UK National ID scheme

[iain]

The UK Government is currently considering "entitlement cards" (i.e. ID cards) for all UK citizens, with information held on central databases.

These cards will include some sort of biometric verification (probably iris scans).

Since a national database in Denmark was mentioned in the Danish thread, I'm interested on the thoughts that Danes (and others) here have on this sort of scheme.

Arguments against the scheme can be found on the Privacy International FAQ (http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/idcard/uk/uk-idcard-faq.html)

The case for the scheme can be found in a fairly pro-card guide for kids (http://www.crights.org.uk/uwhat/translations/card01.html) which is a little more readable that the official 13MB pdf (http://www.homeoffice.gov.uk/cpd/entitlement_cards/complete_hi_r.pdf)

Main arguments against include :
1. A single card with a central database is open to abuse by Government officials and a gift to criminals.
2. The UK Government has a very poor record with large IT projects. This is unlikely to be any different so will probably cost a lot more than the projected GBP1.5 billion.
3. The card will not do nearly as much to combat fraud, crime and terrorism as the Government claims.
4. The ID card is an unwaranted Government attack on privacy, given the lack of benefits (to citizens) it offers (it does offer benefits but mainly to the Government).

The Privacy International FAQ (http://www.privacyinternational.org/issues/idcard/uk/uk-idcard-faq.html) states that
Have similar schemes been proposed or adopted in other countries?
Yes. Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand have very similar card systems. China is moving rapidly in this direction with the development of a compulsory ID database and card system. However no common law country in the world has ever accepted the idea of a peace-time ID card. The Australian and New Zealand public have rejected similar proposals outright. Canada has never agreed to such a scheme. ID card proposals have always been rejected by the United States Congress. No European country has such a comprehensive or invasive card system. so I'm interested to know how the current Danish system (and other systems) compare to what is being proposed the UK; and what the experiences of them (e.g. success in tackling fraud, cost to implement, benefits to citizens, invasions of privacy) have been.

[ZeeGerman]

Contrary to the quote you posted, Germany has an machine readable ID card for many years now (Personalausweis). Before that the Personalausweis was a small book (similar to a passport) probably since 1949 (not sure about this though). There has been some privacy related discusson, when the machine readable version was introduced, but largely it is accepted quite well (I think). However, there are no biometric informations stored on the card and an attempt to introduce biometric data would certainly start a huge discussion.

[iain]

Originally posted by ZeeGerman
Contrary to the quote you posted, Germany has an machine readable ID card for many years now (Personalausweis). Before that the Personalausweis was a small book (similar to a passport) probably since 1949 (not sure about this though). ZeeGerman,
Thanks for the information. Can I ask some questions?

What role does the ID card perform? For example, do you have to present it to get benefits, work, bank accounts etc.?

If someone steals/forges your ID card, how much of a problem does that cause you?

How much information does the Government hold on you and how widely available is that information?

Do you feel the German ID card is beneficial for citizens overall.

[BillyTK]

Another scary thing is how easy incorrect data gets into the system and how hard it is to get it out again. Anyone ever had problems with credit agencies, for instance?

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by BillyTK
Another scary thing is how easy incorrect data gets into the system and how hard it is to get it out again. Anyone ever had problems with credit agencies, for instance?

My university got my name wrong. I couldnt get them to correct it. My degree has my name spelt wrong. :rolleyes:

I actually think this would be a good idea. But Im worried about ID theft and the fact that the contract will prolly go to wichever ****** PFI company makes the largest contribution to Labour party coffers.

[BillyTK]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


My university got my name wrong. I couldnt get them to correct it. My degree has my name spelt wrong. :rolleyes:
Ferzackley

I actually think this would be a good idea. But Im worried about ID theft and the fact that the contract will prolly go to wichever ****** PFI company makes the largest contribution to Labour party coffers.
But think about it--we've got passports; we've got photo driving licences; there's tons of info held about us on the NHS database (and what a disaster that's turning out to be), Social Security, Inland Revenue, heck even Sainsburys and Tescos have detailed records of your shopping habits if you use their reward card system.

False passports and photocards are easy enough to obtain legally before you get into counterfeiting and the like; there's no reason to believe a national ID card system would be anymore secure. Though it behoves a dodgy old socialist like me to say it, it's just authoritarianism gone mad!!!

[Ove]

The problem is NOT the card itself but which databases it is connected to. We have today a system with a CPR number and a "social security card". Basically it contains just my cpr number. It is used f.inst when i go se my doctor, get social services etc. I've got no problems with that because my doctor has his own database which is not connected to any public server and there are "firewalls" between the public services.

I know no system is secure but there has been very few cases with data being misused. Most security cases i can remember reading about has been of the type where employee's have done something stupid, like throwing files out in stead of maculating the stuff.

It will allways be a gain vs. risk judgement which data you would connect to such a card. Obviously many people would like a lot of data so that they wouldn't have to carry countless cards, licenses etc. but the more data you gain access to the greater the risk for abuse.

Personally i would like to have ONE card doubling as Passport-Drivers license and social security card.