What is too blame for crime rates?

[merphie]

According to this

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

The more religion you bring into the culture the more violence. So how can anyone claim that religion = morales when this research paper doesn't show such a correlation?

[BobK]

I don't want to get into religion and morality, so I'll just reply about the thread title question.

Compilation of statistics.

No statistics, no crime rate.

[Manny]

What is too blame for crime rates?Poor written language skills?

[Just thinking]

Besides, there are so many other variables that enter into the equation. I would think it rather difficult to somehow isolate everything else and just turn religious influence on and off.

[Nick Bogaerts]

The more religion you bring into the culture the more violence.

No, that is not what the paper says. Paul found no correlation between national levels of religiosity and national homicide rates in a small sample of developed nations.


{edited for spelling}

[GodMark2]

According to this

The more religion you bring into the culture the more violence. So how can anyone claim that religion = morales when this research paper doesn't show such a correlation?

Actually,

chronicle.uchicago.edu/990812/abortion.shtml

...claims abortion, or rather, lack of abortion leading to unwanted children, is mostly responsible for increased crime. It's a statistical analysis of the falling crime rates in the 1990's, showing that states that legalized abortion before Roe V Wade forced them to, also had their crime rates drop before the states that waited, and that that correlation was stronger than any other the authors had reviewed (including economic status, racial mix, and 'tough on crime' laws (like the infamous 3-strikes laws))

(I'd post links, but I'm apparently too new *sigh*)

[Bob Klase]

What is too blame for crime rates?

Criminals?

[Freakshow]

Very interesting topic.

There are many things that contribute to changes in the crime rate. Too many to list, actually. Some have more influence on the crime rate than others.

But something that is interesting to note is that there has never been a society in existence (that we know of) that has had absolutely no crime. No one has ever found any system of civilization (that we know of) that has had no crime whatsoever.

There are always going to be some people who seek to break the rules. Now, sometimes this is done for very good reasons. The Underground Railroad in the pre-Civil War US, for example. Sometimes, this is done for very bad reasons. Murder, for example. (I didn't say "Killing in self defense" or "The police shooting and killing an armed person who is running down the street firing into crowds", I said "murder".)

But crime is something that is an inescapable part of human existence. This fundamental part of human nature is not something that can be discounted when planning on how to deal with crime in a society. We must be prepared to accept that we will always have at least some amount of crime to deal with.

[merphie]

No, that is not what the paper says. Paul found no correlation between national levels of religiosity and national homicide rates in a small sample of developed nations.


{edited for spelling}

Yes, you are correct. The point was no correlation could be found either way. Meaning that more religion doesn't mean higher morales.

I gave up on spelling a long time ago. Now I use IESpell!

[merphie]

Very interesting topic.

There are many things that contribute to changes in the crime rate. Too many to list, actually. Some have more influence on the crime rate than others.

But something that is interesting to note is that there has never been a society in existence (that we know of) that has had absolutely no crime. No one has ever found any system of civilization (that we know of) that has had no crime whatsoever.

There are always going to be some people who seek to break the rules. Now, sometimes this is done for very good reasons. The Underground Railroad in the pre-Civil War US, for example. Sometimes, this is done for very bad reasons. Murder, for example. (I didn't say "Killing in self defense" or "The police shooting and killing an armed person who is running down the street firing into crowds", I said "murder".)

But crime is something that is an inescapable part of human existence. This fundamental part of human nature is not something that can be discounted when planning on how to deal with crime in a society. We must be prepared to accept that we will always have at least some amount of crime to deal with.

OK, I would point out that religion seems to give a person easy justification for their crimes.

Example: There has been a rash of mothers killing their kids because god told them too or the child(ren) were possessed. Perhaps if the mother wasn't predisposed to believing in the supernatural they would have realized that the voices were in their own head? I know it's mere speculation.

I've just seem my cousin (who is very religious) justify every bad thing she has done through her religion and she calls me the heathen for being an atheist.

in discussions with someone trying to save my soul she told me that Jesus dying on the cross erased all sins which magically cures all the inconsistencies in the bible.

[luchog]

Example: There has been a rash of mothers killing their kids because god told them too or the child(ren) were possessed. Perhaps if the mother wasn't predisposed to believing in the supernatural they would have realized that the voices were in their own head? I know it's mere speculation.
And not supported by medical literature. If they don't claim god tells them, then they say it's demons, aliens, the child itself, or just "the voices". Predisposition to believe in the supernatural has nothing whatsoever to do with the effects of mental illness; either as a cause or a justification. It's just a convenient lable used by those who are incapable of anything resembling rational thought; and is not at all related to their actual though processes.

[luchog]

Actually,

chronicle.uchicago.edu/990812/abortion.shtml

...claims abortion, or rather, lack of abortion leading to unwanted children, is mostly responsible for increased crime. It's a statistical analysis of the falling crime rates in the 1990's, showing that states that legalized abortion before Roe V Wade forced them to, also had their crime rates drop before the states that waited, and that that correlation was stronger than any other the authors had reviewed (including economic status, racial mix, and 'tough on crime' laws (like the infamous 3-strikes laws))
According to... I can't recall if it was Kleck or Lott, as I don't have my notes handy, but according to one of the two studies, the most direct correlation to the crime rate is the percentage of young adult males, 16-24, in the population. That is the demographic that has the highest crime rate.

[merphie]

And not supported by medical literature. If they don't claim god tells them, then they say it's demons, aliens, the child itself, or just "the voices". Predisposition to believe in the supernatural has nothing whatsoever to do with the effects of mental illness; either as a cause or a justification. It's just a convenient lable used by those who are incapable of anything resembling rational thought; and is not at all related to their actual though processes.

I could go along with that. I don't know much about mental illness. I was just associating because of the horrors I have seen committed in the name of religion by people who appear to have a rational thought process.

The 9/11 hijackers seem to fit that.

[AmateurScientist]

Lawmakers. Anarchy has no crime.

AS

[GodMark2]

According to... I can't recall if it was Kleck or Lott, as I don't have my notes handy, but according to one of the two studies, the most direct correlation to the crime rate is the percentage of young adult males, 16-24, in the population. That is the demographic that has the highest crime rate.

I'm familiar with that study. If you look more closely at the study I mentioned, however, you'll see that it isn't trying to create a correlation between demographics and crimerate, but between changes in demographics and changes in crimerate. By doing this, they eliminate (or at least minimize) the bias of the 16-24 age group's predilection for crime.

[Beerina]

One might also argue that redistribution of wealth buys off the "lower classes", and thus reduces crime. Thus by institutionalizing theft, of course you reduce unofficial crime rates. :jaw-dropp

We now return you to your regularly scheduled chimera of unrestrained democracy and vox populi, vox dei.

[Kerberos]

One might also argue that redistribution of wealth buys off the "lower classes", and thus reduces crime. Thus by institutionalizing theft, of course you reduce unofficial crime rates. :jaw-dropp

We now return you to your regularly scheduled chimera of unrestrained democracy and vox populi, vox dei.
Yeah, only morons believe that, everybody knows it's vox mercatum, vox dei.

[Luke T.]

Poverty, for the most part.

[Manny]

Yeah, only morons believe that, everybody knows it's vox mercatum, vox dei.I've had disappointingly little success thus far of convincing people of it, but the truth is that it's vox manny, vox dei.

[Kerberos]

I've had disappointingly little success thus far of convincing people of it, but the truth is that it's vox manny, vox dei.
Does that mean Ed is your sock puppet or that you're his?

[Manny]

Nah, different dei. When you're an atheist you can disbelieve in as many gods as you want. :D

[geni]

According to this

http://moses.creighton.edu/JRS/2005/2005-11.html

The more religion you bring into the culture the more violence.


Did you read the title? Stop extrapolating without provideing very good justificantion.
So how can anyone claim that religion = morales when this research paper doesn't show such a correlation?

It is always posible for studies to be flawed.

[merphie]

Did you read the title? Stop extrapolating without provideing very good justificantion.


It is always posible for studies to be flawed.

Yeah, keep up in to conversation.

[American]

So how can anyone claim that religion = morales when this research paper doesn't show such a correlation?

Perhaps the greatest modern lie is that of the peer-reviewed scientific study. It is everything it claims not to be, and few of the things that it professes.

Any epidemiologist will tell you this.

[geni]

Yeah, keep up in to conversation.

You were missrepresenting the study. It doesn't claim "The more religion you bring into the culture the more violence."

[merphie]

You were missrepresenting the study. It doesn't claim "The more religion you bring into the culture the more violence."

I've already explained this when someone else called attention to it.

[merphie]

Perhaps the greatest modern lie is that of the peer-reviewed scientific study. It is everything it claims not to be, and few of the things that it professes.

Any epidemiologist will tell you this.

What are you suggesting? We should abandon the peer-reviewed process? Should we simply guess or claim god did it?