it was in feel real nice. But she could have been brainwashed into believing this. I had her run it while I was there and about 1/2 hour later, I could not feel that there was any more heat in the room than when it was off. Hmmm.

I would really like to hear someone explain the science behind the EdenPure, so I can determine, from laws of science, that the EdenPure indeed transfers more heat, per watt, to the air, than a conventional ribbon electric space heater with fan, or one of the ceramic ones. Also, I do not know whether I should buy into their notion ...their claim...that the heat from the EdenPure just doesn't go straight up like conventional heaters...but willl actually heat uniformly and heat the floor as well. That cube heater I had, plus fan, swirled the heated air everywhere. Without a fan at all, I'd imagine the heat would go up. But in due time, after it went up, it would also then warm the room everywhere. I can't see how the EdenPure can send out the heat without having the warm air all rise...first. They claim it "rides" the moisture in the air. But even so...that heated moisture should rise! And if it does do that...then they are lying in their ad. And if they lie about that..then what else are they lying about?

Something else bothers me about the whole money saving concept: They want you to turn down your thermostat to like 50, while you run the EdenPure in the room you are in? Hmmm. Who can live right like that? I get up and move about a lot; living room on couch...then in kitchen making meal...then on the pot, after I ate my meal :), etc. And this is when a person is single. What if you have a family? Are they supposed to be in other rooms in the house, freezing, at 50, while you have the EdenPure in front of YOU, while watching tv in some room?

Are you supposed to move this unit with you from room to room? When you go to bed, then you bring it in the bedroom with you? This whole aspect, sounds goofy.


Remember, though, that when a hydronic heater puts more heat into the room with its fins, it also dissipates that much more energy instead of sending it back to the boiler. If the fins transfer the heat, the heat is lost from the ciriculating water, and the furnace must replace it. If there are no fins, the heat returns to the furnace, which will not need to run as often, since the water in it has not cooled as much. There's no free lunch here.

[Iamme]

Remember, though, that when a hydronic heater puts more heat into the room with its fins, it also dissipates that much more energy instead of sending it back to the boiler. If the fins transfer the heat, the heat is lost from the ciriculating water, and the furnace must replace it. If there are no fins, the heat returns to the furnace, which will not need to run as often, since the water in it has not cooled as much. There's no free lunch here.

Hmmmm . You would be correct IF the electric source increases the flow of electricity when heat is being carried away on it's way to ground. If it does that...I guess I learned soemthing I never knew before. But DOES electric current flow increase by the ratio that heat is stripped out of it's wire?

[bruto]

Hmmmm . You would be correct IF the electric source increases the flow of electricity when heat is being carried away on it's way to ground. If it does that...I guess I learned soemthing I never knew before. But DOES electric current flow increase by the ratio that heat is stripped out of it's wire?

No, as far as I know, at least in a resistance heater, the resistance causes the wire to heat and the heat is emitted in a direct ratio according to ohm's law. This many feet of resistance wire at this many ohms per foot at this much voltage will give you this many watts of heat. If the resistance changes, the output changes, but the efficiency does not. If heat isn't dissipated, what will happen mostly is that the heater will get hotter. If it's really badly contained, the heater will burn out or catch fire. However, generally resistance also rises with temperature, and as resistance rises, current decreases, providing some regulation. So it's possible that a drastically poorly designed electric heater might pull less current than a well designed one when its elements increase their resistance, and you'll get less heat than you bargained for, but what is most likely is that you'll have a hot spot in a cold room, instead of a moderately warm room.

Your hot water baseboard unit, by contrast, is a heat exchanger, with liquid flowing through it which was heated elsewhere. The length of time it spends in the exchanger, as well as the design of the exchanger and the temperature differential between the water and the air around it will all determine how much heat is exchanged, and how much is retained by the water and returned to the boiler.

[Iamme]

Okay. I fully understand your explanatrion, and I think you pretty well nailed the facts. But where does that bring us? The EdenPure is supposed to be somehow better than other regular electric heaters. If what you say is true...then how is their heater better than other electric heaters? Surely it cant' be just from the fact it puts out "warm" heat rather than hot heat, because you can get space heaters that have different watt settings you can turn it to.

And I also feel that to advertise that you can turn the heat down in other areas of the house...and then simply take the heater with you to another room when you go there (I read this very thing in an ad from EdenPure, coincidently, in this Sunday's USA Weekend newspaper insert), is goofy. I can't remember how they put it exactly, but they made it out that in no time, you will have nice warm heat in THAT room. I can't see that happening. I don't want to be in my living room watching football at 75 degrees, and then decide to go in the bedroom for a while (or wherever), and it is just 50 in there, and carry the heater in there with me, and then expect this is going to warm up the room quickly. What is quickly? 15 minutes? A half-hour? Who wants to walk into any other area of the house that has been turned down to only 50? If saving money is one's objective, just turn the whole house to 50, forget ANY auxiliary heat, and go around in your snowmobile suit on and thermal socks. That would do it. :)

I just can't see how some heater that only puts out warm heat, can warm up a real large area, I guess. Remember how I said that woman had this oil-filled electric radiator that also made the same claims: even heat from just warm heat?...and how I had her run it and I could hardly tell that it was warming the room?

[bruto]

Okay. I fully understand your explanatrion, and I think you pretty well nailed the facts. But where does that bring us? The EdenPure is supposed to be somehow better than other regular electric heaters. If what you say is true...then how is their heater better than other electric heaters? Surely it cant' be just from the fact it puts out "warm" heat rather than hot heat, because you can get space heaters that have different watt settings you can turn it to.

And I also feel that to advertise that you can turn the heat down in other areas of the house...and then simply take the heater with you to another room when you go there (I read this very thing in an ad from EdenPure, coincidently, in this Sunday's USA Weekend newspaper insert), is goofy. I can't remember how they put it exactly, but they made it out that in no time, you will have nice warm heat in THAT room. I can't see that happening. I don't want to be in my living room watching football at 75 degrees, and then decide to go in the bedroom for a while (or wherever), and it is just 50 in there, and carry the heater in there with me, and then expect this is going to warm up the room quickly. What is quickly? 15 minutes? A half-hour? Who wants to walk into any other area of the house that has been turned down to only 50? If saving money is one's objective, just turn the whole house to 50, forget ANY auxiliary heat, and go around in your snowmobile suit on and thermal socks. That would do it. :)

I just can't see how some heater that only puts out warm heat, can warm up a real large area, I guess. Remember how I said that woman had this oil-filled electric radiator that also made the same claims: even heat from just warm heat?...and how I had her run it and I could hardly tell that it was warming the room?

My guess is that it isn't really any better, but if you're lucky it will turn out to be a pretty good heater at an artificially high price. It reminds me a little of the Pelonis "disc furnace" heaters that were very popular (and ridiculously expensive) 20 years or so ago. They weren't anywhere near to being worth the price, which was about 10 times that of equivalent-wattage cheap heaters, but they were nicely made, and they were good little heaters with a clever design. Wait a few years and Eden Pure heaters will probably be showing up at tag sales for 5 or 10 bucks as Pelonis furnaces and oil-filled radiators do now.

[Crazycowbob]

While it looks like the EdenPure would be a safe heater, I don't see how it could function any better (or different) than any other heater really.

Seeing as any engineer worth his degree shouldn't make a heater operating at less than 100% efficiency this day and age, the question really just comes down to quality of manufacture, and how well heat is dispersed.

A heater that runs at, say, 700 watts is going to put out 2400 Btu, no matter what kind of elements it uses (Quartz, Resistance, etc). The only loss would be to run a fan or any electronics (end even then, losses in the fan or electronics are due to resistance, and end up as more heat :) ), or heating up the heater itself instead of the air around it, which will still diffuse heat into the air, just more slowly.

Typical space heaters run at around 1500-1700 watts, giving a thermal output of around 5000 to 5800 Btu, so technically, the Edenpure should work just was well if it is really capable of outputting 5000 Btu. Looking at the design of it though, I really don't see any way it could have any more effect on humidity than any other space heater would.

I have two space heaters at my house, an oil filled one, and a convection unit (we have gas, but the house owner for some strange reason had an electric central heat system installed...:confused: ). Since getting the convection unit, I don't think I'll use anything else now. They both have a maximun rating of 1500 watts, but the convection unit seems to heat the room up faster (it doesn't actually, of course, but by circulating the air in the room it causes the whole room to heat at once, instead of having a hot area that slowly spreads as the rising heat forces the air to move).

While I'd reason that the EdenPure heater is well built and as effective as any other heater, I couldn't justify dropping $400 for it when what I bought for $30 will work just as well (minus all the spiffy features, like a remote and fake wood finish).

[cudejm]

Perhaps after the warranty runs out I will take the EdenPure apart and see how the heat exchangers are built. My guess is there are some tubes containing the lights surrounded by some metal fins with a fan blowing air through the tubes but there is no way to see inside the cabinet without removing a bunch of screws.

And some day when I am really bored I will take temps in a room at floor, mid room and ceiling then turn the heater on for an hour without using a ceiling fan and then take temps again and post the results. I can tell you it did warm up my largest room faster than what I thought it would but I was helping it out by stirring up the air with the ceiling fan on low.

As for the air not 'seeming' as dry that is just a guess on my part- I have no proof to back it up and not curious enough to purchase humidity monitoring equipment to find out how much dryer the air gets after running the heater. Perhaps I am slightly brainwashed by some of their outlandish advertising. Obviously advertising works or companies would not use it. I almost did not buy this heater because their advertising was so 'OVER THE TOP' it was making me suspicious which seems to be a common feeling based on reading many of the other users post. They need to scale it back a bit on their claims and perhaps they would pick up some new customers that are offended with some of their more dubious claims.

It IS a good but expensive heater. Even if the inside parts are as high a quality as the outside cabinet, casters, and thermostat it could probably be sold for half the price with the company still making a profit. Anytime a large bulky piece of equipment like this is advertised with free UPS shipping you know they have a healthy profit range built in.

If at the end of this winter I have different views on this heater to the point I can no longer recommend it I will post those thoughts. Currently out of the 5 electric space heaters I have used through the years the EdenPure is my favorite. If you just need to heat one large room or a couple of smaller connected rooms it can help you save some money provided you turn down the thermostat on your main heater. Naturally this is true for any space heater.

[Iamme]

Keep us updated. I like this type of stuf. It is scientific. Yet, not to the point that it can't even be grasped...like the thread I read where Scneibster sounds like he surely has to be Hawkings assistant and that he is Einsteins grandson, all in one :)

[kaygeeguard]

So here's a question from someone with a very practical need to heat a large room. I'm expecting a baby in two weeks. For various reasons, she will need to sleep in our master bedroom with us. This space is 20' x 20', with peaked ceilings that reach as high as (gulp!) 16 feet. It's an A-frame, so not a lot of insulation. It's over a garage, meaning a nice cold, dead air space below. And it has two heat registers, one all the way up at the top near the ceiling where some hot air comes out and immediately floats up, and one on the floor that never seems to push out any air at all, warm or otherwise.

Right now, this room tends to hover in the low 60s, because our fancy forced air system doesn't do anything for it, for all the reasons I described.

What is a practical, quick way to get this room staying between 68 and 70 degrees?

I'm looking at the EdenPure/Sun Twin heaters and all their various competitors, which is how I ended up here. But I really want to ensure we have something that works.

[LTC8K6]

I believe it uses regular screw in IR bulbs to heat a hunk of copper. It's pretty ridiculous, if you ask me. No better than any decent electric heater you can get for $39.95

SunTwin is the same scam.

[LTC8K6]

What is the BTU Rating for the heaters?
Heater is approximately 5000 BTUs. The BTUs are basically irrelevant as a unit of measure since the patented heating process of the EdenPURE ® INTENTIONALLY does not operate using old inefficient methods of heat combustion, which is rated by using the BTU rule. Our heating method is far superior for efficiency, safety, comfort, and is providing a natural healthy indoor environment.

Run away!

[tsg]

So here's a question from someone with a very practical need to heat a large room. I'm expecting a baby in two weeks. For various reasons, she will need to sleep in our master bedroom with us. This space is 20' x 20', with peaked ceilings that reach as high as (gulp!) 16 feet. It's an A-frame, so not a lot of insulation. It's over a garage, meaning a nice cold, dead air space below. And it has two heat registers, one all the way up at the top near the ceiling where some hot air comes out and immediately floats up, and one on the floor that never seems to push out any air at all, warm or otherwise.

The one on the floor is likely a return which brings air back to the furnace to be heated.

Right now, this room tends to hover in the low 60s, because our fancy forced air system doesn't do anything for it, for all the reasons I described.

What is a practical, quick way to get this room staying between 68 and 70 degrees?

If stratification (heat rising to the ceiling) is the problem, which it will likely be with 16' ceilings, a space heater isn't going to help that very much. A quick way to check is to take a temperature measurement at the ceiling compared to the floor. I'm willing to bet that the ceiling temp is near 80. If that is the case, you might be better off with a ceiling fan to push the hot air down and mix it with the colder air below. If you just aren't getting enough heat into this room, you might try closing the registers in other rooms, especially the one that has the thermostat in it. This will push more warn air into the bedroom and let the furnace run longer before the thermostat turns it off. Of course, if the system is too small to heat the whole house, a space heater might be the only thing you can do.

[cudejm]

If you want to heat this huge un-insulated room to be a toasty temperature you are going to have to spend money no matter what you do. I concur with the Ceiling fan mentioned above. You could attach one to a long rod so it is well below the peaked ceiling and can help circulate that warm ceiling air back down to the bottom of the room. That would probably be one of your cheaper options to try provided you could install the ceiling fan yourself and do not have to get an electrician in to run wiring.

Can the Eden Pure help – yes but in this room it may be running constantly costing you $$$. The Eden Pure is a good safe space heater but it is over priced and some of the claims they make in their advertisements are to be viewed with a skeptical eye at best. I have one and I leave it on constantly since the thermostat cycles it on and off as needed and I have no fears about leaving the house and my two kittens alone with the heater running since it truly is very safe. The Eden pure manual mentions that heating a large room quickly will work better if you ALSO utilize a ceiling fan- they do not mention this in their advertising- instead opting to use infomercial tactics to make it seem like a miracle heater that heats the entire room evenly when in fact it is just a reasonably good safe space heater and is as susceptible to the laws of physics just like any other heater. Heat rises- it does not matter what method is used to heat the air if that air is introduced at floor levels where it is cool that air is going to rise. EdenPures theory is other space heaters heat the air to the point of burning the air so that heat rises FASTER while their heat comes from light bulbs heating a copper heat sink so the air is warm but not super hot so the air does not immediately rise to the ceiling. The bedroom and attached bath I use it in does maintain a nice even air temperature but this room is not near as difficult to heat as the one you describe. On days when I am not home I keep the ELECTRICAL central heater set to 45 so it only comes on when it is very cold outside. The EdenPure keeps my bedroom and attached bath at a nice warm temperature so I save money by not using the energy hog central air system in an ALL-ELECTRIC house. While I am happy with my EdenPure I mostly made the purchasing decision based on the fact it is a SAFE space heater design where as many space heaters are a possible fire hazard and should never be left unattended or near pets or small children.

One thing you may want to consider is talking to a carpenter about what it would cost to drop in a ceiling down to a lower level. Dropping the ceiling in old houses is normal and one of the cheaper things you can do to help heat the house if the house is owned by you, but if this would mean moving the air registers to a lower level that would add to the cost. Even though the rest of the house may not have good insulation if you were able to drop the ceiling you could ensure there was insulation above your new lower ceiling.

I recall in my 20’s I rented an old ancient house which was huge and I loved it but in the winter it was brutally cold because there was NO insulation in the walls. I ended up going to Home Depot and buying clear plastic sheeting and a staple gun and I put the plastic sheeting over all the walls and windows. After I did this my space heater was able to keep the room warmer - did it look great- NO, but it was cheap and I did not own the house so that was my best option until I found another place to live after my lease was up.

One final option you may want to try is a Radiant heater. They make some models that oscillate like a table fan. Depending on where and how you mounted it the area where the baby is kept could be kept very warm. A radiant heater will eventually warm the air in the room but initially it warms objects it touches then the air gets its heat from those objects giving off their built up heat. Commercial buildings often use these in huge high ceiling rooms. They usually use the kind that mounts from the ceiling.

[luchog]

I recall in my 20’s I rented an old ancient house which was huge and I loved it but in the winter it was brutally cold because there was NO insulation in the walls. I ended up going to Home Depot and buying clear plastic sheeting and a staple gun and I put the plastic sheeting over all the walls and windows. After I did this my space heater was able to keep the room warmer - did it look great- NO, but it was cheap and I did not own the house so that was my best option until I found another place to live after my lease was up.
As kid I lived in several similarly poorly insulated houses (one was insulated with crumpled newspaper, talk about a fire hazard). In one of them, we ended up hanging blankets over the windows in winter, and installing a wood-burning stove in the fireplace to generate some inexpensive heat.

If you own the house, see about getting some additional insulation. Even in an A-frame, it can be better insulated; though that often requires some major surgery to the house. If you have problems affording it, many regions offer low-income families low-interest loans and grants specifically for the purpose of home improvements of this sort.

[justnakenny]

I live in a tiny little homestead cabin [ house ] out in the middle of nowhere and I've really had a hard time heating the cabin, for more year's than I care to admit. I've tried kerosene, woodburning, ceramic, parabolic and probably afew more, that I can't even remember.

And then

My Mother called me and told me about the EdenPure commerical and I looked them up on the internet.

Wow, what a heavy duty price for a space heater. At least 6 times more, than I'd paid for any of the other heater's that I've tried over the year's.

I'm cheap and I live on just my SS, so the prices scared me off and caused me to find anotherone, that's called [ Comfort Zone ] if I remember right. It looked my better or at least it sounded that way but then again, it was even more expensive than the EdenPure one.

Sooo

I bought the EdenPure.

And now listen.

I have NEVER BEEN HAPPIER, with any of the heater's that I've ever owned. Believe it or not.

No, I don't work for them.

As far as all of their bragging goes, here's my experience with the heater. Which by the way is NOT the 1000 or the 1500, it's the STC 750 Sun Twin.

So, see, like I said, I'm cheap because I know me well enoth to know that I wouldn't turn the 1000 or 1500 watt one's on very much, but I will and do, turn the 750 watt one on. In fact, it's sitting here in the original 20x20 cabin with me right now and it's running.

It's about 55 degree's outside right now and I'm sitting here wearing a T-shirt. That may not look like much to you but I'm the one that gets cold, if the temp falls below 70. Ha.

I'm not sitting here cold at all and that's what I'm trying to tell you, the EdenPure [ Sun Twin ] works, just like it's supposed too.

There in no or very little difference in the temp, at any place in the 20x20 cabin and it's cinder block, which makes it even that much colder.

In the day time I just heat the 20x20 part which is my kitchen, livingroom, and bathroom. But in the evening, I open up the bedroom door too and it keeps the entire 20x20 cabin and the 14x14 bedroom comfortable. No, it's not as warm in the bedroom, the heater's sitting about 33 feet away from where I'm at and I'm not cold.

I do cheat and leave one of those pigtail flourecent [ spelled wrong? ] light a 37 watt one burning in the kitchen, something I learned to do, while I was still able to work. It keeps the morning chill off of the kitchen, believe it or not. I also HATE a cold bathroom, so I have one of the same 37 watt bulbs burning inbetween the toilet and the vanity [ all the time ] plus anotherone, up in the ceiling light, during the winter. I don't have a cold bathroom.

The [ Sun Twin ] cost me $326.00 total including shipping. Yes I know that's a heck of alot of money, but believe me, I've spent more than that over the year's trying to find a heather that would keep not only me but the entire room warm and the [ Sun Twin } that's made by EdenPure, does.

I have been telling everybody about this heater and NOBODY believes me. OR they shrink away, when I tell them how much, I had to pay for it.

I would and will buy anotherone of them, in a heart beat. And that's the TRUTH.

justnakenny@peoplepc.com

[tsg]

First post to a thread that hasn't had any activity in a year.

How did you even find it if you weren't looking to advertise for EdenPure?

[Dilb]

tsg, the man is clearly too busy exploring bold new uses of paragraph formatting to be bothered with things like 'dates' and 'not obviously coming across as a shill'. Really, it's like his whole post was written to be free-verse poetry.

[tsg]

Or a really bad ad. "But don't take our word for it!!! Here's what our customers* have to say...."


*or bad actors paid to play customers, anyway

[Alkatran]

With a massive post count of "one", your anecdote is all the more credible.

[tsg]

Free hint: if you feel your account is so biased you have to include "No, I don't work for them" in it, I'm quite likely to feel the same way. And, because of that, I'm not going to take your word for it that you don't.

[Michael Redman]

And what's with the included email link?

Here's a heater that just as effective, and 1/33 the price: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16896101029

[bruto]

They guy is heating a 20 x 20 space, and partly heating an adjacent room, in an ambient temperature of 55 degrees. That's not a really big challenge, especially if his arithmetic is honest and none of his other heaters cost more than 55 bucks. It's quite possible the Eden Pure does a better job of distributing heat than some others, but that's a pretty expensive way to do it.

[Iamme]

First post to a thread that hasn't had any activity in a year.

How did you even find it if you weren't looking to advertise for EdenPure?

That don't mean anything! I am a member of a fixit forum, and over there this guy responds to this one guy how he figured out that guys problem. That guy posted 6 years earlier! What takes the cake is the new guy asked the old post guy (someone no longer even posting!) if he solved his problem yet! I remember thinking to myself..." How in the...what the heck...how in the world could....."

[Iamme]

Or a really bad ad. "But don't take our word for it!!! Here's what our customers* have to say...."


You mean as in...."don't take MY word for it....listen to what Ashley Roachclip of the Jefferson Hairpie has to say?"

[tsg]

That don't mean anything! I am a member of a fixit forum, and over there this guy responds to this one guy how he figured out that guys problem. That guy posted 6 years earlier! What takes the cake is the new guy asked the old post guy (someone no longer even posting!) if he solved his problem yet! I remember thinking to myself..." How in the...what the heck...how in the world could....."

If he's doing a search for one problem and found another thread about a similar problem that he had solved, it's one thing and, in fact, it happens to me all the time. The only way this guy finds this thread is by doing a search for "EdenPure". And he's already got one, so he's not looking for information.

[Iamme]

It's about 55 degree's outside right now and I'm sitting here wearing a T-shirt. That may not look like much to you but I'm the one that gets cold, if the temp falls below 70. Ha.

I'm not sitting here cold at all ....

Welllllll...there are Green Bay Packer fans who can be out there shirtless in 13 below zero (without goosebumps), so.........

[Iamme]

The only way this guy finds this thread is by doing a search for "EdenPure". And he's already got one, so he's not looking for information.

How can you be so sure?

If I got a book on Kevin Trudeaus "Debt Cures" (sounds excellent by the way!), I might be just inclined to believe that skeptics might have debated it here already and I would like to give my take on it.

..........

I am reconsidering though, based on the fact this guy has only made one post at JREF. THIS one.

[tsg]

How can you be so sure?

I'm not. It's just the overwhelmingly most likely possibility.

I am reconsidering though, based on the fact this guy has only made one post at JREF. THIS one.

Which was my point. What was he here looking for that he found a year old thread about a heater he supposedly loves if he wasn't searching for EdenPure?

[justnakenny]

It's called Google, that's where I found the Thread about EdenPure.

Gee whiz.

[tsg]

It's called Google, that's where I found the Thread about EdenPure.

Why were you looking for it if you had one already?

Gee whiz.

Indeed.

[bruto]

To be fair, if justnakenny did just get an Edenpure heater, and was indeed very impressed with how well it works, it's possible that he decided to search for forum threads about it so that he could tell people who are inquiring about it how much he likes it. He would not be the first enthusiast to do that kind of thing.

[tsg]

To be fair, if justnakenny did just get an Edenpure heater, and was indeed very impressed with how well it works, it's possible that he decided to search for forum threads about it so that he could tell people who are inquiring about it how much he likes it. He would not be the first enthusiast to do that kind of thing.


I don't disagree. But in the realm of what's more likely, I find it hard to put on the top of the list.

And nobody's that enthusiastic about a heater. I know. I work in HVAC. The only time people notice it is when it doesn't work.

[justnakenny]

Excuse me, I thought that the JREF forum's were here to help people.

Good Bye and God Bless

Rev. K. D. Miller

[casebro]

Excuse me, I thought that the JREF forum's were here to help people.

Good Bye and God Bless

Rev. K. D. Miller

I guess he can't stand the heat...

I don't know why people expect the net to be any different than any other discussion.

If we were all standing around the water cooler, would we behave any differently? Would any participant walk off because he didn't like our responses? Would he have to tell us that he is a Rev. as he leaves- like it makes a difference?

[bruto]

Excuse me, I thought that the JREF forum's were here to help people.

Good Bye and God Bless

Rev. K. D. Miller

They're here mostly to help people think clearly and critically. That starts with questioning assumptions.

[tsg]

Excuse me, I thought that the JREF forum's were here to help people.

Good Bye and God Bless

Rev. K. D. Miller

Just for the sake of argument, let's say you do have one of these heaters and you do really like it. So what? It's still just a single anecdote and doesn't convince me this heater is worth $330 when I can get one twice as powerful for $20.

Assuming this heater puts out as much heat as the 1500 Watt, $20 model (which I don't believe for one second), it still costs $310 more. If you run the heater for eight hours a day, every day, at $0.12/KWH (national average as of 9/2007), it will take you 14 months to recoup that investment. And you're not going to run it during the summer, so it's closer to two years. If it's only as good as a 1000 watt heater, it's 43 months. If, in fact, it's no better than a 750 Watt unit, which I have no reason to believe it is, you'll never get it back.

In short, I ain't buying it.