Did Jesus know there would be cars, jets, computers, plasma tv's......?

[Iamme]

Good question, eh?

The world was created...man was naked and ate food he found..later hunted and cultivated. There wasn't a dentist...at least not up to the standards of todays. And there wasn't glasses back then to enable people to see properly. There were no x-rays to catch the early signs of disease. No assburns. Etc.

Did Jesus know all this would come, or would be 'allowed' in due time? How could Jesus enjoy walking to Damascus if he knew he could be doing it in an air condioned car?

Why would God hold back on these things? Weren't the people from ages past sort of gyped? Why woud God have set it up that only man would have to learn how to make and do all the more modern things only through the addition of more people and time? Didn't God have the power to start off the creation as being fully modern? Is all this a game so that God can see what man does with the resources? Is such a line of questioning once again trying to make out God to be too much like us...like a man, rather as some force that created some basic print with variables, for man to follow, and a lot of the final outcome of everything depends on what man does with that which is provided? Could it be that the reason for the expansive universe is that there are other such planets as ours that would automatically develop people and those people have similar choices to make with that which THEY have and it sort of is like this universal game to see what civilization of aliens goes the farthest the fastest?

Is the fact that more and more complexity came along from time, that this sort of substantiates evolution?

Does this mean that God is not as powerful as we credit him for and man was needed to fulfill certain things for God? That God provided the basics, and man did the rest?

Could this show that God NEEDS man? That man is not just some part of the creation for no reason, but the reason for man is so that man could finish off the full creation process faster? Could this explain that only through man, can God himself be more complete? For example, God could be energy, and can't really talk. But by creating all the things necessary for vocal cords to form, God created for himself a voice to be heard. Or in the case of eyes, for God to witness that to which he had designed, but had no way of seeing for himself, until man came along?

..................................................

This post sort of shows the things I lay in bed thinking about...wrestling with, to try to make sense out of the whole thing, because you look at it from one way, it sounds crazy. You look at it from some other perspective, and it TO seems crazy. It's crazy to believe it all just hapened. Yet, it seems crazy to believe there is this big guy in the sky who looks out for us and had us in his mind, yet let's ministers get electocuted, and 911 to happen, and tsunamis. It sounds crazy that Jesus would have known ther'd be air conditioned cars, but just 'played to the crowd' in the time he decided to visit the earth. It's crazy no matter how I look at it.

I wonder what I'll be thinking about tonight?

[Manny]

He definitely knew about cars. In fact, he carpooled and drove an economy car, which would lend credence to him being a liberal in that other thread. "The apostles were in one Accord." Acts 5:12

[Lisa Simpson]

Good question, eh?:notm




I wonder what I'll be thinking about tonight?

:words:

[El_Spectre]

Yeah, he did. Anti-lock brakes took him very much by surprise, tho.

Just to add something worth reading to the thread, here's the full oldie-but-goodie:
--------

Most people assume WWJD is for "What would Jesus do?". But the initials really have been changed to stand for "What would Jesus drive?".

One theory is that Jesus would tool around in an old Plymouth because the Bible says, "God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in a Fury".

But in Psalm 83, the Almighty clearly owns a Pontiac and a Geo. The passage urges the Jesus to "pursue your enemies with your Tempest and terrify them with your Storm".

Perhaps God favors Dodge pickup trucks, because Moses' followers are warned not to go up a mountain "until the Ram's horn sounds a long blast".

Some scholars insist that Jesus drove a Honda but didn't like to talk about it. As proof, they cite a verse in St. John's gospel where Christ tells the crowd, "For I did not speak of my own Accord..."

Meanwhile, Moses rode an old British motorcycle, as evidenced by a Bible passage declaring that "the roar of Moses' Triumph is heard in the hills".

Joshua drove a Triumph sports car with a hole in its muffler: "Joshua's Triumph was heard throughout the land". And, following Jesus' lead, the Apostles car pooled in a Honda... "The Apostles were in one Accord."

[Ducky]

More evidence Iamme is a twat.

Did Jesus know that?

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Why would God hold back on these things? Weren't the people from ages past sort of gyped? Why woud God have set it up that only man would have to learn how to make and do all the more modern things only through the addition of more people and time?


God works in mysterious ways.

Well, this is the answer most of the religious types fall back on when the questions get too hard and they are too lazy to think for themselves.

[SezMe]

Think about answering my question (http://forums.randi.org/showthread.php?t=46955).

Or if you insist about thinking about god, think about how tiny and insignificant the earth is in the observable universe and why your god would use homo sapiens to fill his needs. Maybe he is using cockroaches to fill his needs since there are a lot more of them on this planet than humans.

Or go to the bookstore and get "Critical Thinking for Dummies" and read yourself to sleep.

[Lisa Simpson]

Kitty picture!!!!

http://img220.imageshack.us/img220/5986/banzaixmas5qw.jpg

[AnotherSillyAlias]

I think there are way too many pictures of cats in the world. It's disproportionate, I mean, how many pictures of Aardvaarks do you see?

[Robin]

Good question, eh?

All I want to know is that if God could tell us the Number of the Beast then why couldn't he give us his e-mail address too?

[RandFan]

Good question, eh? Riiiiight. Good question.

3 pounds beef chuck tender
2 tablespoons onion powder
2 tablespoons paprika
1 1/2 teaspoons cayenne pepper
2 cubes beef bouillon
1/2 cup canned beef broth
3 ounces tomato sauce
1 tablespoon juice from cooked jalapeno (see note)
1 quart water
6 1/2 tablespoons chili powder
1 tablespoon cumin
1 1/2 teaspoons garlic powder
1/2 teaspoon white pepper
3/8 teaspoon salt

Cut meat in cubes, brown in a large, heavy dutch oven. Add
onion powder, paprika, cayenne, bouillon, beef broth, tomato
sauce, jalapeno juice and water.

Cook over low heat for about 2 hours, adding more water as
needed, until meat is tender.

Add chili powder, cumin, garlic powder and pepper, cook for
20 to 30 minutes more. Add salt just before serving.

Makes 6 servings.

note: To make jalapeno juice, chop pepper coarsely and boil in
small amount of water, reduce slightly, then strain out pepper
and seeds.

[UrsulaV]

Did Zeus know we'd have pennicilin? Did Tiamat forsee the chicken McNugget? As he plunged upward from the depths of the primal waters, the dirt to form the world clutched in his soggy paw, did Muskrat's anoxia give him terrible visions of the future careers of Frank Sinatra and the Artist Formerly Known As Prince? Was the sleep of the infant Ganesh troubled by the knowledge that someday, cable TV would run lengthy ads for a miracle product named Urine-B-Gone?

[Terry]

I think there are way too many pictures of cats in the world. It's disproportionate, I mean, how many pictures of Aardvaarks do you see?

About 30,000 if you go to google.

--Terry.

[Ceritus]

Isn't everything relative anyways? Regardless of all the suffering, all the wars, all the diseases and all the religious dogma of old. Aren't we still kind of pissed off? As a human race? If I were born a couple hundred years ago would I regret not having a computer or driving a car if I had never known them to exist? Would I still have the moments of joy I experience in my life when I witness something amazing we or I have accomplished?

Would my days be filled with plowing a field or slaughtering a cow instead of looking at forecast models and raw data and coming up with a forecast of my own in an office? Would I hunt for my food with a rifle or a bow and have to carry it back to my family instead of running 3-5miles every other day and then going to Wal-Mart to buy some food? Would those extra 30-40 years or more really matter to me if everyone else lived 30-40 years less than we do now?

Would I be distracted by my children or my wife instead of a computer game or a television program? Would I enjoy them just as much? Regardless of what genetic tendencies a baby may have isn’t this child innocent until the world influences it?
Would I suffer from the need to want more money if there was nothing worthwhile to buy and I have my own crops to feed my own? Would I be just as worried about where my next meal would come if the harvest was poor as I would when the debt collectors come knocking and I have blown my last paycheck gambling?

Of course I realize I have already experienced such pleasantries and there is no going back. But I don’t regret not being able to take a quick hop to mars and back for vacation. I also don’t fear I may not be able to get a good job because of some blood sampling genetic tendencies. I don’t fear becoming 150-years old and thinking I haven’t done anything with my life worthwhile. I doubt I will ever have to feel the pain of burying a great, great, great, great grand kid. There is so much we have not experienced and have experienced that also define who we are. I love being alive and I love knowing I have one shot at this life so I better enjoy it the best I can.

[Iacchus]

Could it be that the reason for the expansive universe is that there are other such planets as ours that would automatically develop people and those people have similar choices to make with that which THEY have and it sort of is like this universal game to see what civilization of aliens goes the farthest the fastest?What, the whole thing is an experiment? Yes, I have heard of it put in such terms before.

Could this show that God NEEDS man? That man is not just some part of the creation for no reason, but the reason for man is so that man could finish off the full creation process faster? Whether this is true or not, I do believe that everything is an expression of God. For example, let's say God is pure love, how else could that love be defined, except through a creation that He could express it to? So maybe you are correct, that God completes Himself through His creation ... albeit I am not sure it would necessarily require man in order for Him to do so. He could have chosen someone or something else in other words.

[Iacchus]

And just to illustrate the fact God may be more The Lover ...

2 And I John saw the holy city, new Jerusalem, coming down from God out of heaven, prepared as a bride adorned for her husband. ~ Revelation 21:2 (http://bible.gospelcom.net/passage/?book_id=73&chapter=21&version=9)

[Jesus]

I think there are way too many pictures of cats in the world. It's disproportionate, I mean, how many pictures of Aardvaarks do you see?True, but I've never seen such as beautiful a picture of an aardvaark like this:
http://www.bonsaikitten.com/pawsbw.jpg

[HeyLeroy]

Two thousand years ago an itinerant day-labourer got his sorry @ss executed for disturbing the peace in a country that no longer exists, and you're expecting us to believe that he's the saviour of humankind?

[tkingdoll]

I think there are way too many pictures of cats in the world. It's disproportionate, I mean, how many pictures of Aardvaarks do you see?

Isn't it llikely to be proportionate to the actual numbers of cats in the world versus aardvarks? I would say that around 35% of my friends own a cat. Exactly 0% own an aardvark. I would expect most, if not all, of the 35% to have pictures of their cats. If I had any aardvark-owning friends then presumably they too would get camera happy, but aardvarks do not make good pets on account of their gambling habits and kleptomania.

[UrsulaV]

Isn't it llikely to be proportionate to the actual numbers of cats in the world versus aardvarks? I would say that around 35% of my friends own a cat. Exactly 0% own an aardvark. I would expect most, if not all, of the 35% to have pictures of their cats. If I had any aardvark-owning friends then presumably they too would get camera happy, but aardvarks do not make good pets on account of their gambling habits and kleptomania.

And if we start talking abou aardvarks, sooner or later Cerebus the barbarian will come up, and then David Sim, and I think we already have enough lunacy in these threads...

[HeyLeroy]

WWJDFAKB (http://www.tshirthell.com/store/product.php?productid=64)

Couldn't resist.

[Iamme]

Yeah, he did. Anti-lock brakes took him very much by surprise, tho.

Just to add something worth reading to the thread, here's the full oldie-but-goodie:
--------

Most people assume WWJD is for "What would Jesus do?". But the initials really have been changed to stand for "What would Jesus drive?".

One theory is that Jesus would tool around in an old Plymouth because the Bible says, "God drove Adam and Eve out of the Garden of Eden in a Fury".

But in Psalm 83, the Almighty clearly owns a Pontiac and a Geo. The passage urges the Jesus to "pursue your enemies with your Tempest and terrify them with your Storm".

Perhaps God favors Dodge pickup trucks, because Moses' followers are warned not to go up a mountain "until the Ram's horn sounds a long blast".

Some scholars insist that Jesus drove a Honda but didn't like to talk about it. As proof, they cite a verse in St. John's gospel where Christ tells the crowd, "For I did not speak of my own Accord..."

Meanwhile, Moses rode an old British motorcycle, as evidenced by a Bible passage declaring that "the roar of Moses' Triumph is heard in the hills".

Joshua drove a Triumph sports car with a hole in its muffler: "Joshua's Triumph was heard throughout the land". And, following Jesus' lead, the Apostles car pooled in a Honda... "The Apostles were in one Accord."

I enjoyed this.

[Iamme]

Isn't everything relative anyways? Regardless of all the suffering, all the wars, all the diseases and all the religious dogma of old. Aren't we still kind of pissed off? As a human race? If I were born a couple hundred years ago would I regret not having a computer or driving a car if I had never known them to exist? Would I still have the moments of joy I experience in my life when I witness something amazing we or I have accomplished?

Would my days be filled with plowing a field or slaughtering a cow instead of looking at forecast models and raw data and coming up with a forecast of my own in an office? Would I hunt for my food with a rifle or a bow and have to carry it back to my family instead of running 3-5miles every other day and then going to Wal-Mart to buy some food? Would those extra 30-40 years or more really matter to me if everyone else lived 30-40 years less than we do now?

Would I be distracted by my children or my wife instead of a computer game or a television program? Would I enjoy them just as much? Regardless of what genetic tendencies a baby may have isn’t this child innocent until the world influences it?
Would I suffer from the need to want more money if there was nothing worthwhile to buy and I have my own crops to feed my own? Would I be just as worried about where my next meal would come if the harvest was poor as I would when the debt collectors come knocking and I have blown my last paycheck gambling?

Of course I realize I have already experienced such pleasantries and there is no going back. But I don’t regret not being able to take a quick hop to mars and back for vacation. I also don’t fear I may not be able to get a good job because of some blood sampling genetic tendencies. I don’t fear becoming 150-years old and thinking I haven’t done anything with my life worthwhile. I doubt I will ever have to feel the pain of burying a great, great, great, great grand kid. There is so much we have not experienced and have experienced that also define who we are. I love being alive and I love knowing I have one shot at this life so I better enjoy it the best I can.

This sounds like one of those things you could turn into class and get an "A' on. Very good.

[Atlas]

... I would say that around 35% of my friends own a cat. Exactly 0% own an aardvark. ...As much as the persuasive statistic this pretends to be, I was thinking of it as a public admission of a personal predjudice.

You got something against aardvark owners you want to tell us about, tkingdoll?

Or maybe it's not them - maybe it's you! Maybe you give off some kind of vibe that aarvark owners find repulsive. I don't know.

I don't happen to own an aardvark myself, but if I did, I can imagine that perhaps I'd be offended by your bragging on the fact that you are not frindly toward aardvark owners. Again, I don't know.

I'm just sayin'. :D

[AnotherSillyAlias]

Isn't it llikely to be proportionate to the actual numbers of cats in the world versus aardvarks? I would say that around 35% of my friends own a cat. Exactly 0% own an aardvark. I would expect most, if not all, of the 35% to have pictures of their cats. If I had any aardvark-owning friends then presumably they too would get camera happy, but aardvarks do not make good pets on account of their gambling habits and kleptomania.

I have sent your scurrilous comments to the Secret Coven of Aardvaark Appreciators.

They will be dropping in to have a "chat" with you sometime soon!

[bluess]

Riiiiight. Good question.

3 pounds beef chuck tender
2 tablespoons onion powder
2 tablespoons paprika
1 1/2 teaspoons cayenne pepper
2 cubes beef bouillon
1/2 cup canned beef broth
3 ounces tomato sauce
1 tablespoon juice from cooked jalapeno (see note)
1 quart water
6 1/2 tablespoons chili powder
1 tablespoon cumin
1 1/2 teaspoons garlic powder
1/2 teaspoon white pepper
3/8 teaspoon salt

Cut meat in cubes, brown in a large, heavy dutch oven. Add
onion powder, paprika, cayenne, bouillon, beef broth, tomato
sauce, jalapeno juice and water.

Cook over low heat for about 2 hours, adding more water as
needed, until meat is tender.

Add chili powder, cumin, garlic powder and pepper, cook for
20 to 30 minutes more. Add salt just before serving.

Makes 6 servings.

note: To make jalapeno juice, chop pepper coarsely and boil in
small amount of water, reduce slightly, then strain out pepper
and seeds.

Hey, if you're going to post yummy recipes, give 'em a name.

[bruto]

Good question, eh?

The world was created...man was naked and ate food he found..later hunted and cultivated. There wasn't a dentist...at least not up to the standards of todays. And there wasn't glasses back then to enable people to see properly. There were no x-rays to catch the early signs of disease. No assburns. Etc.

Did Jesus know all this would come, or would be 'allowed' in due time? How could Jesus enjoy walking to Damascus if he knew he could be doing it in an air condioned car?

Why would God hold back on these things? Weren't the people from ages past sort of gyped? Why woud God have set it up that only man would have to learn how to make and do all the more modern things only through the addition of more people and time? Didn't God have the power to start off the creation as being fully modern? Is all this a game so that God can see what man does with the resources? Is such a line of questioning once again trying to make out God to be too much like us...like a man, rather as some force that created some basic print with variables, for man to follow, and a lot of the final outcome of everything depends on what man does with that which is provided? Could it be that the reason for the expansive universe is that there are other such planets as ours that would automatically develop people and those people have similar choices to make with that which THEY have and it sort of is like this universal game to see what civilization of aliens goes the farthest the fastest?

Is the fact that more and more complexity came along from time, that this sort of substantiates evolution?

Does this mean that God is not as powerful as we credit him for and man was needed to fulfill certain things for God? That God provided the basics, and man did the rest?

Could this show that God NEEDS man? That man is not just some part of the creation for no reason, but the reason for man is so that man could finish off the full creation process faster? Could this explain that only through man, can God himself be more complete? For example, God could be energy, and can't really talk. But by creating all the things necessary for vocal cords to form, God created for himself a voice to be heard. Or in the case of eyes, for God to witness that to which he had designed, but had no way of seeing for himself, until man came along?

..................................................

This post sort of shows the things I lay in bed thinking about...wrestling with, to try to make sense out of the whole thing, because you look at it from one way, it sounds crazy. You look at it from some other perspective, and it TO seems crazy. It's crazy to believe it all just hapened. Yet, it seems crazy to believe there is this big guy in the sky who looks out for us and had us in his mind, yet let's ministers get electocuted, and 911 to happen, and tsunamis. It sounds crazy that Jesus would have known ther'd be air conditioned cars, but just 'played to the crowd' in the time he decided to visit the earth. It's crazy no matter how I look at it.

You're not the first person to think of this sort of idea. After all, if God is the God that's usually meant when we say the word, it's hard to figure out how the idea of experience, novelty, change, etc. could be compatible with a God alone in...in...well, in whatever state God is supposed to have been in before there was a universe to be in. If God is going to experience anything other than a huge, god-sized daydream, he needs a universe to do it in. I would say man is optional, but at the very least God needs space. When Newton said "Space is the sensorium of God," he may have been thinking along those lines.

As to why god made us wait for all the goodies, it seems obvious enough. Those aren't god's creations. They're ours. If god just sort of set us up from the start with all that stuff, it would be a dollhouse not a world. And it would be pretty dull, because if it were actually complete, with no further room for improvement, we'd have nothing to do. If we did continue to modify it, then it wouldn't be complete, we'd undo the definition, and the situation would be essentially as it has always been. We change our world as we go along. the whole universe changes. If it didn't it would just be a model of a universe.

The usual Christian take on Jesus was that divine though he was, he was a man, and a man of his time. There's no reason he would or should have known the future, at least in technical detail.

I wonder what I'll be thinking about tonight?

I shudder to think.

[cajela]

http://www.african-safari-journals.com/image-files/aardvark-picture.jpg
Cute, but cats are cuter.

[Beerina]

Yeah, he did. Anti-lock brakes took him very much by surprise, tho.


Wouldn't it be funny if Jesus was just a normal man, and some guy went back in time and gave him a 25 cent porno booth, then filmed him and what he did with it, then went back into the future and broadcast it on Galactic Box Office cable uncensored cable channel, and people laughed?

I have friends who refuse to stand too close lest they get hit by a lightning bolt.

[c4ts]

Wouldn't it be funny if Jesus was just a normal man, and some guy went back in time and gave him a 25 cent porno booth, then filmed him and what he did with it, then went back into the future and broadcast it on Galactic Box Office cable uncensored cable channel, and people laughed?

Or if you took Jesus forward in time, he would have difficulty understanding Christianity, not recognize himself in any of it, and probably be excommunicated several times for radical opposition to authority. He wasn't a fan of the Jewish sects arguing with each other, so I'm sure all the different forms of Christianity would drive him absolutely mad. The different Jewish sects wouldn't please him either, and he might focus on them, and just ignore the Christians altogether. Islam would seem just as strange to him, and he'd probably ignore that too. Then there's the fact that he would look like something that crawled out of an Al Qaeda cave, which would put him under a lot of suspicion, and his record of getting kicked out of town all the time wouldn't be good for him either. If someone like that went around telling everybody he was the son of God, there would be serious concern he might bomb someone.

Oh, the profound irony. Jesus is behind bars, and a Baptist hands him a Chick Tract, asking Jesus to ask Jesus for forgiveness.

Or perhaps it would be more like The Grand Inquisitor...

[Beerina]

Personally, I suspect he was similar to a modern day TV preacher -- and would behave accordingly. It might take him a few days to become acquainted with all the updates to the charlatanistic methods of "healing" people, but he wouldn't break a sweat.

[Belz...]

Good question, eh?

How old are you, anyway ?

[bruto]

Personally, I suspect he was similar to a modern day TV preacher -- and would behave accordingly. It might take him a few days to become acquainted with all the updates to the charlatanistic methods of "healing" people, but he wouldn't break a sweat.

I don't know. For one thing, he doesn't seem to have made himself rich, and for another he certainly didn't ingratiate himself with the ruling political system, so I hold out for the possibility that he had integrity, which would be a virtually automatic disqualification for modern TV preacher success. Thrown out of divinity school for being such a wise-ass, he sets up a storefront church in some seedy town, but loses his congregation because he demands too much of them and doesn't let them feel superior to everyone else for their trouble; he ends up right where he was before, hanging out, passing the bottle with harlots and outcasts. One of those guys who is always giving away his shoes. We don't crucify much any more, so he lives long enough to be one of those guys you dread to meet on the street, smelling of stale wine and sweat, collaring passersby and haranguing them with incoherent but disturbingly elegant rants.