I am sick of SARS

[Ceinwyn]

Every night on the news, it's SARS. Every newsbreak, it's something to do with SARS.

I don't have it, and neither does anyone I know. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing about this latest plague that kills, oh, nobody.

Unless anyone here knows someone who died from SARS? Please speak up, if you do.

[a_unique_person]

Originally posted by buki
Every night on the news, it's SARS. Every newsbreak, it's something to do with SARS.

I don't have it, and neither does anyone I know. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing about this latest plague that kills, oh, nobody.

Unless anyone here knows someone who died from SARS? Please speak up, if you do.

Nothing like a health scare to make a good story. That or a celebrity scandal.

It makes sense to deal with it. Until we understand it better, who knows what the long term result will be. But as they say, the flu will still be killing more people this year.

[ImpyTimpy]

Actually the death toll from SARS is rising as infected cases pile up so saying it has never killed anyone is factually incorrect. Also I remember a report saying SARS is mutating to become more and more lethal (killing younger and healthier people). Haven't seen any confirming material for it though so if anyone has more info it'd be cool.

Originally posted by buki
Every night on the news, it's SARS. Every newsbreak, it's something to do with SARS.

I don't have it, and neither does anyone I know. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing about this latest plague that kills, oh, nobody.

Unless anyone here knows someone who died from SARS? Please speak up, if you do.

[Ceinwyn]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Also I remember a report saying SARS is mutating to become more and more lethal (killing younger and healthier people). Haven't seen any confirming material for it though so if anyone has more info it'd be cool. This is my point exactly.

Nobody knows anything about it, nobody has friends or relatives or even acquaintances who have been killed by it or even have it, all we know is what the f*cking news tells us.

I'm going to just stop watching Canadian news, because as far as I can tell, this is alarmist bullsh*t.

edit to add: here's what I've heard about SARS:

- only old and sick people get it
- only asians get it
- once the weather warms up, it will die
- it will kill us all
- it's nothing to worry about

[PogoPedant]

- only old and sick people get it
- only asians get it
- once the weather warms up, it will die
- it will kill us all
- it's nothing to worry about
To add a few tidbits to your amazing database of facts:
- A handful of top chinese government officials have been sacked for covering up SARS. (Deaths in Beijing are roughly ten times as many as originally thought)
- Hong Kong Airport is virtually closed due to SARS-fright.
- It has a lethality rate of a grand whopping 4%.

Personally, I think this is the doomsdaybug. It must: It has humour, it killed the guy who was responsible for warning the world about it. The name isn't exactly doomsday-material though...

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Also I remember a report saying SARS is mutating to become more and more lethal (killing younger and healthier people). Haven't seen any confirming material for it though so if anyone has more info it'd be cool.


Bollocks, in order for this to be true, you would have to have carried out a complete phylogenetic study of a wide variety of SARS cases as the epidemic progresses.

This would include isolating the virus from each victim and then sequencing the virus and comparing the sequences- the results would then have to be peer-reviewed and refereed by a jounal before being published. Otherwise its nothing but a rumour.

Science works a lot more slowly than in the movies.

[richardm]

Originally posted by Jon_in_london


Bollocks, in order for this to be true, you would have to have carried out a complete phylogenetic study of a wide variety of SARS cases as the epidemic progresses.

Hmm, well, it's believed to be a coronavirus, which typically mutate quite rapidly. Natural selection means that some strains will be able to spread faster than others - i.e. they're more virulent. The fact that a small number of young, fit people in China have unexpectedly died from the virus recently suggests that this might be happening.

[HarryKeogh]

http://www.theonion.com/onion3914/wdyt_3914.html

funny because it's true.

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by buki
Every night on the news, it's SARS. Every newsbreak, it's something to do with SARS.

I don't have it, and neither does anyone I know. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing about this latest plague that kills, oh, nobody.

Unless anyone here knows someone who died from SARS? Please speak up, if you do.

SARS is a biological weapon and an attack on the United States and global capitalism by Asian forces.

JK

[richardm]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


SARS is a biological weapon and an attack on the United States and global capitalism by Asian forces.

JK


Then how come most of the victims have been in China and Hong Kong? Did somebody drop the flask on the way to the airport?

:D

[arcticpenguin]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

SARS is a biological weapon and an attack on the United States and global capitalism by Asian forces.
JK
Not at all likely. You would expect a biological weapon to look like a well-known virus or bacteria, possibly modified to a) increase potency or b) evade immunological resistance.

SARS doesn't look like very much like any known human pathogen. This gives the impression that it simply crossed the species barrier into humans very recently.

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


SARS is a biological weapon and an attack on the United States and global capitalism by Asian forces.

JK You're getting older and slower - I've been checking in every morning for three weeks now, anticipating this comment from you!

By the way, you forgot a leftist biological weapon. Not quite up to it these days, are we? :p

Now, which Asian force can I imagine would kill Chinese and Canadians to attack the United States ....

[kourama]

The first two deaths in Toronto from SARS occurred just up the street from my mum's house.

My Dad's GF returned from mainland China a couple of weeks ago.

We're all OK. :)

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by richardm



Then how come most of the victims have been in China and Hong Kong? Did somebody drop the flask on the way to the airport?

:D

It is just communists sacrificing some of their own to attack global capitalism and send a message that worse is to follow. SARS is a recombitrant harrassment virus, one that can attack the US airline industry and put it out of business, finishing the job Al Qaida tried to do during 9/11. Commies don't do anything without a plan, and China has worked with Al Qaida in developing strategies to attack the United States.

China wants to remain the hegemon in Asia. For the United States to openly debate the disposition of North Korea without China is an insult to them, and Japan's recent rhetoric about militarism again has China pretty pissed off.

SARS is a pretty effective tool to send the west a direct message and it is only going to get much worse as the virus attacks virgin populations in the United States and Europe.

Chinese military planners know America's weaknesses. They know that America can be destroyed using political correctness without even firing a shot. It is the responsibility of government to protect the citizen from plagues and other diseases that can decimate populations in a target nation. China knows that rampant commie leftism where "everyone" can just waltz into America and anyone who objects is "racist" and a "xenophobe" only makes bugs like SARS easier to send against their enemies.

The US spent decades and hundreds of $billions eradicating diseases from the mainland and now with political correctness, US populations are being terrorized with unrestricted access to killer viruses they have no immunity against because it is politically incorrect to make sick people get better before they come into our country now. If we were to hold sick people, it would go against "multiculturalism" and "diversity" and whoever dared to make it happen would be a "racist".

Yellow fever, the West Nile Virus, etc etc etc--all those diseases are caused by sick people coming into the United States and spreading the virus. It was sick people that mosquitos bit and now the entire US mosquito population has the virus to spread to all Americans. Gosh, that is just dandy, isn't it?

If we can't allow dentists to wear gloves when filling teeth with people that have AIDS because it hurts the AIDS' patient's "feelings", how on Earth are we going to stop the infiltration of a recombitrant virus? When people can just cross into the United States everyday by the tens of thousands across our borders unrestricted, the US will never be safe from attack and the "virus" will be the weapon of choice to use against America.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by arcticpenguin

Not at all likely. You would expect a biological weapon to look like a well-known virus or bacteria, possibly modified to a) increase potency or b) evade immunological resistance.

SARS doesn't look like very much like any known human pathogen. This gives the impression that it simply crossed the species barrier into humans very recently.

Not true.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Bjorn
You're getting older and slower - I've been checking in every morning for three weeks now, anticipating this comment from you!

By the way, you forgot a leftist biological weapon. Not quite up to it these days, are we? :p

Now, which Asian force can I imagine would kill Chinese and Canadians to attack the United States ....

You are wrong. I provide very good information about a variety of topics on this forum. I have been busy doing other things lately and haven't had the chance to chat about SARS.

JK

[Mel]

Hasn't the health profession been forecasting for YEARS (if not decades) that the overuse and misuse of antibiotics was going to have a disasterous effect on the population?

Is this what we are seeing now?

[LuxFerum]

Jedi Knight is like the bad twin brother of Fox Moulder.:D

[richardm]

Originally posted by Mel
Hasn't the health profession been forecasting for YEARS (if not decades) that the overuse and misuse of antibiotics was going to have a disasterous effect on the population?

Is this what we are seeing now?

Don't think so, Mel. This is a virus, and they're not affected by antibiotics one way or another.

[Megalodon]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight

...it is only going to get much worse as the virus attacks virgin populations in the United States and Europe.

Well in that case you should run for the hills.

yada yada...Yellow fever, the West Nile Virus, etc etc etc--all those diseases are caused by sick people coming into the United States and spreading the virus. It was sick people that mosquitos bit and now the entire US mosquito population has the virus to spread to all Americans. Gosh, that is just dandy, isn't it?

Don't you get tired of saying this nonsenses?

If we can't allow dentists to wear gloves when filling teeth

You can't allow? I always demand that a dentist wears gloves while working on my teeth. It's a question of hygiene...

recombitrant virus

I have to agree with you. A recombitrant virus has to be a WMD unleashed by evil commies

When people can just cross into the United States everyday by the tens of thousands across our borders unrestricted, the US will never be safe from attack and the "virus" will be the weapon of choice to use against America.

Specially those evil recombitrant, virgin-killing ones

[Thanz]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


If we can't allow dentists to wear gloves when filling teeth with people that have AIDS because it hurts the AIDS' patient's "feelings", how on Earth are we going to stop the infiltration of a recombitrant virus?

JK

Usually I just let these things go, but this statement was really rich. Do you have any back up for this? I would be shocked to learn that there were any dentists that did not use gloves for all patients.

[Jon_in_london]

Originally posted by Mel
Hasn't the health profession been forecasting for YEARS (if not decades) that the overuse and misuse of antibiotics was going to have a disasterous effect on the population?

Is this what we are seeing now?

No.
Not so far as SARS is concerned at least. MRSA another matter.

[Segnosaur]

Up in Canada, we're getting bombarded with SARS information. Lately, the World Health Organization has labeled Toronto as a 'no go' zone. (Of course, some of us would argue that Toronto isn't really part of Canada anyways :p )

There are 2 things about SARS that seem to stick out in my mind:

- Nobody is sure how exactly its transmitted. There have been cases where people have taken very strong percautions in hospitals, but have still come down with the disease. (Could be due to a 'mistake' in the percautions; still, if its that easy to contract, even a low death rate could cause problems.)

- The 'risk' has caused a lot of 'collateral damage', as hospitals delay surgery, limit visits, etc.

[Jon_in_london]

If we can't allow dentists to wear gloves when filling teeth with people that have AIDS because it hurts the AIDS' patient's "feelings", how on Earth are we going to stop the infiltration of a recombitrant virus?

I agree, I always feel so bad on behalf of the AIDS peoples that I dont think dentists should even wash their hands after wiping their arses!

[Jon_in_london]

If we can't allow dentists to wear gloves when filling teeth with people that have AIDS because it hurts the AIDS' patient's "feelings", how on Earth are we going to stop the infiltration of a recombitrant virus?

In fact when the glorious revolution comes around, all those glove-wearing dentists are going to be the first against the wall!

[Mel]

Originally posted by richardm


Don't think so, Mel. This is a virus, and they're not affected by antibiotics one way or another.

Thanks Richard, I stand corrected. (Another theory all shot to hell. lol)

Thanks Jon. I have to admit I had no idea what MRSA is & so I did a quick search....

In case anyone else is in the dark : MRSA - Fact Sheet (http://www.cdc.gov/ncidod/hip/Aresist/mrsafaq.htm)

[toddjh]

Originally posted by buki
Every night on the news, it's SARS. Every newsbreak, it's something to do with SARS.

It's rapidly becoming a pet peeve of mine, too. The whole scare started when they thought it might be caused by a resistant bacterium. Now that we know it's a virus, it's just a common cold that's slightly more lethal than the flu in specific demographics.

Jeremy

[GrapeJ713]

Originally posted by Mel
Hasn't the health profession been forecasting for YEARS (if not decades) that the overuse and misuse of antibiotics was going to have a disasterous effect on the population?

Is this what we are seeing now?

Antibiotics don't, CAN'T do anything to a virus. This is relatively minor, the flu killed about 4 million people in 1918. It is something to be cautious about, but not chicken little alarmed. It has been happening for centuries since animals first started to be domesticated. A good historical perspective can be found in the book "Guns, Germs and Steel" by Jared Diamond
amazon link (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0393317552/qid=1051116580/sr=1-1/ref=sr_1_1/103-9635473-9592625?v=glance&s=books)

[Linda]

Originally posted by buki

- only old and sick people get it
- only asians get it
- once the weather warms up, it will die
- it will kill us all
- it's nothing to worry about


All of the above are false. I first read of this virus in early March or maybe even in February before it had acquired a name, buried in a 2 paragraph story on page 23A under our local paper's "World Reports" column, where it was reported a mysterious illness similar to pneumonia had infected several dozen people in China and killed 2. I remember remarking to my husband that this tiny story could become the next major issue and our paper has it buried on page 23. Within a week it was on the front pages.....much sooner than I had anticipated.
From what I understand, this disease is so dangerous because it is airborne, and not spread through close contact like Ebola or AIDS or hepatitis. Its fatality rate, at 4%, is higher than that of the great influenza pandemic of 1918, which was 2.5%. For more info on the influenza pandemic see www.stanford.edu/group/virus/uda/
That disease raced around the globe in less than a year and killed between 20-40 million people........before commercial plane travel. 28% of the US population was infected. The disease killed more WWI soldiers than the fighting did.
What is amazing about SARS is the fact science has already identified the virus responsible and decoded its genome. That gives hope to the fact that a vaccine and/or treatment could be developed before SARS gets a real stranglehold on the rest of the world. Am I panicked? No. Would I travel to Hong Kong right now? NO WAY! I know that the book "The Coming Plague" has been debunked as alarmist, but there's a part of me that thinks: what if it's true? This could be the one.

[richardm]

Originally posted by GrapeJ713

This is relatively minor, the flu killed about 4 million people in 1918.

Yeah, but hang on - the Spanish 'Flu epidemic of 1918-1919 is generally reckoned to be the worst infectious disease in history, killing anywhere up to 40 million people by some estimates. So comparing anything else to that is a bit unfair!

[richardm]

Originally posted by Linda

What is amazing about SARS is the fact science has already identified the virus responsible and decoded its genome. That gives hope to the fact that a vaccine and/or treatment could be developed before SARS gets a real stranglehold on the rest of the world.


One problem may be that the virus appears (despite jon_in_london's opinion) to be mutating quite rapidly. This means that strains in Hong Kong already appear to be different to those in Canada, and so different vaccines may have to be developed for each country - and may not remain effective for very long. I agree that this could yet be a big problem for all of us.

[Linda]

Originally posted by buki

Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing about this latest plague that kills, oh, nobody.



By the way, I'm assuming you mean "nobody important". I'm sure the families of the many people that have died so far didn't consider them to be "nobody".

[Ceinwyn]

Originally posted by Linda


By the way, I'm assuming you mean "nobody important". I'm sure the families of the many people that have died so far didn't consider them to be "nobody".

Originally posted by buki

- only old and sick people get it
- only asians get it
- once the weather warms up, it will die
- it will kill us all
- it's nothing to worry about

All of the above are false.Yes, I'm well aware of that. I'm also aware that actual real people have died. I was simply being facetious and trying to put a bit of a humourous spin on what seems to me to be a not particularly dire situation.

[renata]

Originally posted by richardm



One problem may be that the virus appears (despite jon_in_london's opinion) to be mutating quite rapidly. This means that strains in Hong Kong already appear to be different to those in Canada, and so different vaccines may have to be developed for each country - and may not remain effective for very long. I agree that this could yet be a big problem for all of us.

Here is a link http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A17363-2003Apr22.html

Chinese scientists have deciphered the genetic code of a number of samples of the SARS virus and say their research could provide important clues as to whether the microbe will weaken or increase in severity over time.

Yang Huanming, one of China's best-known geneticists, said the work has shown significant differences between virus samples from patients in Guangzhou and in Beijing, indicating that the virus is mutating rapidly.
...

He said samples already sequenced in the United States and Canada were similar to the Guangzhou samples because the American and Canadian samples came from people who caught the disease in southern China. But when researchers did sequencing of samples collected in Beijing, about 1,200 miles to the north, they detected significant differences from the southern strain.


The SARS virus belongs to a family of viruses known as coronaviruses, which are prone to mutations. So it is not surprising that the virus has developed changes in its genetic makeup, according to other scientists. The key question is whether the changes affect the virus in any meaningful way, such as making it more or less likely to spread or more or less likely to cause severe disease. Most mutations in viruses have little effect on how the disease manifests in humans.

"These mutations may cause the virus to become more virulent, or alternatively the mutations may cause the virus to become less virulent," said Michael Lai, a coronavirus expert at the University of Southern California. "It will take more analysis to know."

The mutations were seen in all five of the viruses' known functional genes, with most of them occurring in the gene that carries the instructions for the distinctive spikes that jut from the outside of the virus, according to Siqi Liu, associate director at the Beijing Genomics Institute, part of the Chinese Academy of Sciences.

The only way to determine whether the mutations are changing how the virus behaves is by seeing whether patients or animals infected with the virus with the mutations are getting sicker or are more infectious, Lai said.

"If you see all the patients have more severe disease, then this would suggest this mutation has some effect," Lai said.

[JeffR]

Originally posted by Linda

... Its fatality rate, at 4%, is higher than that of the great influenza pandemic of 1918, which was 2.5%. ...
I think that at this point we have no idea what the fatality rate is for SARS except that 4% has to be way too high. The only people diagnosed are those who die or are sick enough to seek treatment. There must be large numbers of people who contract SARS and recover without having been diagnosed, and therefore aren't included in the statistics.

edited by Linda to fix the typo in my quote.

[PogoPedant]

Originally posted by JeffR

I think that at this point we have no idea what the fatality rate is for SARS except that 4% has to be way too high. The only people diagnosed are those who die or are sick enough to seek treatment. There must be large numbers of people who contract SARS and recover without having been diagnosed, and therefore aren't included in the statistics.

edited by Linda to fix the typo in my quote.
WHO now has fatality at 5.9% according to aftenposten.no, or about 5% according to who.int.. (Who do you trust?).

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by Thanz


Usually I just let these things go, but this statement was really rich. Do you have any back up for this? I would be shocked to learn that there were any dentists that did not use gloves for all patients.

Dentists get sued because they wear gloves and it "offends" the HIV patients.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by LuxFerum
Jedi Knight is like the bad twin brother of Fox Moulder.:D

Fox is a newby compared to my knowledge. :D

JK

[ImpyTimpy]

Are you EVER going to provide a source for your claims? Perhaps even the tiniest drop of evidence to support your position?

You're good for a laugh but come on... It'd be nice to see you actually back something up that you wrote.

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Dentists get sued because they wear gloves and it "offends" the HIV patients.

JK

[Jedi Knight]

Originally posted by ImpyTimpy
Are you EVER going to provide a source for your claims? Perhaps even the tiniest drop of evidence to support your position?

You're good for a laugh but come on... It'd be nice to see you actually back something up that you wrote.



Yeah they do. The Toronto Sun published the story about it in their August 5th, 1995 edition. An HIV-positive lady sued her dentist because he wore gloves since she was HIV positive and I guess it offended her. Contact the Toronto Sun's archive department if you don't believe me and be enlightened.

Then come back and bow before me and say: "Mr. Knight, once again, you were right." lol

JK

[Bjorn]

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Yeah they do. The Toronto Sun published the story about it in their August 5th, 1995 edition. An HIV-positive lady sued her dentist because he wore gloves since she was HIV positive and I guess it offended her. Contact the Toronto Sun's archive department if you don't believe me and be enlightened.

Then come back and bow before me and say: "Mr. Knight, once again, you were right." lol

JK You stated:

... if we can't allow dentists to wear gloves when filling teeth with people that have AIDS because it hurts the AIDS' patient's "feelings" Now, show where it says we cant allow them to wear those gloves.

Or shut up.

Whatever quote you might have from someone suing someone about it does not prove your point. :p

"Mr. Knight, once again, you were right." Even a watch that is not moving is right twice a day. :rolleyes:

[Tesserat]

originally posted by buki

Every night on the news, it's SARS. Every newsbreak, it's something to do with SARS.

I don't have it, and neither does anyone I know. Maybe it's just me, but I'm tired of hearing about this latest plague that kills, oh, nobody.

Unless anyone here knows someone who died from SARS? Please speak up, if you do.



I have a friend who is in critical condition with SARS. Is that good enough for you? I live in New Westminster, near Vancouver. As it seems that it's more infectious than previously thought, it's on people's minds here. But you can safely forget about it until (unless) it reaches your neighbourhood.

Thanks for your compassion.

[ImpyTimpy]

They have??? Where??

Originally posted by Jedi Knight


Yeah they do. The Toronto Sun published the story about it in their August 5th, 1995 edition. An HIV-positive lady sued her dentist because he wore gloves since she was HIV positive and I guess it offended her. Contact the Toronto Sun's archive department if you don't believe me and be enlightened.

Then come back and bow before me and say: "Mr. Knight, once again, you were right." lol

JK