Born Gay on Primetime TV

[corplinx]

I saw a little bit of Hannity and Colmes tonight. Some democrat congressman from NY said that the reason that overturning the Texas sodomy law won't open the door for other state regulation of things like incest is because peope don't have a choice about being gay.

Now, I don't want another thread about this case. I do however have problems with the congressman's assertion about homosexuality's roots. There is simply no evidence to support it.

Is this two party country going to be divided into woo woos who think homosexuality is evil and wishful thinkers who believe its genetic?

Note: im not saying it cant be genetic, im just saying that there is not proof as of yet.

[Nasarius]

Originally posted by corplinx
[B]I saw a little bit of Hannity and Colmes tonight. Some democrat congressman from NY said that the reason that overturning the Texas sodomy law won't open the door for other state regulation of things like incest is because peope don't have a choice about being gay.

How exactly do you make the jump from "no choice" to "born gay"? Certainly, it seems obvious that anyone who is gay has no choice in being attracted to the same sex. I would also venture a guess that very few people actually choose to be gay. Whether homosexuality is genetic or environmental is irrelevant.

[a_unique_person]

I don't recall choosing to be heterosexual.

[corplinx]

Originally posted by Nasarius


How exactly do you make the jump from "no choice" to "born gay"?

I didnt quote him exactly. I cant remember his exact words in fact but the impression I got was he was sugarcoating "born gay". Is there evidence that homosexuality is involuntary?

[Baggle]

So people have a choice about being pedophiles? I seriously doubt they decide to like little kiddies one day. Not that it isn't reprehensible and of course they need to be locked up where they can't get to children, but honestly, you think they chose to be that way? I am thinking that Uncle Ernie chose for them to be that way when he molested the now pedophile at the age of 6 or 7. And somebody, in turn, did it to ol' Unkie Ern.

-Baggle

[iain]

Originally posted by Baggle
So people have a choice about being pedophiles? I seriously doubt they decide to like little kiddies one day. Not that it isn't reprehensible and of course they need to be locked up where they can't get to children, but honestly, you think they chose to be that way? I am thinking that Uncle Ernie chose for them to be that way when he molested the now pedophile at the age of 6 or 7. And somebody, in turn, did it to ol' Unkie Ern.

-Baggle I think people have a choice about acting on their desires. I doubt there is anyone who hasn't entertained illegal fantasies of a violent or sexual nature but you don't have to act on them.

(unless its with a fully consenting adult partner of course ;) )

[DrBenway]

Homosexuality is found throughout the animal kingdom.

[Mel]

Originally posted by corplinx
I saw a little bit of Hannity and Colmes tonight. Some democrat congressman from NY said that the reason that overturning the Texas sodomy law won't open the door for other state regulation of things like incest is because peope don't have a choice about being gay.

Now, I don't want another thread about this case. I do however have problems with the congressman's assertion about homosexuality's roots. There is simply no evidence to support it.

Is this two party country going to be divided into woo woos who think homosexuality is evil and wishful thinkers who believe its genetic?

Note: im not saying it cant be genetic, im just saying that there is not proof as of yet.

Human sexuality is too complicated to put into neat little boxes. We can make generalizations and come close, but there will always be exceptions to the 'rules.' Some people just cannot or will not accept a world where everything & everyone does not conform to THEIR concept of 'normal.'

IMO, there is something wrong with any state knocking on an adult's door and arresting them for having consensual sex.

Straight or gay, I think incest is an issue that neither 'side' should try to excuse or think of as acceptable behavior.

[Victor Danilchenko]

There is evidence that homosexuality has both genetic and environmental components. the evidence that it's at least partly genetic is overwhelmingly strong; the weight of the genetic components tends to get placed at least somewhere around 50%-70%.

The tricky thing that that it's unclear whether the remaining 30%-50% are genetic or not. Genetic components of homosexuality can have non-100% penetrance, which would mean that homosexuality can be fully genetic, but randomly actualized -- just as identical twins may both have genetic code for certain disorder, but not both get it, because the gene in question has partial penetrance.

Various studies on twins and relatives have pretty much proven that homosexuality is at least partly genetic. Those would be various studies on identical twins, fraternal twins, and non-twin siblings; as well as studies of homosexuality in entire family trees.

[iain]

Now someone just needs to figure out why evolution hasn't eliminated genetically determined homosexuality.

[CWL]

Originally posted by a_unique_person
I don't recall choosing to be heterosexual.

Ha! Good point. Nor do I. Nor have I ever felt the urge to chose anything else. Why would the opposite apply for someone who is homosexual?

Originally posted by iain
Now someone just needs to figure out why evolution hasn't eliminated genetically determined homosexuality.

Maybe bisexuality is part of the explanation? Maybe the social pressure to create a family? Moreover, why shouldn't homosexuals have the same urge to procreate as heterosexuals?

[DrBenway]

Originally posted by iain
Now someone just needs to figure out why evolution hasn't eliminated genetically determined homosexuality.
Some traits can be beneficial to a group's survival, if not directly beneficial to an individual's survival. The improved group survival then affects an individual's survival.

A certain division of labor is helpful to a group. A group which includes very active, physical people, and also more intellectual, problem-solving people, some who worry and scout for danger, and some who are bold and exploratory, will be able to handle a changing environment better than a group made up of only one personality type.

If the ratio of male to female in a group changes greatly, homosexuality may provide a means for some in the group to enjoy the survival benefits of pair bonding, until a more favorable sex ratio returns.

I think it's safe to assume that Nature largely favors groups made up of heterosexuals, with a percentage of that population more or less strongly bisexual. Given that any trait within a population is typically expressed as some form of a normal distribution, we would predict a small percentage of homosexual individuals within Nature's favored group.